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JonDoh
09-04-2008, 10:44 AM
Ok... so... I'm gonna experiment with another set-up but I don't have a flowmeter.... I want to get the most HHO gas using less than 30amps.... I have about 8 plates.....

Which would be the best configuration to get the most HHO?

1) + n n - n n +

2) + n n - - n n +

3) + - + - + - + -

4) + n - n + n -

hydrotinkerer
09-04-2008, 03:32 PM
Ok... so... I'm gonna experiment with another set-up but I don't have a flowmeter.... I want to get the most HHO gas using less than 30amps.... I have about 8 plates.....

Which would be the best configuration to get the most HHO?

1) + n n - n n +

2) + n n - - n n +

3) + - + - + - + -

4) + n - n + n -


Well that all depends on who you ask-everyone has differing opinions. Here goes-

#1 and #2 are the same, #2 extra "-" plate only produces on one side while #1 does so on both.
#3 produces very well, but with alot of heat and amp pull(unless a true series cell)
#4 ? Never tried that one

FuzzyTomCat
09-04-2008, 06:02 PM
Well that all depends on who you ask-everyone has differing opinions. Here goes-

#1 and #2 are the same, #2 extra "-" plate only produces on one side while #1 does so on both.
#3 produces very well, but with alot of heat and amp pull(unless a true series cell)
#4 ? Never tried that one

I tried #1 and #2

#1 produced more heat for some reason on the (-) negitive terminal averaged 10 degrees more.

#2 Is what I use on my unit which produces a minimum 1 LPM 198 sq.in. surface area w/ .0625 plate spacing.

IronBear
09-04-2008, 06:44 PM
From what I have been reading, the closer the plates are the less draw in terms of relative hho production. I have done 1 and 3. The 3 was a definite producer, but I wasnt using good electrolyte. Plate spacing and the concentration of electrolyte will allow you to adjust the cell for the best bang for the buck.

FuzzyTomCat
09-04-2008, 10:42 PM
From what I have been reading, the closer the plates are the less draw in terms of relative hho production. I have done 1 and 3. The 3 was a definite producer, but I wasnt using good electrolyte. Plate spacing and the concentration of electrolyte will allow you to adjust the cell for the best bang for the buck.

Hi IronBear,

The #3 is mostly used for brute force type Oxyhydrogen (HHO) gas generators ( give it as much as it can take )

I use #2 because of the "distilled white vinegar" in the Oxyhydrogen (HHO) gas generator I use. The reason being because of the .0625 plate gap and the Electrolyte being totally ECO friendly ( dump it on you and smell like a pickle and not get your skin burnt off or go blind ).

I always go safety first, to many little kids around "eye" level and curious, couldn't live with a accident hurting anyone for just for some HHO.

Regards,
Fuzzy

JonDoh
09-05-2008, 04:42 AM
SUPER THANKS guys for all the input!!!! Very informative!!

I think I'm gonna go with #2 since a couple of you have tried that & seem to have some success.... I'll use vinegar & water to keep the temp down a bit. My plates aren't completely straight so I'll use two of those .062 washers in between the plates

One of these days I'll quit being a NOOB & get me a flow meter :D

Bossman
09-15-2008, 06:12 AM
Waht about

+nnnnnn--nnnnn+
or
+nnnnn-nnnnn+
Would the second - in the middle help or take away

hydrotinkerer
09-15-2008, 02:49 PM
Waht about

+nnnnnn--nnnnn+
or
+nnnnn-nnnnn+
Would the second - in the middle help or take away


The double neg. in the first one produces on only one side. The single neg. on the second one produces on both sides.

I have been playing with two cells with:
1- +nn-nn+
2- +nn--nn+

The only difference I have noticed is a slight temp difference. #2 being a little lower. I used same electrolite measurements in both. I mixed up the electrolite in one container and split it between the two cells.

JonDoh
09-15-2008, 09:54 PM
Waht about

+nnnnnn--nnnnn+
or
+nnnnn-nnnnn+
Would the second - in the middle help or take away


yea... with this project... I only had eight plates....

I did the +nn--nn+ like several others recommended.... works GREAT in my 4 cylinder (25mpg to 40mpg)

NOW you can help me on my NEW project with 24 plates =)

http://hhoforums.com/showthread.php?t=1381

HHONissan
09-18-2008, 07:28 AM
I am currently using a 9 plate dry cell. I have tried two different configurations.

#1) +nnn-nnn+
#2) -nnn+nnn-

To my suprise the the #2 configuration was visually pruducing quite a bit more hho. I dont have a flowmeter built yet to verify my findings. I am using baking soda (1/8 cup per liter) and tap water and a battery charger set at 12v. Water only gets warm to the touch on either configuration.

Has anyone else tried this configuration? same results?

hydrotinkerer
09-18-2008, 04:39 PM
I am currently using a 9 plate dry cell. I have tried two different configurations.

#1) +nnn-nnn+
#2) -nnn+nnn-

To my suprise the the #2 configuration was visually pruducing quite a bit more hho. I dont have a flowmeter built yet to verify my findings. I am using baking soda (1/8 cup per liter) and tap water and a battery charger set at 12v. Water only gets warm to the touch on either configuration.

