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View Full Version : Our First HHO Generator -- 2004 Jeep Cherokee



volomike
06-29-2008, 01:53 AM
My father-in-law and I went online and found this Power Tube Kit on YouTube. We assembled it but took a couple shortcuts. Well, sure enough, for two solid minutes on two different times, we managed to get a LOT of HHO to come out of the electrolyzer, bubbling through our bubbler. For our rural community near Myrtle Beach, we were like making history and were very excited.

We have the device with a bubbler as our fire arrestor, and we're feeding it into the air intake area above the fuel injector, rather than going directly into the engine manifold.

However, on the first two solid minutes, we turned the engine off to see the effect and were pleased to see we had wired things that the electrolysis cut off when the engine cut off. But then we turned it on again, and it ran well for another two solid minutes, but then we blew a 25amp fuse.

Here's how we have the thing configured, and perhaps you can offer advice.

- No pulse wave modulator. We first started with a light dimmer for AC power, but then pulled that off and haven't experimented with it since. We never could get it to work, but it might be for some other reason.

- Used about 3 heaping tablespoons of baking soda in 2 cups of water. That's probably too much.

- Used aluminum sheeting inside the electrolyzer instead of stainless steel. Our local hardware store didn't have stainless. We figured we'd stick with this because at worst all it will do is corrode and we can replace it.

- Put our positive wire where the negative wire should be. Don't know if this matters?

- We pulled power under the steering where the fusebox was with one of these extenders you add on for CB radios and towing lights. We stuck it on the 20v/15amp item that runs the cigarette lighter. We kept blowing fuses and so we moved up from 15 to 20 to 25amps. This lasted longer, but then when it blew the 25amp fuse, I put my fingers down there and the wire was extremely hot. However, George said that the wire at that point was a very low guage and might be the culprit. Now, the wire going to the electrolyzer was a decent guage of 10. I think this also created a chain effect because I quickly reached into the vehicle and felt the electrolyzer was fairly warm, and the thick guage wire was warm too.

- We're not using a relay. George thinks we should.

- We're running this right into the fuel injector area, rather than right into the air intake manifold. George feared not only how expensive it will be if we have to replace the air intake manifold, but how it might burn the hose and start a fire, as well as how it might not be a tight enough seal and weaken the vacuum.

Anyway, that was Saturday. On Sunday, which I guess is now since it's 1:48am when I post this, we're going to go back at this again. Let me know if you have any advice.

P.S. I have zero auto mechanic skills. I'm just a logical thinker because I do web development. George is a former auto mechanic, but he got out of that business at least 30 years ago.

mneste8718
06-29-2008, 12:37 PM
You should definitely use a relay so that you use thick wire to supply the current to the electrolyzer. Just get a 40 amp relay, mine turns off automatically if I cross 40 amps, so it is pretty safe.

You are really making things inefficient when using thin wires that get really hot.

Also, baking soda is a bad electrolyte to use. Get some NaOH or KOH. It is much more stable and it gains better results.

Lastly, if you are wondering why you are using so much current, then realize that the more electrolyte you put in the water, the more current you are going to draw. So maybe you should try putting in less baking soda...

volomike
06-29-2008, 01:07 PM
My thoughts exactly. Thanks for that.

porkchop
06-29-2008, 01:37 PM
I JUST ran mine for the first it was just a minute ago.
It pulled 25 amps when warmed up and the container was just warm to the touch after about 20 minutes of running time. I used a 40 amp relay with the power for the relay coming from the fuel pump relay located in the relay box (power distribution center) that goes to your PCM (power control module) This way the unit is only powered when the engine is running, and the switch to the relay will also power the unit down if I see the amp meter (mounted inside my vehicle) going higher than I would like (I am using 30 amps as my shutdown amperage) I can just turn it off from inside my vehicle if I don't like what I am seeing. The relay assembly should work on all units pulling 40 amps or less. I got the kit from O'Rielleys, and it was 11$. Came with all the wires, and some fuse, but I used speaker wire to the unit and amp meter. The wire was rated for 1600 watts, and was 12 Ga.
I have my injection port directly into the manifold. There was a port for the evaporator (which I moved to a different location on the manifold, the test port, which is now tee'd with the evaporator vacuum line) located in the center of the manifold past the throttle indicator, the MAP, and another sensor called the Idle air control.
No check engine lights. On the console that has a "live" mpg display, I was getting 36 MPG on the highway on a flat peice of the road.
I am using sodium hydroxide for my electrolite, and the "smak booster" plate configuration. I used 1 teaspoon of Na hydroxide. I got it from Lowes, it is called ROEBIC, it is 100% sodium hydroxide according the the label which is yellow and black.
I hope I have helped you with any questions you might have with YOUR jeep. Feel free to respond, comment (PM or on this post), I am always willing to listen and learn, for no one knows it all, and I am a long way from even being able to consider it. I guess if you want I can take some pictures. Strateous has helped me alot, so I owe him some cudos for his help which he gave freely, willingly, and with a good spirit. Thanks Strat.

