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Stratous
06-29-2008, 09:18 PM
This thread is only for posting the results of your installation. If you need to make changes to your increase or god forbid decrease in MPG then please edit your original post. This thread is to make believers out of the non-believers. Thanks

My Testamonial for my 2006 3/4 Ton Dodge cummins Turbo Diesel is:
Stock MPG in town - 17.7 mpg
After install MPG - 24.3 mpg

mneste8718
06-30-2008, 12:16 AM
2004 Subaru WRX (rated at 29mpg hwy)
Has many power adding modifications to bring me over 300hp.

Driving 75mph, no a/c, usually I would get 27ish mpg

With hydroxy I am getting 35mpg

I also just tuned the ECU of the car to adjust the air fuel ratio to 15.3:1. I'll have results soon.

volomike
06-30-2008, 12:53 AM
Did ours with a 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee, 122K miles on it, ran rough after engine start (for a couple minutes) for several months before we started working with HHO, and had an engine light before HHO. Used the Power Tube Kit from YouTube video.

Interesting. I'm getting 8mpg more with HHO, just like you are. I went from 16 to 24mpg. Still, however, we're just getting started and are continuing with more changes.

Also, even when I turned off the HHO, the engine had a great effect -- we were still getting 24mpg, as if the process cleaned out the engine, and then the engine light we had on for several months (before we experimented with HHO) went out.

We're using the Power Tube Kit from YouTube, using 1 tablespoon of baking soda per 1.5cups of water currently until I can get my hands on lye or potash in two days. We're also using aluminum plate inside the tube instead of the recommended stainless steel, but will be replacing that soon.

We're going back to the workbench from here on out to get this more scientific and optimal before putting it back in the Cherokee again.

Ronjinsan
06-30-2008, 06:38 AM
Hi ...my name is Ron and I'm a Hydraholic. My car is now floating around 50MPG as good as 55 sometimes and I love it! Golf (Rabbit) 1600cc carb no electronic crap!

Kwiksilvr
06-30-2008, 09:47 AM
2008 Kia Rio

54 MPG before I melted my housing...

greuvin
07-02-2008, 02:35 PM
2002 Subaru Outback, 5speed.

Dual spiral tower (W4Gas model) connected in series. Distilled water and 1 level teaspoon baking soda. O2 sensor extended. Pulling 2 amps at start-up

Gain in power but no gain in mileage. With A/C and Houston traffic, I'm getting 22 mpg. Did not try highway yet. Was getting about the same before installed this set-up.

Tried Drano as of this morning. Pulling 3 amps after 15 minutes. Looks like more gas production. Will report back.

UPDATE: Connected cells in parallel. Drano. Amps steady at around 10 amps. Heat level tolerable. Producing lots of yellow gas but after full tank, no gain in mileage.

UPDATE: Removed the W4G system from my car. It is junk. Presently waiting to see positive results from Smith's design. If his works, I'll build it and re-install.

UPDAte: Went back to series connection. Still using Drano. Took extended trip to San Antonio and back (400 miles). Actually got 25 WITHOUT HHO and 22 with it. Not good.

Smith03Jetta
07-03-2008, 09:42 AM
Here is my results Post...

JETTA

I'm getting between 920 ml and 1 liter per minute depending on whether the yellow box is cold or warm.

Mixed driving MPG = 32 mpg. (This is driving between 60 and 70 mph and using the Air Conditioner)

This is an improvement from 24 mpg.

The increase is 33% better gas mileage.

I still have more adjustments that I can make to my car's ECU to improve this number.

Attached is a graph I made to demonstrate my MPG improvements. The In-town and highway mileage numbers are interpolated (mathematically derived) based on the ratios of before mileage numbers. The in-town and highway mileage numbers are considered accurate to withing 2 mpg.

My daily driving routine is as follows:
With the AC off...
I drive .3 miles at idle going through my neighborhood out to the main road.
I turn left and drive south at 65 mph to stop sign.
I turn left and drive 10 miles at 60 mph. 4 miles of which is up and down some hills. 6 miles is flat and smooth, slight decline.
I turn left and drive 7 miles at 60, rolling hills. I slow down or stop for one railroad track.
I turn onto interstate and drive 8 miles at 65 mph.
I get off interstate and do in-town, stop and go driving for about 3 or 4 miles.

3 or 4 days a week, I drive in town with the AC on for 6 or 7 miles going out to eat lunch. No speeds above 55.

Then it's back home with AC on.

TOUAREG

I'm building and testing my Pelican Reactor right now. It is producing 1 liter of HHO in 50 to 54 seconds and is drawing only 15 amps. Video proof is on my thread. I have some figuring out to do to get it hooked up to my Touareg.

Mr. Smith

Atechguy
07-15-2008, 05:29 PM
Okay this must be wrong i haven't put my HHO kit on be cause its on bike courier or something , I have a reversed ER efie on my 01 forester 2.5L 5 speed Non- turbo, i originally have mods on the vehicle which i believe caused a richer mixture , but know i got 31.8mi./gal 1st tank, by the way i have oversized tires 2 sizes over stock which does alter my mileage slightly, i also carry my tools and boxes of cable etc ladder inside vehicle, Now i have loss power and occassionally it sputters and bucks once in a while, but i expected to have that happen with out the HHO kit and Map enhancer on. But this 2nd tank mostly highway can't be right OMG! i have 420kms and my gas gauge is 2 notches below a half tanks,now don't say i am cooking my motor or valves , i am running a mixture of lucas/2 cycle oil/ xylene/acetone. I don't recommend anyone try this , :eek:, motor is running cool tail pipe definitely cleaner , i need to run another tanks this can't be right. OHH ya and i treated my engine to XADO a month or more ago .:rolleyes::p

hatch_m
07-15-2008, 11:29 PM
Well i have installed my unit and hooked up my efie. First time running it tonight with efie conntected. Its a 92 Honda Civic 1.6L. Got 45 mpg compared to high 20s before. car has 270000 miles. Will keep it updated.

ridelong
07-16-2008, 10:14 AM
Been playing with hho on my 2003 ranger 2.3 liter for about 4 months now. Have increased my mpg by 37.5%. 343.2miles, 11.142 gallons. 30.8mi/gal.
Baseline was 22.4 mpg.

My setup is 2 sets of 6, +nnnn-, 316 ss, 2.5 inch wide X 4.5 high, 0.067 inch spacing. Quart bottle, 30 oz distilled, with 1/4 tsp potassium hydroxide. Running 4 to 5 amps.

Put in a 1/2 gallon bottle sunday at 7.5 amps, will report when I get data.

