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JonDoh
09-14-2008, 11:58 PM
until now.....
the most plates I've use in a cell was 8 plates configured +nn--nn+
Works flawlessly.... cool.... low amps..... but not a big producer.

so....... I just got hold of 24 plates & have no idea how to configure this.
I don't want to do +-+-+- etc b/c it pulls way too much current & gets too hot..... any successful suggestions from those who have experimented already.... I could possibly go up to 30 plates... please let me know....

Q-Hack!
09-15-2008, 01:45 AM
If you are planning on running it in your car and using either KOH or NaOH then use a 21 plate configuration. +NNNN-NNNN+NNNN-NNNN+ This will give yo a 2.4 to 2.7 voltage drop across each cell.

mytoyotasucks
09-15-2008, 11:45 AM
If you are planning on running it in your car and using either KOH or NaOH then use a 21 plate configuration. +NNNN-NNNN+NNNN-NNNN+ This will give yo a 2.4 to 2.7 voltage drop across each cell.

I hate to say anything contrary to what u are saying, but with the testing i have done shows that its better to have more negative plates.

I would go -NNNN+NNNN-NNNN+NNNN-.

Please correct me if im wrong, but i get better production with more negatives.

Q-Hack!
09-15-2008, 12:57 PM
I hate to say anything contrary to what u are saying, but with the testing i have done shows that its better to have more negative plates.

I would go -NNNN+NNNN-NNNN+NNNN-.

Please correct me if im wrong, but i get better production with more negatives.

Either way, I tried both and didn't notice any difference in production levels or cell efficiency . YMMV

JonDoh
09-15-2008, 05:39 PM
Hmmmm???

Which plate produces the HHO gas?

+ or -?

Does the neutral produce anything but used as a barrier for current flow?

Since my current configuration is +nn--nn+

Would it work as +nn--nn++nn--nn++nn--nn+??

Or should I just make 3 seperate units?

The plates have tabs @ the ends so to make them neutral I have to cut the tabs.... I want to have it right the first time from the advice from experimenters that have tried whichever configuration.

Tremorfalcon
09-15-2008, 08:44 PM
The negative plate produces the hydrogen while the oxygen is produced by the positive plates.

I wonder about neutral plates, if they are used as a barrier to current flow then wouldn't they also cause voltage drop and should be calculated into the "number of plates equation"? So with 12 volts wouldn't you only use 6 plates, even with neutrals, such as +NNNN-?

Stevo
09-15-2008, 11:30 PM
Hmmmm???

Which plate produces the HHO gas?

+ or -?

Does the neutral produce anything but used as a barrier for current flow?

Since my current configuration is +nn--nn+

Would it work as +nn--nn++nn--nn++nn--nn+??

Or should I just make 3 seperate units?

The plates have tabs @ the ends so to make them neutral I have to cut the tabs.... I want to have it right the first time from the advice from experimenters that have tried whichever configuration.

Here my config suggestion:

"|" = non-conductive spacer plate.

+nnnnn-|+nnnnn-|+nnnnn-

So, then you will have (3) 6 cell units in one. Just be sure to wrap or seal the cell properly. Neutrals divide the voltage while closer gapping helps current.

mytoyotasucks
09-16-2008, 02:22 AM
Here my config suggestion:

"|" = non-conductive spacer plate.

+nnnnn-|+nnnnn-|+nnnnn-

So, then you will have (3) 6 cell units in one. Just be sure to wrap or seal the cell properly. Neutrals divide the voltage while closer gapping helps current.

why do u want so many nuetrals??

Stevo
09-16-2008, 09:45 AM
why do u want so many nuetrals??

Cause the system is 12V and each division group creates 6 cells, which means 2V across cells. Less heat.

wljohns
09-16-2008, 10:13 AM
YES neutrals produce hho. Depending on your configuration. They polarize inside the electrolyte.

Q-Hack!
09-16-2008, 01:04 PM
The negative plate produces the hydrogen while the oxygen is produced by the positive plates.

I wonder about neutral plates, if they are used as a barrier to current flow then wouldn't they also cause voltage drop and should be calculated into the "number of plates equation"? So with 12 volts wouldn't you only use 6 plates, even with neutrals, such as +NNNN-?