Has anyone else tried this configuration? same results?


Both cells variables being constant you would notice the center electrode on #2 producing the larger oxygen bubbles. I have played with a cell like those before and the lpm was the same, with the electrolite, power supply, etc being constant. My new cell I just assembled today is
+nnnnn--nnnnn+. We will see how it goes.

HHONissan
09-19-2008, 03:40 AM
Built my flow meter today. Getting 1.25 lpm, happy with that. I am using same electrolite, plate configuration, and battery charger as power. Also barrowed my brothers multimeter to check amp draw. However, the cell was recieving 10.5v and the amp draw was over the 20a max of the meter. I checked each n plate until meter maxed out, if each plate has an increasingly constant draw it comes out to 32a.

Tried both (+nnn-nnn+) and (-nnn+nnn-) both gave same hho output.

DaveyJones
09-19-2008, 01:15 PM
I think that +-+-+-+- is the most efficient. It will draw more current though so a pwm would be needed

Bossman
09-19-2008, 03:54 PM
Both cells variables being constant you would notice the center electrode on #2 producing the larger oxygen bubbles. I have played with a cell like those before and the lpm was the same, with the electrolite, power supply, etc being constant. My new cell I just assembled today is
+nnnnn--nnnnn+. We will see how it goes.


This is the exact set up I ended up running. Has temp issues. Tried wrapping with that self sticking electrical tape & after several hours all the edges on the wrap was cut. Nice clean cuts. So the ole light went off. I went to wally world & bought a bycycle tube.Cut it in 1/2 & was nice & square. Then sliced it open long ways & wrapped the cell with that & the temp stabilized. Great production & temps haven't reached 130*. Best I have sen is 128*. Now I need to check amp draw & LPM.

H2OPWR
09-20-2008, 05:32 AM
Use the configuration with more - plates and quit using tap water. The tap water will corrode your plates. Use rain water or distilled water and KOH. You will increase your effeciency by 40% over baking soda and reduce the brown sludge.

resago
09-22-2008, 05:10 PM
what about using U shaped neutrals like smith did. requires a larger enclosure, but he doesn't have heat issues.

+UUUUU-

could also just metal spacers between every other N.

+HHHHH-

or double

-UUUUU+UUUUU-
-HHHHH+HHHHH-

anyone know what the minimum large spacing is between neutrals?
I know the small spacing is around 2mm. smith is using 1" on the large space, but would 1/2" work just as well?

JonDoh
09-22-2008, 06:52 PM
^^^ Yea... I tried that.... those U shapes are harder to work with plus takes up tooooo much space. The bolts in between is the SMACK design which I did & it was ok.

So far I've tried these configs:
1) +-
2) +n-
3) +nn-
4) +nnn-
5) +nnnn-
6) +nnnnn-
7) +nnnnnn-
8) +-+-+-+-
These nxt configs I also switched polarities
9) +n-n+n-n+ switch -n+n-n+n-
10) +nn-nn+
12) +nn--nn+
13) +nnnn--nnnn+
14) +nnnnn-nnnnn+
15) +nnnnn--nnnnn+
16) +nn- -nn+ +nn- -nn+

I use the same electrolyte & 13.5v power supply....

So far the best has been #12

I just built #16 last nite & we'll see how that works out today.
Oh... there's a 1/4" spacers in between the cells that why theres a space between.

resago
09-22-2008, 07:53 PM
are you staggering the n spacing or no?

JonDoh
09-24-2008, 05:28 PM
^^^^ Staggering?????

I use same size plates with 0.064 washers in between the plates.

resago
09-24-2008, 06:46 PM
it would be great to get lpm, amp,V, and heat for each of those configs.
also include KOH concentration.

by staggering, I meant the span of the empty space in a U or H n plate.

hydrotinkerer
09-24-2008, 07:03 PM
what about using U shaped neutrals like smith did. requires a larger enclosure, but he doesn't have heat issues.

+UUUUU-

could also just metal spacers between every other N.

+HHHHH-

or double

-UUUUU+UUUUU-
-HHHHH+HHHHH-

anyone know what the minimum large spacing is between neutrals?
I know the small spacing is around 2mm. smith is using 1" on the large space, but would 1/2" work just as well?

I put together a Plumabob/Smith setup. Mine are in the trunk(room no issue) it produces better and cooler than any other setup I have tried(7 different gens so far).The only other gen that out produced it was my tero.

hanker886
09-25-2008, 12:02 AM
This is like Smack's booster setup


I put together a Plumabob/Smith setup. Mine are in the trunk(room no issue) it produces better and cooler than any other setup I have tried(7 different gens so far).The only other gen that out produced it was my tero.

Bossman
09-25-2008, 12:34 AM
^^^ Yea... I tried that.... those U shapes are harder to work with plus takes up tooooo much space. The bolts in between is the SMACK design which I did & it was ok.

So far I've tried these configs:
1) +-
2) +n-
3) +nn-
4) +nnn-
5) +nnnn-
6) +nnnnn-
7) +nnnnnn-
8) +-+-+-+-
These nxt configs I also switched polarities
9) +n-n+n-n+ switch -n+n-n+n-
10) +nn-nn+
12) +nn--nn+
13) +nnnn--nnnn+
14) +nnnnn-nnnnn+
15) +nnnnn--nnnnn+
16) +nn- -nn+ +nn- -nn+

I use the same electrolyte & 13.5v power supply....