7/26/08 25.7% with the 1/2 gallon. I think it dropped from 37.5% because it never got warm.
8/20/08 28% , same setup with more KOH. Increased current from 4-5 amps to 5-6 amps on this run.

dennis13030
07-17-2008, 02:47 AM
2008 Kia Rio

54 MPG before I melted my housing...

Are you referring to your ELECTROLYZER housing or something else on the vehicle?

snapper1d
07-24-2008, 03:06 PM
I have a 73 ford F-100 with a 360 cid engine.It a real gas hog.I was getting exactly 10mpg.I tried one of the w4g units and then added 3 more.I am getting 15.7 mpg now.It runs much smoother and it does not take as long to warm up and run smooth now.Since then I added 2 more units but no more increase in mpg.I built some 3 x 7 plates with a gallon jar to see what I would get and using them as +nnnn--nnnn+.I reduced it by 2 n's.then 2 more n's and the best gas production was at +nn--nn+.I had a lot more gas production but still no more added mpg.I then added another gallon jar with the same plate design.Now there is a rather gas flow.But still no added mpg.I then added a third gallon with the same plate design.Now there is a tremendous gas flow but still no added mpg.I have worked with the timing and checked and reset it by 2 degrees from 12 btdc and going back to tdc but still no added mpg.I am guessing that what is happening is that I am just getting a complete fuel burn at using the 4 W4G units and all the added extra gas is not helping much at all.I have a 200 amp altenuator so I have plenty amps to work with.I dont have a ammeter but there is one on the way.I was wondering if others were experiencing the same thing.One thing I can see for sure is my spark plugs are white as snow.That was quite a surprise to see them like that.That tells me its a really good complete fuel burn.

bobcampbell
07-26-2008, 01:30 AM
I built and installed a flat plate HHO generator on my 1995 Dodge 3500 pickup. The generator delivers about 1.8 LPM. to the aircleaner box before the turcocharger.

My MPG results are exactly as they were before adding the HHO. No improvment at all.

If you have any ideas please e-mail me -> bob-repairs@sbcglobal.net

Bob in Chico

Stratous
07-26-2008, 01:40 AM
I have a 73 ford F-100 with a 360 cid engine.It a real gas hog.I was getting exactly 10mpg.I tried one of the w4g units and then added 3 more.I am getting 15.7 mpg now.It runs much smoother and it does not take as long to warm up and run smooth now.Since then I added 2 more units but no more increase in mpg.I built some 3 x 7 plates with a gallon jar to see what I would get and using them as +nnnn--nnnn+.I reduced it by 2 n's.then 2 more n's and the best gas production was at +nn--nn+.I had a lot more gas production but still no more added mpg.I then added another gallon jar with the same plate design.Now there is a rather gas flow.But still no added mpg.I then added a third gallon with the same plate design.Now there is a tremendous gas flow but still no added mpg.I have worked with the timing and checked and reset it by 2 degrees from 12 btdc and going back to tdc but still no added mpg.I am guessing that what is happening is that I am just getting a complete fuel burn at using the 4 W4G units and all the added extra gas is not helping much at all.I have a 200 amp altenuator so I have plenty amps to work with.I dont have a ammeter but there is one on the way.I was wondering if others were experiencing the same thing.One thing I can see for sure is my spark plugs are white as snow.That was quite a surprise to see them like that.That tells me its a really good complete fuel burn.


It is possible that you have reached an efficiency limit. Hydrogen as a catalyst can only increase the burn of gas/diesel so much. You gained almost 60% in MPG, thats a large increase by any standard. I wish I had gotten 60% myself.

ridelong
07-26-2008, 04:37 PM
Put one on my friends 95 Honda 4 cyl. Went from 19.4 to 29.7 mpg for an 53% increase. Now I'm jealous.

He has it connected to the intake manifold, and the vacuum really helps kick out the gas.

wipeout97
07-28-2008, 07:31 PM
Would just like to thank everyone on this forum for your post and help. My fiance started out with her element getting 19 cty and 22 hwy but with my newest cell I am getting 25-27 cty and 34-40 hwy with the a/c and foot being the variance. Thanks again guys for this forum! You rock!

(thought I would add the 27 cty and 40 hwy are the highest results when I drive, she is the lower and would be a typical drive IMO)

snapper1d
07-28-2008, 10:39 PM
I started with the water4gas unit.I purchased one on ebay.I got scammed!!! That guy never shipped/I did get my money back from paypal though.I did come out alright so I just searched around and found how to make them myself.Well after fitting 4 units on my truck I found they really did work.One day I pulled a plug to see what it looked like.WOW!!! I was amazed.That plug was white as snow and clean as could be.Well I started searching for more info and I found this forum here.I made up plates and different designs and found I could make lots of hho.When I take off and get up to speed and then start letting off the gas I let way off and my truck keeps up the speed and the engine gets really quiet ran runs smooth as silk something has to be good there!!! Under the hood of my 73 ford F-100 is a big block gas hog 360 cid engine.There is still the 4 water4gas units I built plus 3 other gallon sized units with 8 plates each that are turning out lots of hho.I found out the other day just how good they were working.I have a toggle switch inside the cab that is connected to a continious on/off soleniod that I can turn the whole thing on or off with.I turned it off for a couple miles and I was running 45mph thru a construction zone and it was like I had to keep my foot on the gas just to keep it up to speed.Man this hho is some damn good stuff!!! I know for sure it is not a scam.I think if I didnt even get any extra mpg I would still run it because of how good it makes my truck run.

ridelong
07-29-2008, 05:57 PM
snapper1d,

Man I wish I increased my milage by 57%. I have been experimenting for 5 months, and 37.5% is my best so far. Went from 22.4 mpg to 30.8 mpg on a 2003 ford ranger 2.3 liter.

My friend got 53% in his honda, but your the best I've seen so far.

Congratulations!

hatch_m
07-31-2008, 11:56 PM
Up to 57-63 mpgs constantly. Atm Im having a small celebration( by myself). And am slightly intoxicated. but 93 Honda civic .... 1.6 L.... .280 mv added with the efie. about 1 lpm output. I dunno.... maybe its a fluke. I have a hard time believing what my results are but what can you do other than roll with it? :P So far so good and more than 100% increase

liberybell
08-05-2008, 02:50 PM
Up to 57-63 mpgs constantly. Atm Im having a small celebration( by myself). And am slightly intoxicated. but 93 Honda civic .... 1.6 L.... .280 mv added with the efie. about 1 lpm output. I dunno.... maybe its a fluke. I have a hard time believing what my results are but what can you do other than roll with it? :P So far so good and more than 100% increase

Where do you got your EFIE from?

fly
08-09-2008, 02:15 PM
Hi everyone, I'm new to this forum.

I just did my 1st test on my 1st home made cell. Since I live in Canada and we talk more of Km and Liters, I'll stick to actual gain in distance for the volume of gasoline used but will try to convert km to miles as I go along. My installation is quite crude for now, but will refine it eventually. Planning to post photos whenever I can get to it...

I am pleased to announce that with my 1st experiment, I noticed a gain of distance travelled of 22% in a 1.6L Honda Civic DX 2000 (hatchback).
This car typically uses 6.9 to 7 L / 100km travelled. With a gas tank of 44L, I can state that with a fill-up of 42L, I normally travel 600 km (372 miles). That 22% gain boosts it to 732 km (455 miles), not bad at all indeed for a 1st try!


CELL SPECS: For now, 2 plates of steel (4x12" - notches and holes = about 44 sq. in. of surface for electrodes, distanced about 1/8"). Using only my Well water (artesian well, a bit hard water) with NO electrolyte. Cell is drawing about 6.5-7 amps when cold, and gets up to about 9 amps when warm. So far I only compared mileage for a distance of about 363 km, so the % in gain is probably not accurate, will need to drive some more to get a relevant average.

NOTE: This was achieved with a NON-FUNCTIONING Oxygen sensor, so default values for fuel mixture are used by the car computer, eliminating the headache of fooling the ECU.