It isn't the plates per se that drop the voltage, its the space in between. In a +NNNN- configuration you have 5 spaces. 12 volts divided by 5 spaces is 2.4 volts per plate. If you put the positive lead of a multimeter on the + plate and put the negitive lead on each of the other plates in turn you will see the voltage drop talked about.

ps. If you try this make sure your electrolyte is below the top of the plates. Otherwise you are just measuring the voltage of the electrolyte itself which could be anything between 0-12v.

JonDoh
09-17-2008, 11:45 AM
So basically I don't need 24 plates???

Using 6 plates can produce just as much HHO gas as 24 plates by adjustng the electrolyte solution???

DieselBurps
09-17-2008, 01:34 PM
Cause the system is 12V and each division group creates 6 cells, which means 2V across cells. Less heat.
Isn't the alternator kicking out closer to 14v for charging purposes? Therefore an extra plate above what you are recommending makes more sense when the vehicle is running...?

countryboy18
09-17-2008, 02:36 PM
so there is a limit on how many plates can be used in a 12v system with one + and one -. right? the amps that the cell is pulling is controled by the amount of NaOH or KOH in the cell. more amp = more HHO production.

Q-Hack!
09-18-2008, 01:24 AM
JohnDoh: You should still use as many plates as you can in your cell. The more surface area you can provide the better the production.

DieselBurps: You are correct. It is better to have an extra neutral if your vehicle is producing more than 12v. Mine for instance runs at about 13.5V and so I run a +NNNNN-NNNNN+NNNNN-NNNNN+ setup. This puts my voltage between plates at about 1.9v

countryboy18: Yes, the absolute minimum voltage required to get NaOH to produce is 1.69v. In a 12v system this would mean you would have 6 neutrals between your + and -. However, this is not the most efficient generator design. Most people find that there greatest efficiency is at about 2.0v - 2.4v . any more than that and you are wasting voltage generating heat.

JonDoh
09-18-2008, 10:09 AM
^^^^ The production(bubbles) comes from the plates and with more suface helps power distribution & keeps heat low.... ok... makes sense now.

Alright.... I'll copy your config Q-hack with 25 plates :)

Awesome guys!! I'm getting MO ed U ma kated each day :D

ThX

Questions for Q-Hack:
1) How many LPMs are you producing?

2) What is your electrolyte mixture?

3) Are you using a PWM?

4) What is your Amp draw?

countryboy18
09-18-2008, 04:54 PM
is the voltage drop affected by the plate spacing? or the amount of NaOH in the cell? if i under stand you right the best config is +NNNNNN-. that is 7 spaces for HHO production. for 2V across each plate it would have to have 14V supplied. +NNNNN- is 6 spaces and 12V for 2V each plate.
RIGHT?

Q-Hack!
09-18-2008, 09:26 PM
^^^^ The production(bubbles) comes from the plates and with more suface helps power distribution & keeps heat low.... ok... makes sense now.

Alright.... I'll copy your config Q-hack with 25 plates :)

Awesome guys!! I'm getting MO ed U ma kated each day :D

ThX

Questions for Q-Hack:
1) How many LPMs are you producing?

2) What is your electrolyte mixture?

3) Are you using a PWM?

4) What is your Amp draw?


Answers to questions:

1) 750ml cold ~ 1LPM once it warms up to operating temps (130 degrees F)

2) I don't remember exactly... I heated my distilled water up to 130F and then started adding NaOH until I hit 18 amps. I think it is about 3-4 tsp in about 1/2 gallon of distilled water.

3) No PWM at this time. I have played with them with varying amounts of failure. I am thinking about building ridelong's design. (see his thread http://www.hhoforums.com/showthread.php?t=917) So far my best solution to heat is good generator design.

4) about 15 amps cold; 18-19 hot.

Mind you I copied ZeroFossilFuel's VSPB cell design to the letter.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBf2WdBx3tE

countryboy18: I am not convinced that plate spacing matters all that much. Some of my early designs had as much as 3/8 inch spacing and they worked ok. My current VSPB cell used zip ties to set the spacing and then removed once the marine sealant dried.