So far the best has been #12

I just built #16 last nite & we'll see how that works out today.
Oh... there's a 1/4" spacers in between the cells that why theres a space between.

I'm running the #15 configuration. Good results once wraped. W/O wrap temps got too high too fast.

THEhomelessONE
09-25-2008, 01:49 AM
all this n+- crap is confusing to me lol i need to learn this stuff

what did you wrap it with?

mytoyotasucks
09-25-2008, 04:59 PM
all this n+- crap is confusing to me lol i need to learn this stuff

what did you wrap it with?

i havnt done any wraping myself yet, but some are using black electrical tape, some liquid black electrical tape, some are using and inertube for a tire, theres probly more.

the idea is so the current doesnt jump to far away from the plates.
and that way u get good power strait to the neutral plates

THEhomelessONE
09-26-2008, 01:37 AM
i think im lost, again, what is the wrapping for? if its for heat, why not just use exhaust wrap off of summitracing.com, its pretty cheap there, and can lower the temps under the hood a good amount if you finish up the headers

JonDoh
09-26-2008, 10:23 AM
^^^^^Hmmmm???? That's an idea homeless!! I'm going right by the Summit Store in McDonough, GA. today..... maybe I'll pick-up that muffler wrap & try it out.

Bossman don't live far f/ there :) I'll try his config #15 wrapped. I ain't good @ rapping :cool: but I'll give it a shot.... hahahaha :p


it would be great to get lpm, amp,V, and heat for each of those configs.
also include KOH concentration.

Yea... it would be... gotta get a flowmeter & a more precise Amp meter then I'll bust thru those configs again & record the results.

THEhomelessONE
09-26-2008, 02:32 PM
it sill probably help even more if you wrap it with aluminum then exhaust wrap?

resago
09-26-2008, 05:01 PM
no.
his is a bath setup. the glass wrap might work, but def not Al.

mytoyotasucks
09-26-2008, 05:41 PM
it sill probably help even more if you wrap it with aluminum then exhaust wrap?

aluminum would short circuit -

resago
09-26-2008, 06:38 PM
hmm, speaking of glass wrap.
a person could fiberglass his setup after finding the optimum design.;)

THEhomelessONE
09-26-2008, 10:14 PM
lol im a bit lost, what are we wrapping here?
because im thinking the whole plastic canister part, w/e its called

mytoyotasucks
09-26-2008, 11:55 PM
lol im a bit lost, what are we wrapping here?
because im thinking the whole plastic canister part, w/e its called

u want to wrap the stainless steel CELL that makes the HHO

here's a pic of what the current does if u do not wrap a cell

That is why u want to wrap with something like liquid electrical tape, or something that blocks current.


http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Ch10/Fig20.gif

THEhomelessONE
09-27-2008, 01:34 AM
thankyou very much!! saved me some time i would have wasted in the future lol

resago
09-27-2008, 09:33 PM
thats why I am thinking that dry is the way to go.

we should be able to come up with a rough lpm to Sq Inch value.

hhonewbie
09-29-2008, 08:40 AM
What about :

-+-S/S wool-+-S/S wool-+-

Use 316L flat plate for positive and perforated plate sandwiched with stainless steel wool for negative

mytoyotasucks
09-29-2008, 04:16 PM
What about :

-+-S/S wool-+-S/S wool-+-

Use 316L flat plate for positive and perforated plate sandwiched with stainless steel wool for negative


I dont know about a sandwich, but why perforated, u need as much sq" , and perforating tkes some sq" away.

JonDoh
10-08-2008, 10:14 PM
What about :

-+-S/S wool-+-S/S wool-+-

Use 316L flat plate for positive and perforated plate sandwiched with stainless steel wool for negative

A friend did the SS wool in an SS tube. It cranked out some HHO gas but the amps were running wildly!

Looks likethe best configs are:

+nnn-nnn+nnn-nnn+
+nnnn-nnnn+nnnn-nnnn+

DRY CELLS!

mytoyotasucks
10-22-2008, 08:04 PM
ok have tried

1 = -+ works ok but over 160 Degrees at 21 amps - get about 0.7 LPM
2 = -N+ works near same as one
3 = -NN+ and 20 amp - 120 Deg and 1.4 LPM === at 28A - 1.8 LPM
4 = -NNNNN++NNNNN- 30A - 0.8 LPM
What happened to #4??????? why so low production??

next i want to try #4 split into -NNNNN+ to see what happens.

donnylynn
10-22-2008, 08:59 PM
ok have tried

1 = -+ works ok but over 160 Degrees at 21 amps - get about 0.7 LPM
2 = -N+ works near same as one
3 = -NN+ and 20 amp - 120 Deg and 1.4 LPM === at 28A - 1.8 LPM
4 = -NNNNN++NNNNN- 30A - 0.8 LPM
What happened to #4??????? why so low production??

next i want to try #4 split into -NNNNN+ to see what happens.