mneste8718
06-29-2008, 03:42 PM
porkchop, what kind of setup are you running (HHO generator wise) to be getting such great MPG out of a Jeep? Can you post a picture?

volomike
06-29-2008, 10:27 PM
We changed the config tonight, so here's the latest report. We drove with it for our first time between Johnsonville and Florence.

Tonight with the Power Tube Kit version that we copied off of YouTube, let's go back over again how our unit was different. In our unit (George and I), we used aluminum as the outer wrap inside the tube instead of stainless steel for now because we don't know where to get bendable stainless steel to use for the experiment. However, all the other parts of the electrolyzer inside the PVC piping were stainless steel. Another thing that was different in our design was that we used a plastic Jiffy peanut butter jar as our bubbler/fire arrestor.

Well, tonight we decided to go straight from battery to toggle switch to electrolyzer, and instead of such a high dose of baking soda, we dimmed it back down to about 1 tablespoon for about 1.5 cups of water. We started the engine, then flipped the toggle to start the HHO, and it started bubbling out the electrolyzer and into the bubbler at a pretty good clip. We then drove off.

Well, one thing to note about this 2004 Cherokee is that I have driven the heck out of it previously, and so it had 122,000 miles on it already. The best it could do when it was running well as 22.5mpg, but it had gone down to about 16mpg. The engine light had come on starting in March, and so I knew it was battery related because it was battery-related last year. I added water in the battery and it turned out the engine light for awhile, but then came back on again back in May. So, I replaced the battery altogether and the engine light went out for a couple days but then came back on again and has remained on. So, the last state of the Cherokee was 16.5mpg and an engine light.

Now comes the HHO. When I started her up, she was running great. The wiring was warm but not too hot at all. The electrolyzer was doing beautifully -- not too hot at all. So, we backed her out of the driveway and drove up to Florence, which is about 45 minutes away. Immediately I could see a difference. The engine light went out and remained out. The vehicle suddenly got much quieter and the sound of the engine went way down. Our gas mileage meter was reset when we had to change the wiring at our battery to wire in our HHO unit, so we started at zero and watched it.

Well, by the time we got to Florence, we hit 24mpg. But now here's the bad news.

We noticed right before Florence that the mpg had slowed a bit. When we stopped and opened up the vehicle (turning off HHO way before then and then turning off the engine), the Jiffy jar lid had already come off. We also saw that the engine created so much vacuum that it had completely sucked out electrolyte down into the bubbler. The Jiffy jar had kind of melted a little from the hot water and we couldn't get the lid to remain on anymore. The 10gauge wiring was warm, but not scalding. The electrolyzer was fairly hot, but not scalding.

So, we then left the HHO off and drove back from Florence to Johnsonville, a total of about 45 minutes. On the way back, we maintained our 24mpg, oddly enough, the engine continued running smoothly, and the engine light remained off. So, I actually think that it cleaned our engine out and it runs smoother now.

I've got a lot of work to do in the next few days with my job, but we'll go back at this again in a more scientific manner, using more advice from these forums, going back to the drawing board with our workbench. We'll try and come up with several designs and more tests to determine which systems produce less heat, create more power without adverse effects, corrode less, drain less amperage (per output of HHO), and in general are the best design.

Some things we're considering:

- comparing lye to potash to baking soda to see which does better
- putting the HHO generator in front of the radiator to keep it cool
- unless someone can warn us of any danger of this, replacing the bubbler with a one-way gas valve as our fire arrestor
- wrapping our electrolyzer (the negative charge) with a curved piece of stainless steel, versus a curved piece of copper
- using a longer electrolyzer rather than our current small one
- seeing if a stacked vertical electrolyzer arrangement produces more power than a horizontal one
- determining the best electrolyte composition (parts:1 cup of water)
- seeing if wiring makes a difference
- considering the use of a relay and/or a fuse, and in what variety