The NaOH doesn't affect the voltage drop but it does affect the current in the cell. Too much current will also heat the cell up beyond what it can handle. Hence the reason I start with the heated water and slowly add NaOH until I get the current I am looking for. I have run the cell for hours at a time now and haven't overheated yet.

Kobudoman
09-19-2008, 11:03 PM
I was under the impression that the nutral plates actualy worked as if one side was posative and the other were negative. so they would produce oxy on one side and hyro on the other. Is this correct?

countryboy18
09-19-2008, 11:12 PM
Yes You Are Right!!!

H2OPWR
09-20-2008, 01:29 AM
Keep in mind that the - plates produce hydrogen and the + plates produce oxygen. When you are mesuring the output of your cell you do not know what the gas is. More negative plates is better by far.

mytoyotasucks
09-20-2008, 01:56 AM
Keep in mind that the - plates produce hydrogen and the + plates produce oxygen. When you are mesuring the output of your cell you do not know what the gas is. More negative plates is better by far.


this is what ive been saying and doing, and some on this site says it doesnt matter. i also find it produces more.

JonDoh
09-21-2008, 10:49 AM
ok.... I havn't figured out how you guys figure out the voltage drop per plate... so.... how many volts per plate in these configurations???

1) -nnnn++nnnn--nnnn++nnnn-

2) -nn+ +nn- -nn+ +nn- -nn+ +nn-

Both configs are 24 plates. #2 the blank space indicates a larger gap but connected with an SS nut.

DaneDHorstead
09-21-2008, 01:48 PM
until now.....
the most plates I've use in a cell was 8 plates configured +nn--nn+
Works flawlessly.... cool.... low amps..... but not a big producer.

so....... I just got hold of 24 plates & have no idea how to configure this.
I don't want to do +-+-+- etc b/c it pulls way too much current & gets too hot..... any successful suggestions from those who have experimented already.... I could possibly go up to 30 plates... please let me know....
If I were you, (and I have already done exactly this).........

I would set up three separate gens -NNNNN+ wired in paralell, but with separate breakers, and you should end up with an approximate 3 - 3.5 LPM (combined output) if your plates are anywhere near 12 sq in, per side (mine are 4.5 by 3, with pole plates slightly higher, for connections.)

DaneDHorstead
09-21-2008, 02:01 PM
why do u want so many nuetrals??
mytoyotasucks;

He uses the number of neutrals to cut heat, and divide voltage drop to 2 volts per gap, or less.

And he is correct about closer gaping, to increase production.

Stan Myers, as well as Dave Lawton, both, tell us that the ideal plate gap is 0.045" which is an approximate 1.1 mm (1.1 mm is 0.0435")

I use the 1,1 mm gap, and get very good production (1.19 to 1,23 LPM, from each of three gens.

DaneDHorstead
09-21-2008, 03:16 PM
^^^^ The production(bubbles) comes from the plates and with more suface helps power distribution & keeps heat low.... ok... makes sense now.

Alright.... I'll copy your config Q-hack with 25 plates :)

Awesome guys!! I'm getting MO ed U ma kated each day :D

ThX

Questions for Q-Hack:
1) How many LPMs are you producing?

2) What is your electrolyte mixture?

3) Are you using a PWM?

4) What is your Amp draw?
John Doe;

I think you are getting a grasp on it, but I also think you are a little lost, in the definition of a cell.

What is generally shown as +NNNNN-NNNNN+ is in actuality two cells, in one canister, or bath. The voltage drop, is divided between the number of gaps between "each positive, and each negative". The above symbols show a common negative, the negative pole has zero volts, as any voltage that might have been present is dissipated to ground. But in fact it is two cells, in one bath (or it would also be in a dry cell, set up).

"Cell" is a word that is bantered about, way too loosely!

It is used to describe the generator as a whole, the gap between plates, and the plate configuration, between a positive and a negative pole, regardless if neutrals are used, or not!

There are 12 volts in (if bench tested from a battery, or a charger), or an approximate 14 volts, if an alternator is present. Testing at a bench with 12 volts, can sometimes not provide enough current, to produce, but the extra 2 volts gained from the alternator can make a difference. Although you are better of to build a cell design that produces with 12 volts, but will put out a little more heat with 14 volt input.