What voltage are you using? It looks like #4 dropped below the threshold voltage needed to produce.

mytoyotasucks
10-22-2008, 09:07 PM
What voltage are you using? It looks like #4 dropped below the threshold voltage needed to produce.

1 = -+ works ok but over 160 Degrees at 21 amps - get about 0.7 LPM
2 = -N+ works near same as one
3 = -NN+ and 20 amp - 120 Deg and 1.4 LPM === at 28A - 1.8 LPM
4 = -NNNNN++NNNNN- 30A - 0.8 LPM

all at 12.2 - 12.7V

mytoyotasucks
10-22-2008, 09:33 PM
1 = -+ works ok but over 160 Degrees at 21 amps - get about 0.7 LPM
2 = -N+ works near same as one
3 = -NN+ and 20 amp - 120 Deg and 1.4 LPM === at 28A - 1.8 LPM
4 = -NNNNN++NNNNN- 30A - 0.8 LPM

all at 12.2 - 12.7V

ok according to mmw calc, im getting 5.97 MMW.

and thats at #3 At 22A, 13.7V, 1.8LPM.
shuold i be happy with that??

cause in another post some one said that "6.183 mmw theoretical max efficiency"

ejohnson44004
11-08-2008, 03:21 PM
I have my plate set up as follows +NNNN--NNNN+. This produces a lot of HHo at low temps. My generator is made from 4" PVC tube which holds 2.5L of electrolyte, which is made up using puified water from my dehumidifier and 1 2/3tsp. of sodium hydroxide (crystal drain cleaner). Has anyone ran anything similar to this and am I to expect any problems? I've only been running this for a couple of weeks, but seems OK so far.

stephane
12-14-2008, 10:33 PM
I'm building something like this.
Water in is from the bottom, out from the top.
Positive and negative got different pipes to spread HHO from O.
I tried this with 3 cells, I thought it wasn't working but after a wile it run quite well.
It needed to be "charged", that the water flew on the circle from up to down.
I don't need to change O2 sensor parameter, I don't need to cheat the electronic, I just separate the O from the HHO.
With 3 cells I had 27% better mileage.
One cell is build this way:
NN+NN, the next one NN-NN.
With 3 cells, I needed 4,2 liter of water, the flow was quite fast and the temp. low all the time.
I had 45'C after 700km non stop running. (9 hours).
With 6 cells, I'm trying to put in an AMP. regulator couple with the RPM of the Jeep, Higher the RPM is more AMP. it will be.

As soon as I will finish this, I will make a picture.

coffeeachiever
12-15-2008, 03:41 AM
Stephane,
The question had been posed before if seperating the gasses would nullify the need for an efie. No one knew for sure, but I had speculated that it would not because the fuel would burn more completely and still provide cleaner emissions. I had thought the cleaner emissions would trigger the ecu to dump more fuel. The results you say you are getting means I was quite wrong.
Russ, here's where your experiment with magnets for electrodes becomes very interesting. Here is a great way to separate the gasses and really test this. Even if the magnets degrade in preliminary testing, this could be a step forward in getting around that damned computer.

stephane
12-15-2008, 11:43 AM
I've found out that the ECU take in account not fuel but O2.
If in the exaust manifold there is too much O2, the computer is giving more gas to "burn" it.
When I separate O from HO, the "free" O is a lot less than it should be
Because the HO take some O needed by the gasoline, so the lambda check (in catalizator) ask the computer to give less gasoline (it cannot give more air ).
In fact, I'm running on a poor mix. Just as I would have with an EFI but well controlled by the computer that try to "save" the valves.
I will see if my theories are good in a couple of month...

Anyway you are not able to control this as well when you are using an EFI, changing the O2 sensor impuls give the same but without "fluent" control on every RPM range.

Randohr
12-21-2008, 07:24 PM
I always error on the side of negative plates. If I have room for an odd number of plates for example; -+-+- will be my config. I used to run with -N+N-N+N-, or two neutrals in between my connected plates. I prefer open bath designs for simplicity and the neutrals would cause me production issues. I could watch the water flow (current flow) bypass the neutrals in the bath and less HHO was the result. I used colored electrolyte and a glass container to watch what was going on. Also, ohms law comes into play when you're dividing up the current with series/parallel (using neutrals) cell designs. If series cells are your preference, simple dry cells are +NNNNN- the way to go. No leakage current around the plates. I've built series cells and PWM's and officially prefer brute force.

The -+-+-+-, w/ neg plates always on the outside, is my current favorite.

ps. I'm not selling or endorsing anything, just giving alternatives.

02-18-2009, 10:44 PM
I am running -nnnn+nnnn- and -nnn+nnn- with both units 1/3 gain in mpg I know for sure running scan gauge

chitown1234
02-23-2009, 10:47 PM
u want to wrap the stainless steel CELL that makes the HHO

here's a pic of what the current does if u do not wrap a cell

That is why u want to wrap with something like liquid electrical tape, or something that blocks current.


http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Ch10/Fig20.gif


so would u only wrap the - and or + and leave the n unwraped
________
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Stealth_NT
02-24-2009, 02:07 AM
what about using U shaped neutrals like smith did. requires a larger enclosure, but he doesn't have heat issues.

+UUUUU-

could also just metal spacers between every other N.

