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View Full Version : Hho Corolla Completed!!!!!



plumabob
06-23-2008, 04:45 PM
OK Hear it is. All finished and driven for 4-5 hours. Draw is about 22 amps max after about 2-3 hours driving. Measures max case temp is 160 degrees so far. Pulling 13.10 volts with no dropoff. First thing I noticed is a feeling of more power with the lightest touch of the gas pedal. I just filled up this morning now the real test will come. My Home Depot waterproof electrical case is working beautifully and I'm making lots of HHO in the bubbler.

spob
06-23-2008, 04:57 PM
What is your plate arrangment?

plumabob
06-23-2008, 05:49 PM
+nnnn-nnnn+

spob
06-23-2008, 07:25 PM
Looks like a very nice clean install. What year is your Corrola? Have you done anything else like an EFIE or O2 sensor extender?

Can't wait to see what your gains are.

plumabob
06-23-2008, 10:06 PM
It's a 1997, I'm trying an O2 extender first. If my results aren't what I'm expecting then I guess I'll have to try an EFIE. Right now I would like to think that I'm seeing an improvement in MPG but I will not know for sure until I use up more of this tank full. If all works well I want to build one for my '97 Econoline E-250 V8. 11 mpg sucks :p:p:p

spob
06-24-2008, 01:10 PM
I hear you. I have a 2001 F250 with the V10. Gas guzzler! But I have never once complained about the power it generates for towing.

gasmakr
06-24-2008, 01:43 PM
Great job.....very clean arrangement...When you first started and ran the system did you get any black smoke out of the tailpipe?:)

plumabob
06-24-2008, 02:50 PM
No black smoke only water vapor. My engine light has just come on, code 0133 so I have to see what thats all about before I continue with my testing. I am using an O2 extender so I' going to assume that it has something to do with that. I'll post when I know better.

Bob

plumabob
06-24-2008, 03:04 PM
OK OBD2 code 0133 is a slow or non responding O2 sensor. I'm guessing since it's out of the exhaust stream it's being recognized as faulty by my corollas computer. I just cleared the code and I'll see how long it takes to come back on. Has anyone else experienced this? Is there a fix?

gte
06-24-2008, 03:11 PM
It's your extender

It's taking too long to register an expected reading in the ecu



OK OBD2 code 0133 is a slow or non responding O2 sensor. I'm guessing since it's out of the exhaust stream it's being recognized as faulty by my corollas computer. I just cleared the code and I'll see how long it takes to come back on. Has anyone else experienced this? Is there a fix?

plumabob
06-24-2008, 03:28 PM
I realize that so I'll assume a EFIE is the way to go?

plumabob
06-24-2008, 03:50 PM
I'm trying something else first before I plunk down the bread for an EFIE. I decided to trim down the extender with my sawzall. Just the tip is protruding and the first set of holes on the end of the sensor can just get into the exhaust stream.

tbhavsar
06-24-2008, 04:26 PM
Great Install; Congratulation!! Please post your MPG results when you get a chance.

From the picture I see that there is a ‘T’ joint between Gas out from Cell and bubbler; also you have water level indicator (if I understand correctly); If so, I have following questions:

1. What is the purpose of having ‘T’ here?
2. Will above arrangement get back pressure from cell gas out to bubbler
3. Will bubbler get water from cell (due to ‘T’ connection & pressure from the cell)

Please provide your feedback when you get a chance.

plumabob
06-24-2008, 05:08 PM
The "T" was just an easy neat way of connecting my level indicator. I only have about 3 inches of water in my bubbler and I'm using 3/8th's tubing so even though it does suck back into the feed line it does not make it into my generator. No water gets into the bubbler only the stream of HHO. This entire system works really well without a lot of check valves. I only use 1 coming out of the bubbler to my intake. As soon as I put some miles on her I will post my MPG's.

Thanks for the kind words,

Bob

tbhavsar
06-24-2008, 05:15 PM
Thanks Bob for your prompt Reply;

-Tushar

liberybell
06-24-2008, 05:32 PM
Would you be so kind to provide the material you use for the housing and where you got it at?
I have a set of plates of 3x8 that I want to build into a box similar to yours but I can find any box that may resist more than 150F. And I know that would be sufficient.

Thanks!

plumabob
06-24-2008, 06:47 PM
I found it in Home Depot in the electrical dept. I'm sure Lowes would have it too. Its a waterproof box for electrical connections. I believe this one is approximately 6.5 x 6.5. Somebody mentioned that there was also a larger version also I think 8x8. I reinforced the top with aluminum diamond plate to prevent any warpage of the lid due to the heat produced.

