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Rgrey9
09-14-2008, 11:42 AM
I have a 04 Dodge 1500 with a 5.7 Here is what I have installed so far:
1 liter water filter style generator with 7 SS blank electrical plates and 12Ga copper wire to them (I need to change this)
Bubbler made out of 1.5" PVC pipe with the hose piped into the top of the air intake at the manifold
I have the system switched to the ignition through a relay with a PWM installed(right now it is tuned all the way on)
I have installed a MAP sensor enhancer to lean the regular fuel
I am using 2tsp/ gal of baking soda for electrolyte
Right now it takes 5min to produce 1ltr of hydrogen
I am getting 17mpg (originally 14mpg)
I'm trying some different formulas with baking soda and have some KOH ordered

RGrey9

Uwee
09-20-2008, 11:08 PM
Can you tell me how many times you ran those millage tests? Also what millage do you get stock and how much after the MAP sensor change? That mod to the truck alone should net a 2mpg increase or so.

Painless
09-21-2008, 12:05 AM
Interesting results, I have an 06 ram with the 4.7. I'm generating 1.25LPM and am seeing a 1mpg extra on the highway, however, around town at 30mpg I am getting an extra 5 mpg. This tells me that 1.25LPM just isn't enough for higher speeds than 30mph (rpm wise), I'm surprised you're getting any gains from the HHO.

I'm not running any other mods at the moment, other than the HHO.

hygear
09-21-2008, 09:58 AM
Interesting results, I have an 06 ram with the 4.7. I'm generating 1.25LPM and am seeing a 1mpg extra on the highway, however, around town at 30mpg I am getting an extra 5 mpg. This tells me that 1.25LPM just isn't enough for higher speeds than 30mph (rpm wise), I'm surprised you're getting any gains from the HHO.

I'm not running any other mods at the moment, other than the HHO.

There are a couple of inexpensive mods that may add a small percentage of mileage gains for you.The IAT and ECT mods are simple and cost about $3.oo.Install a 10k ohm resistor in paralell across the IAT sensor wire and a 3.9k-6.8k resistor across your ECT sensor wire.Radio Shack or any other electronics store has them.I noticed a small gain after installing these on my truck.These and a map enhancer are all the mods I run at present.

Rgrey9
09-26-2008, 08:22 PM
I have been Just running my MPG tests just using my on board readout, but I am starting to wonder how accurate this is?

Painless
09-26-2008, 08:30 PM
I have been Just running my MPG tests just using my on board readout, but I am starting to wonder how accurate this is?

I have an 06 4.7 Ram with the overhead readout, I ran a few tests against a tank and a calculator and found it was accurate to about half an MPG.

Stack
09-27-2008, 07:34 AM
I have an 06 Dodge Ram 5.7 and my question is how do I get my relay to turn on and feed power to my HHO Generator when my ignition key is turned on, and off again when my key is removed. All of the wires in my ignition switch are working on ohms for theft deterrant.

Painless
09-27-2008, 08:45 AM
I have an 06 Dodge Ram 5.7 and my question is how do I get my relay to turn on and feed power to my HHO Generator when my ignition key is turned on, and off again when my key is removed. All of the wires in my ignition switch are working on ohms for theft deterrant.

Here's what I did on my 06 ram 4.7L:

Buy an 'add-a-circuit', NAPA has them but they are called 'add-a-line'.

Install the add-a-circuit into the PWR/RUN fuse in the fuse box.

Run the wire from the add-a-circuit to the trigger terminal on your relay.

Rgrey9
09-28-2008, 08:33 AM
thanks, I guess the mpg read out is accurate. I received the KOH and starting out with 2tsp/ltr I am getting 1ltr of hydrogen per min so we will see what mpg that translates into.

