PDA

View Full Version : 10+ lpm cell (with pictures)



hitf
10-30-2008, 06:58 AM
Our cell is designed, tested, and proven and we selling them all around the country.

Measurements:

20" x 13" x 9"

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/hydrogenworld/semidiagramtopjpg.jpg

Holds 6.5 gallons of water.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/hydrogenworld/semidiagram.jpg

The cells are made from 430 stainless steel



The studs, washers and nuts are 316.

THE CELL WILL NOT BE MADE FROM ABS (like in the picture) THEY WILL BE MADE FROM ALIUMIUM WITH LEXAN LINED WALLS.

Contact:

sho14u
10-30-2008, 03:28 PM
Well thats great that you made something you can sell, but what are the paramiters? What is the current draw? Cold and warm? What kind of heat does it produce after running for about an hour?

Stevo
10-30-2008, 04:55 PM
Our cell is designed, tested, and proven and we selling them all around the country.

Measurements:

20" x 13" x 9"

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/hydrogenworld/semidiagramtopjpg.jpg

Holds 6.5 gallons of water.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/hydrogenworld/semidiagram.jpg

The cells are made from 430 stainless steel



The studs, washers and nuts are 316.

THE CELL WILL NOT BE MADE FROM ABS (like in the picture) THEY WILL BE MADE FROM ALIUMIUM WITH LEXAN LINED WALLS.

Contact:

[email protected]

Nice job. Lots o rust in that water I see though. What is the individual cell voltage? What is the overall input voltage? Why 430 stainless?

What electrolyte?
Have you seen what happens to Lexan when exposed to electrolysis and KOH or NaOH?

I might suggest UHMW polyethylene instead of Lexan.

Overall, good work.

resago
10-30-2008, 05:31 PM
what changes did you make?
did you change your 2n config or series the cells?
how does 430 compare to 316L?
whats with the brown water?

hitf
10-30-2008, 06:56 PM
The cells draws about 35-40 amps when cold and around 50-60 when heated up.

The heat of the cell will not go higher than 145 with the right amount of sodium hydroxide.

The brown stuff n the water is from a small amount of tap water that was is the cell from the first test that we did with tap water.

the cell config is the same as before -nn+nn-

I didnt change anything, just added less Sodium Hydroxide. It has 1 ml per gallon. The first test had about 1.65 ml. per gallon. We lowered that to 1 ml and it works great.

Has ran for over 18 hours with the temp not reaching over 145.

I have been build cells of all kinds for 10 months or so and have found that 430 stainless works better than 304, 316l, or anything that I have tried. Plus it is cheaper and looks better after being ran for months.

Stevo
10-30-2008, 10:34 PM
The cells draws about 35-40 amps when cold and around 50-60 when heated up.

The heat of the cell will not go higher than 145 with the right amount of sodium hydroxide.

The brown stuff n the water is from a small amount of tap water that was is the cell from the first test that we did with tap water.

the cell config is the same as before -nn+nn-

I didnt change anything, just added less Sodium Hydroxide. It has 1 ml per gallon. The first test had about 1.65 ml. per gallon. We lowered that to 1 ml and it works great.

Has ran for over 18 hours with the temp not reaching over 145.

I have been build cells of all kinds for 10 months or some and have found that 430 stainless works better than 304, 316l, or anything that I have tried. Plus it is cheaper and looks better after being ran for months.

Very cool, so have you seen any pitting in your plates after a few months with 430 stainless? I am guessing your individual cell voltage is ~4v. Do you have any pics of the 430 stainless after a few months useage?

hitf
10-31-2008, 08:08 AM
I have seen a little pitting on the plates after use but the 430 pits are nothing like the 316l pits.

hitf
10-31-2008, 08:17 PM
Nice job. Lots o rust in that water I see though. What is the individual cell voltage? What is the overall input voltage? Why 430 stainless?

What electrolyte?
Have you seen what happens to Lexan when exposed to electrolysis and KOH or NaOH?

I might suggest UHMW polyethylene instead of Lexan.

Overall, good work.


Isn't Lexan just a name brand for polyethylene?

Stevo
11-01-2008, 04:41 PM
Isn't Lexan just a name brand for polyethylene?

Lexan is another name for polycarbonate.

Polyethylene is a completely different plastic and much more chemical resistant to KOH and NaOH than polycarbonate is. In fact, polyethylene is the plastic used to store these chemicals. It's labeled as HDPE, which is High Density Polyethylene. The UHMW polyethylene has the added benefit over HDPE as virtually unbreakable and high abrasion resistance while being about 10x easier to work with than polycarbonate.