Ideally, you need volt drop to be as close as possible to 2 volts, per gap, but not under 1.5 volts, as all production, would be lost.

The division of those volts (work), is equally spread from full voltage (input), to zero volts at the negative pole. Thus a three plate -N+, would drop 14 v to 7 v, to 0 v (a seven volt drop per gap). this would get very hot, very quickly, as any voltage drop over 2 volts, goes to wasted heat (not to production).

A seven gap 14 (+) 12 10 8 6 4 2 0(-) would ideally drop 2 volts per gap, but most folks prefer a six gap (or slightly less).

In the above display, numbers 12 to 2 represent neutral plates.

Gap is essential to production, closser gap is better, but it produces more heat. Neutral plates use magnetic induction (EMF), and the closer you hold magnets to each other (but not touching), the more they react to each other (attaracting, and repelling)

I underline "and", because there is no end to the line of people that will tell you, the cathode plates (negative sides) do nothing for production. But plain and simple, they are full of crap!

Hydrogen is "repulsed" at the negative (cathode) side, or cathode pole plate.

Folks also will tell you that the positive pole produces oxygen (and to some small degree they are correct). In fact, oxygen is released (again through repulsion), at the positive pole. But in fact oxygen is a positively charged atom, which by laws of physics, repells from a positive pole. (opposites attract, likes repell).

But, because oxygen is given off at the positive pole, most people don't understand that it is a repullsed action (or do they care, as long as they get HHO)

Metal (steel) is attracted to the positive side of a magnet, and the negative side of the same magnet is ignorred, but take two negative sides of a magnet, and force them together.

It is that very principle, that lifts a monorail train from the track, and allows it to be moved with even the slightest of side pressure. (just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it is not working).

That being said, I would again have you look at +NNNNN-NNNNN+, and say that you have been told to use more negatives, than positives. which is perhaps theoreticly true, but is also negated in the fact that the hydrogen atom is 1/16 the size of the oxygen, and even at the 2:1 ratio, there only needs to be 1/8 the surface area for hydrogen to repell from.

Further, I believe I read where some one said you don't want more oxygen atoms, than hydrogen atoms.

Anyway you look at it, removing one atom from water (regardless of which one, it is), automaticly releases the other two atoms, as well!

Water, only has one composition, 2 parts hydrogen, and one part oxygen. Release any one of the three, and the water molecule, is dissassotiated!


Note:

You will see many people report better production with lower concentrations of KOH, or NaOH, even as low as 1 tsp per gallon distilled.

JonDoh
09-22-2008, 04:00 AM
John Doe;

What is generally shown as +NNNNN-NNNNN+ is in actuality two cells, in one canister, or bath.

Dane.... Thanks for the info.... I've gotten educated by what you have written.....

I tried that config last nite since it's an easy one to do.... it totally SUX!
It barely made bubbles! Lucky if I got .01 LPM I think too many Neutrals.
I use the same electrolyte from my curent config (+nn--nn+) which is pushing bout 1 LPM @ 15amps

countryboy18
09-22-2008, 04:19 PM
if some one clames 1 lpm at 15 amps they could have a great cell with no heat just production with the right # of plates or they could have a cell that runes very hot and uses the wrong # of plates. right?

mytoyotasucks
09-22-2008, 05:57 PM
if some one clames 1 lpm at 15 amps they could have a great cell with no heat just production with the right # of plates or they could have a cell that runes very hot and uses the wrong # of plates. right?

yes so far right, but u are going to have some heat any way.

right noe i am producing 1.2 LPM at 18 - 21 amps and a lot of heat - 145 deg F

countryboy18
09-22-2008, 10:09 PM
is the only way to get away from creating heat is to add N plates? so you end up with 2v at each cell.

mytoyotasucks
09-22-2008, 11:30 PM
is the only way to get away from creating heat is to add N plates? so you end up with 2v at each cell.


u can always run lower amps.

but i ran -n+n- and got more heat but way more production.

im still working on mine.

ShowMeHHO
10-11-2008, 11:48 PM
Answers to questions:

1) 750ml cold ~ 1LPM once it warms up to operating temps (130 degrees F)

2) I don't remember exactly... I heated my distilled water up to 130F and then started adding NaOH until I hit 18 amps. I think it is about 3-4 tsp in about 1/2 gallon of distilled water.

