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Westcoastrocks
09-03-2008, 07:05 PM
Hey guys I was wondering if you could help me out. I just got this truck for my work and I am not to sure as to where the best place to put the HHO on my air intake. I don't know much about mechanics. It looks like the Turbo is sitting on/near the air filter. So I would assume that after that would be fine. But before it goes into the engine there is another attachment, I have no idea what it is. Take a look at the pictures and let me know what you think.. Thanks

hydropower KY
09-03-2008, 07:12 PM
Is the truck a California model? If so it might be some emissions crap. I am assuming the truck is not intercooled.The best place I have found to put the hose barb is about an inch back from the attachment point of the rubber duct that goes to turbo.On the airbox side

Westcoastrocks
09-03-2008, 08:35 PM
I am even more confused

hydrotinkerer
09-03-2008, 11:55 PM
Those orange hoses are silicone hoses, Expensive. I would not mess with those. I put my hose in my diesel on the air box, where the air filter is. Clean or dirty side it doesn't matter. The air box is much easier to mess with.

liberybell
09-04-2008, 12:42 PM
I have mine on the air intake about 3" from the turbo but after the filter.
I was wondering if HHO would be more efficient if we plug it directly into the intake (after the turbo and right on top of the engine, drill a hole in the actual intake, barb it and attach a temperature-resistant hose to it.)
Has anybody tried this?
I am aware of the danger since we are pumping the HHO straight into the intake and we must be careful most of all with diesel with intake heaters, but I am still wondering if the efficiency would be worth the risk.

hydrotinkerer
09-04-2008, 12:57 PM
I have mine on the air intake about 3" from the turbo but after the filter.
I was wondering if HHO would be more efficient if we plug it directly into the intake (after the turbo and right on top of the engine, drill a hole in the actual intake, barb it and attach a temperature-resistant hose to it.)
Has anybody tried this?
I am aware of the danger since we are pumping the HHO straight into the intake and we must be careful most of all with diesel with intake heaters, but I am still wondering if the efficiency would be worth the risk.

HHo gens can't overcome turbo boost pressure. Pre or post air filter is the only way, Unless you build high pressure HHO gen. I don't know of anyone wanting a bomb riding around with them.

liberybell
09-04-2008, 01:07 PM
HHo gens can't overcome turbo boost pressure. Pre or post air filter is the only way, Unless you build high pressure HHO gen. I don't know of anyone wanting a bomb riding around with them.
Sorry I don't understand what you mean. Are you saying that the turbo would create pressure on the generator or babbler? Meaning it would push exhaust emissions into the generator?
If that is the case I'll keep it where is at. Last think I want to do is deal with pressure :eek:
What about the better efficiency claims I have read on this forum?

hydrotinkerer
09-04-2008, 01:21 PM
When the turbo spools up it creats "+" pressure on the intake. HHO gens were not designed to create large amounts of pressure. HHO gen might create 1-2psi at most on free flowing system. Turbo boost pressure might run up to 30psi. How does your 1psi gen overcome 30psi? Hooked up to the manifold(post turbo) the turbo pressure would flow into the gen.

liberybell
09-04-2008, 04:34 PM
When the turbo spools up it creats "+" pressure on the intake. HHO gens were not designed to create large amounts of pressure. HHO gen might create 1-2psi at most on free flowing system. Turbo boost pressure might run up to 30psi. How does your 1psi gen overcome 30psi? Hooked up to the manifold(post turbo) the turbo pressure would flow into the gen.
Very good point.
Did not know how the turbo actually works. I did not know that it creates that much pressure.
Thanks for the info

Westcoastrocks
09-05-2008, 08:34 PM
I was also wondering if you can use a Efie with diesels. I would venture to say no because HHO is more like gas then it is diesel. i would think that while HHo would help diesel in a efficient way, HHO could not replace diesel just because of the way diesels are made. What do you guys think?

hydrotinkerer
09-05-2008, 09:03 PM
As far as I know you don't need an efie on diesels. Mine doesn't but it's a cummins.

Carolinablue
09-06-2008, 10:39 AM
As far as I know you don't need an efie on diesels. Mine doesn't but it's a cummins.