Stack
09-28-2008, 08:44 PM
My 2006 Dodge Ram 5.7 Hemi has HHO on it for 3 days now. I am reading the mpg computer readout thing on the ceiling(between driver and passenger side) of my truck, above my rear view mirror. I was at a consistent 11.5 forever until I added this HHO generator, and now two o2 sensor extenders. I haven't measured the litre output of the generator, but the computer readout thing tells me I'm getting 14.5 mpg. It's drawing 25 amps. 3 mpg is a 26% increase, which translates into about $29 worth of gas savings. However, I am hoping to get 30% to 50% increase. I guess I should do the wiring up the box thing next that is between the o2 sensors and the MAP computer????? Any suggestons for me? Should I really have added the o2 extenders so soon??? My bubbler is bubbling like an S.O.B. and the generator is almost completely full of HHO bubbles.

Rgrey9
09-29-2008, 07:12 PM
I am still leaning but everything I am reading and finding out through my own experiments says that you can add the hydrogen but you have to lean out the fuel to gain mpg, I did it through a MAP sensor enhancer. Also make sure your onboard readout is reading mpg not liters per kilometer, I made that mistake not realizing it would read either way. What size generator are you using and let me know when you measure your lpm

hg2
10-04-2008, 11:03 PM
My 2006 Dodge Ram 5.7 Hemi has HHO on it for 3 days now. I am reading the mpg computer readout thing on the ceiling(between driver and passenger side) of my truck, above my rear view mirror. I was at a consistent 11.5 forever until I added this HHO generator, and now two o2 sensor extenders. I haven't measured the litre output of the generator, but the computer readout thing tells me I'm getting 14.5 mpg. It's drawing 25 amps. 3 mpg is a 26% increase, which translates into about $29 worth of gas savings. However, I am hoping to get 30% to 50% increase. I guess I should do the wiring up the box thing next that is between the o2 sensors and the MAP computer????? Any suggestons for me? Should I really have added the o2 extenders so soon??? My bubbler is bubbling like an S.O.B. and the generator is almost completely full of HHO bubbles.


I tried o2 extenders on my Dodge and got tired of check light constantly coming on and clearing it.Finally put them in the round file where they belong.If you want mileage gains with a dodge you will have to install an o2 efie,also a map enhancer.Other mods such as iat and ect sesnsors,using 10k and 6.8k ohm resistors wired in paralell.These mods will aid in leaning,the ecm will accept the enhancer mods a little easier without going to open loop.

When trying to hho tune a dodge patience is your best tool for they are a royal pain to dial in.It may take longer than a week slowly bringing up both o2 and map enhancers a bit at a time so you won't freak out the ecm to go into open loop and have to start from scratch.


Good luck with your tuning

Painless
10-04-2008, 11:18 PM
Other mods such as iat and ect sesnsors,using 10k and 6.8k ohm resistors wired in paralell.These mods will aid in leaning,the ecm will accept the enhancer mods a little easier without going to open loop.

If I modify the ECT in this way, will it effect the readout of the coolant temp gauge in the dash? ... or is this fed by separate input?

hg2
10-04-2008, 11:56 PM
If I modify the ECT in this way, will it effect the readout of the coolant temp gauge in the dash? ... or is this fed by separate input?

Yes you will see a small rise on the temp gauge but it's a false reading that will allow the ecm to slightly retard the timing which is needed if you're applying a sufficient ammount of hho.A 6.8k resistor wired in paralell should do the trick.You may experience some cold start issues with this mod and if it becomes a problem you may have to try other resistors.I started with a 3.9k res. first and found it to be too much and had difficulties with cold starts in the mornings.Remember all vehicles are different and what works on some may not on others,it's a trial and error process but not a difficult one.There is one thing you can do though is wire the mod to a switch in the cab and after the motor warms up a min. you can switch over.

freddyhho
01-11-2009, 02:43 AM
I been in the HHO stuff by a year or so, start building a W4G device(didn't use it) it doesn't work, then I build a Tube Cell, it works but to many heat, then I make a Smack Booster, (I use it for 2 months) it works well but I targeting for more production less heat, and this is how I ended building a Tero Dry Cell, works very well, not to hot (100F tops), and the production is good, still have the issue of putting another Dry Cell to doubled the production and start to see a real gas savings, but right now, my pickup has gained power and smoothness running engine and the reduction in contaminants from the exaust.;)

tomisnt
02-11-2009, 10:52 PM
I have a 06 dakota with a 4.7. I added about 1.2-1.6 HHO from a 21 plate cell with a double bubbler. Like painless, the HHO alone only gained me about 1+ MPG over my baseline milage. (I drive sometimes 400 miles a week with a confusing combination of city and hiway. Hence, a long term baseline is my measuring stick.)