This is very encouraging, will drive on this system for at least 1 fill-up or 2 to get a "real" average increase in mileage. I will post back with updated figures as I get new ones.

fly
08-09-2008, 02:25 PM
This car typically uses 6.9 to 7 L / 100km travelled.


Woops forgot to mention: My typical driving consists of a mix of country road, highway and city driving: roughly 1/2 highway, 1/4 country, 1/4 city. I drive a bit aggressively in town (stick-shift, yeah!) and usually between 120-130km/hr on the highway (75-80 Mph - Faster than that, consumption increases quite a bit!). I love to zip trough the curves of those country roads...
During my 1st test, I did a lot more city driving than usual...

ridelong
08-15-2008, 08:20 PM
2003 ford ranger 2.3 liter, 5 spd standard. Went from 22.4 to 28.1 mpg.

1/2 gal. distilled, 1 1/2 tsp potassium hydroxide, 2 sets of 6 (+nnnn-) 316 ss plates 2.5 x 4.5 inch, 0.068 spacing

First time running on the intake side. Bottle dosen't seem to get hot, actually did better on the other side of the butterfly (37.5%).

I jacked the amps from 4 - 5 amps to 7 - 8. If I don't do better at next fillup, will move back to upstream of the butterfly.

F150
08-23-2008, 09:34 PM
2002 F150 4.6 5speed 4x4. Was getting 14mpg. Now Im running cool and consistant at 19mpg.
Thank you all for your wisdom and advice.
Neutrals helped.
My container holds half a liter of water, my plates are .125x1x5 spaced 1/16.
My config. is +NNNN-. thats 2.8V per bay.
Im drawing 4.6amps with potassium/sodium hydroxide


10amps gives me 22mpg but I need more water capacity to handle the heat.
__________________

godoveryou
08-26-2008, 11:06 AM
Actually F150, that's still 12-14 volts if the electroylte is in one bath. The electrolyte needs to be isolated for a true voltage drop, otherwise current leak will occur and the voltage gets applied to one common electrolyte.

F150
08-26-2008, 01:58 PM
what do you mean isolate the electrolyte? Your saying that 2.8 x 5 = 14?

smartHHO
08-26-2008, 02:33 PM
Actually F150, that's still 12-14 volts if the electroylte is in one bath. The electrolyte needs to be isolated for a true voltage drop, otherwise current leak will occur and the voltage gets applied to one common electrolyte.

If I am not mistaken, I think he is talking about wrapping your cell. If you have it in the open, the whole batch is electrified, where as if you wrap it, it makes it more condensed to be mainly at the cell and not the whole jar of water. Correct me if I am wrong, but that is what I am getting out of your statement.

SamB52
08-26-2008, 05:08 PM
Actually F150, that's still 12-14 volts if the electroylte is in one bath. The electrolyte needs to be isolated for a true voltage drop, otherwise current leak will occur and the voltage gets applied to one common electrolyte.

How about in the case of the "dry cell" constructed by Ammaninox in Switzerland, GOY? He has the plates each isolated by gaskets from each other, and the only leakage current would be through the holes he bored for elyte flow on the bottom and gas flow on the top...still only getting 7mmw. (He did show a nice, linear stepdown of voltage across each plate in his video.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fF-zdHZGkR8
Would separating the plates with acrylic walls give you the big jump in mmw that your design cells are getting?

BoyntonStu
09-01-2008, 07:11 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oefM-W16jYg

A very believable test.

Well done!


I wish that everyone would use the same testing method!!

However, I just reviewed some past videos and I am not sure if the increased MPG is due to Hydroxy or to H2O.


BoyntonStu

DigitalMocking
09-01-2008, 07:25 PM
I wish we had a standard for testing, or at least some kind of standardized sheet when people do tests like that.

Engine size/displacement, modifications to the MAP/MAF/02/ECU, etc.

His mileage changes could have been anything in that test unfortunately, less headwind for the 2 tanks of gas with hydroxy on would give you 5% more mileage.

justaguy
09-01-2008, 07:33 PM
You have to remember he was only putting out 120 ml pm, i,m surprised he got any mpg gain.

DigitalMocking
09-01-2008, 07:37 PM
You have to remember he was only putting out 120 ml pm, i,m surprised he got any mpg gain.

There have been a number of people who have reported gains using small units like that, mostly in small, older carburated 4 cylinders, but they do report gains.

hydrotinkerer
09-01-2008, 08:24 PM
98 Dodge cummins turbo diesel
Dry cell gen producing 1lpm
19 mpg base 23 mpg enhanced
21.5% increase

Still working on toyota, have more info on that setup later.

justaguy
09-01-2008, 09:04 PM
Yeah, i,m not disputing his gain. He just sounded disapointed that it wasn't more.

watergas
09-02-2008, 01:43 PM
I hooked up a watergas unit in my 2000 Durango
Without tweaking the computer mileage went from 12 in city to 14.9
19.50 hwy to 22.3 highway
say what you will when installed properly it works!!

VanHalen
09-11-2008, 03:28 PM
I have an 84 s10 Blazer carb with a 2.8 V6.
I installed two W4G cells and increased my MPG from 12-16. Not really what I was hoping, but I'll take it. I noticed an increase in power.

BTW will update after I'm done building my PLATE cell.

H2OPWR
09-19-2008, 05:12 PM
1998 Jeep Wrangler 4.0 Automatic. Went from 12 to 16.5 mpg in town and from 15.5 to 29.8 highway. This is an average over 6 months.

gizzy
10-01-2008, 09:20 AM
I been working with my system for 3 months. I usually get 18-20mpg around town and 19-21 mpg highway. I noticed now that I'm getting 22.5-23mpg around town and 28-31 mpg hwy. I am really impressed. I have a modified water for gas system. that I used narrow ss plates and a 15 plate smack design. Both system draw 13 Amps and 12.65 volts... 1/2 tspn koh in the quart mason jar, and 2 tspns in my smack design in 1 gallon system.:D

TreyNC
10-16-2008, 02:04 PM
1994 F-150, 302 4spd auto. I have been working on my generator for a couple of months. Ran last week ported into my air intake past the air filter. No other modification. Showed 1.6mpg loss. Not out of standard gas millage just below adverage.

Have now injected into my vacume system and visually production is much greater, visually by about 2-3 times. Will find out results later this week.


Trey

hitf
11-01-2008, 03:39 PM
I drive a 1994 BMW 540i, it has a 4.0 V8..

The car has 200k miles on it...

Mileage before was 17 city 20-21 on the interstate.

The mileage in the city only went up to 20 and the mileage on the freeway to 27-28.

There is also NO efie installed on the car

I have a cell that looks like this in the car.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/hydrogenworld/Excelsior-box-finished10.jpg

wljohns
11-28-2008, 08:02 PM
I did not get an accurate reading before HHO but was around 20mpg.
Built a $40 tero cell out of wallplates does 1/2 -1 lpm depending on amp draw. I run around 3/4 lpm
Running one extender on the O2 sensor. Got a light and just let it burn

Anyway got a consistent 25mpg after about 1 week or running.
PROBLEM is my CRV idled WAAAAY down. We are talking 150-300rpm idle. It would die sometimes at red lites. But otherwise ran great. Ran it for a month getting 25 mpg. But when it started the low idle I cut unit off. After about 80 miles idle went back to normal. And down to 22mpg. The way I have figured the mileage is different gas stations different driving conditions etc. And average 25 over a month.
Any ideas WHY the low idle. I quit trying to cut off the CEL and just lrt it burn.