What model is your cummins and what kind of improvement on mileage do you get?
My concern is hho in the intake while the grid heater is working. Is this not a problem of explosion when the grid heater come on? I have a 2001 Dodge Cummins and toying with the idea of putting a generator on it.

hydrotinkerer
09-06-2008, 03:22 PM
98 12 valve turbo diesel
my cell puts out .7 lpm at 13amp
19mpg base went to 23mpg with cell on

My cell is on a master switch, so for winter when I need the heater I'll just leave switch off till heaters turns off. Then I will turn cell on.

Westcoastrocks
09-06-2008, 04:52 PM
As far as I know you don't need an efie on diesels. Mine doesn't but it's a cummins.

I know you don't need something that screws with the O2 sensor. But I am talking about a Efie that replaces diesel for HHO the same way it does gas for HHO. Basically leaning out the diesel. To me It doesn't sound like its smart to do with a diesel but prove me wrong.....

hydropower KY
09-06-2008, 05:01 PM
Diesels don't have o2 sensors so you won't be able to use the efie.Diesels also require a lubricant,something the hho does not have.You would still have to use the diesel fuel.

Westcoastrocks
09-06-2008, 09:28 PM
Diesels don't have o2 sensors so you won't be able to use the efie.Diesels also require a lubricant,something the hho does not have.You would still have to use the diesel fuel.

*Facepalm* yes I know diesels don't have O2 sensors. Never mind lol

stroker
09-16-2008, 08:01 PM
If I can make this my first post, I hope it will be a post that will inform members here about diesels.

Diesels are my life. I have been involved in the diesel community for over 10 years.


hydropower KY
Diesels don't have o2 sensors so you won't be able to use the efie.Diesels also require a lubricant,something the hho does not have.You would still have to use the diesel fuel.
The lubrication diesels require is from the fuel to lubricate the fuel system. It will lube the lift pump, fuel pump, injection pump, and the injectors.

To the OP....
I am building an HHO system for my truck that is a 1996 Powerstroke like yours. but there is an issue that I need to work around and there is only 1 way to do it. My truck is a late 96 model and that was the first of the California models. The only real difference in this truck I have are the AB code split shot injectors. These injectors have a small pilot injection to promote a more complete combustion before the main injection.

The way I see it, this small pilot injection will consume the HHO or most of it before the main injection. Will this negate the results of using HHO? I am not sure. But I do have plans on removing my injectors and installing hybrid single shots in the near future.

On edit---
I forgot to tell you just remove the air filter gauge and install the hose from the HHO there. You dont need that gauge on the airbox.

hydrotinkerer
09-16-2008, 08:09 PM
I've heard it both ways, That 1lpm or above they got results or they didn't. I would build, buy a cell that puts out that much or more and try it. Mine doesn't have the pilot injection.

DieselBurps
10-10-2008, 09:44 PM
I know you don't need something that screws with the O2 sensor. But I am talking about a Efie that replaces diesel for HHO the same way it does gas for HHO. Basically leaning out the diesel. To me It doesn't sound like its smart to do with a diesel but prove me wrong.....
To out a diesel, you just back off the go pedal. There is no throttle plate on most diesels - they are allowed to suck in all of the air they can. Engine speed and power is controlled by the amount of fuel injected. I would guess that a good HHO setup on a mechanical diesel will result in a slightly higher idle.

Glow plugs and intake heater grids may not mix well with HHO - it seems like it might be a good idea to leave the HHO off until after the vehicle is warmed up. Given that you do, it seems that HHO would be ideal for use with a diesel - it would be a much simpler setup on a much more efficient engine.

Clipper
10-18-2008, 02:43 AM
These injectors have a small pilot injection to promote a more complete combustion before the main injection.

The way I see it, this small pilot injection will consume the HHO or most of it before the main injection. Will this negate the results of using HHO? I am not sure. But I do have plans on removing my injectors and installing hybrid single shots in the near future.


Hey, Stroker,

Unfortunately, it is worse than that.

Diesels ignite the fuel by compression. Ignition starts at about 12:1.
(some boat diesels, Universals for example, actually are designed at 14:1.)

The Powerstrokes and Dodge Cummins run about 18:1, and that's without turbocharging. My Chevy runs 21.5:1.