Stevo
11-01-2008, 04:43 PM
I have seen a little pitting on the plates after use but the 430 pits are nothing like the 316l pits.

Very nice. I'll have to give this a whirl as Ace Hardware sells 430 in sheets. I'll have to do my mini dry cell in 430 and see what happens. I'll be using distilled water and KOH. Thanks for the info and good luck with your sale.

GreenEngineer
11-14-2008, 04:36 AM
I hope this thing isn't for sale, and it's just someone's highschool science project. I wouldn't know where to start on all the design flaws.
I know. Let's start with the lie about 430 being better than 316L. Type 430is used for automotive trim with reduced temperature and corrosion resistance of other 400 series types. That lie alone should be enough to tip off any knowledgable person.

hitf
11-14-2008, 05:56 PM
Lie? How many test have you done with 430 vs 316l?

Stevo
11-14-2008, 06:08 PM
Hey, how about instead of flaming each other, we actually do a test? Hmm? That sounds like a good idea to me. Anyone else agree?

Carolinablue
11-14-2008, 06:15 PM
I'll definitely go along with the no flaming idea. Let's put a spark arrestor on it and let's not make this site a bashing party like I've seen so many other sites do.
Thank you;)

GreenEngineer
11-15-2008, 04:28 AM
I'm sorry, but when I see posts like this I think some debunking is in order.
About what I know, I'll start with my 2 Engineering Degrees, 3 years of Chemistry, 2 years of Physics, 4 years of Calculus, and 12 years of design and quality engineering experience in the field of high-tech manufacturing.
If you like we can have a real discussion of this 10 cell in a bath contraption about electrolysis plate configuration, electrolyte conductivity, thermal-electrical efficiency, material corrosion factors, and definitely consumer safety.
Any thing that I state, I can back up with real data and science. How about you trucker?

Stevo
11-15-2008, 04:43 AM
I'm sorry.....

:)

Not to doubt your qualifications, but could you provide a simple explanation beyond just "material corrosion factors" why we shouldn't be using 430 stainless. BTW, I think we are all aware of the material's magnetic properties. I would really like to know before I go wasting my time testing or building with the material. Thanks.

hitf
11-15-2008, 05:56 AM
I'm sorry, but when I see posts like this I think some debunking is in order.
About what I know, I'll start with my 2 Engineering Degrees, 3 years of Chemistry, 2 years of Physics, 4 years of Calculus, and 12 years of design and quality engineering experience in the field of high-tech manufacturing.
If you like we can have a real discussion of this 10 cell in a bath contraption about electrolysis plate configuration, electrolyte conductivity, thermal-electrical efficiency, material corrosion factors, and definitely consumer safety.
Any thing that I state, I can back up with real data and science. How about you trucker?

Wow.... you sound like a really smart person, but if you wanna play with HHO take everything that you have learned in school and forget about it. :


Btw 430 does work a lot better, even if people use if for auto trim.

Carolinablue
11-15-2008, 03:10 PM
Yep, education is good but it is my belief that science has too many times put up walls being so called laws that limits us mentally as to what we are really capable of doing. Most laws of physics started out as theories and as time went on if not proven otherwise became a law of physic meaning it's impossible to do otherwise. An open mind and good common sense is one of the greatest tools we have.;) Put that with our sciences of today and there's no telling were we can go.:)

GreenEngineer
11-15-2008, 05:11 PM
There is nothing open minded about ignoring industry standards and time tested data. There is nothing new about the science of HHO production through electolysis which was fathered by Michael Faraday (ring a bell) and is a process widely used in our chemical industry.
To keep it simple, Type 316L has less Carbon content than 430 and also contains Molybdenum. This composition makes it more resistant to pitting and general corrosion, and 316L is the industry choice for use with alkaline solutions.
The only way to really know if you have 316L is to get it from a reliable source like a commercial steel supplier or to test it yourself for Molybdenum content.

Carolinablue
11-16-2008, 12:27 AM
I shore do hope we'ens don't have anutter Scooterdog in heer.....:D

Stevo
11-16-2008, 04:10 AM
I shore do hope we'ens don't have anutter Scooterdog in heer.....:D

I began to think the same thing at first, but I don't think this guy is here to bash HHO. I think he just disagrees with product on display. Of course if he were to turn out to be another Scooterdick reincarnate, we would all know from recent experience how to deal with the situation and just how short his stay would be here.

FYI - Scooterdog was a guy who decided to tell everyone in every forum that they were stupid as hell, didn't know what what they spoke of, and that HHO was a complete scam. Most of his comments were out of control and rude as well as very immature. He wasted a lot of time (in general) on this forum. Ended up being an employee of what we refer to as "Big Oil" per his own words.