Painless
11-28-2008, 08:05 PM
I did not get an accurate reading before HHO but was around 20mpg.
Built a $40 tero cell out of wallplates does 1/2 -1 lpm depending on amp draw. I run around 3/4 lpm
Running one extender on the O2 sensor. Got a light and just let it burn

Anyway got a consistent 25mpg after about 1 week or running.
PROBLEM is my CRV idled WAAAAY down. We are talking 150-300rpm idle. It would die sometimes at red lites. But otherwise ran great. Ran it for a month getting 25 mpg. But when it started the low idle I cut unit off. After about 80 miles idle went back to normal. And down to 22mpg. The way I have figured the mileage is different gas stations different driving conditions etc. And average 25 over a month.
Any ideas WHY the low idle. I quit trying to cut off the CEL and just lrt it burn.

How are you delivering your HHO? If it's via vacuum I would recommend checking for vacuum leaks.

wljohns
11-28-2008, 09:03 PM
No vaccuum and no leaks. Only thing that changed is I cut OFF the power switch. Delivered via air intake tube just before butterfly.

Randohr
12-07-2008, 08:59 PM
I'm running brute force systems with an inline 1 ohm 225W resistor as my "current limiter" circuit. This clamps my current at @ 14 amps and divides the voltage so I get @ 3 vdc (14A) at the cell. I saturate the KOH in the cell (1L H2O capacity) to maximize conduction and minimize freezing. My plate area is maximized for the available space. I was not satisfied with the series cells & PWM set-ups, too many variables. I have 2.5 systems install so far. My F150 went from 15 hwy to 22 hwy, my cavalier is still in testing (gas tank issues) and my Jeep is 80% complete. I'm running 9v battery efie's on my first two builds w/ @ 250mv bias. Work's great. I'm trying Eagle research's efies for my next system. Having trouble locating the O2 wiring at the ECM tonight. Might have to get a manual. So to recap...40% + efficiency increase on the F150 (1991 4.9L 4x4), Cavalier & Jeep results soon. Isn't this fun.:D

gizzy
12-09-2008, 09:38 AM
I been working with my system for 3 months. I usually get 18-20mpg around town and 19-21 mpg highway. I noticed now that I'm getting 22.5-23mpg around town and 28-31 mpg hwy. I am really impressed. I have a modified water for gas system. that I used narrow ss plates and a 15 plate smack design. Both system draw 13 Amps and 12.65 volts... 1/2 tspn koh in the quart mason jar, and 2 tspns in my smack design in 1 gallon system.:D

After running my generators on my blazer for a time now I installed a pwm and and it really made a difference. Now I'm getting from 18-21 around town before to 23-25mph. And 29-31 on the highway. The improvement has been consistant and The clean exhaust with no carbon is very impressive. The HP is very noticed also.

redneck323
12-12-2008, 08:33 AM
After 2 months of tinkering with my cell (i have a screwed up schedule) i finally flipped the switch on my home built 7 lowes plate set up / my first cell and after much skepticism i finally see what all the hype is!!! I went from 17 mpg to 21 mpg first try (till i blew a fuse thanks to thermal runaway) but man does that make ya feel like a kid again whew!! Actual results!!! By the way this forum rocks!! lots of smart folks!!!
Thanks for the help, Carl!!:)

Randohr
12-15-2008, 05:26 PM
I got my first results from my Cavalier yesterday. My base results where 23mpg with "normal driving", combination of back roads /up & down the hills, city and some highway. I've been driving this car for over 13 years and the best I ever got was 29 on the interstate driving from gas station to gas station. (Z24 w/ 3.1L) I netted 31.5 mpg with about 3 hours of my "normal driving". This car has never seen this good. (We've had her since she was born.)
That's about a 37% increase+-. My cell did heat up to about 60 F from a start temp of @32 F during the run. I insulated it to try to retain what little heat it makes. The volts, current and flow remained solid from start to finish. (tested before and after the driving, not during.) I need to do a road trip just to see what the highway miles are.
I'm also now in the process of testing my Jeep Liberty. I had a few setbacks with wiring to the wrong O2 sensor and a broken toggle switch. All is fixed now. My efie's (x2) are set to @ 220mvdc and it looks like the computer is compensating so far. I have about 20 miles on it so far. I splurged on a scangaugeII so I can watch the O2 sensors & the MPG's live. For the last 5.5 years, the base mpg averaged about 15-18mpgs up and down the hills. My goal is 23+. I'll keep you posted.

hhothekilla
01-03-2009, 03:30 AM
Gents and Ladies! I am new to this forum so, hello to all!! I had a 4 tube design. 316L SS (2) 1" center electrodes and (2) 3" outer electrodes. About 1lpm and I got a 50% to 60% increase in fuel mileage on my 92 Isuzu trooper during our last trip of about 820 miles! Phenominal results I do say! Of course, going from 10mpg to 15mpg isn't anything to really brag about. Due to heat issues, I had to scrap the center electrodes because the metal had been boiled. It also created way too much brown sludge. I was looking around on the internet last night and came across another design I decided to try. The twister design I saw on youtube done by dallasgoldbug. Essentially using odd numbers of SS condiment cups in a vertical series. I got it built today, tested it and I got about 2 LPM running 8 amps with 3 tps of sodium hydroxide to 1/2 gallon of distilled water. Not too bad! :eek: I'll be road testing it soon!

gashead
01-16-2009, 12:04 PM
been testing a 2006 kia spectra, i was using water4gas design with 1 tsp baking soda and distilled water. this netted an 8.7 mpg increase before it melted and twisted the plexyglass tower. i then put 2 cells on the car with 1/2 tsp b-soda and got 9 mpg before it started blowing the 10 amp fuse ( had it linked to the daylight running lights) im currently running one cell that is made up of 304 ss grill grate +n- with one tsp baking soda getting about 7-8 mpg increase, when i figure out how to run a dedicated power supply to the cells ( without using a switch ) im going to step it up and see what happens

hhothekilla
02-02-2009, 11:45 PM
Hey everyone. I'm back again with a whole new cell. I decided to build a dry cell. The plates are 6"x6" 316L SS. 12 total arranged at +nnn-nnn+nnn-. I have 40 mil shower pan liner cut and stacked 2 between each plate. About 1/16" between each plate when compressed. The two positive and two negative plates have a notch on one end for 14 gauge female spade terminal connectors. One for each plate. I'm using 1/2" plexyglass for my ends and 16 1/4" nylon bolts and nuts to hold everything together. I have a 48oz resivoir about 1 foot above the top of the cell. I have run the cell for about 4 hours at a time, around 10 times now. Wires run a bit hot, but don't melt or smoke. I'm running 6 teaspoons of drain cleaner/gallon. I just ran two tests tonight. First test:

Amps: 8.9
Voltage: 12.4
Watts: 110.36
ML/Min: 1666.62

MMW: 15.101 :D

Second test:

Amps: 8.2
Voltage: 12.1
Watts: 99.22
ML/Min: 1538.4

MMW: 15.504:D

Pretty phenominal! Oh, ZERO CURRENT LEAKAGE!!!! Plus, my plates are clean as a whistle!

If anyone needs pictures, please feel free to pm me.