I tried two sets of O2 extenders, one on all 4 O2 sensors. (CA package)

I added a MAP and gained 10% with no codes. Yep, no codes. I was too chicken to crank it up any more than that due to fear of overheating the pistons.(More later)

But, I had to pull the cell last weekend to fix a leak and unground my negative post for a PWM. This weekend I will put the cell back in with one of shanes PWMs added.

I said no codes. That is, until I unhooked everything.... I reset the computer.

I also tapped the front O2 sensors for an EFIE that I will be installing soon. After reading painless's and other's reports of EFies on CA emissions vehicles, I am conerned that I will have problems.

I am curious how Alpha Dog and Painless came out on theirs.

I was going to start a dodge 4.7 thread but saw yours and jumped in on this one. I will share more info as I get it.

tomisnt
02-11-2009, 10:53 PM
Oh, I forgot to mention, the O2 extenders did nothing for me

Painless
02-11-2009, 11:38 PM
Here's the bad news....

You are going to need somewhere between 4 and 5 LPM of HHO to make a difference on that engine. The few MPG I gained were due to leaning and not HHO.

O2 extenders don't work, as you've already noticed, you will need to EFIE the oxygen sensors both before and after the CAT.

The 4.7 is a tough nut to crack, but I believe it can be done.

Russ.

Painless
02-11-2009, 11:39 PM
I didn't buy an EFIE for mine, I built a circuit to replace the 2.5v BIAS signal with the output from an adjustable voltage regulator. You can find more info on my thread, works out a LOT cheaper in the end.

alpha-dog
02-12-2009, 09:50 PM
I have a 06 dakota with a 4.7. I added about 1.2-1.6 HHO from a 21 plate cell with a double bubbler. Like painless, the HHO alone only gained me about 1+ MPG over my baseline milage. (I drive sometimes 400 miles a week with a confusing combination of city and hiway. Hence, a long term baseline is my measuring stick.)

I tried two sets of O2 extenders, one on all 4 O2 sensors. (CA package)

I added a MAP and gained 10% with no codes. Yep, no codes. I was too chicken to crank it up any more than that due to fear of overheating the pistons.(More later)

But, I had to pull the cell last weekend to fix a leak and unground my negative post for a PWM. This weekend I will put the cell back in with one of shanes PWMs added.

I said no codes. That is, until I unhooked everything.... I reset the computer.

I also tapped the front O2 sensors for an EFIE that I will be installing soon. After reading painless's and other's reports of EFies on CA emissions vehicles, I am conerned that I will have problems.

I am curious how Alpha Dog and Painless came out on theirs.

I was going to start a dodge 4.7 thread but saw yours and jumped in on this one. I will share more info as I get it.

I'm finally getting my system back together. I've been doing a lot of research and applying that new knowledge. I took my sid cell and split it into 2 electrolysers with a total of 4 stacks and 5 N plates in each stack. Also I've plasti-dipped the holes. I've built a resevior simular to painless's and a new bubbler. I have quad EFIE's installed and a MAP resistor. My biggest change is with the pwm's. I'll be using 2 modified MX067's ( P-channel fets ) ( current limit circuit ). I'm still thinking about making them run at 25khz to 50khz. I should be up and running this weekend.
Russ