Since the hydrogen IS a fuel, it is actually igniting sometime during the compression stroke, while the piston is still on its' way up. This is actually preignition. And since the hydrogen burns so fast, my guess is that by the time the main fuel injection event occurs, the hydrogen is all burned already...you ARE, at least, injecting the fuel into a much hotter atmosphere than just pure compression. But you are NOT burning the hydrogen at the same time as the main fuel charge.

My guess is that this is why diesels do not seem to get as much improvement as gassers. Subjectively, it seems like the diesel pickup trucks that I've read about seem to get maybe 3-4 mpg gain (max) on a baseline of 16-18 mpg or so, a gain of about 20-30%. Gassers seem to be able to consistently achieve 40% to as much as 100% increase.

I have absolutely positively NO evidence of ANY of this...it is pure conjecture, based on my engineering knowledge, and general (and subjective) observations.

Clipper
10-18-2008, 10:55 AM
Here's a little more elaboration:

I looked up the autoignition temperature of Hydrogen, it is 1085 degrees Fahrenheit, or 585 Centigrade, or 858 degrees Kelvin.

http://www1.eere.energy.gov/hydrogenandfuelcells/tech_validation/pdfs/fcm01r0.pdf
(page 26)

http://chemistry.about.com/library/weekly/bltempconvert.htm
(Temperature conversion calculator.)

Now, using the "Diesel Cycle" calculator in the middle of this page:
http://members.aol.com/engware/calc3.htm
Starting with 1 atmosphere of pressure, in other words, no turbocharging,
858 degrees Kelvin is reached at about 14.17:1 of adiabatic compression.

With turbocharging, it is reached even sooner.

resago
10-18-2008, 02:22 PM
have to factor in timing. the fuel in injected before TDC.

QUICK LIGHT
10-25-2008, 11:17 AM
I have a ford 6.0 diesel and haven't seen any increase in fuel millage. But I am still trying.

HHO Cummins
03-25-2012, 01:17 AM
Glow Plugs
These should not have a negative effect and or cause a flash back. From logic: glowplugs don't pre ignite diesel. It takes both compression and the glow plug to have ignition on manifold injection [where fuel is present during compression].
LONG ANSWER: Question: ignition temp for each fuel. [gas: 280*C] diesel: 210*C hydrogen: 585*C
http://www.hse.gov.uk/research/rrpdf/rr615.pdf.
Hydroxy: unknown [probably somewhat lower than hydrogen, but way higher than diesel]. Major problem: "hot spots" These are hydrocarbon deposits
that are "fanned into flame" by the inrush of the "charging" of the cylinder with air/fuel mix during intake cycle. If the spot is above the ignition temp it will ignite the fuel/air charge and cause backfire if the valve is still open, or "pre ignition knock" if during compression cycle. After the engine has been run with hydroxy boost for some time the hydrocarbon is "cleaned" off the walls and piston face and the probability greatly
reduced.

http://www.panaceauniversity.org/Hydroxy%20Boosters.pdf

myoldyourgold
03-25-2012, 12:46 PM
I do not want people to become complacent based on this post. The testing of hydrogen self ignition was done with all parahydrogen. This is not what a good reactor is producing. A very good reactor will produce 75% orthohydrogen and 25% parahydrogen. Hydrogen that is 100% para can be compressed and has higher temperatures for self ignition. With ortho in the mix things change drastically. I have seen ignition take place just by getting the injection of HHO to close to the turbo where it did not have enough time to mix with the incoming air. I think that most normal reactors are not producing 75% ortho but a lot less, but still some is being generated. We strive to produce as much ortho as possible because of its being more powerful. You do not need to make as much gas if it has more ortho in the mix thus giving you a better return for the amount of amps used. The warning is always be safe and if you have quality HHO do not compress it over 12 lbs. Self ignition has been reported at just over 15 lbs. of pressure. There are lots of tests out there showing HHO being compressed over this point and obviously they have the lower energy para and very little ortho in the mix if any. Be on the safe side and always use proper safety procedures and equipment. Flashback arrestors, bubblers, flashpots, and keeping pressure down unless you know for sure what kind of gas you are producing.