PDA

View Full Version : Anyone ever open up a commercial HHO generator?



sheriffav8r
09-28-2008, 11:31 PM
What do the pro's use for HHO generation? They have 110V machines that put out specific amounts of HHO and I would be interested if anyone has seen the inside of these tried and true machines. I've got my 316 .031" SS and plan on mounting it in a polypropylene 3/8" container that is slotted to fit three sides of my plates. The top will stick up out of the water so there won't be any stray voltage. Now I'm just trying to figure out the proper spacing. Seems like everyone is going with extremely close spacing. I probably can't get my slots closer than 1.5 - 2.0 mm.... Then I'll be able to easily test different electrode setups and spacing designs. Any thoughts?

sheriffav8r
09-29-2008, 02:42 PM
Bueller, Bueller?

sheriffav8r
10-07-2008, 08:38 PM
Okay, my point is this: SRA H2O water torch is fairly small (15x11x14), uses only distilled water, puts out 80lph (1.3lpm), and only uses 476 watts at 110 or 220V. It appears they aren't using rocket science. 476 watts is about 4.3A x 110VAC or 34A x 13.9VDC. This seems doable....

http://sra-solder.com/h20.htm

or this 1200lph (capacitor enhanced!): http://www.watertorch.com/buytorch/ER1200%20Spec%20Sheet.pdf

or this discussion on the same 1200lph model: http://www.eagle-research.com/browngas/machine/erseries/er1150/erserie1.html

Here are some good sites for calculators:

http://www.ifigure.com/engineer/electric/electric.htm
http://www.opamplabs.com/eirp.htm

SpecHunter
10-07-2008, 10:27 PM
Okay, my point is this: SRA H2O water torch is fairly small (15x11x14), uses only distilled water, puts out 80lph (1.3lpm), and only uses 476 watts at 110 or 220V. It appears they aren't using rocket science. 476 watts is about 4.3A x 110VAC or 34A x 13.9VDC.

Wow, Sounds to me like we should just buy a good power inverter and one of them bad boys popped into the trunk,hehe:rolleyes:

LoveToSail
10-08-2008, 07:40 PM
Wow, Sounds to me like we should just buy a good power inverter and one of them bad boys popped into the trunk,hehe:rolleyes:

Hmmm........why not?:cool:

JonDoh
10-09-2008, 06:26 AM
Yep.... I concur

Jaxom
10-09-2008, 10:30 AM
Did anybody bother to calculate the efficiency of that device? It gets 2.8 MMW. That's horribly inefficent. Add the inverter losses and you have one of the most inefficent cells out there.

It would take 35 amps to drive that on your 13.5v charging system. My genny puts out over twice the HHO at that power level.

sheriffav8r
10-09-2008, 10:45 AM
I guess my questions go more to reliability than efficiency. If we can duplicate some of their success at home (distilled water and reliable production) we might have something. They are using capacitors and 240V to run a 1200W unit at 5A through a bridge rectifier, if I understand correctly. They have no heat because they have 120 cells and relatively low amperage. This uses 3 watt hours per liter. I don't know what the conversion to the current lingo is or if this is horribly inefficient or not.

I'm thinking 60 cells at 120V rectified to DC. 600W would be 2V @ 300A using 5A rectifiers according to their calculations. 300W (2.5A rectifier) = 2V @ 150A. Amps equals HHO production and they don't have heat issues because there is no transformer to deal with. Their capacitors act as an amperage regulator or something to keep the current constant. They look pretty big in their pictures. This is the older model and it's info:

http://www.eagle-research.com/browngas/machine/erseries/er1150/erserie2.html

Here's some of the ER1200 and the silver capacitors on top:

http://www.eagle-research.com/browngas/machine/erseries/er1200/er12002.html

SpecHunter
10-09-2008, 06:19 PM
By the looks of that link, they put all the bells and whistles on that thing.... construction so heavy that they brag that the cell (electrolizer) can withstand an explosion even if the bubbler fails.and cooling with no fans ,etc.

sheriffav8r
10-11-2008, 11:01 AM
Well, now I just have to start taking baths in distilled water while I'm blow drying my hair to be safe.... He, he, he.... I'm not buying one of these units, just trying to replicate some of their success. These companies cater to businesses that need HHO on a reliable basis and aren't some fly-by-night "boost your MPG by 50%" dudes....