Painless
02-12-2009, 10:58 PM
I'm finally getting my system back together. I've been doing a lot of research and applying that new knowledge. I took my sid cell and split it into 2 electrolysers with a total of 4 stacks and 5 N plates in each stack. Also I've plasti-dipped the holes. I've built a resevior simular to painless's and a new bubbler. I have quad EFIE's installed and a MAP resistor. My biggest change is with the pwm's. I'll be using 2 modified MX067's ( P-channel fets ) ( current limit circuit ). I'm still thinking about making them run at 25khz to 50khz. I should be up and running this weekend.
Russ

Looking forward to seeing your results, Russ. Really interested in the P channel fet setup. If it works well, I could easily replace my FETs I suppose.

tomisnt
02-12-2009, 11:02 PM
We are all curious how you come out with the quad efies alpha. Have you tested adding voltage yet? what's a good starting point?

alpha-dog
02-12-2009, 11:04 PM
Looking forward to seeing your results, Russ. Really interested in the P channel fet setup. If it works well, I could easily replace my FETs I suppose.

Your fet's are easy to change. The current limit comparator is a bit harder
Russ

alpha-dog
02-12-2009, 11:05 PM
We are all curious how you come out with the quad efies alpha. Have you tested adding voltage yet? what's a good starting point?

Start at 150 mvdc on both post and pre cat O2's.
Russ

tomisnt
02-12-2009, 11:12 PM
One of my big fears will be overleaning. I don't have an exaust gage and really don't want to drill and tap one in right now.$$$) I have a laser temp probe that I have been getting a manifold baseline temprature from. I pull off the highway when the engine is warm and quickly shoot the temprature on the exaust manifolds.

I plan to do the same with conservative leaning methods. I am not up on normal exaust tempratures and what is too hot. I know that the manifold surface temprature has to be lower than the real exaust temprature as well.

what is a safe and questionable temprature range?

Painless
02-12-2009, 11:40 PM
One of my big fears will be overleaning. I don't have an exaust gage and really don't want to drill and tap one in right now.$$$) I have a laser temp probe that I have been getting a manifold baseline temprature from. I pull off the highway when the engine is warm and quickly shoot the temprature on the exaust manifolds.

I plan to do the same with conservative leaning methods. I am not up on normal exaust tempratures and what is too hot. I know that the manifold surface temprature has to be lower than the real exaust temprature as well.

what is a safe and questionable temprature range?

Tom,

Your method is not safe, I have an EGT and can tell you that from a full throttle run (which takes my exhaust past 1500-1600 F) the temp on the gauge is back down to normal in seconds.

Also, bare in mind that the exhaust gases won't raise the header temp fast enough for you to see the difference.

Drilling and tapping the exhaust is a lot easier than it sounds, the gauges can be had for $100. An engine rebuild will cost a lot more.

hg2
02-13-2009, 05:52 AM
I started with 150 mv on my 05 ram 5.7 hemi and currently running 300 mv on both pre and post cats with no issues.I've found very little mpg gains (if any)running 150mv up to 375 mv.After all you are compensating for the additional O2 in the exhaust flow using HHO adding the extra voltage.I've also found that periodic reset is necessary because the ecm will catch on to extra voltage and compensate for that.I've found that on the Dodge ram 5.7 that around 300mv is ideal along with the periodic ecm reset because the ecm won't set the P0132 and Po152 codes if you keep the mv no higher than 300

If you go too high or reset code over 325mv your ecm will go to openloop and show codes:

P0132, P0138, P0144, P0152 O2s shorted to voltage.

If you try to overlean your ecm will go to open loop and show codes:

P0171 1/1 fuel system lean
P0174 2/1 fuel system lean

The Dodge ecm will protect from motor damage from overleaning it's a built in failsafe

tomisnt
02-13-2009, 07:06 AM
Hi Painlees:

Who iis a good source for EGTs?

Painless
02-13-2009, 10:05 AM
Hi Painlees:

Who iis a good source for EGTs?

I have this EGT in my truck:

http://www.glowshiftdirect.com/elite-7-color-2200-exhaust-gas-temperature-egt-pyrometer.aspx

This one looks to be pretty good value too:

http://www.kitoautosport.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=4_14_37&products_id=81

Russ.

