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scm
10-25-2008, 08:56 PM
Hey everyone, I'm glad to finally be a part of this forum. I've been a metal fabricator for 10 yrs. and have only become aware of hho for about 6 months. Like most of you, it has become an addiction.

It's been hard for me to find solid plans from a fabricators stand point, as most of you don't have access to the type of machinery that I do. That's why I would like to offer my services to anyone interested, and at the same time learn a thing or to from some of you.

I have all the material and machinery to produce anything you can conger up, my specialty happens to be in stainless steel (food service, carwash parts, medical industry). So, feel free to contact me for a for a price quote on anything you would like to have made (plates, etc.) For me, this is side work so I can give you all an exceptional deal on parts rather than going through companies that charge the premium.

Painless
10-25-2008, 10:03 PM
Welcome to the forum!

What kind of fabrication can you do? For example, if we sent a jpg of a plate design complete with measurements etc, could you produce an exact shape?

BoyntonStu
10-26-2008, 12:37 AM
Hey everyone, I'm glad to finally be a part of this forum. I've been a metal fabricator for 10 yrs. and have only become aware of hho for about 6 months. Like most of you, it has become an addiction.

It's been hard for me to find solid plans from a fabricators stand point, as most of you don't have access to the type of machinery that I do. That's why I would like to offer my services to anyone interested, and at the same time learn a thing or to from some of you.

I have all the material and machinery to produce anything you can conger up, my specialty happens to be in stainless steel (food service, carwash parts, medical industry). So, feel free to contact me for a for a price quote on anything you would like to have made (plates, etc.) For me, this is side work so I can give you all an exceptional deal on parts rather than going through companies that charge the premium.

Hi!

Welcome to this exciting forum.

Please quote - (13) 316 or 316L Plates for Amoeba

About 20 gauge 18-22 OK

10 --- plates 3.5 x 6 each with two 3/8 holes

1 --- 3.5 x 6 with two 3/8 holes and with a 1/2 x 1-1/2 tab coming off the top with a 1/4 hole for electrical contact

2 ---- plates 3.5 x 6 each with one 3/8 hole in each.

2-- 4.5 x 7 Aluminum plates with 6-32 clearance holes spaced 1" apart around the perimeter.

See the Amoeba Cell operating here and to give you an idea of what I want:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9x_AFXu9q9k

Note# These dimensions are not critical.

For example, if the SS sheet would yield better numbers for production, 4 x 6 or 3 x 7 plates could also be used.

It is my intention to sell the Amoeba Cell in kit form.

As an aside, can you weld a .375" SS tube to the end plates?

BoyntonStu

Boltazar
10-26-2008, 04:51 AM
I'd like to have 8 8" X 8" 316L SS Plates with cut tabs for a push on wire terminal.

HiTechRedNeck73
10-26-2008, 07:33 AM
I'm interested... if I send you AutoCAD files of the plate design can you use that with your equipment? or do you want a different format?

tell me what you want to see it in and I will sent it for a quote...

scm
10-26-2008, 05:24 PM
The machinery i use is rather low-tech, so I would prefer you send a print or a drawing. I have to manually enter information into the shear,punch press, press brakes, etc.. So, rather than an auto-cad file, I need a detailed print or a good explanation of your looking for(hole size, location, etc.)

Thanks for all your interest!! I'm looking forward to working with you guys.

I will respond to some of your request for a quote, within the next couple of days.(when i get back into the shop on monday) I need to check the current price on 316L (18ga.) as this seems to the most popular choice in material. Like all commodities the price changes almost daily, and I want make sure the price is fair for both you and I.

HiTechRedNeck73
10-26-2008, 08:04 PM
ok, a print or drawing...

would that be in PDF on the computer and email

or

would that be physical paper print and snail mail

either way with full dimensions and/or printable to 8.5x11 paper and 1:1 scale... right?

Stevo
10-26-2008, 08:30 PM
PM sent. Please let me know if there is anything else you need.

scm
10-27-2008, 01:57 PM
PDF or jpg. will work, and it doesn't have to be 1:1

Roland Jacques
10-27-2008, 02:14 PM
You may want to concider a thinner gauge to save some money. I cant see any advantage to using thick 18 ga. 316L.
What the thinnest you can cut/work with?

