Powering A Home

[dennis13030]

I have an idea to power a home with HHO.

The main components are 1) a Gas/Propane Generator to make electrical power, 2) a HHO electrolyzer(optimized of 120VAC input) and 3) a fuel switch.

The sequence is a) use gas/propane to start the generator, the AC output powers the HHO electrolyzer and produces HHO, b) switch the fuel for the generator from gas/propane to HHO.

The remaining balance of AC power is available for a Home.

[timetowinarace]

The idea is simple and I like simple.

The problem I see is that gas/propane do not burn at the same rate as hho therefore spark timing and possibly/probably valve timing will need to be changed on that single generator. Not simple anymore.

An alternative would be to have a small storage container to store enough HHO to start the generator and run it untill hho production raised enough to sustain it.

Or use two generators. one conventional to start the process, the another to run on hho and then switch between the two.

Just a thought.

[dennis13030]

The ignition timing for using HHO on a standard 4-stroke engine has me concerned as well. As I posted before, for a standard 4-stroke engine the ignition time(and maybe valve timing) may have to be changed. If HHO implodes, then it makes sense to fire the HHO when the cyclinder is largest(NOT COMPRESSED). The vacuum would be pulling the vehicle.

[dennis13030]

Ignoring the valves for now, the timing would go from near "Top Dead Center" to "Bottom Dead Center".

[Stratous]

I like your idea, but perpetual motion is not possible. In theory, we can not create energy, we just change it from one form to another. I suppose if you had an incredibly efficient generator then it could possibly work. Most internal combustion engines are about 35% efficient. What that means is your asking the generator to be able to make enough HHO to power itself and what ever you decide to run in you home with only 35% efficiency. Also I believe the normal HHO generator is about 60% efficient. That means that between the two items your loosing over half of the energy it takes to make them work. It could work if you had a second source of fuel for the generator and only used the HHO as a suppliment. I may be wrong about all of this though.

[dennis13030]

Lets say that I use a 5kW propane generator. I don't know how much HHO gas is required to make it run constantly but if I make an electrolyzer that runs on 120VAC that will produce enough HHO gas to do this and requires less than 1kW(less than 5kW) to do this, then it should work. 1kW(2 kW tops) seems like it would be plenty juice to produce lots of HHO gas.

What do you think?

[Stratous]

Lets say that I use a 5kW propane generator. I don't know how much HHO gas is required to make it run constantly but if I make an electrolyzer that runs on 120VAC that will produce enough HHO gas to do this and requires less than 1kW(less than 5kW) to do this, then it should work. 1kW(2 kW tops) seems like it would be plenty juice to produce lots of HHO gas.

What do you think?

Amperes=watts/volts, so x=2000/120 x=16.6

I am no expert, but it would be difficult to produce enough HHO to run an engine with only 16 amps to play with. I guess you could step the 120 down to say 24 volts which would increase your amperage by alot. Would need a very good HHO generator.

[timetowinarace]

I don't know why not. Many are trying and some have claimed to run car on 12V systems.

I don't see it as a perpetual motion machine because fuel has to be added. In this case the fuel is made but leave it running without adding water and it will quit.

[dennis13030]

How about just rectifying the 120VAC to 60V Pulsing or 42.42V RMS? Now 1000W/42.42V=23.57A. What do you think?

[rmptr]

Ignoring the valves for now, the timing would go from near "Top Dead Center" to "Bottom Dead Center".

Dennis, would the burn for HHO really be THAT slow?

I would also like to power a prime mover with HHO, and I'm very interested.

I'm considering a flywheel engine might work better for powering a generator than a high speed engine...

Maybe a cogbelt connected flywheel for mass and hit or miss ignition?

Best

[dennis13030]

A standard gasoline engine relies on ignited fuel to explode and expand. This action pushs the pistons away from the head. I read that HHO fuel, when ignited, implodes. If this is true, then an engine could be designed to take advantage of the vacuum created be an HHO implosion. I also read that the speed that HHO gases implodes is much faster than gasoline vapor. This is why I think a HHO ONLY power vehicle may have to have it's timing adjusted to "Bottom Dead Center".

[timetowinarace]

My understanding is that ignition timing for hho needs to be past TDC. Standard timing for a gas engine is 8* before TDC I believe. Most applications for HHO require retarding the spark to at least 8* past TDC.

My memory might fail me though. While pure Hydrogen and o2 is suposed to implode, air is usually added to an IC engine and the mixture explodes faster than gas thus the retarded spark.

google "a practical guide to 'free energy' devices" by Patrick J. Kelly

Chapter 10 discusses this.

[dennis13030]

It would figure that a mix of air, gasoline vapor and HHO would require a change to the timing to be most effective. I was considering running an IC engine ONLY on HHO(no air and no gasoline vapor).

[timetowinarace]

8* past TDC is without gasoline vaper.

I don't know how only hydroxy without air could be moved through the engine without some major intake modifacations. Much simpler to use the present throttle body and introduce hho into the air going into the intake.

To my knowledge, none of the tried methods of using hho in common IC engines have utilized implosion.

[volomike]

I like your idea, but perpetual motion is not possible.

I agree. I've built an HHO Generator for my vehicle, and the device draws more amps than is capable to be replenished by the process. However, what it does do properly is to give you back better fuel combustion that you normally waste out your tailpipe, especially as more ethanol is added to our fuels these days. And that's where the petrol + HHO works better, and has no problem replenishing the charge in the battery.

Now, could this make a more fuel efficient petrol or propane or natural gas power generator for the home? Absolutely. It might make it twice as efficient.

Now, as for these engines that run on HHO alone, sure they do, but they drain from a battery for the electrolysis process. But that's not exactly a bad thing. That's a great thing. In a sense if you think about it you could make an "electric car" out of a regular car by removing the fuel, charging a battery at night on electricity very efficiently, and then letting that electricity perform the electrolysis that drives the standard type of engine on HHO.

[diablosdemon]

Ive read a technical paper done by stan meyer which you can get on the web at http://waterpoweredcar.com/pdf.files/Stan_Meyer_Full_Data.pdf which goes through the expanding rate of hydrogen verses other fuels, timing, and a system which uses .5 amps. To my miminal experiance it seams that his research is very well thought out and complete.

You could also do heating, he wrote a very simple way to retrofit his device into an existing propane or natural gas furnace / water heater.

[metalmagic]

Hi all you experimenters:
I love all the pros and cons both ways, but is not water fuel what it is "fuel" not perpetual motion,The water is consumed even if slowly so no perpetual motion. Physics says perpetual motion is the development of power with NO input of energy (I think) if this were the case gasoline engines would be also in this class.
It comes down to one thing develop more HHO using less power, this is what we are all trying to do in different ways.
If we simply say it cannot be done, then lets all go and watch CSI or something, close all of the forums on the subject stick our head in the sand and watch someone else other than you get rich.
Of course it can be done we just have not been going at it in the right way eventually like has been said before "we have to keep on trying it will work".

[metalmagic]

DENNIS13030:
Your Idea about generation has been a thought of mine as well, I have an older toyota 4 litre diesel and 2 new 10 KW generators, in theory the engine can pull the two of them. I surmised plutting a cell or two to the engine and even if it did not run entirely on HHO it could reduce the amount of diesel used. I would plumb the radiator heat into the house in winter and outside in summer should be feasable? as the diesel injects fuel instead of spark ignition the additon of HHO should simply take the engine off idle, the thing idles for hours on a pint of fuel anyways with no HHO should be a fun project.

[dennis13030]

Here is a drawing of the idea.