Dustin
10-12-2008, 10:30 PM
http://stores.ebay.com/Hydromagic-Energy-Systems

Very interesting reading. They claim their small generator will produce enough hydrogen out of 1 liter of water to fuel a 4 cylinder car running 60 mph for 7214 miles. They say it only costs $2.15 of electricity to make that 1 liter of water to usable hydrogen.

Visit their store and there is a boat load of information on there. True or not....I don't know.

My question is:

Could you buy say an older (mid 90's) Cavalier or whatever and take the 4 cylinder engine out of it and mount it on a stand? The engine would be connected to a 12kw generator (which requires around 40 hp to run) via belt or whatever would work. If you overdrive the output speed to the generator by 30%, then the engine would run somewhere around 1385 rpm to meet the required 1800 for the generator. The engine could be enclosed in a small shed out of the elements and would make no more noise than a car idling. Their figure of 7214 miles divided by 35 mph (I'm just going off of my average speed I get each tank fill) is 206 hours. With 168 hours in a week, it would cost $1.74 in electricity each week to run my total electric home. I've heard a that any excess electricity you make and feed back into the grid has to be purchased from you by the utility company.

I just don't see powering my home for $1.74 a week....of course this dosen't include the cost of the water!!! LOL. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to do this but....

hg2
10-13-2008, 12:45 AM
http://stores.ebay.com/Hydromagic-Energy-Systems

Very interesting reading. They claim their small generator will produce enough hydrogen out of 1 liter of water to fuel a 4 cylinder car running 60 mph for 7214 miles. They say it only costs $2.15 of electricity to make that 1 liter of water to usable hydrogen.

Visit their store and there is a boat load of information on there. True or not....I don't know.

My question is:

Could you buy say an older (mid 90's) Cavalier or whatever and take the 4 cylinder engine out of it and mount it on a stand? The engine would be connected to a 12kw generator (which requires around 40 hp to run) via belt or whatever would work. If you overdrive the output speed to the generator by 30%, then the engine would run somewhere around 1385 rpm to meet the required 1800 for the generator. The engine could be enclosed in a small shed out of the elements and would make no more noise than a car idling. Their figure of 7214 miles divided by 35 mph (I'm just going off of my average speed I get each tank fill) is 206 hours. With 168 hours in a week, it would cost $1.74 in electricity each week to run my total electric home. I've heard a that any excess electricity you make and feed back into the grid has to be purchased from you by the utility company.

I just don't see powering my home for $1.74 a week....of course this dosen't include the cost of the water!!! LOL. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to do this but....

You might want to take a second look at the claims this company's making.The largest unit they have has an output of 3000 ml per minute and there are 1000ml in a liter,that means the output is ony 3 liters per minute.The motor you spoke of to use run with just hho will require about 4000 LPH(that's over 65 LPM) just to MAYBE run it at idle.As they say,do the math.

H2OPWR
10-13-2008, 02:05 AM
Okay, my point is this: SRA H2O water torch is fairly small (15x11x14), uses only distilled water, puts out 80lph (1.3lpm), and only uses 476 watts at 110 or 220V. It appears they aren't using rocket science. 476 watts is about 4.3A x 110VAC or 34A x 13.9VDC. This seems doable....

http://sra-solder.com/h20.htm

or this 1200lph (capacitor enhanced!): http://www.watertorch.com/buytorch/ER1200%20Spec%20Sheet.pdf

or this discussion on the same 1200lph model: http://www.eagle-research.com/browngas/machine/erseries/er1150/erserie1.html

Here are some good sites for calculators:

http://www.ifigure.com/engineer/electric/electric.htm
http://www.opamplabs.com/eirp.htm

No one puts out any HHO with distilled water alone. Distilled water is an insulator. It simply will not conduct any electricity. YOU NEED SOMETHING THAT CONDUCTS ELECTRICITY IN THE WATER TO MAKE HHO. Do not beleive anyone who claims HHO production from either distilled water or steam. It simply can not work period.