Bob

liberybell
06-26-2008, 01:00 PM
Thanks, that was very helpful.
I am going to try my setup on a 8x8x6 (So I can have more water on it)
One more question regarding the wiring.
What size wire you are using? 12g, 10g?
Thank you!

plumabob
06-26-2008, 04:38 PM
Hi Libertybell,

I'm using 12 gauge wiring, plus lighter grade wire off the ignition switch to my 30 amp relay.

OK I went 110 miles and filled her back up again....33 MPG 40/60 S&G and highway. It's a few mpg's more then usual but there's room for improvement. I just built my own MAP sensor enhancer. Copied the exact one that Smitty posted. Cost me 2.47 for the case, everything else I had around my shop. Looks like its working correctly as I can choke the engine down if I lean it out too much. Engine light has not come back on yet since I trimmed down my O2 extender either. Now I'm expecting some big mileage gains. Hope I'm right. Stay tuned!

mneste8718
06-26-2008, 04:47 PM
Watch out for the exhaust gas temperatures so that you don't melt your exhaust valves. Lean it out just a little... I don't know if you can measure 'just a little' but you might start seeing MPG gains just from a lean mixture but that isn't the healthy way to do it cause the engine wears out quick (escpecially if you have high EGTs which can melt rings and valves)

gte
06-26-2008, 05:40 PM
Not on a n/a car, especially considering that Corollas compression ratio


Watch out for the exhaust gas temperatures so that you don't melt your exhaust valves. Lean it out just a little... I don't know if you can measure 'just a little' but you might start seeing MPG gains just from a lean mixture but that isn't the healthy way to do it cause the engine wears out quick (escpecially if you have high EGTs which can melt rings and valves)

mneste8718
06-26-2008, 05:42 PM
Not on a n/a car, especially considering that Corollas compression ratio

I am just throwing caution to the wind, something to keep in mind at least.

plumabob
06-26-2008, 06:33 PM
OK good job you got me scared shit now. How do I know for certain when I'm too lean? This is my procedure I turn the knob until the engine stumbles then I back off till she smooths out. Is that correct?

Appreciate the input!

Bob

mneste8718
06-26-2008, 07:20 PM
I recommend to check the voltage of the O2 or MAF/MAP while the car is working with a voltmeter. Check the voltage at idle and then check the voltage at different rpms and see by how much does it change. Then I think it would be safe to decrease that voltage by 5%.

You probably don't have much to worry about since your car isn't high horsepower, you should be alright. It's just that when you lean out too much, it may stall or become undrivable.

As far as I know, my MAF reads between 0-4.5 volts. Yours is probably in the same area.

But yea, try 5% and don't just turn a knob till the car stumbles... recipe for disaster imo.

plumabob
06-27-2008, 11:11 AM
I modified the Map Enhancer I just made. I had it originally set with 2 pots one for city and one for highway and a toggle to switch to either but this didn't allow me to compare to un-enhanced mode. I eliminated the city mode because thats basically useless anyway and set my toggle up for enhance/normal. Normal hooks up the wire directly back to the ECU from the map sensor with no enhancement. Now when I switch from one to the other I can compare modes easily and lean it out slightly without going overboard. So far so good my corolla is running fine and no engine light has reappeared yet. Also my HHO generator has worked flawlesly so far without any heat related issues. Gonna be 90 today, this will be a good heat test.

Bob

dennis13030
06-27-2008, 01:48 PM
I'm want to find out the before and after MPG stats. It sounds like a good system so far.

plumabob
06-27-2008, 05:40 PM
I will post all results and particulars as soon I can run up some mileage. It did run great today in 90 degree heat! No overheating. It was pulling about 25 Amps after over a hours driving time.

liberybell
06-27-2008, 06:44 PM
Hi Libertybell,

I'm using 12 gauge wiring, plus lighter grade wire off the ignition switch to my 30 amp relay.

OK I went 110 miles and filled her back up again....33 MPG 40/60 S&G and highway. It's a few mpg's more then usual but there's room for improvement. I just built my own MAP sensor enhancer. Copied the exact one that Smitty posted. Cost me 2.47 for the case, everything else I had around my shop. Looks like its working correctly as I can choke the engine down if I lean it out too much. Engine light has not come back on yet since I trimmed down my O2 extender either. Now I'm expecting some big mileage gains. Hope I'm right. Stay tuned!