Thanks

H2OPWR
02-03-2009, 12:28 AM
Hey everyone. I'm back again with a whole new cell. I decided to build a dry cell. The plates are 6"x6" 316L SS. 12 total arranged at +nnn-nnn+nnn-. I have 40 mil shower pan liner cut and stacked 2 between each plate. About 1/16" between each plate when compressed. The two positive and two negative plates have a notch on one end for 14 gauge female spade terminal connectors. One for each plate. I'm using 1/2" plexyglass for my ends and 16 1/4" nylon bolts and nuts to hold everything together. I have a 48oz resivoir about 1 foot above the top of the cell. I have run the cell for about 4 hours at a time, around 10 times now. Wires run a bit hot, but don't melt or smoke. I'm running 6 teaspoons of drain cleaner/gallon. I just ran two tests tonight. First test:

Amps: 8.9
Voltage: 12.4
Watts: 110.36
ML/Min: 1666.62

MMW: 15.101 :D

Second test:

Amps: 8.2
Voltage: 12.1
Watts: 99.22
ML/Min: 1538.4

MMW: 15.504:D

Pretty phenominal! Oh, ZERO CURRENT LEAKAGE!!!! Plus, my plates are clean as a whistle!

If anyone needs pictures, please feel free to pm me.

Thanks

Those are truely amazing results if truely accurate. Did you measure both cell and gas temps. Those numbers are WAY over unity. Please post pics and maybe some video if you can. Just a guess but I would bet there is some steam involved.

Larry

hhothekilla
02-03-2009, 01:28 AM
You know, I though so too. But the cell is cool to the touch and the gas comming out is cold. I also ran the gas out tube to a open top bubbler and made sure that the bubbles were indeed hydrogen.

I dont have a thermoprobe yet so I cannot measure temps.

I will post pics and hopefully videos tomarrow.

Here's the formula I used to get my MMW.

The cell ran 1 liter in 36 seconds, or 1000ml in 36 seconds. Thats 27.77ml/sec. Multiply 27.77ml by 30 seconds comes out to be 833.31ml. Multiply that by two and I got 1666.62ml in 1 min.

Amps x Volts = Watts
ML per Min / Watts = MMW

Is that the correct formula?

H2OPWR
02-03-2009, 01:53 AM
You know, I though so too. But the cell is cool to the touch and the gas comming out is cold. I also ran the gas out tube to a open top bubbler and made sure that the bubbles were indeed hydrogen.

I dont have a thermoprobe yet so I cannot measure temps.

I will post pics and hopefully videos tomarrow.

Here's the formula I used to get my MMW.

The cell ran 1 liter in 36 seconds, or 1000ml in 36 seconds. Thats 27.77ml/sec. Multiply 27.77ml by 30 seconds comes out to be 833.31ml. Multiply that by two and I got 1666.62ml in 1 min.

Amps x Volts = Watts
ML per Min / Watts = MMW

Is that the correct formula?

That is one way to come out with correct mil's per minute but your test results are so far over any that I have ever seen that something seems wrong. Either you must be measuring steam or your amp or volt or both measurements are somehow wrong. Those MMW readings are so far over unity that it would solve all the worlds energy issues. At those results you could run a generator that provided all the electricity to power your cell and with what was left over you still would out perform everyone else. I truely hope those results are correct but I have my doubts. Please share all you can. I hope we all can learn something here.

Larry

cully
02-03-2009, 03:01 AM
what power supply are you using ?


Amps: 8.9
Voltage: 12.4
Watts: 110.36
ML/Min: 1666.62

MMW: 15.101

Second test:

Amps: 8.2
Voltage: 12.1
Watts: 99.22
ML/Min: 1538.4


i ask the question because in your second test
the voltage has reduced and the current has also
normally if the cell voltage decreases the current goes up !

i suspect you are running battery's that were becoming empty and a charger that cant keep up


if your figures are right i congratulate you..
it would be nice to see some pictures or video

Painless
02-03-2009, 09:04 AM
I hate to be negative, and also hope I'm wrong, but I share Larry and Cully's scepticism.

With the 0.40" pan liner and on 3 neutrals you're running at about 3 volts plus per cell. Also, the fact that the wires are getting hot says that something is amiss, what gauge wire did you use?

The cell does not necessarily need to get to the boiling point of water for water vapour to be in your gas stream, but I suspect that that's what's happening here. If you later on move this unit to your vehicle, your cell voltage will be even higher.

However, it may also be the case that the water vapour will be great for your vehicle as it also assists the power stroke, however, if you're using potassium hydroxide or sodium hydroxide you'll be ringing the dinner bell for your aluminium engine parts.

One thing I would recommend is to get yourself a big bucket, filled with cold water and the longest piece of hose you can find. Run the HHO outlet from your system through this hose and put as much of the hose into the bucket as you can. Take your readings again from the end of the hose. If there's a drastic change, then you can safely say that you are generating a lot of vapour.

Russ.

hhothekilla
02-03-2009, 09:29 AM
what power supply are you using ?




i ask the question because in your second test
the voltage has reduced and the current has also
normally if the cell voltage decreases the current goes up !

i suspect you are running battery's that were becoming empty and a charger that cant keep up


if your figures are right i congratulate you..
it would be nice to see some pictures or video


Cully, I'm using a new speed charger. The reason why the second test was with less voltage and amps is because I turned off the charger and let the cell run just on the battery.

hhothekilla
02-03-2009, 09:41 AM
I hate to be negative, and also hope I'm wrong, but I share Larry and Cully's scepticism.

With the 0.40" pan liner and on 3 neutrals you're running at about 3 volts plus per cell. Also, the fact that the wires are getting hot says that something is amiss, what gauge wire did you use?

The cell does not necessarily need to get to the boiling point of water for water vapour to be in your gas stream, but I suspect that that's what's happening here. If you later on move this unit to your vehicle, your cell voltage will be even higher.

However, it may also be the case that the water vapour will be great for your vehicle as it also assists the power stroke, however, if you're using potassium hydroxide or sodium hydroxide you'll be ringing the dinner bell for your aluminium engine parts.

One thing I would recommend is to get yourself a big bucket, filled with cold water and the longest piece of hose you can find. Run the HHO outlet from your system through this hose and put as much of the hose into the bucket as you can. Take your readings again from the end of the hose. If there's a drastic change, then you can safely say that you are generating a lot of vapour.

Russ.


Russ, I believe they are 14 gauge wires. Only the negative set of wires are getting hot. The reason why the positive isnt getting hot is because I have a switch connected from the cell then about 12 gauge wire from the switch to the battery.

Where I live its about 20 degress F outside in the garage. Before I run the cell, the water is already the outside temperature. Plus, since I have plexiglass. I can see if im getting any steam on the inside of the cell. I haven't seen any. Boiling point is about 200F right? Even if I'm getting close to that, lets say 180F. Wouldn't I be able to feel the cell and it should be hot?

Q-Hack!
02-03-2009, 10:53 AM
Just out of curiosity... how are you measuring your amps? ie. shunt meter, clamp meter, or automotive meter? How do you have it wired up?

hhothekilla
02-03-2009, 07:31 PM
I'm measuring amps using an automotive digital multimeter that is auto ranging. I set it on uA to get the amps. I also tried setting it on A but I get .089 whereas I get 8.5 on the uA setting. I have the positive probe connected to the first plate and the negative probe connected to the fourth plate. My stack is +nnn-nnn+nnn-.