+HHHHH-

or double

-UUUUU+UUUUU-
-HHHHH+HHHHH-

anyone know what the minimum large spacing is between neutrals?
I know the small spacing is around 2mm. smith is using 1" on the large space, but would 1/2" work just as well?


Someone have a picture or draw of this U shaped cells? because I dont get it.

ajriding
03-31-2009, 01:49 AM
I'm looking in this thread to figure out how to configure the plates. right now I am playing with 16 3x5 plates.
I am seeing a lot of +nn- -nn+ is a good way to go, and -nnnn+nnnn- , or even 5 n's in middle.
I want to get max hho production with fewest amps.
right now I have -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ (8 pairs). It draws a lot of amps (controlled with pwm) and puts out about 0.3 lpm at ~30 amps/ 12V.
Was going to try the +nn- -nn+ first.
Also, wrapping the plates in a wet cell... are u just wrapping the whole thing? I saw the term "brick" and it sounds like when u wrap all the plates together it will look like a brick.
I would like to limit my amps to 20-25 and still get at least 1.5 lpm.

mytoyotasucks
03-31-2009, 02:32 AM
I'm looking in this thread to figure out how to configure the plates. right now I am playing with 16 3x5 plates.
I am seeing a lot of +nn- -nn+ is a good way to go, and -nnnn+nnnn- , or even 5 n's in middle.
I want to get max hho production with fewest amps.
right now I have -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ (8 pairs). It draws a lot of amps (controlled with pwm) and puts out about 0.3 lpm at ~30 amps/ 12V.
Was going to try the +nn- -nn+ first.
Also, wrapping the plates in a wet cell... are u just wrapping the whole thing? I saw the term "brick" and it sounds like when u wrap all the plates together it will look like a brick.
I would like to limit my amps to 20-25 and still get at least 1.5 lpm.

OK from my experiments, the more plates = more amps, my last dry cell test went like this:

13 plates +NNNNN-NNNNN+

.074 gap

10% KOH by weight

15 amps cold 11.4V


500ml - 40 sec

Painless
03-31-2009, 12:58 PM
I'm looking in this thread to figure out how to configure the plates. right now I am playing with 16 3x5 plates.
I am seeing a lot of +nn- -nn+ is a good way to go, and -nnnn+nnnn- , or even 5 n's in middle.
I want to get max hho production with fewest amps.
right now I have -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ (8 pairs). It draws a lot of amps (controlled with pwm) and puts out about 0.3 lpm at ~30 amps/ 12V.
Was going to try the +nn- -nn+ first.
Also, wrapping the plates in a wet cell... are u just wrapping the whole thing? I saw the term "brick" and it sounds like when u wrap all the plates together it will look like a brick.
I would like to limit my amps to 20-25 and still get at least 1.5 lpm.
Your best answer for now is to abandon the wet cell configuration altogether. With a dry cell, you will easily be able to achieve your 1.5 LPM at the amp draw you specify with 16 plates.



Use 5 neutrals.
Make your plate gap approx 1/16th inch.
Start with a couple of teaspoons of KOH per gallon and work your way up to the output you need.

Check out my video below, it details how to easily make a dry cell:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/KrovCAzg_kY&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/KrovCAzg_kY&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Hope this helps!

Russ.

godfish
04-07-2009, 12:56 AM
Your best answer for now is to abandon the wet cell configuration altogether. With a dry cell, you will easily be able to achieve your 1.5 LPM at the amp draw you specify with 16 plates.



Use 5 neutrals.
Make your plate gap approx 1/16th inch.
Start with a couple of teaspoons of KOH per gallon and work your way up to the output you need.



Russ.

Hello, when you say 16 plates with 1.5 LPM are you talking about the drycell in the video? I'm trying to make a HHO furnace for my home and I'm looking for cheap cost and good HHO output that can be run with at computer power supply.

Painless
04-07-2009, 03:13 AM
Hello, when you say 16 plates with 1.5 LPM are you talking about the drycell in the video? I'm trying to make a HHO furnace for my home and I'm looking for cheap cost and good HHO output that can be run with at computer power supply.
Yes, I'm referring to my dry cell, or any other dry cell, design.

Russ.

truckman1966
04-28-2009, 08:49 PM
I have tried:

1. -N+N-
2. -N+N-N+N-
3. -N+N-N+N- -N+N-N+N-

on number 3 they are plate stacks in the same resivoir but mounted to top of my acrylic box first. mounted them to the sides and gave them individual power supplies and eliminated my heat problem. I have also used baking soda and NaOH

truckman1966
04-28-2009, 09:16 PM
i will get back with measurements and specs

sima.z
05-22-2009, 03:08 PM
I have my plate set up as follows +NNNN--NNNN+. This produces a lot of HHo at low temps. My generator is made from 4" PVC tube which holds 2.5L of electrolyte, which is made up using puified water from my dehumidifier and 1 2/3tsp. of sodium hydroxide (crystal drain cleaner). Has anyone ran anything similar to this and am I to expect any problems? I've only been running this for a couple of weeks, but seems OK so far.