HiTechRedNeck73
10-27-2008, 06:32 PM
most guys are using 20ga or 22ga right?

Roland Jacques
10-27-2008, 06:51 PM
most guys are using 20ga or 22ga right?
Yeap,

Some have gone to .020" with dry cells. I believe that is 24 gauge not sure?

Iím building one with 316 L .020". And one .020" electrodes and .010" neutral pates (a little hard to cut without a laser cutter)

Some use thicker plates so they well take longer to corrode though. (304)
Ive heard from one guy that says 316 L after a year shows Know sign of corroding.


Maybe SCM can show us the price difference between the different thicknesses?

scm
10-27-2008, 09:01 PM
All I have is a small peice of 18g. 316L (3' x 4'). So I made a couple of phone calls today, and it may be a little harder than I thought to get some light gauge 316L (24-20g). From a fabrication stand point its a little more difficult to keep the peices flat when you work with a lighter gauge especially when you start punching holes and notching. But, I'll continue to try and find at least 20g.

As far as price difference, I got a quote on a 4' x 10' peice of 18g. and it was around $4.50 lb.!!! So going lighter will make a difference in price as 18g. is about 2lbs. per sq. ft. and 24 g. is about 1 lb. per sq. ft.

I'll continue to search..

Roland Jacques
10-27-2008, 10:17 PM
Im not sure how many pounds of SS a 4' x 10' 24 ga weights, but the cheapest i can find a sheet of 316 L 24 ga is about $350.00

If your figures are right 4'x10' 24 ga should be 40lbs x $4.50 = $180



Water or lasar cutting it is very pricey also.

sumdude
10-27-2008, 10:57 PM
Yes the lighter the gauge it will tend to bend when you attempt to do any fabrication to it. expecially when drilling holes it tends to bends around the edges of the hole. However a buddy of mines owns a metal shop so therefore I personally receive mines at a great discount.

At times he has sales where he has the 316L 20G. at $16 sq.ft and 24 g. at $12 sq. ft

I just got 14 4X4 316L cut from him and it only cost me about $30 include fabrication.


All I have is a small peice of 18g. 316L (3' x 4'). So I made a couple of phone calls today, and it may be a little harder than I thought to get some light gauge 316L (24-20g). From a fabrication stand point its a little more difficult to keep the peices flat when you work with a lighter gauge especially when you start punching holes and notching. But, I'll continue to try and find at least 20g.

As far as price difference, I got a quote on a 4' x 10' peice of 18g. and it was around $4.50 lb.!!! So going lighter will make a difference in price as 18g. is about 2lbs. per sq. ft. and 24 g. is about 1 lb. per sq. ft.

I'll continue to search..

Stevo
10-28-2008, 10:18 PM
I got my plates from ebay....
316L 8"x8" 16g for $6 each that is the cheapest I have found. They should be here today. Seems to be thicker than what everyone is using. Hopefully it will not be too hard to work with. I do have access to a plasma cutter if needed.

Yep, you'll need that plasma cutter I bet.

Boltazar
11-07-2008, 02:53 AM
Which guy are you referring to SCM

scm
11-09-2008, 05:32 PM
Yeah I think he means me...
I sent him a quote, but somehow it must not have gone through.

I sent him another.

Sorry Stevo

hitf
11-10-2008, 07:36 AM
Is a far better material to use, if any one would like some contact me at:

[email protected]

Price per square foot:

0-50 6.00 dollars
50-100 5.00 dollars

plus shipping

Boltazar
11-12-2008, 10:24 PM
I received my SS plates today from SCM as promised. They look great, real flat, in fact so flat I had a tough time getting them apart. All the holes are as should be. I'm a happy camper or should I say a happy cell maker. Well, another piece of the puzzle and we'll be on our way to better gas mileage in no time. Thanks SCM..

Stevo
11-13-2008, 02:30 AM
Yeah I think he means me...
I sent him a quote, but somehow it must not have gone through.

I sent him another.

