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sm0kin
08-25-2008, 11:21 AM
why can't you use ac voltage for electrolysis? why does it have to be converted to dc?

dennis13030
08-25-2008, 11:32 AM
Ac is ok to use. Most everyone here wants to use the HHO is a vehicle so they go with a 12V DC power source.

Bob Boyce used an inverter(12VDC to 120VAC) in his vehicle with good results.

sm0kin
08-25-2008, 08:48 PM
ok so do you think it would work if i wired in a dimmer switch(electronic) to my cell and just plugged it in?

dennis13030
08-26-2008, 11:11 PM
ok so do you think it would work if i wired in a dimmer switch(electronic) to my cell and just plugged it in?

I've seen a 9V battery used for a power source. I've seen 120VAC used for a power source. They all work. Its just a matter of how well.

The applied voltage, the current draw, the operating temperature and the gas production define the "Operating Point" of an electrolyzer. One of the common goals when designing an electrolyzer is making it energy efficient.

The recommended plate-to-plate voltage is about 1.5V to 2.5V AC or DC.

So lets say that you want the plate-to-plate voltage to be 2.0V but your source of power is 6V. To do this you would have to setup your anode, cathode and neutral plates like this.

+NN-

-----------------------------------------------------------------

So lets say that you want the plate-to-plate voltage to be 2.0V but your source of power is 12V. To do this you would have to setup your anode, cathode and neutral plates like this.

+NNNNN-

So the number of neutral plates depends on the source voltage and what you want the plate-to-plate voltage to be.

sm0kin
08-26-2008, 11:39 PM
ok so basically if i wanted to use 120vac i would need some 61 plates +N(x59)-

or for actual purposes i could do +NNNNN- +NNNNN- +NNNNN- +NNNNN- +NNNNN- +NNNNN- +NNNNN- +NNNNN- +NNNNN- +NNNNN- +NNNNN- +NNNNN-
and so on and wire them in series.
in the above example there are 5 neutrals and the +&-
you divide your voltage by 6 because 5 Ns and 1 additional for the +-

overtaker
08-27-2008, 06:37 PM
The ac has to be converted back to dc before connecting to the booster. :eek:

sm0kin
08-27-2008, 11:20 PM
ok. so why convert it back? What happens if you feed it ac?

overtaker
08-28-2008, 10:12 AM
Have you ever taken a bath with a hairdryer? I think some convert to ac to increase volts and then switch back to dc. at that higher voltage. Please don't ever try with ac or we will all be thinking big oil sent someone to visit you! :D

sm0kin
08-28-2008, 11:57 AM
ok so basically 2 many volts and it'll arc across and zapp.

Johnh
08-28-2008, 01:01 PM
It isnt only the question of to many volts (which is actually safe enough in a properly designed cell ) AC at 50 or 60 Hz does not produce much if any gas because the electrolysis reaction is reversible and as such the hydrogen and oxygen on the plates recombine to water when the polarity changes and our common frequency is just about the right rate to completely cancel out the reaction.
As I understand it Bob Boyce did not use AC but 110 volt DC will check it out when time and repost here if I am wrong
John.
Just on the voltage thing If you want to use these voltages why not use a plasma generator?
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i20/johnh_charts/JHCFR5.jpg
John

Johnh
09-01-2008, 11:32 AM
As I understand it Bob Boyce did not use AC but 110 volt DC will check it out when time and repost here if I am wrong
John.


Quote from a post by Bob Boyce

I then experimented using a 300 watt pseudo-sine wave inverter that had been modified so the base frequency could be adjusted between 700 and 800 hz. The stepped sine wave output was fed through a bridge rectifier which turned each stepped sine wave into two positive stepped half waves.

This was in regard to his final design, Bridge rectifier = DC current
John

dennis13030
09-01-2008, 07:09 PM
Alternating Current(AC) does not necessarily mean current that changes direction. AC just refers to current that is changing it's value over time.

I.e. An AC source goes from +60V to -60V and continues to travel between these two values. It is AC and it is changing directions. Now our AC source goes from +60V to +30V and continues to travel between these two values. It is AC but it is NOT changing directions. This second example is sometimes called pulsing DC.

Rectified AC is still AC but now it no longer changes direction.

I also do not believe that applying AC to an electrolyzer will cause ANY recombination of Hydrogen & Oxygen back to water(there is no theory that supports this).

Q-Hack!
09-01-2008, 10:57 PM
I believe that if you use the +60 and -60 idea, then all you are doing is changing which plate is your anode/cathode repeatedly. What you end up with is a plate creating Hydrogen for 1/60 of a second and then Oxygen for the next 1/60 of a second. This would bounce back and forth 60 times every second (or 50 for those in Europe).

The recombining of HHO into water requires an ignition source and would be very violent. I don't see that happening by just using AC.

countryboy18
09-07-2008, 04:39 PM
so what is the dission. if i go out to my shop and plug in a power cord and wire it to 2 plates + - what will happen normal water nothing else. i can start it like 4 inches away and move it 1/2 inch at a time till what. hopefull HHO or the breaker will pop. WHAT WILL HAPPEN i dont want to kill my self. i think i will get amazing results with alot of heat do to just using 2 plates.

Q-Hack!
09-07-2008, 05:15 PM
Since you only need 1.69V on a +- configuration to produce HHO, using NaOH, everything above that will generate heat. So yes, you will probably get good results until the generator melts through your work bench. :D

countryboy18
09-07-2008, 05:21 PM
but it should not spark and explode? right!

ridelong
09-07-2008, 05:53 PM
A few months ago someone asked if reversing the polarity of the power would increase generation of hho. Thoery was, the reveersing would knock the bubbles off the plates.

I set up a test at 12 volts with a relay to reverse the voltage about 90 times a minute.

The generation was dismal. Less than half the generation of straight DC.

Not sure why, just did the experiment and reported the results.

Q-Hack!
09-07-2008, 05:59 PM
but it should not spark and explode? right!

I suspect the worse that can happen is you trip the circuit breaker.

John79
09-12-2008, 07:11 PM
AC is alternating current it is no good for producing hho. I tried using a transformer at 24v ac 40amps. It barely bubbled at all but with only 12v dc the cell will bubble like crazy.

hydrotinkerer
09-12-2008, 07:37 PM
I suspect the worse that can happen is you trip the circuit breaker.

Thats trip the circuit breaker after the bright flash!

countryboy18
09-12-2008, 07:59 PM
well i did not trip the breaker and there was no big bang or flash. like someone said it make the water get hot and there was some production. with just tap water.

hydrotinkerer
09-12-2008, 09:06 PM
well i did not trip the breaker and there was no big bang or flash. like someone said it make the water get hot and there was some production. with just tap water.

I thought it would jump the small plate gap and short out. Well I was proven wrong.:o How long did it take to heat the water?

sm0kin
09-12-2008, 09:20 PM
what setup did you use?

countryboy18
09-12-2008, 10:14 PM
the bottom part of the water was the hotest that were the cell was. i was using copper wire wraped around a ss tube. around 6" tall. i just pulsed the power and then i felt the water and it was hot so i stoped the test. just tap water nothing else