Hi, see this
-NNN+NNN- 0.6 LPm 5x5" dry cell with Baking soda at 0.8 gap, 8-10amps What do you think? 20% gain on a 82 4x4 subaru in Colombia South America

I just read on that the gap should be 1/16 ??
What do you think
Fell free to reply to my e-mail, [email protected]
Thanks
SIMA.z

sima.z
05-22-2009, 03:13 PM
I am running -nnnn+nnnn- and -nnn+nnn- with both units 1/3 gain in mpg I know for sure running scan gauge



Hi, see this
-NNN+NNN- 0.6 LPm 5x5" dry cell with Baking soda at 0.8 gap, 8-10amps What do you think? 20% gain on a 82 4x4 subaru in Colombia South America

I just read on that the gap should be 1/16 ?? Whatis your configuration
What do you think
Fell free to reply to my e-mail, [email protected]
Thanks

sima.z
05-22-2009, 03:16 PM
thats why I am thinking that dry is the way to go.

we should be able to come up with a rough lpm to Sq Inch value.


Hi, see this
-NNN+NNN- 0.6 LPm 5x5" dry cell with Baking soda at 0.8 gap, 8-10amps What do you think? 20% gain on a 82 4x4 subaru in Colombia South America

I just read on that the gap should be 1/16 ?? , Moving into KOH
What do you think
Fell free to reply to my e-mail, [email protected]
Thanks

perakojot
07-17-2009, 12:36 AM
I am going to try with this configuration +NN-NN+NN-

Does enybody try this combination?

jericoriver
07-17-2009, 08:56 AM
I am going to try with this configuration +NN-NN+NN-

Does enybody try this combination?

Go back and read all the posts in this thread. Then you will understand why thats too many volts per plate. Too much power wasted on heat.

perakojot
07-19-2009, 01:28 PM
So, what is then the best plate configuration, lowest loses and best production??

Q-Hack!
07-19-2009, 05:42 PM
So, what is then the best plate configuration, lowest loses and best production??

This question really depends on what voltage you plan to hook up to the HHO generator.

To determine plate gap voltage use the following:

Number of plates in a stack minus one = the number of plate gaps
Voltage applied to the stack divided by Number of plate gaps = voltage per plate gap

A stack is defined as a set of one anode plate, one cathode plate and any neutral plates in between. eg. +|||- or +|||||- you can string multiple stacks together like +|||||-|||||+|||||- This will give you more surface area much like using larger plates would. The idea being that more surface area allows for more gas to be produced.

For the best balance of HHO production and heat, you want your voltage per plate gap to be in the range of 2 - 2.4 volts. Since on most vehicles the alternator puts out 13.5 volts, you would want 5 neutrals or +|||||- in a stack. This will give you 2.25 volts per plate gap.

If your vehicle is one of those that uses a 24v charging system then you would want ten neutrals. +||||||||||-

perakojot
07-20-2009, 01:09 PM
Look what plumabob postet on this link.
He put +NNNNNNNN- and said that is a winer.
First he said that is +-+-+-+-+- but later he corect himself on +NNNNNNNN- .
I intend to instal HHO on MAZDA 626.

http://www.hhoforums.com/archive/index.php/t-254.html

Q-Hack!
07-20-2009, 04:58 PM
Look what plumabob postet on this link.
He put +NNNNNNNN- and said that is a winer.
Wirs he said that is +-+-+-+-+- but later he corect himself on +NNNNNNNN- .
I intend to instal HHO on MAZDA 626.

http://www.hhoforums.com/archive/index.php/t-254.html

plumabob's design is more than a year old and we have learned a lot since then. If you will notice in the link you provided, nowhere does he ever talk about MMW efficiency. This was something that the community started doing a couple of months after he came out with his design. A good dry cell design (sometimes referred to as a terro cell) will outperform plumabob's design everytime. Another good thing about the dry cell is that if you want to change from 4 neutrals to 5 or 6 you can quickly and easily do so. Makes testing much nicer. Don't get me wrong, plumabob and Smith03Jetta where huge contributors to the HHO world. But as a community we have moved on to better ideas.

perakojot
07-21-2009, 01:19 AM
OK, thanks veery much. I wil try combination that you told me. Since my mazda is on 12V I will use +|||||-
One more question, I hope :) , can I use the victor design and make it like this on link just vith no C plate, with N, and must he be in line on common bolt or it can be like the victor design on common lower bolt and separate uper bolt?

http://www.myonlinead.biz/VICTOR_Assembly.html

Q-Hack!
07-21-2009, 02:15 AM
OK, thanks veery much. I wil try combination that you told me. Since my mazda is on 12V I will use +|||||-
One more question, I hope :) , can I use the victor design and make it like this on link just vith no C plate, with N, and must he be in line on common bolt or it can be like the victor design on common lower bolt and separate uper bolt?

http://www.myonlinead.biz/VICTOR_Assembly.html

Wow... I would put that into the 'Lets make up stuff to sound impressive' category

Class I, Class II and Class III plate designs??? WTF? Makes absolutely no sense. And what the heck is a C plate? I notice that they only compare it to the W4G mason jar design. (known for being a POS). There are good open bath designs, but this isn't one of them.