Sorry Stevo


It's ok. I'm actually scratching my last design for another one that I am pondering. Waiting on some flow results in a different thread. I am very interested in 430 stainless though.

scm
11-15-2008, 04:32 PM
Still waiting for a price on the 430 grade S.S.(might not be until early next week).
I'm not familiar with the 400 series S.S., I almost exclusively use the 300 series. So, I asked a couple of fellow fabricators what they know about 430. They, said that 430 is junk! That its magnetic, and mostly used for asthetic purposes (trim, cheap gas grills)

So I wonder why some of you are requesting 430? Just for the cheaper price? Or, does it really work good for cell plates?

Has anyone been using 430 grade, how is it holding up?

Boltazar
11-15-2008, 09:44 PM
Found this http://www.mastainless.com/grades/index.html

Should be many more grade descriptions

theramsey3
11-16-2008, 07:20 PM
Me personally I would not even play with the 400 series see my post showing all the chemical properties of 430 and 316L http://hhoforums.com/showpost.php?p=18518&postcount=4 in 20 GAUGE #430 STAINLESS (SOLD BY THE SQUARE FOOT)

Stevo
11-17-2008, 01:39 PM
So I wonder why some of you are requesting 430? Just for the cheaper price? Or, does it really work good for cell plates?

Has anyone been using 430 grade, how is it holding up?

I'm still trying to get an answer on that since we have people here stating that it works "great". Yes, obviously cost is a *huge* factor here. You could tell me all about the composition of the metal all day long, but until I've seen actual test results with electrolysis... I can't necessarily mark it off the list at this point.

theramsey3
11-18-2008, 01:41 AM
I'm still trying to get an answer on that since we have people here stating that it works "great". Yes, obviously cost is a *huge* factor here. You could tell me all about the composition of the metal all day long, but until I've seen actual test results with electrolysis... I can't necessarily mark it off the list at this point.

I would like to see a test of the 430 on a dry cell pulling 50 - 60 amps on 21 plates -nnnn+nnnn-nnnn+nnnn- for lets say a period of 7 days if no adverse affects run it on a bench for a month at 30 - 40 amps and if there are still no adverse affects then i would venture to say it is a plausible metal to be used for electrolysis but the big thing that drives me away from it is the fact that it is magnetic which must mean that it contains more iron in it than 316L

theramsey3
11-18-2008, 02:01 AM
Just wanted to say I wasn't trying to thread jack you or drive away business just stating my opinion and providing facts of the 2 different metals. The 430 might work just fine being as we are (or at least should be according to plate spacing) using a relatively weak alkaline solution as electrolyte. but would still like to see the experiment I mentioned performed even on a smaller scale IE. one six plate cell +nnnn- pulling about 12 - 15 amps to either prove or disprove the 430.

H2OPWR
11-21-2008, 01:16 AM
The first cell I ever built was over a year ago. I cut the plates from a stainless steel refridgerator door skin (it was magnetic. I am not sure but think it was 430 stainless. The plates did not last two months with the cell in my Jeep. I had to keep adding more and more electrolite (at that time baking soda) just to keep the amps at 30. The Jeep was only on about 30 minutes per day. I took the plates to the stainless shop here in town. They also were not sure but thought they were 430 as well. They sold me 316L stainless. No more problems. I would not walk away from 430 I would run.

Roland Jacques
11-21-2008, 01:39 PM
You might want to confrim this, BUT i believe Bob Boyce uses 430 SS. but im not sure why he uses it. it might be cost

Roland Jacques
11-21-2008, 02:03 PM
316l 8x8x.0625 (16 gauge) = 16.50oz (.2578125 per sq in)

So a 48X120x.0416666 (24 gauge) = 1485/1.5 = 990oz/16 = 61.875lbs x 4.50 = $278.44


I belive 24 ga is .023" not .042"
38 lbs / $350.00 makes it closer to $9.00 lb
i no if you buy bulk i can get closer to $4.50/lbs but thats 10- 4'x10' sheets!!

im have been looking for a good quality (316L) 28 or 26 ga ss for months with no luck

H2OPWR
11-21-2008, 04:53 PM
For any of you wanting to try 430 stainless please read this article. The people trying to sell it are either mis-informed or trying to male an extra buck because it is less expensive.

http://bbq.about.com/od/stainlesssteelgrills/a/aa042305a_2.htm

Painless
11-21-2008, 06:16 PM
I belive 24 ga is .023" not .042"
38 lbs / $350.00 makes it closer to $9.00 lb
i no if you buy bulk i can get closer to $4.50/lbs but thats 10- 4'x10' sheets!!

im have been looking for a good quality (316L) 28 or 26 ga ss for months with no luck

Not sure which gauge is which size, but McMasterCarr sells up to .5" thick 316L in sizes from 12"x12" up to 48"x24"?