Where you do you plug in that MAP sensor enhancer? (Sorry I got very little experience with the electronic part of vehicles)

plumabob
06-27-2008, 10:13 PM
Hi Libertybell,

Not a plug in more a cut in. The lead coming from your Map sensor going to the ECU must be cut to connect the enhancer. On my corolla it was the center wire, but yours may be different. Really a simple hookup!

Johnh
06-28-2008, 02:55 AM
Thats a great neat install Bob - thanks for the post.
Have you measured the gas output of your unit?

Regards
John

plumabob
06-28-2008, 05:31 AM
Not recently but I will as soon as everything is zeroed in. One thing I did find was that yesterday after the extra hot weather my bubbler did indeed suck back into the generator. Easy fix just added a check valve between the genny and the bubbler to prevent it from happening again.

wljohns
06-28-2008, 03:02 PM
Not recently but I will as soon as everything is zeroed in. One thing I did find was that yesterday after the extra hot weather my bubbler did indeed suck back into the generator. Easy fix just added a check valve between the genny and the bubbler to prevent it from happening again.

Where did you get the checkvalve. Please give the store,part numer etc. I live in a small and I mean small town, and cant find a suitable checkvalve for squat. I am gonna resort to using an outboard motor primer bulb today so I can atleast get my unit on my truck.

plumabob
06-28-2008, 06:01 PM
I found it on eBay. Just do a search. A few guys are selling them.

ranger2.3
06-28-2008, 06:52 PM
Hi plumabob does your corolla run entirely off of HHO?

plumabob
06-28-2008, 11:38 PM
I wish :):):):)

Ronjinsan
06-30-2008, 06:52 AM
I was just looking at your prototype plans! The plate config isnt going to help you at all! Add a plate and go for the +nnn-nnn+ much more sensible.

plumabob
06-30-2008, 08:12 AM
Already have, thats what I've been running in my car for the last week or so. Lots of production. Waiting for my Scan Gauge II to arrive. Then I can get zeroed in.

Thanks

Bob

Ronjinsan
06-30-2008, 08:49 AM
Already have, thats what I've been running in my car for the last week or so. Lots of production. Waiting for my Scan Gauge II to arrive. Then I can get zeroed in.

Thanks

Bob

Perfect....now I'm looking forward to some results, keep it up Bob :D

plumabob
06-30-2008, 06:16 PM
Scan Gauge II is here. Got a new code today 171. Fuel too lean, now we are getting somewhere. My MAP enhancer is definitely leaning out the engine a bit too much. I also removed the O2 extender, now I will watch all the readings on the SGII to see what is going on. There is one mode that tells you if the O2 sensor is in a closed or open loop. That may be helpful to know also.

Bob

airdude
06-30-2008, 08:43 PM
correct me if I am wrong. been a whiles since I wrenched. Th EEFI or whatever it is sends a voltage to the ECU bypassing the O2 sensor, correct?
There is a guy on YouTube that has a more correct approach and it is simpler. The computer wants to see a certain voltage, but it has to be a normally fluctuating voltage - real world. Otherwise it may sense something wrong and go full rich. He suggested leaving the O2 sensor in place but adding .4 volts to the lead going to the ECU. Still taking advantage of the normal O2 variations in voltage. This way you maintain the correct 14.7 ration. Make sense?

plumabob
07-01-2008, 05:36 AM
Yes it does make sense, Hell I'm no expert I just started messing around with this HHO stuff a few weeks ago so it's trial and error. Actually I'm not touching the O2 sensor at all, only the lead from the MAP to the ECU. Today I will readjust my enhancer so that the engine light does not come on and leave it in that position to see if theres any mileage gains. Thanks for the input.

Bob

plumabob
07-03-2008, 05:00 PM
My latest mileage gains were dissapointing as I'm still at 33 MPG's 40/60 mix of driving. I'm sure I'd be at 40 MPG's all highway but I still think I can improve things some.

Decided to try another plate configuration instead of the +NNN-NNN+ I was using. I'm thinking more HHO is needed. I came up with an 8 cell setup
+- +- +- +- with a 1 inch spacing between each set and NO NEUTRAL PLATES! I hooked it up in series. So it's basically 4 cells in one box. First thing I noticed was lower amp draw using the same % of electrolyte mix. I added about another half teaspoon of the Sodium Hydroxide and man alive this baby started to pump out HHO like crazy and it still is only drawing 25 amps max. I'm easily doubling HHO production. Ran it today for a couple of hours in the Corolla and no heat or amperages issues at all. I can definitely feel the difference driving. Car is much more responsive. I have my Map Enhancer set up for about .30 volts less at 55MPH then what it was in Normal mode. No CEL light yet. So now for another fill up and some real world driving.