If you want to follow a proven design go with http://www.energybuildersnetwork.com/ or copy boytonstu's design http://www.hhoforums.com/showthread.php?t=2994&highlight=amoeba+cell You will be much happier in the end.

perakojot
07-22-2009, 02:43 PM
Thanks budy, you are savior. :)
I make ma HHO generator but production is not impresive. I dont use PWM. Because I am busy, I am going to instal them tomorow.
I let you know how it works.
Thanks!

slade420
07-22-2009, 09:08 PM
Has anyone tried a stan meyers style cell, with stainless steel tubing? It seems a lot less restrictive in terms of electrolyte delivery than a dry cell. Also heat and foaming seem to be not as serious an issue.

i aquired a 20 foot length 1 1/2 inch outer diameter of 316L Stainless steel seemless tubing. I didnt think at the time about the inside Negative pipes, now am thinking of other ways to do it.

let me know what you think. Id love some ideas.

cabrera
07-22-2009, 10:16 PM
Has anyone experimented with a 21 plate cell configured
-NNNN+NNNN-NNNN+NNNN-
This would be connected to a car What kind of output should I expect?
:confused:

jericoriver
07-22-2009, 11:41 PM
See post # 64.

cabrera
07-23-2009, 12:05 AM
See post # 64.

Thanx after reading so many posts I missed the one I was looking for.
So my plan would give me 2.7v per stack for total of 10.8v :eek:

So I should add 1 more neutral to each stack & create a 5th stack?

Llew2_1
08-11-2009, 07:27 AM
My experiment is with a SS case 12 inches square. 16 plates 8 x 10 x .040 inches. Each plate is 80 sq inches, spacing is .120 inches Total area is 1280 sq inches plus the inside of the case.
My first test, which will be tomorrow.
12 plates +nnnnnnnnnnn inch space -nnnn with case as the negative grounded to the car.
Electrolyte Potassium Hydroxide.
The reason for the SS case, is Australian Design Rules will demand this in the future. So I'm stating with a SS case
As a flow meter I am going to try, a 1 litre bottle with the bottom cut off. The HHO outlet tube going into the top, place in a bucket of water. Then time it as the HHO pushes the water out of the bottle. Anyone tried this ??
Comment,suggestions, advice all welcome.

Llew2_1
08-11-2009, 10:07 AM
My experiment is with a SS case 12 inches square. 16 plates 8 x 10 x .040 inches. Each plate is 80 sq inches, spacing is .120 inches Total area is 1280 sq inches plus the inside of the case.
My first test, which will be tomorrow.
12 plates +nnnnnnnnnnn inch space -nnnn with case as the negative grounded to the car.
Electrolyte Potassium Hydroxide.
The reason for the SS case, is Australian Design Rules will demand this in the future. So I'm stating with a SS case

fastcompacts
11-27-2009, 01:23 PM
I would first like to say hi to everyone (this is my first posting). So I would first like to say that i have a dry cell running 11 plates. So if i understand right a cell set up -nnnn+nnnn- will create the same output as a cell set up like +nnnn-nnnn+? Am i right in assuming that? Also am i right in assuming that i need to get an average of around 2v per plate. Would either set up listed above have a voltage closer to 2v per plate? (I am under the impression that the alternator makes 13.5v and you take that value and divide it by the number of spaces between the plates...so does my math work out>>> 13.5v/5plate spacings to get 2.7v per plate.) so if that math is right should i look into getting 2 more neutral plates or should i just reconfigure the cell. Thanks in advance to anyone that can help. ;)

mytoyotasucks
11-27-2009, 04:07 PM
I would first like to say hi to everyone (this is my first posting). So I would first like to say that i have a dry cell running 11 plates. So if i understand right a cell set up -nnnn+nnnn- will create the same output as a cell set up like +nnnn-nnnn+? Am i right in assuming that? Also am i right in assuming that i need to get an average of around 2v per plate. Would either set up listed above have a voltage closer to 2v per plate? (I am under the impression that the alternator makes 13.5v and you take that value and divide it by the number of spaces between the plates...so does my math work out>>> 13.5v/5plate spacings to get 2.7v per plate.) so if that math is right should i look into getting 2 more neutral plates or should i just reconfigure the cell. Thanks in advance to anyone that can help. ;)

Ok to start where the + and _ are does not matter, either one will pruduce the same amount, It is classified as 2 cells though. +nnnn-nnnn+ =2 cells - +nnnn-nnnn+nnnn- = 3 cells.


and for each cell - i test the voltage on the plates from one side to another.
I use 13 plates in a 2 cell = 13.5/7 = 1.9 V per plate.

What electrolyte do you use?

fastcompacts
11-27-2009, 04:53 PM
As far as electrolyte is concerned i use KOH although i have heard that sodium hydroxide work well too.

Llew2_1
12-31-2009, 08:27 AM
I have been using mostly caustic soda, tried baking soda not quite as good.
I alway get mixed up with the cemical names.
I am about to run another test tomorrow. A few days ago drawing, 103 amps at 11 volts ( alternator could not cope ) managed 10 LPM for a few mins. Turned it off be alternator got damaged.
Anybody know the chemical names. Potasum Hydroxide I think is castic soda.
Llew

mytoyotasucks
12-31-2009, 03:05 PM
I have been using mostly caustic soda, tried baking soda not quite as good.
I alway get mixed up with the cemical names.
I am about to run another test tomorrow. A few days ago drawing, 103 amps at 11 volts ( alternator could not cope ) managed 10 LPM for a few mins. Turned it off be alternator got damaged.
Anybody know the chemical names. Potasum Hydroxide I think is castic soda.
Llew

Sodium hydroxide (Caustic soda) and potassium hydroxide (Caustic potash)(KOH)

I use potassium hydroxide its a little more expensive but works best.

and never touch either above with bare skin!!!