H2OPWR
02-03-2009, 08:35 PM
I'm measuring amps using an automotive digital multimeter that is auto ranging. I set it on uA to get the amps. I also tried setting it on A but I get .089 whereas I get 8.5 on the uA setting. I have the positive probe connected to the first plate and the negative probe connected to the fourth plate. My stack is +nnn-nnn+nnn-.

You need to measure the amps at the wire's feeding the entire cell. You will not get anywhere near accurate readings trying to measure amp draw at the plates. The setting must be on A.

Larry

Painless
02-03-2009, 09:19 PM
Larry is correct, you must connect the ammeter in series with the cell positive, I.e:

Batt+ - ammeter negative - ammeter positive - cell positive feed...

The way you have it connected it will only read the amount of amps that travels through the ammeter for its own load, not the cell.

Russ.

cully
02-04-2009, 03:47 AM
I'm measuring amps using an automotive digital multimeter that is auto ranging. I set it on uA to get the amps. I also tried setting it on A but I get .089 whereas I get 8.5 on the uA setting. I have the positive probe connected to the first plate and the negative probe connected to the fourth plate. My stack is +nnn-nnn+nnn-.


you have probably fryed your meter by connecting the meter across the load set to Amps .as you have dead shorted your supply line.

check to see if you have any fuses left in the meter or meter leads

hhothekilla
02-04-2009, 09:41 AM
you have probably fryed your meter by connecting the meter across the load set to Amps .as you have dead shorted your supply line.

check to see if you have any fuses left in the meter or meter leads



Both the fuses are ok and my leads are fine.

Oh, by the way my wire heat up issue is because I'm using 16 gauge wire.

hhothekilla
02-05-2009, 08:20 PM
I swapped the wires out to 10 gauge. No heat problems and my voltage and amps went up a bit. Voltage 11.55 and Amps 9.5. I'm looking into a hydrogen flow meter. Kinda expensive.

VanHalen
02-20-2009, 08:06 PM
I sold my shop teacher and simple wet cell 7 plate series smack, and he stuck it in his 1995 suburban I think, not sure of the exact vehicle but a larger suv. 2.5 MPG increase with nothing else. I thought this was pretty decent.

hydroxmobile
05-09-2009, 02:00 AM
KIA Pregio 2.7D with 30% fuel savings with HM160 and PWM.

HydrogenSingapore
05-12-2009, 12:53 PM
Take a look at 13 tube in tubes video (senior stan meyer cell)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cscJUwHIA10

Rvrvr
06-20-2009, 03:29 PM
hi im new to this site, i just hooked up a March labs 21 plate dry cell on a 1989 5.9 mopar ram 250 it seems to working well lots of gas is comming off taking more than 25 amps so im going to change out my fluid soon and put weaker fluid in im woried about my alternator, it seems to be foaming iv only used 1/2 a tank of feul so far and havnt done a milage test yet but i will be doing one soon iv made 5 35 km round trips and the feul guage is still above 1/2 seems to using less feul :)

diesel133
06-30-2009, 11:21 PM
This thread is only for posting the results of your installation. If you need to make changes to your increase or god forbid decrease in MPG then please edit your original post. This thread is to make believers out of the non-believers. Thanks

My Testamonial for my 2006 3/4 Ton Dodge cummins Turbo Diesel is:
Stock MPG in town - 17.7 mpg
After install MPG - 24.3 mpg



Put a map sensor enhancer on, I've put them on an 02 cummins and 2 two 02 duramaxes and that helped double their mileage.

Jager
07-27-2009, 10:37 AM
7/27/09
1990 Bronco II, 2.9L V6 w/180K, 4x4 31/10.5 x 15 tires and wheels , 5 speed manual (engine not smoking)
8 SS plate +NNNNNN- 1L generator
KOH W/ distilled water.
Single 02 extender
Baseline mileage without HHO 18.9 mpm

Current observations and proposed upgrades....
-Exhaust is smoking, seemed to be running rich
-Will add second 02 extender to pull sensor further out of exhaust stream.
-Ordered constant current PWM,
-looking to build dry cell using Titanium plates
-I keep blowing starter relays and fuses, I'm suspend testing until I install new PWM

Jager


8/1/09

Ran mileage numbers on latest fill up, Mileage went from 18.9 to 13 and change. I contribute some of the loss to the many minutes idling, showing people the set up and working on installation.

Running SS wall plate wet cell design. +NNNN-NNNN+
KOH/distilled water
Will need to add reservoir to keep solution cool.
PWM coming
Duel extender for 02 sensor (should I even bother)
Looking for way to flash ECU to except new 02 data rather then tricking computer

I've noticed increase in power and smoother running engine.
I need to control solution temps by adding reservoir also number of amps delivered to generator keeping draw between 7-10amps. Any more then that and I using the engine to produce more electricity then the HHO cell can produce in added power.

Sometime I wonder if anyone is truly saving money on these systems. Fun to experiment, Will continue to forge ahead with new add ons and see what's at the end of the tunnel.

Jager

soda_pop503
07-28-2009, 03:46 PM
Did ours with a 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee, 122K miles on it, ran rough after engine start (for a couple minutes) for several months before we started working with HHO, and had an engine light before HHO. Used the Power Tube Kit from YouTube video.

Interesting. I'm getting 8mpg more with HHO, just like you are. I went from 16 to 24mpg. Still, however, we're just getting started and are continuing with more changes.

Also, even when I turned off the HHO, the engine had a great effect -- we were still getting 24mpg, as if the process cleaned out the engine, and then the engine light we had on for several months (before we experimented with HHO) went out.

We're using the Power Tube Kit from YouTube, using 1 tablespoon of baking soda per 1.5cups of water currently until I can get my hands on lye or potash in two days. We're also using aluminum plate inside the tube instead of the recommended stainless steel, but will be replacing that soon.

We're going back to the workbench from here on out to get this more scientific and optimal before putting it back in the Cherokee again.

If you turned your HHO generator off and still continued to get 24 MPG, then the improvement was not from the HHO burning. Theoretically it could have cleaned things up though.

Buster
09-06-2009, 10:25 AM
Suzuki Baleno 1997, 1.6 engine: originally 27MPG around town, 39MPG on a run keeping under 60MPH. Now does 45MPG around town, 60MPG on a run at under 60MPH. so 53-66% increase in MPG and it drives like a dream. These results are from many tank fulls to be sure of accuracy. Had results as high as 67MPG but couldn't be sure of accuracy.
Please remember that tthese are for European gallons.
Around 20A draw for best results using our Drycells and PWM mostly, no O2 jobs or other stuff, keeping it simple.

Have had varying results with other cars, some much less increase in MPG, but always seem to get better performance without fail. I would say that 25% is more likely the norm, unless the advantage is used up in performance.