Painless
02-13-2009, 10:07 AM
I started with 150 mv on my 05 ram 5.7 hemi and currently running 300 mv on both pre and post cats with no issues.I've found very little mpg gains (if any)running 150mv up to 375 mv.After all you are compensating for the additional O2 in the exhaust flow using HHO adding the extra voltage.I've also found that periodic reset is necessary because the ecm will catch on to extra voltage and compensate for that.I've found that on the Dodge ram 5.7 that around 300mv is ideal along with the periodic ecm reset because the ecm won't set the P0132 and Po152 codes if you keep the mv no higher than 300

If you go too high or reset code over 325mv your ecm will go to openloop and show codes:

P0132, P0138, P0144, P0152 O2s shorted to voltage.

If you try to overlean your ecm will go to open loop and show codes:

P0171 1/1 fuel system lean
P0174 2/1 fuel system lean

The Dodge ecm will protect from motor damage from overleaning it's a built in failsafe

hg2,

Have you done any work with the IAT sensor? 10k and down resistance in parallel with it will tell the ECU that the incoming air temp is lower and allow you to lean further.

From the research I've done, I've concluded that the O2's should simply be used to return fuel trims to normal and leaning / limit setting should be done through the IAT and MAP sensors.

Russ.

tomisnt
02-13-2009, 06:35 PM
Thanks Painless:

While we are on the subject, what would be considered a too high, or risky exaust temprature range?

Painless
02-13-2009, 07:16 PM
Thanks Painless:

While we are on the subject, what would be considered a too high, or risky exaust temprature range?

Every engine is different, you need to install the gauge and run it with your engine stock to ascertain baselines. I did the following:

Idle
30 mph
40 mph
50 mph
55 mph
0-70 WOT run from standstill

With these baseline readings, you will then be able to spot any raises at particular road speeds / driving habits.

hg2
02-14-2009, 05:30 AM
hg2,

Have you done any work with the IAT sensor? 10k and down resistance in parallel with it will tell the ECU that the incoming air temp is lower and allow you to lean further.

From the research I've done, I've concluded that the O2's should simply be used to return fuel trims to normal and leaning / limit setting should be done through the IAT and MAP sensors.

Russ.

That' how i have my truck set up now Russ.I have a 10k in parallel on the IAT and also I have a 6.8K on the ECT as well.I keep the map set low just high enough it won't set code(which isn't very high)because I seem to get a 1 mpg better overall this way.

stl_hemi
02-14-2009, 10:52 AM
This was a interesting read.
Made it over here hg2. :)

hg2
02-14-2009, 10:32 PM
This was a interesting read.
Made it over here hg2. :)

Hey STL glad you made it.

Yeah these are some of the mods I was telling you about regarding the way your mpg gains were dwindling and how to correct it on your Ram Hemi.

Give me a call tomorrow if you get a chance.

stl_hemi
02-15-2009, 10:44 AM
hg2 I can't go too far into the 200mv range though. I already had my LT fuel trims good to go at 0% at around 180mv.

My rig isn't stock as far as intake and exhaust go. Borla exhaust, JBA headers and a Air Ram intake. My egt's are were I need them aswell as what I monitor on my wideband. Only way I'm going to get further into the 20+mpg range hwy is if I add more hydroxy or dump my 4.10's for 4.56 gears. Last check I was in the 5-6lpm range before I shut the setup down for the winter.
Also remember I'm rolling around with 5" of lift on 35's on a 2500. 800-1000lbs heavier than a 1500.
I'll be firing it back up March 1st. Then I get to relearn after a 2 1/2 month shut down.

I really want to know what good a pwm would even do for me. I know little to nothing about what they are.

tomisnt
02-15-2009, 11:02 AM
Hi Russ:

One thought, when your cell was operating, did you ever notice excessive tempratures without first setting codes? I am curious whether the Dodge will allow that amount of leaning without settiing codes?