Llew2_1
01-19-2010, 12:51 PM
My best configeration so far is Pos nnnnn Neg 8 mm gap Pos nnnnn Neg, .076 inches gap or just under 2 mm. My plates are 80 sq inch each 14 0f them and at 30 volt 140 amp I am producing 10 LPM. If you look on my web site, you will see my flow meter. Very simple. www.angelfire.com/mt/llew
Llew

mytoyotasucks
01-19-2010, 04:00 PM
why are you using - Pos nnnnn Neg 8 mm gap Pos nnnnn Neg
and not - Pos nnnnn Neg nnnnn Pos?

Its the same minus a plate.

Cause with - Neg 8 mm gap Pos - the 8mm gap would be conducting power from the end plates.

hhonewbie
01-19-2010, 05:15 PM
My best configeration so far is Pos nnnnn Neg 8 mm gap Pos nnnnn Neg, .076 inches gap or just under 2 mm. My plates are 80 sq inch each 14 0f them and at 30 volt 140 amp I am producing 10 LPM. If you look on my web site, you will see my flow meter. Very simple. www.angelfire.com/mt/llew
Llew

The volts & amps are way to high and your setup is inefficient. Expect negative MPG gains. Put your plates to good use and build yourself decent drycells.

rboos
01-26-2010, 12:18 PM
Reading this thread (deciding my plate set-up) I ended up with a theory on electrodes and neutral plates. As a convicted newbie there might be a lot of confusion so please correct me if I am wrong.

Lets say we had this set-up:

+ N N N N N -

Initially we count on electrolite because the distance between the electrodes is longer. Water charges, some O and H's start travelling towards its opposites; They cloud on the 1st Neutral plate surface they find, and charge it. 1st neutral plate near the + (charges with '+') and vice-versa;

The distance now is shorter (between the different charges) and production is getting better; ions charge the next Neutral surface and so goes on, until all Neutrals are charged; O and H's now can travel towards the attracted surface and end up floating on the water level and because of the temperature difference (and volume) and go up in the exit tube.

If this is what really happens, it would make a difference to have a even number of plates or not;

Examples:

+ N - ...> Each surface of the neutral plate ionizes with each polarity;
+ N N - ...> Each neutral plate ionizes with each polarity;
+ N N N - ...> 1 neutral ionizes with +, other with -, and the center one ionizes each surface with different polarities;

Let's say we had a more conductive electrode in the + pole; it would affect the equillibrium and charge more neutral plates;

If all that is not what happens, we would be accepting there is no charge at the neutrals, and so there would be no dissociation happening on those surfaces (lost space)...

Please tell me if my thoughts are in the right path...

ultra_efficient
01-08-2012, 01:05 AM
^^^ Yea... I tried that.... those U shapes are harder to work with plus takes up tooooo much space. The bolts in between is the SMACK design which I did & it was ok.

So far I've tried these configs:
1) +-
2) +n-
3) +nn-
4) +nnn-
5) +nnnn-
6) +nnnnn-
7) +nnnnnn-
8) +-+-+-+-
These nxt configs I also switched polarities
9) +n-n+n-n+ switch -n+n-n+n-
10) +nn-nn+
12) +nn--nn+
13) +nnnn--nnnn+
14) +nnnnn-nnnnn+
15) +nnnnn--nnnnn+
16) +nn- -nn+ +nn- -nn+

I use the same electrolyte & 13.5v power supply....

So far the best has been #12

I just built #16 last nite & we'll see how that works out today.
Oh... there's a 1/4" spacers in between the cells that why theres a space between.

just repeat (7) as much as you can or like this +nnnnnn-nnnnnn+nnnnnn-nnnnnn+ect......


this is my 5 sets of n plates cell
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAnDjx2dWrM

Alkaline
02-08-2012, 02:27 AM
Hey guys, first post here. Trying an HHO generator on 2004 subaru WRX right now.

Currently using the + n n n n n - n n n n n + config with
1/16" 316 steel plates (4"x6") and 1/16" rubber spacers.

Alternator putz out 14.2v or something so... thats 2.4v per plate, correct?

Went to lowes and got some 100% lye (NaOH) for electrolye and added 1/2teaspn per gallon distil water

HHO production looks really low right now and not even measuring on my amp scale.. can anyone think of stupid mistakes i might have missed?

errors i can think of top of my head are :::
.) the edge of one plate is slightly bent
.) not enough NaOH?
.) too small spacing?
.) too large spacing?
.) not enough spacing between each 'set'?

Any help mucchhh appr!! i still use aim (lol) so hit me up if you want Alkaline198

myoldyourgold
02-08-2012, 02:47 AM
http://www.hhoforums.com/showthread.php?p=48654#post48654