3) No PWM at this time. I have played with them with varying amounts of failure. I am thinking about building ridelong's design. (see his thread http://www.hhoforums.com/showthread.php?t=917) So far my best solution to heat is good generator design.

4) about 15 amps cold; 18-19 hot.

Mind you I copied ZeroFossilFuel's VSPB cell design to the letter.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBf2WdBx3tE

countryboy18: I am not convinced that plate spacing matters all that much. Some of my early designs had as much as 3/8 inch spacing and they worked ok. My current VSPB cell used zip ties to set the spacing and then removed once the marine sealant dried.

The NaOH doesn't affect the voltage drop but it does affect the current in the cell. Too much current will also heat the cell up beyond what it can handle. Hence the reason I start with the heated water and slowly add NaOH until I get the current I am looking for. I have run the cell for hours at a time now and haven't overheated yet.

Do you have your cell wraped ?

josejosecr
10-20-2008, 09:40 PM
I have 8 plates 2" X 6" and 7 of 1/4" (2" x 2")spacers, can anybody tell me if there is any video that can help me to do the connection of +, - and N ?
I need to know how to do the configuration of +NN-+NN-.
Tks

mytoyotasucks
10-21-2008, 03:24 PM
I have 8 plates 2" X 6" and 7 of 1/4" (2" x 2")spacers, can anybody tell me if there is any video that can help me to do the connection of +, - and N ?
I need to know how to do the configuration of +NN-+NN-.
Tks

u would better to -NN++NN-
and N's arnt wired, just +'s -'s are.

and it would work better +NNNNN-

josejosecr
10-22-2008, 10:15 PM
Thanks for your prompt response. I did it as you suggested and is working fine, Now i am preparing 2 more sets. Let see how all connected in series work.

mytoyotasucks
10-22-2008, 10:30 PM
Thanks for your prompt response. I did it as you suggested and is working fine, Now i am preparing 2 more sets. Let see how all connected in series work.

I put two in a parallel and didnt work that great.

U dont want to put that cell design (+NNNNN-), u would be running the cells at to low of volts.

so far my best cell is +NNN-, still trying to make others work.

dont forget to wrap ur cells.

see here for wraping http://www.hhoforums.com/showthread.php?t=1077

sima.z
05-21-2009, 10:59 PM
John Doe;

I think you are getting a grasp on it, but I also think you are a little lost, in the definition of a cell.

What is generally shown as +NNNNN-NNNNN+ is in actuality two cells, in one canister, or bath. The voltage drop, is divided between the number of gaps between "each positive, and each negative". The above symbols show a common negative, the negative pole has zero volts, as any voltage that might have been present is dissipated to ground. But in fact it is two cells, in one bath (or it would also be in a dry cell, set up).

"Cell" is a word that is bantered about, way too loosely!

It is used to describe the generator as a whole, the gap between plates, and the plate configuration, between a positive and a negative pole, regardless if neutrals are used, or not!

There are 12 volts in (if bench tested from a battery, or a charger), or an approximate 14 volts, if an alternator is present. Testing at a bench with 12 volts, can sometimes not provide enough current, to produce, but the extra 2 volts gained from the alternator can make a difference. Although you are better of to build a cell design that produces with 12 volts, but will put out a little more heat with 14 volt input.

Ideally, you need volt drop to be as close as possible to 2 volts, per gap, but not under 1.5 volts, as all production, would be lost.

The division of those volts (work), is equally spread from full voltage (input), to zero volts at the negative pole. Thus a three plate -N+, would drop 14 v to 7 v, to 0 v (a seven volt drop per gap). this would get very hot, very quickly, as any voltage drop over 2 volts, goes to wasted heat (not to production).

A seven gap 14 (+) 12 10 8 6 4 2 0(-) would ideally drop 2 volts per gap, but most folks prefer a six gap (or slightly less).

In the above display, numbers 12 to 2 represent neutral plates.