DaneDHorstead
11-27-2008, 02:46 PM
I would like to see a test of the 430 on a dry cell pulling 50 - 60 amps on 21 plates -nnnn+nnnn-nnnn+nnnn- for lets say a period of 7 days if no adverse affects run it on a bench for a month at 30 - 40 amps and if there are still no adverse affects then i would venture to say it is a plausible metal to be used for electrolysis but the big thing that drives me away from it is the fact that it is magnetic which must mean that it contains more iron in it than 316L
First of all, I would like to say that I do not use 430 grade stainless, but
I do want to point out a fact that does not seem to be apparent throughout this thread, or even through out the forum..........

Rergardless of what plate grades you use (at least in a wet cell design), they need to be connected to the source of current..........

When is the last time you found 430 SS grade nuts and bolts, or for that matter, 316 nuts and bolts (either regular, or L grade)?

In virtually every circumstance (in the USA), you will encounter 18-8 ss nuts, and bolts (which is the same as 304 grade).

Whenever you use two different grades of materials, either above or below the water line, the weaker grade, will always corrode!

However, if you select your plate materials, with the fastener grades in mind, you can yoke the materials evenly!

With no imbalance of material grades, even the softer materials can last a very long time!

But without that balance, even the 316L, will react with the softer bolts, eating away at the connection points of contact, possibly causing a spark!

It is always the softer metal that is eaten up, but materials in balanced composition, do not suffer that consequence!

In the HHO quest, never mix material compositions!

H2OPWR
11-28-2008, 03:21 AM
Maybe I am lucky but we usually have less variety in Alaska. 316L allthread, nuts, and washers were easy to come by at the local fastener supply store.

DaneDHorstead
11-28-2008, 02:12 PM
Maybe I am lucky but we usually have less variety in Alaska. 316L allthread, nuts, and washers were easy to come by at the local fastener supply store.
In Alaska, that does not surprise me, as the climate there, dips to extreems almost beyond our imaginations. It only makes sense, in such climates to use superior metals, to hold up to brittle cold conditions.

But as a resident of Naples Florida, 316 L hardware, is virtually impossible, to find.

It's no secret, that your climate, requires metals that can out perform most! But that is not the norm.

Store owners have to put out huge amounts of cash, to stock store shelfs, and in the lower 48, spending twice as much, for higher grades of stainless, in most cases, does not make practical sense.

Stainless, in most cases is not required for strength, near as much, as it is for it's non corrosive properties.

Higher carbon content, gives it better strength, which stands up to the "brittle" cold, better.


I don't say that to be argumentitive, but to state that in terms of Alaska's, and Florida's climates, neither of us, can claim to be the normal atmosphere!

In fact, our country is so large, that each specific state varies to some degree, in climate conditions.

scm
11-28-2008, 05:57 PM
I have come up with a price chart using 20g. 316 s.s.
You choose the width and height, numbers of holes, and get an instant price.

I will e-mail this chart to anyone interested....

H2OPWR
11-28-2008, 11:37 PM
In Alaska, that does not surprise me, as the climate there, dips to extreems almost beyond our imaginations. It only makes sense, in such climates to use superior metals, to hold up to brittle cold conditions.

But as a resident of Naples Florida, 316 L hardware, is virtually impossible, to find.

It's no secret, that your climate, requires metals that can out perform most! But that is not the norm.

Store owners have to put out huge amounts of cash, to stock store shelfs, and in the lower 48, spending twice as much, for higher grades of stainless, in most cases, does not make practical sense.