You gotta' love HHO!!

n5zkz
03-20-2010, 11:20 PM
before HHO, 12 mpg with a new re-man engine.
first HHO, crude pvc tube, 8 plates +-+-+-+- config, very low output.
now almost 15 mpg.
building a new tero cell, -nnnnn+nnnnn- config with 6" x 7" plates (or close to it).
post results when I get it done. (might be a while)

Autowrench
06-15-2010, 06:05 PM
Hello all,
I installed my unit, the Mason jar reactor, about two weeks ago on my 1990 Chevy G-20 Full size Van, all 4300 pounds of her, plus a 350 ci V-8 engine with TPI. We were getting maybe 20-22 mpg, and I had done many things to boost my mileage, High Energy ignition system, a Fuel Boss fuel ionizer, (too rare earth magnets attached to the fuel line) frequent tune ups, tires pumped up to 40 psi, new MAP sensor, etc. Installed the unit, and my miles per gallon immediately went up to near 40 for highway, and 35 city. We do not yet have our MAP Sensor Enhancer installed, and I am already real happy with the installation. We put ours in the Charcoal Canister shell, cut it down and made cooling holes on the sides, the unit sits in there nice, and can be raised and set on the core support for easy refilling, cleaning, and showing off.

That being said, pay attention here! We have ours on a toggle switch to battery, not wired through the ignition switch. I left it on for three hours. The acrylic tower twisted into a new shape, requiring me to tighten up the wires to make the unit produce. I have ordered a new tower, and now have a nice, bright amber light installed in the dash that I cannot help but see. The thing in a hydrogen reactor, you know, and left on long enough, it could explode, and spew hot, exited water onto how engine parts, causing a fire. One thing, for those who are worried about the Mason jar, it didn't even crack. My Mom used to pour boiling hot liquids into them when canning.

Success! Take that, Big Oil!

lhazleton
06-16-2010, 01:11 PM
Ok, guess I'll be the first........
You're claiming that with one of those mason jar/wire/baking soda "reactors", you've basically doubled your MPG's? Interesting, to say the least, since a 350 (5.7L) needs at least 2.5 to 3 LPM HHO to do anything at all.
Mason jar thingy's might put out 150 ml. per minute at around 20 amps. if you're lucky, as long as everything's sealed well.
Most of the folks experimenting with oxyhydrogen spend a minimum of hundreds of dollars hoping for a 10 to 20 percent increase.
You might want to post some pictures, videos, stat's, etc..

astrocady
06-16-2010, 01:41 PM
Ok, guess I'll be the first........
.

You said it for all of us, my friend.

lhazleton
06-16-2010, 04:19 PM
Ya know Steve, I really thought that this would have been a friggin' field day in here! Either knowledgeable members are holding their tongues, or they're still laughing too hard to type.

H2OPWR
06-16-2010, 06:52 PM
Ya know Steve, I really thought that this would have been a friggin' field day in here! Either knowledgeable members are holding their tongues, or they're still laughing too hard to type.

Or we are just so tired of hearing the same old mason jar story that we are starting to ignore these types of comments. They seem to always get posted then you never hear from them again.

Larry

BioFarmer93
06-16-2010, 09:01 PM
It probably made so much steam that any gains were from water injection, and a weee bit of HHO. And, just a theory, but the reason we never hear from them again is that after a thrashing the likes of which has just been delivered here, who in their right mind would want to come back for more, I axe you?

Autowrench
06-17-2010, 10:57 AM
Ok, guess I'll be the first........
You're claiming that with one of those mason jar/wire/baking soda "reactors", you've basically doubled your MPG's? .

As I said, I have done a lot of other things to the engine too, I am a retied automotive engineer, and know ways to double mileage without a generator, that is simply icing on the cake. Upgrading your ignition system to 50,000 volts helps a lot, and the right plugs, primary wires, cam and lifters, engine timing, all are a factor. The latest test we ran we were getting 39 mpg on the highway.

lhazleton
06-18-2010, 07:55 PM
O.K., now you don't sound like a BS artist:D
Being an engineer, you should really build a drycell reactor. If you research them, you'll be able to see why they're so much better than the 'wet cell' approach. As I'm sure you know, the key to improving MPG's and performance is efficiency.

Roland Jacques
07-29-2010, 08:59 PM
As I said, I have done a lot of other things to the engine too, I am a retied automotive engineer, and know ways to double mileage without a generator, that is simply icing on the cake. Upgrading your ignition system to 50,000 volts helps a lot, and the right plugs, primary wires, cam and lifters, engine timing, all are a factor. The latest test we ran we were getting 39 mpg on the highway.

I'm sure im NOT alone here in saying, "i do think your claims are possible". (maybe in the minority) But I can tell you for sure that most who make 100% plus gain claims are full of BS.

I would like to here more about your project van. What was the single best Mod you did for MPG?( besides HHO). Could you list them in order? Thanks Roland

timothy
08-01-2010, 09:03 AM
I've been tinkering with hho for a couple of years on my 94 suburban, 5.7 TBI. The best I've been able to get is about a 10% increase in MPG, however I do see a noticeable increase in power. I started out building wet cells that generated around 1 lpm but as everyone knows heating was a problem as well as the amp draw. I finally broke down and bought a duel dry cell set up that works much better. It is making 3-4 lpm at about 25-28 amps. To be on the safe side I installed a continuous duty coil and pull power directly off of the battery rather than through the wiring harness, I burnt up the ignition switch about a year ago and it was not fun to replace. 39 MPG sounds a little high to me but who knows. I do believe that mid to upper 20's are achievable on a Chevy TBI. I bought a 91 half ton 4X4 new and it normally got around 20 MPG, but I think the quality of gasoline was much better 20 years ago. I am going to try out some of the things that the above gentleman did to his van, performance coil, new MAP sensor, etc. I've also been reading about Sea Foam so I'm going to run that through the fuel system also. My truck has 300,000 miles on it but the engine is still tight plus I perform regular maintenance including using synthetic oil. I'll keep checking back to update any gains and hopefully give some new ideas.

sokeway
11-27-2010, 02:12 AM
Is that true? Steam considered it? Boiling water

mytoyotasucks
12-05-2010, 10:16 AM
Is that true? Steam considered it? Boiling water

yes, means ur cell is getting too hot, and wasting power and efficiency.

chevymike
02-15-2011, 03:34 PM
Also, even when I turned off the HHO, the engine had a great effect -- we were still getting 24mpg, as if the process cleaned out the engine, and then the engine light we had on for several months (before we experimented with HHO) went out.


If you turned your HHO generator off and still continued to get 24 MPG, then the improvement was not from the HHO burning. Theoretically it could have cleaned things up though.

I'm pulling my hair out here. HHO on the vehicle in question, and most of these OBDII cars leans out fuel. Thats why everyone says their engine is more powerful, lean=mean. ECM relearns fuel trims over time, adjusts and after a while gas mileage isn't that spectacular anymore (very few newer cars this won't happen, diesel & older OBDI i dunno, carbs go ahead with HHO). Some people may have short term success on OBDII efi with HHO just because the gas is injected so inefficiently while driving there are large quantities and then short voids that the computer has a hard time relearning. Or there may be an inherent problem with the vehicles sensors or maybe cat or something to begin with. Then people will keep adding more gas as the computer tries to correct a lean condition and the process takes longer.

Then gas mileage drops one day and you pay 90$ for something to throw off voltage to the o2 sensor, and the process starts over. Then another 100$ for something to change voltage to the MAF, and the computer starts to relearn again. ahh!. All this $$$ spent on HHO, play with it in the garage, wait till you buy a car with a carb or can tune well. Call a mail order tune company and talk to them, send in your PCM, have it reprogrammed for a 'gas mileage' tune. They will lean out the fuel and advance timing on high octane tables. Pay for 93 octane, get 2-4mpg+ with the tune and use less right foot, pay for 89 octane get nothing, its all in the tune (its not practical to tune low octane tables via mail its a failsafe to fall back on). This is only 90-120$. This is a very similar effect as adding HHO, but it doesn't go away- the settings are programmed into the PCM. Pay a few hundred and get a little more mileage and advice from a local experienced tuner who does not have to standardize & limit the tune as much as a mail order place.