Gap is essential to production, closser gap is better, but it produces more heat. Neutral plates use magnetic induction (EMF), and the closer you hold magnets to each other (but not touching), the more they react to each other (attaracting, and repelling)

I underline "and", because there is no end to the line of people that will tell you, the cathode plates (negative sides) do nothing for production. But plain and simple, they are full of crap!

Hydrogen is "repulsed" at the negative (cathode) side, or cathode pole plate.

Folks also will tell you that the positive pole produces oxygen (and to some small degree they are correct). In fact, oxygen is released (again through repulsion), at the positive pole. But in fact oxygen is a positively charged atom, which by laws of physics, repells from a positive pole. (opposites attract, likes repell).

But, because oxygen is given off at the positive pole, most people don't understand that it is a repullsed action (or do they care, as long as they get HHO)

Metal (steel) is attracted to the positive side of a magnet, and the negative side of the same magnet is ignorred, but take two negative sides of a magnet, and force them together.

It is that very principle, that lifts a monorail train from the track, and allows it to be moved with even the slightest of side pressure. (just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it is not working).

That being said, I would again have you look at +NNNNN-NNNNN+, and say that you have been told to use more negatives, than positives. which is perhaps theoreticly true, but is also negated in the fact that the hydrogen atom is 1/16 the size of the oxygen, and even at the 2:1 ratio, there only needs to be 1/8 the surface area for hydrogen to repell from.

Further, I believe I read where some one said you don't want more oxygen atoms, than hydrogen atoms.

Anyway you look at it, removing one atom from water (regardless of which one, it is), automaticly releases the other two atoms, as well!

Water, only has one composition, 2 parts hydrogen, and one part oxygen. Release any one of the three, and the water molecule, is dissassotiated!


Note:

You will see many people report better production with lower concentrations of KOH, or NaOH, even as low as 1 tsp per gallon distilled.

Great reply for all of us that in the learning process, .
so please what do you think of my configuration??
-NNN+NNN- , I use 304 not 316 ss 5x5" plates (imposible to find 316 in this country in S.A.)
with 1/8 gap within cell (Dry cell), and I get 1/2 LPM at 8-10 amps, low heat

I will apreciate your advise thanks
sima.z@hotmail.com

mike915
08-02-2010, 10:32 PM
If I were you, (and I have already done exactly this).........

I would set up three separate gens -NNNNN+ wired in paralell, but with separate breakers, and you should end up with an approximate 3 - 3.5 LPM (combined output) if your plates are anywhere near 12 sq in, per side (mine are 4.5 by 3, with pole plates slightly higher, for connections.)

What do you mean whit separate breakers??how?
could you explain me please??

lhazleton
08-03-2010, 05:54 PM
Ben,
Nice diagram. Very clear and easy to understand!
This should help the newbs quite a bit.

H20-HHO
02-26-2011, 10:28 AM
John Doe;

I think you are getting a grasp on it, but I also think you are a little lost, in the definition of a cell.

What is generally shown as +NNNNN-NNNNN+ is in actuality two cells, in one canister, or bath. The voltage drop, is divided between the number of gaps between "each positive, and each negative". The above symbols show a common negative, the negative pole has zero volts, as any voltage that might have been present is dissipated to ground. But in fact it is two cells, in one bath (or it would also be in a dry cell, set up).

"Cell" is a word that is bantered about, way too loosely!

It is used to describe the generator as a whole, the gap between plates, and the plate configuration, between a positive and a negative pole, regardless if neutrals are used, or not!

There are 12 volts in (if bench tested from a battery, or a charger), or an approximate 14 volts, if an alternator is present. Testing at a bench with 12 volts, can sometimes not provide enough current, to produce, but the extra 2 volts gained from the alternator can make a difference. Although you are better of to build a cell design that produces with 12 volts, but will put out a little more heat with 14 volt input.

Ideally, you need volt drop to be as close as possible to 2 volts, per gap, but not under 1.5 volts, as all production, would be lost.

The division of those volts (work), is equally spread from full voltage (input), to zero volts at the negative pole. Thus a three plate -N+, would drop 14 v to 7 v, to 0 v (a seven volt drop per gap). this would get very hot, very quickly, as any voltage drop over 2 volts, goes to wasted heat (not to production).