Bob

ELECTR0N3RD
07-03-2008, 08:17 PM
Would you be so kind to provide the material you use for the housing and where you got it at?
I have a set of plates of 3x8 that I want to build into a box similar to yours but I can find any box that may resist more than 150F. And I know that would be sufficient.

Thanks!
It looks like an electrical box, you can get those at Lowes, or home depot, or any hardware store really.

rzone
07-04-2008, 11:14 AM
correct me if I am wrong. been a whiles since I wrenched. Th EEFI or whatever it is sends a voltage to the ECU bypassing the O2 sensor, correct?
There is a guy on YouTube that has a more correct approach and it is simpler. The computer wants to see a certain voltage, but it has to be a normally fluctuating voltage - real world. Otherwise it may sense something wrong and go full rich. He suggested leaving the O2 sensor in place but adding .4 volts to the lead going to the ECU. Still taking advantage of the normal O2 variations in voltage. This way you maintain the correct 14.7 ration. Make sense?

Bad idea. The .4 volts will create a current flow through O2 sensor, modify the output swing and in time decalibrate or/and damage it. A good efie keep O2 sensor away from currents or voltage applied on it. A simple approach, is to use a small battery and a potentimeter in series with the sensor, so the current flow only to ECU.
If you guys want a simple unit to built yourself, after I finish all the tests I'll post the schematic, no transformer, and it can be used with narrowband and wideband sensors without modifications.

plumabob
07-04-2008, 12:06 PM
Yes please post the schematic when completed.

Thanks

Bob

rzone
07-07-2008, 04:58 PM
This is the schematic that I promise. My car have a narrowband sensor so the device is calibrate to output no more than .9V The maximum voltage you can add is about .4V, more than necessary. Beside that you'll need a relay to switch the sensor output from ecu to efie and efie output to ecu (or you can use a simple 2 sections switch). I didn't found a car with wideband sensor, so I only simulate the voltage and it works, but you have to remove the 2 diodes from output.
Be careful though : when you lean the mixture too much the engine start to heat up and misfire, and you'll get waves of pressure in the intake manifold that goes to your cell. At idle, misfiring is easy to hear but at high rpm they are impossible to detect, usually only the knock sensor can do it.

plumabob
07-08-2008, 07:56 AM
Hey Rzone Thanks for that schematic. Can a pot be added somewhere on there for some adjustibility. My electronic knowledge is fair at best but I can build anything almost if I have a good schematic. Pretty sure i do understand it though.

Bob

airdude
07-08-2008, 11:29 AM
Bad idea. The .4 volts will create a current flow through O2 sensor, modify the output swing and in time decalibrate or/and damage it. A good efie keep O2 sensor away from currents or voltage applied on it. A simple approach, is to use a small battery and a potentimeter in series with the sensor, so the current flow only to ECU.
If you guys want a simple unit to built yourself, after I finish all the tests I'll post the schematic, no transformer, and it can be used with narrowband and wideband sensors without modifications.


No, there will be no voltage added to the sensor. Simply place a diode to stop that.

rzone
07-08-2008, 05:20 PM
Hey Rzone Thanks for that schematic. Can a pot be added somewhere on there for some adjustibility. My electronic knowledge is fair at best but I can build anything almost if I have a good schematic. Pretty sure i do understand it though.

Bob

I'm not shure I get your point. In the picture is the 1k potentiometer that allows you to add between 0 and 0.4 volts to output of lambda sensor.

rzone
07-08-2008, 05:35 PM
No, there will be no voltage added to the sensor. Simply place a diode to stop that.

Usually a diode can do that, but not at low voltage. Under 0.7V a silicon diode won't conduct at all, so the signal from a narrowband sensor will be cut off. Check my schematic and you'll see 2 diodes in series with the threshold voltage close to 0.9V

airdude
07-09-2008, 05:29 AM
Usually a diode can do that, but not at low voltage. Under 0.7V a silicon diode won't conduct at all, so the signal from a narrowband sensor will be cut off. Check my schematic and you'll see 2 diodes in series with the threshold voltage close to 0.9V

OK. Point taken. I am not an electronics wiz by any means. But how about this. Is there a way to emulate or copy the signal from the O2 sensor and then add the .4 volts or makeup voltage and send that on to the ECU?

rzone
07-09-2008, 02:42 PM
It is not difficult to do any of that, but you have to be more specific. You want to emulate the O2 sensor to test an efie on workbench? or you want to install it in the car?