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View Full Version : Potassium for water softeners?



cjwatts77
10-10-2008, 01:24 PM
I am new to all this. I found potassium for water softeners at the hardware store. Is this an option? I have heard that potassium makes a good electrolyte. I just do not want to use anything toxic...

Thanks for any help

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12-16-2008, 12:45 PM
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coffeeachiever
12-17-2008, 02:06 AM
WTF is that last post?
Anyway, I've never heard of anyone using K as an electrolyte, but that doesn't mean it's not viable. Chemistry is not my strong point so I can't tell you what the electrolosis process will do to it. That is the first thing you will want to find out.
The reason that NaOH and KOH are used is because they are true catalysts that are not used up in the electrolosis process (when the electrolosis is done in a desirable way). They also work great in increasing the conductivity of water. If you find that K has the same properties, please let us know. Good question.

Q-Hack!
12-17-2008, 06:02 AM
Water softeners generally use Potassium Chloride. I suspect you will get a similar result like using NaCl. One of the by-products of salt is that it produces Chlorine gas.

Pure potassium would be an interesting, if not entertaining choice as an electrolyte :eek: Just be sure to stand way back when you decide to drop it into the water.

cully
12-17-2008, 12:03 PM
its been a long time since i went to school but i did do chemistry
Ive forgotten more than i remember but........

doesn't pure Potassium burn/explode on contact with water

coffeeachiever
12-17-2008, 03:19 PM
its been a long time since i went to school but i did do chemistry
Ive forgotten more than i remember but........

doesn't pure Potassium burn/explode on contact with water

That is valuable information. Potassium is out.

Q-Hack!
12-17-2008, 04:20 PM
That is valuable information. Potassium is out.

We don't want to discourage your experimentation process, just make sure you use the correct form of potassium. KOH or Potassium Hydroxide (sometimes called caustic potash) is probably the best choice for an electrolyte. It is usually sold to soap makers and hide tanning specialty shops. I found my source on ebay.

smid1
12-19-2008, 07:38 AM
these are the same - chemical name, trade name, chemical symbol repectively. it is available in flake form ( probably 90% or more purity.), or in a liquid solution which is about 45%, i've heard it referred to as in crystal form, but i'm not familiar - it is probably the same as flakes. it does enhance the conductivity of water, so it should work as a catylist. like any strong alkali, you would have to use caution when making a solution. i work in a chemical plant, and we use the 45% solution to adjust the ph of strong acids. it is also used in the soap making industry to make liquid soap ( sodium hydroxide (lye) is used to make cake soap. ). iv'e also heard of koh being used to create a reaction to break the trigliceride chain in waste vegetable oils in the manufacture of soy or bio - diesel fuel.

cully
12-19-2008, 11:35 AM
thought id add this as acids were mentioned in the above post ;)

potassium hydroxide is a strong alkaline DO NOT MIX IT with strong acids without very good safety equipment as violent reactions take place

Q-Hack!
12-19-2008, 03:35 PM
I think you are thinking of sodium.

No, he is correct. Potassium, in its pure form, will explode when added to water. All of your alkali metals will react with water. Some more than others.

cully
12-21-2008, 05:37 AM
Lithium
sodium
potassium
rubidium
caesium
francium

they are all alkaline metals they all react with water

lithium is in your watch battery it reacts with air in the cell to produce the cell voltage.

sodium is used in discharge lights mainly street lights (orange glow)

potassium is used to reduce blood pressure in medicines

rubidium
caesium
francium these are radio active and are used by the nuclear industry to produce electricity

hg2
12-21-2008, 06:55 AM
Has anyone tried Calcium Hydroxide or Hydrated lime? Some on another forum were thinking of trying it but haven't seen any one post results yet.

cully
12-21-2008, 07:06 AM
quote From Wikipedia


A suspension of fine calcium hydroxide particles in water is called milk of lime.
The solution is called lime water and is a medium strength base that reacts violently with acids and attacks many metals in presence of water.

hg2
12-21-2008, 07:14 AM
Do you think 316 L stainless would be affected by it?

cully
12-21-2008, 08:04 AM
Calcium Hydroxide Chemical Compatibility with Stainless Steel 304 (B-Good) Steel 316 (B-Good)

B = Good. Minor Effect, slight corrosion or discoloration.


info found here (http://www.sscableties.com/chem_ce.htm)

hg2
12-21-2008, 08:29 AM
Calcium Hydroxide Chemical Compatibility with Stainless Steel 304 (B-Good) Steel 316 (B-Good)

B = Good. Minor Effect, slight corrosion or discoloration.


info found here (http://www.sscableties.com/chem_ce.htm)

Doesn't seem to be any more harsh than NaOh according to that chart.Btw good info Cully thanks.

cully
12-21-2008, 08:45 AM
looking around it looks like Calcium Hydroxide (ph12.5) is less alkaline than potassium hydroxide (ph14)

hg2
12-21-2008, 09:27 AM
looking around it looks like Calcium Hydroxide (ph12.5) is less alkaline than potassium hydroxide (ph14)


I wonder how much affect that would have on the amp draw.Maybe on my next maintainance on my generator for cleaning and e-lyte change I'll try the Calcium Hydroxide and see what effect it has regarding amp draw.Seeing as it won't damage my plates any more than NaOh which I've used before last year when I first built the generator.

cully
12-21-2008, 09:42 AM
im wondering wether you would get a deposit of calcium on the plates !

but im unshure ;)

Q-Hack!
12-21-2008, 02:55 PM
im wondering wether you would get a deposit of calcium on the plates !

but im unshure ;)

I am curious to find out what will happen. hg2 - please do try it and let us know.

I know that with some hydroxides, once you break down the molecule it will combine with other hydrogen and oxygen atoms to reform itself. Others break down and form different molecules altogether. The test here would be that if you get calcium deposits then you know that the Calcium Hydroxide molecule is not reforming back into itself. This would mean that over time you would have to replace the electrolyte as well as clean the plates.

hg2
12-22-2008, 04:03 AM
I am curious to find out what will happen. hg2 - please do try it and let us know.

I know that with some hydroxides, once you break down the molecule it will combine with other hydrogen and oxygen atoms to reform itself. Others break down and form different molecules altogether. The test here would be that if you get calcium deposits then you know that the Calcium Hydroxide molecule is not reforming back into itself. This would mean that over time you would have to replace the electrolyte as well as clean the plates.

Sure no problem my cell is due for it's quarterly cleaning and e-lyte change soon.Regarding calcium deposits forming,as long as they don't form quickly I don't see a problem with it.Since the I installed my hho system over a year ago every 3 months or so I remove it from the truck for cleaning and inspection,along with a fresh change of KOH.If the calcium didn't cause me to have to do this much sooner and gives me about the same performance as the KOH,this would be a huge savings seeing as the calcium costs around $8 for a 50 LB. bag.

We'll see what happens when I test it and hopefully the results will be favorable.

cully
12-22-2008, 03:46 PM
calcium hydroxide Ca(OH)2 mixed with water makes lime water !

lime water exposed to air produces carbon dioxide (CO2) + calcium carbonate

Ca(OH)2 + O2 = CO2 + CaCO3

so there is a hydrogen loose in there somewhere but it looks like you get a deposit of calcium carbonate

hg2
12-22-2008, 05:47 PM
calcium hydroxide Ca(OH)2 mixed with water makes lime water !

lime water exposed to air produces carbon dioxide (CO2) + calcium carbonate

Ca(OH)2 + O2 = CO2 + CaCO3

so there is a hydrogen loose in there somewhere but it looks like you get a deposit of calcium carbonate

If it's loose maybe I can corral it and put it to good use LOL.