A seven gap 14 (+) 12 10 8 6 4 2 0(-) would ideally drop 2 volts per gap, but most folks prefer a six gap (or slightly less).

In the above display, numbers 12 to 2 represent neutral plates.

Gap is essential to production, closser gap is better, but it produces more heat. Neutral plates use magnetic induction (EMF), and the closer you hold magnets to each other (but not touching), the more they react to each other (attaracting, and repelling)

I underline "and", because there is no end to the line of people that will tell you, the cathode plates (negative sides) do nothing for production. But plain and simple, they are full of crap!

Hydrogen is "repulsed" at the negative (cathode) side, or cathode pole plate.

Folks also will tell you that the positive pole produces oxygen (and to some small degree they are correct). In fact, oxygen is released (again through repulsion), at the positive pole. But in fact oxygen is a positively charged atom, which by laws of physics, repells from a positive pole. (opposites attract, likes repell).

But, because oxygen is given off at the positive pole, most people don't understand that it is a repullsed action (or do they care, as long as they get HHO)

Metal (steel) is attracted to the positive side of a magnet, and the negative side of the same magnet is ignorred, but take two negative sides of a magnet, and force them together.

It is that very principle, that lifts a monorail train from the track, and allows it to be moved with even the slightest of side pressure. (just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it is not working).

That being said, I would again have you look at +NNNNN-NNNNN+, and say that you have been told to use more negatives, than positives. which is perhaps theoreticly true, but is also negated in the fact that the hydrogen atom is 1/16 the size of the oxygen, and even at the 2:1 ratio, there only needs to be 1/8 the surface area for hydrogen to repell from.

Further, I believe I read where some one said you don't want more oxygen atoms, than hydrogen atoms.

Anyway you look at it, removing one atom from water (regardless of which one, it is), automaticly releases the other two atoms, as well!

Water, only has one composition, 2 parts hydrogen, and one part oxygen. Release any one of the three, and the water molecule, is dissassotiated!


Note:

You will see many people report better production with lower concentrations of KOH, or NaOH, even as low as 1 tsp per gallon distilled.
Hi all! I have built 3 wet cell units, the first was +nn nn nn nn- with 304 ss plates and dabbled with vinegar,baking soda and caustic soda (seperately that is) in a pvc pipe canister.Result= no real output but pvc softened and collapsed..(2) +nnnnnnn-nnnnnnn+ again with pvc canister which melted again(fool lol) tought it was the cells that did it but it was the enguine temp.(3)+nnnnnnn-nnnnnnn+ with a 2.5ltr acrylic container bath and it was making a decent amount of hho but shortly after I realised I may as well have put it in a strainer as the only thing making the bubbles in the bubbler was the oxygen, the hydrogen was sneaking out the back door lol. The lesson I have learned is Drycell all the way.Now working on a drycell -nnnnnnn+nnnnnnn- 3mm butyl with EPMD 200x200x10mm wide seals,316 ss 2mm thick 200x200mm plates..pwm 150amp continious auto sencing an a 100amp continious relay..what do ye think as I will have it built in two weeks???

lhazleton
02-26-2011, 12:08 PM
By running 8 cells (7 bi-polar) per stack, your voltage per gap will only be 1.725, if the reactor is receiving a true 13.8 continuous volts.
You'd be better off using only 5 or 6 bi-polars per stack.

Macca
03-07-2011, 05:10 AM
Hi guys,
I have been thinking outside the box here,

What about corrugated plates to maximize surface area, or even lots of negative Pins interwoven with lots of positive pins instead of plates to get some mad multi directional electrolysis going.

Also could try lots of tubes alternating positive and negative getting larger and larger.

I might be going down a dead end here but has anyone tried something other than plates?

linkintiger
03-26-2011, 05:31 PM
if bigger plate gives less resistance why all plates have to be same size if the negative plates produce hydrogen will be better to make positive plates 2 times smaller then negatives? then we will have 2 times more hho then oxygen.I don't know maybe connect small 12v surge water pump for better fluid flow? just the idea

smallfish
03-31-2011, 05:48 PM
The NaOH doesn't affect the voltage drop but it does affect the current in the cell. Too much current will also heat the cell up beyond what it can handle.