H2OPWR
10-13-2008, 02:11 AM
Please do not beleive any of these outragious claims. If any of this actually worked it would be on the six oclock news and these people would be the richest people in the world. They are nothing but snake oile salespeople.

sheriffav8r
10-13-2008, 10:45 AM
What I'm looking at replicating is NOT from the outrageous claims people. It's from industrial HHO generators that cost anywhere from $4K to $30K apiece and are used for large manufacturing processes. I don't believe these guys sell junk to industry. Their products look solid and well made. I'm NOT trying to replicate ANY of the HHO for cars stuff. I'm looking at 120 or 240V setups that are heavy duty. I do agree that some of the industrial units probably use a form of solid electrolyte polymer of some sort, though.... I was mainly trying to vet the 120V @ 5A idea with bridge rectifiers at only 5A of power instead of transformers at 30A and above....

hg2
10-13-2008, 12:05 PM
What I'm looking at replicating is NOT from the outrageous claims people. It's from industrial HHO generators that cost anywhere from $4K to $30K apiece and are used for large manufacturing processes. I don't believe these guys sell junk to industry. Their products look solid and well made. I'm NOT trying to replicate ANY of the HHO for cars stuff. I'm looking at 120 or 240V setups that are heavy duty. I do agree that some of the industrial units probably use a form of solid electrolyte polymer of some sort, though.... I was mainly trying to vet the 120V @ 5A idea with bridge rectifiers at only 5A of power instead of transformers at 30A and above....

After looking at the site a second time It does say hydrogen generator meaning it produces H2 only(just guessing doesn't really say).Still here's where I start to have my doubts,this was posted using a large tank of H2 in such a short time.




Originally Posted by mytoyotasucks
my brother wants to do the same, he bought an old chevy with a V8, and had it running un just hydrogen which came in a bottle from a welding shop, and it only lasted 20 min, and cost $60, and this is a 5' tall bottle.




I don't know how far you comute every day,but I can't see any way this unit can fill a high pressure tank for enough H2 to be practicle.Besides even if it could,how much room do have for mutiple 5' tanks plus the generator?This is just my opinion.

Jaxom
10-13-2008, 01:05 PM
These units don't look like junk or scam to me. They're just big and bulky and expensive and not very efficient. Industry rarely cares about power consumption, they just want something that works reliably and does what they need it to do. We have different priorities.....since most of us are trying to do this on an automotive electrical system our power supply is limited, which means efficiency is second only to functionality. Anyone can build a genny that will produce a lot of HHO, if you have enough power to feed it. Unfortunately, a 1200 watt genny will draw 100 amps from a 12v supply. That means you'd need a dedicated alternator to power JUST the generator, regardless of the voltage/current balance. The high-V low-C idea has it's merits, but HHO output is limited by power input no matter how you look at it.

hg2
10-13-2008, 04:34 PM
These units don't look like junk or scam to me. They're just big and bulky and expensive and not very efficient. Industry rarely cares about power consumption, they just want something that works reliably and does what they need it to do. We have different priorities.....since most of us are trying to do this on an automotive electrical system our power supply is limited, which means efficiency is second only to functionality. Anyone can build a genny that will produce a lot of HHO, if you have enough power to feed it. Unfortunately, a 1200 watt genny will draw 100 amps from a 12v supply. That means you'd need a dedicated alternator to power JUST the generator, regardless of the voltage/current balance. The high-V low-C idea has it's merits, but HHO output is limited by power input no matter how you look at it.

It's not easy to make an efficient H2 generator,I looked different ways to build one a few months ago and never could find one that was efficient or with any real high output.

Jaxom
10-13-2008, 05:48 PM
Exactly. Production is easy, just build it big and pump power into it until you get the production you want. Efficient is far more difficult.

Static HHO
10-27-2008, 09:16 PM
Yes they are. I can't believe the guys that keep buying those glass hand grenades. If production rate is equated to the plates' surfaces (sq.in.) these glass thingy would need to fill up your trunk, to get enough gas production.
I've got a box of old prototype WFCs if anyone is interested. From Smacks to my own design; none give you the reliability I need, nor the production.
Now, I only build closed WFC systems. The plates are sandwiched between rubber gaskets (1/16" gasket material around the perimeter of each plate). Easy to build, easy to change config. Easy to use. Solid. No heat build-up because there is very little edge current produced by this design. Edge current equals amp draw, equals heat. Heat, not a good thing.
Cheers, HHO-ing in N. GA