GreenEngineer,

We are glad you are here and very much appreciate you sharing your knowledge with us all. I think we all look forward to learning from each other.

HYDROTEKPRO
11-16-2008, 05:00 AM
316L IS the industry standard for the best steel to use for HHO production, notwithstanding platinum or other expensive exotics.

This doesn't mean that we all didn't overlook testing some 430 to make sure it wasn't as good though. So who's gonna test it under accelerated conditions we can all pretty much agree on??

Traditional education, qualifications and degrees ARE valuable, but, sometimes they are barriers to objective analysis and the resulting discoveries.

So everybody here MAY in fact be correct.

But with the crappy, built-to-fail HHO systems on E-Bay for example sold by scammers, I too am very cautious to endorse anything outside the parameters of our own testing.

Proof is in the pudding, is it time for desert yet? :D

Painless
11-16-2008, 05:05 PM
Proof is in the pudding, is it time for desert yet? :D

Desert? I'm still looking for the wine course....

Dave Nowlin
12-15-2008, 10:51 PM
Did you say wine or whine?

Dave Nowlin

11-03-2009, 03:50 AM
maybe...if you put 60 amps to it....but no matter....the lexan will crack/spit and leak right after the first time it heats up....try UHMW polypropelene

tconnelly
04-19-2010, 07:57 PM
I like te design te only ting i do not like is the dimensions of it. Would be great to use for a home system for eating or a generator but in a vehicle it would need to be put in a trunk or aother open space which will require muc more pressure to feed te hydrogen from the cell to the air intake. I have used 430 stainless and it seemed to do real good for a few mots but the carbon contents are to high and will begin to corode. Truthfully i had better luck with galvonized(whic was accidentaly sipped to me instead of 316L) then i did with 430.

and greenengineer. please stop the flaming. And yes every once and a while we do have to ignore what you learned in school and industry standards because often times they are wrong, and just havnt been proven to be wrong. If we didnt ignore the laws of thermodynamics and other chemical laws than Stan Meyers would have never developed his water ijection buggy because people like you said "it is impossible, there is absolutely no way produce more energy than you spend making hydrogen".

And your comment about i hope you not selling this. I tink you need to worry more about the people selling the PVC pipes with noting but a few bolts drilled in them on ebay for $300.

sokeway
11-28-2010, 12:46 PM
Wiring looks a lot, do not know will not be very easy to install

(D3F0)
02-08-2011, 01:30 AM
Take a look at my thread I talk about 430 Steel a little bit. That is the steal used in Home Depot wall plates. The stuff hasn’t done any good for me so far I am afraid to even try my dry cell out because I feel like it going to corrode really fast and it took about 70 dollars and 1 week to build that’s not including the 80 dollar multi meter btw.

lhazleton
02-08-2011, 11:17 AM
Get rid of the defeatist attitude, already.:D
With all of the work you've done, it would be a shame not to at least try it out!
Like I told you before, learn all you can with what you have. Then you'll have some experience under your belt when you upgrade to better plates.
One thing to think about: It looks like you want to use the power supply from a computer as a power source. This is OK for conditioning, but not for testing. You need 13.8 volts to adequately run the system, not 12.

(D3F0)
02-09-2011, 10:24 PM
you have a point I tested it today it still didnt work check out the pics I followed your advice about the volts

borescopeit
02-27-2011, 05:49 PM
Lexan is another name for polycarbonate.

Polyethylene is a completely different plastic and much more chemical resistant to KOH and NaOH than polycarbonate is. In fact, polyethylene is the plastic used to store these chemicals. It's labeled as HDPE, which is High Density Polyethylene. The UHMW polyethylene has the added benefit over HDPE as virtually unbreakable and high abrasion resistance while being about 10x easier to work with than polycarbonate.

I tried polycarbonate before. Not only it chips when you drill in it, does crack, breaks under high psi applied to it by tightening bolts around dry cells, and it dissolves at lowest 10% concentration! That is not it. It is most expensive plastic material you could use in your cell and it is complete waste of money! A sheet of 1" x 4' x 8' costs over $600!

Now I use polypropylene, it is low in price ($320 for the same size sheet), does not experience all the problems I listed above, highly durable under any KOH concentration, has high melting point ...

I have pleasure working with this type of plastic aka best stuff you can get for the money you have, and it is fitting HHO Dry Cell application the best over any competitors!


10 lpm + ..........................................
The cells draws about 35-40 amps when cold and around 50-60 when heated up.


IT IS PURE BULLSH1T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No cell ever will produce that much lpm with these amps, especially this type of semi-wet student project!
Even the best cell, in ideal environment, with most polished design, etc. will barely do half of the lpm per the amps stated!