I still think the egt is a wise investment, but I wonder if the stock computer will allow that sort of leaning.

stl_hemi
02-15-2009, 01:01 PM
The Ram ECM will go in a Limp home mode till the issue is resolved. The ECM won't allow you to lean out the A/F too extream. You'd have to literally rewrite the ecm program via SCT or Diablo to make it go any further than what the efie's do to take the o2's info to the ecm. Even then if you really want to bypass the efie's a true tune from SCT of Diablo would be the way to go. No messing with efie's. The ECM would make the adjustments via what is programed.

If money permit's this year this is the route I will be going. Dumping the efie's and the stupid map enhancer for a dual tune via sct. One for stock. One for hho and one for when I go wheeling in the rig for all out performance offroad.

alpha-dog
02-15-2009, 05:19 PM
The Ram ECM will go in a Limp home mode till the issue is resolved. The ECM won't allow you to lean out the A/F too extream. You'd have to literally rewrite the ecm program via SCT or Diablo to make it go any further than what the efie's do to take the o2's info to the ecm. Even then if you really want to bypass the efie's a true tune from SCT of Diablo would be the way to go. No messing with efie's. The ECM would make the adjustments via what is programed.

If money permit's this year this is the route I will be going. Dumping the efie's and the stupid map enhancer for a dual tune via sct. One for stock. One for hho and one for when I go wheeling in the rig for all out performance offroad.

Split second has a lot of cool stuff for your hemi. You should check them out.
Russ

Painless
02-15-2009, 06:06 PM
This is one point where I feel I am at a disadvantage, from what I've seen nobody offers a tuner for the 2006 4.7.

alpha-dog
02-15-2009, 06:20 PM
This is one point where I feel I am at a disadvantage, from what I've seen nobody offers a tuner for the 2006 4.7.

take a look at split seconds stuff, they have a cam tuner for 2006 dodge v8 a air/fuel adjuster and even something like you want to dynamically adjust the MAP.

stl_hemi
02-15-2009, 10:55 PM
Split second has a lot of cool stuff for your hemi. You should check them out.
Russ

All of their stuff is a piggyback that you have to hardwire into the ecm.
And you can only do so much with that style.
I'd rather data log it. Send the file to a compatent tuner have them build the file and then I can upload it. I'm not into messing with a PC to do my own tune and damaging the motor or transmission. The Ram ecm is tied into the transmission aswell as motor from 04 up.

SCT has a tuner for the 4.7L.

stl_hemi
02-15-2009, 10:57 PM
I'm sure it's a good idea for some people. And I did look at their stuff at one time but it's just not for me. Just my 2cents

hg2
02-16-2009, 04:41 AM
The majority of the tuners on the market can only go about 10% outside the set parameters and most of them can barely do that.

You don't gain very much for what you pay for them.

redneck323
02-16-2009, 08:06 PM
Painless,
http://www.superchips.com/products.php?search_text=3950
Check it out i dont know much about this one never seen it but if you cant get a supplier i can most likely get it through my distributor.

alpha-dog
02-16-2009, 08:21 PM
All of their stuff is a piggyback that you have to hardwire into the ecm.
And you can only do so much with that style.
I'd rather data log it. Send the file to a compatent tuner have them build the file and then I can upload it. I'm not into messing with a PC to do my own tune and damaging the motor or transmission. The Ram ecm is tied into the transmission aswell as motor from 04 up.

SCT has a tuner for the 4.7L.

Well I'm going to use the PSC1-023. I may even remove my EFIE's, I don't know. All I care about is getting results.
Good to see you here Paul.
Russ

redneck323
02-16-2009, 08:46 PM
LOL OK maybee i was way off with that one after looking at what you all were talking about but you can get some good gains with those pre programmed tuners

Painless
02-16-2009, 10:32 PM
Painless,
http://www.superchips.com/products.php?search_text=3950
Check it out i dont know much about this one never seen it but if you cant get a supplier i can most likely get it through my distributor.

Damn, those things are expensive. From what I've seen though it just looks like all you can do is upload their custom tunes. What we need is a way to tweak things, one by one.