Stainless, in most cases is not required for strength, near as much, as it is for it's non corrosive properties.

Higher carbon content, gives it better strength, which stands up to the "brittle" cold, better.


I don't say that to be argumentitive, but to state that in terms of Alaska's, and Florida's climates, neither of us, can claim to be the normal atmosphere!

In fact, our country is so large, that each specific state varies to some degree, in climate conditions.

We probably have some extra supply of 316L due to the huge commercial fishing industry. Almost all stainless used in salt water is high grade.

hhothekilla
01-12-2009, 06:17 AM
Hello Gents and Ladies! I was wondering if anyone has tried AL-6XN Stainless steel? It has greater corrosion resistance than 316L. It also has higher levels of nickle which means low magnetic characteristics. With very high levels of molybdenum which contributes to the high corrosion resistance. It is also supposed to be less expensive than the traditional stainless steels. I believe this alloy was created because of cloride pitting. This alloy eliminates pitting and stress corrosion.

cat3rn
01-20-2009, 05:42 AM
Would like to get a price on 25 plates 8" X 8"?

fbmob1
02-18-2009, 11:30 PM
I have come up with a price chart using 20g. 316 s.s.
You choose the width and height, numbers of holes, and get an instant price.

I will e-mail this chart to anyone interested....

Please e-mail your price chart to [email protected]

Gary Diamond
02-19-2009, 02:12 AM
I have come up with a price chart using 20g. 316 s.s.
You choose the width and height, numbers of holes, and get an instant price.

I will e-mail this chart to anyone interested....

Do you stainless steel 316L foil??

bigjim56
02-19-2009, 08:38 AM
Gary Diamond Quote:

Do you stainless steel 316L foil??

bigjim56:

The science channel had a program on the other night that I recorded (How Its Made) on how stainless steel is produced.

Those big blocks had me lickin' my chops. To be reduced to a foil is an accomplishment indeed, thank the lord for hydraulics!

bigjim56

Roland Jacques
04-22-2009, 10:21 PM
First of all, I would like to say that I do not use 430 grade stainless, but
I do want to point out a fact that does not seem to be apparent throughout this thread, or even through out the forum..........

Rergardless of what plate grades you use (at least in a wet cell design), they need to be connected to the source of current..........

When is the last time you found 430 SS grade nuts and bolts, or for that matter, 316 nuts and bolts (either regular, or L grade)?

In virtually every circumstance (in the USA), you will encounter 18-8 ss nuts, and bolts (which is the same as 304 grade).

Whenever you use two different grades of materials, either above or below the water line, the weaker grade, will always corrode!

However, if you select your plate materials, with the fastener grades in mind, you can yoke the materials evenly!

With no imbalance of material grades, even the softer materials can last a very long time!

But without that balance, even the 316L, will react with the softer bolts, eating away at the connection points of contact, possibly causing a spark!

It is always the softer metal that is eaten up, but materials in balanced composition, do not suffer that consequence!

In the HHO quest, never mix material compositions!

I dont think this is a problem if the contact points are out of the electrolyte solution. Dry, non moving dissimilar metal corrosion would NOT be a problem IMO.


Hello Gents and Ladies! I was wondering if anyone has tried AL-6XN Stainless steel? It has greater corrosion resistance than 316L. It also has higher levels of nickle which means low magnetic characteristics. With very high levels of molybdenum which contributes to the high corrosion resistance. It is also supposed to be less expensive than the traditional stainless steels. I believe this alloy was created because of cloride pitting. This alloy eliminates pitting and stress corrosion.

That looks to me like the best suited SS I've seen for what were doing, Wow. About 15 Xs more corrosion resistant than 316L in heated 50% Sodium Hydroxide solution!!!!
http://www.al6xn.com/about_properties.php

The question is now can we buy it in our relatively very small quantities? and at what cost? i could not even find if they make/sell it buy the sheets? anyway nice find

Roland Jacques
04-22-2009, 10:27 PM
SCM do you sell SS tubing? 1.5", 1.25", and 1.0" I'm looking a couple of 4'-6' lengths

dontgetit
04-28-2009, 11:15 PM
im interested in some plates scm.please pm me.thanks.:D