I'm beginning to think that the best thing we can do is either use smaller injectors or lower the fuel rail pressure. Then, we just need to mod the o2 signal so the ECU doesn't find out what we did.

Russ.

redneck323
02-17-2009, 09:16 AM
i dont know about the switch time on them but there are O2 simulators made for the performance industy that are used on the rear o2's (which measure catalyst effiency on most vehicles thats all they do to my knowledge )my thought is possibly using o2 simulators on the front o2' which are the fuel metering o2's (if the response time is fast enough it would make the computer think everything is ok) i am not sure if the pcm would catch the fact that they arent going full rich under WOT or lean on decel. I havnt done any research on this. My thought was to have a fixed o2 reading and then obviously with a wideband read out maintain the proper fuel flow with a fully adjustable fuel line regulator which are avail. through summit or jegs. The only thing that scares me is the possiblity of instances where it may go lean quickly as it takes no time to burn valves up. Just a thought probably be best tryed on a beater of course LOL. I dont know the programming of the ecms but i would think that they may possibly maintain a fairly safe mixture if monitored. I dont know if they have simulators for widebands or not though with out looking as im not familiar with the wideband operation. This may be way off kilter and dangerous trying to do away with them all together but its a thought.

Painless
02-17-2009, 09:24 AM
Redneck,

I think you're definitely on the right track. The fuel line regulator would allow the a/f to be adjusted without the ECU making fuel trims, I feel this is the key.

With this in place, a standard EFIE setup to keep the fuel trims at normal levels (would require a scan tool to monitor) would be ideal and provide protection too. An EGT would be the best protection in addition to this.

Russ.

redneck323
02-17-2009, 12:20 PM
What about this I was looking at www.o2simulator.com they have a thermocoupler that gave me an idea. I am at work so didnt do anymore than a few min. of research and maybe this is what they are doing. What would happen if we used a timer circuit/o2 simulator that was tied into an EGT sensor for its mixture adjutments rather than oxygen content use the actual exhaust temp for the adjustment this may be tough though do to naturally increase temps with load... just throwing out some swirling thoughts in my head. I think this would requir further computer integration unfortunatly.

stl_hemi
02-18-2009, 07:21 PM
Wouldn't putting a smaller injector and reducing rail psi be damaging? Your going to starve the motor of fuel. Creat Knock Retard and the end result is a damaged piston and head?

redneck323
02-19-2009, 08:31 AM
it would depend on how much you do reduce the fuel flow in relationship in to your HHO i would think the idea would be to maintain a safe stoichiometric mixture not leaning to unsafe mixtures. Since vehicles are all different o2 simulators would eliminate the issues with fuel trim limitations since the pcm would know no difference. We would have to ensure proper mixture with a A/F gauge and/or EGT gauge kinda risky but if taken in small cautious steps may be possible. I dont see a need to decrease injector size and reduce pressure just reducing pressure would be sufficient but fuel rail pressure sensor signal would have to be modified as well for those who have them.

harabsnyder
03-15-2009, 10:58 AM
Only way I'm going to get further into the 20+mpg range hwy is if I add more hydroxy or dump my 4.10's for 4.56 gears.

I thought that changing 4.10 for 4.56 would make FE worse. Higher the number, the higher the engine revs at the same speed, EX. 1st gear vs 5th.

Painless
03-15-2009, 02:14 PM
From the dodge forums, it seems that a lot of guys are getting mpg gains from the 4.56 gears. I need to check which ones mine has (I used to sell them but can't remember). I'm also wondering how easy it is to change them? My 4.7 has an LSD so I hope changing them won't effect that?

Other guys are reporting better MPG by changing the transmission control module for one from a jeep grand cherokee.

stl_hemi
03-20-2009, 11:21 AM
Because the Hemi likes to live between 1800-2100rpms on the hwy. A MDS Hemi with 4.56 gears and stock as a rock with that setup get's low 20's hwy. It's been proven alot.