Didn't mean to drag this thread off topic. Some people are actually doing this the right way and I'm sure have real results that don't go away.

sirrahnor
02-16-2011, 11:57 AM
Iv"e been using it for five years. Have it in a 1984 Toyota motor home, 1990 F350 Diesel, Large Diesel box van, 1956 Thunderbird, 2000 Dodge neon, and two Harley, Have over 25000 miles on Toyota, This was my first test car, 22R motors are easy to replace and had nothing but good to say about it. I was going up a big grade at 40,45 mph getting 13 mpg, put hho on and went 65,70 at 16 mpg. After that I put it on everything I own. Not just good mileage but ran better then ever before. The power you get is insane. The boxvan could only go 15 mph up hill now it gets better then 55mph and no smoke. Check out my Flicker page out, Google sirrahnor any Questions just ask you can get my contact info from Google.

Dpt618
04-30-2011, 01:17 PM
I have installed my dry cell and it has been in use for about a week and although the improvement was not instantaneous after 100 or so miles I have been showing some improvements judging by my gas gauge.I also have a scangauge but im not trusting its readings. 46mpg to work 42mpg back. Last summer my best mpg was 41.7.The car also is running extremely smooth. Still have improvements to make to my cell it is very basic right now.I am also running an efie at about .1v. Hope to improve my mileage to 50mpg soon!

vivian
06-07-2011, 06:22 AM
good luck for all

lemonhan
06-21-2011, 03:53 AM
y friend got 53% in his honda, but your the best I've seen so far.

DJLapri
06-30-2011, 03:01 PM
02 Chevy Avalanche 5.3L
2 tbsp KOH per gal at 22 amps, also a Volo FS2. Currently getting 21 mpg highway driving the ups and downs of Connecticut highways.

Not sure what else I can do for better mileage. Still happy for the increase

yellowjkjeep
07-09-2011, 01:55 PM
I made my own dry cell. 11 plate (+NNNN-NNNN+). I run KOH (1/2 tbsp per quart of distilled water as electrolyte. Fed into secondary bubbler, then into intake right before butterfly valve. Volo FS2 chip. 2010 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon Unlimited (4" lift, 35" tires). Stock milage was about 17.5, down to 13.5 after lift/tires. Ran HHO without PWM for one tank (30 amps=2LPM) and saw absolutely no increase. Installed PWM at 50% duty cycle keeps amps at 15 and produces just over 1LPM. Reset chip and ran another 22 gallon tank. Still no increase. I have not run any scientific test runs like same pump, same ..... but I always use same gas station, and pretty much have the same driving environment as I live in houston and the land is flat. half city/half highway. I am very impressed with the set up I built. I believe it is about as effecient a cell there is, but I am not getting any improvement in mileage. Any ideas?

yellowjkjeep
07-09-2011, 01:57 PM
also have 1996 Jeep i want to install in if i see results as well as 1992 Isuzu pick up.

DJLapri
07-20-2011, 09:47 PM
Finally getting results to make me smile. :D
took a while to get to a formula for results.

5.3L 2002 Chevy Avalanche,
I have an 18 plate dry cell,
running 10tbsp koh at 15amps. (don't know how many lpm it's creating)

anyhow, it's mostly highway mileage, originally was doing about 18mpg highway, this past week hit 22.7 mpg, and that is on not-so flat land and A/C pumping with this 90 degree heat.

Anxious to see how I do this coming week hauling 6,000lbs of camper to upstate NY.

a big thank you to Mike for his communication recently..

Havens78
09-06-2011, 06:58 PM
Personal Results

Family Car 2006 Nissan Altima 2.5 Liter 4 cyl.
Previous Mileage of 21.5 city and 30 hwy.
Addition of HHO Mileage 25 city and best hwy is 48, 44 is average on hwy.

Bought Cell from HHO kits direct
Single (appears to be 8 plates) cell
4 TBSP of NaOH is producing 1.5 liters a minute at 18-20 amps


1993 Silverado 1500 2wd 5.7 liter engine city mileage increased from 12.5 to 16.45.
pvc wet cell design, 16 plates running at 20 amps.

Mr_The_Carper
09-24-2011, 06:18 AM
Been playing with hho on my 2003 ranger 2.3 liter for about 4 months now. Have increased my mpg by 37.5%. 343.2miles, 11.142 gallons. 30.8mi/gal.
Baseline was 22.4 mpg.

My setup is 2 sets of 6, +nnnn-, 316 ss, 2.5 inch wide X 4.5 high, 0.067 inch spacing. Quart bottle, 30 oz distilled, with 1/4 tsp potassium hydroxide. Running 4 to 5 amps.

Put in a 1/2 gallon bottle sunday at 7.5 amps, will report when I get data.

7/26/08 25.7% with the 1/2 gallon. I think it dropped from 37.5% because it never got warm.
8/20/08 28% , same setup with more KOH. Increased current from 4-5 amps to 5-6 amps on this run.

and you too drive on small amps :D

I drive skoda felicija 1.9diesel...no electronic garbage
cell is without holes,isolated and flooded in electrolite 20% NaOH in pipe container...electrodes 250x50mm,-nnnnnn+ ...3A-0.4lpm...
-before hho 6-6.5l/100km
-now 4l/100km...that is cell for winter,because for 3 month temp.
-10c...-20c..

rocky62
01-08-2012, 01:52 PM
Just built a small generator out of a tread mill motor, made blades out of s 40 pvc. Mounted to rear of my ford ranger and I'm running my hho from the output of the generator with only a fuse and amp meter in line. I'm pulling about 1.7 amps at 50 mph. Not using my alternator-battery in the vehicle. Compensated for wind drag with a flow through tailgate. Blades on generator are only about 9" long about 21" dia. Need to add lye to mix in hho generator for better output and also need to file blades for better airfoil,just ruff cut for now. Look a little stupid running down the road wit a fan on the back of my truck but it's working. Don't know for sure about the hho output for now but using the car battery I pulled about 2.5 to 5 amps.I'm putting pulsating dc into the cell.Happy trails.

hhofox
01-11-2012, 09:46 AM
Hi everyone,

I am new to this forum, but have been getting into this HHO stuff for almost a year now. I am currently at the point where I am seeking to make and install HHO units for others -since it really does work! My test car is a 1991 Corolla Hatchback (Japanese type). It has a carb, no computer, and a 1.3L engine, so you know it's ready for HHO with no hassle.
Right now, I finish the week with a little less than 1/2 tank of gas. Normally, it would be about 1/4 tank, so I can easily see savings there.
It is kinda hard to calculate the actual mileage right now, since between my wife and I, the car's carrying around approx 400 lbs of weight. That affects the mileage for sure -and we also pick up a co-worker at times.
The tank holds a little over 10 gallons. Also, we are using 87 E10 (in Jamaica), so you know we get a bit less power due to the 10% ethanol present in the gasoline.
The bottom line is that it works well.
I will have to remove the HHO unit for a week to get my current base mileage.
Then I could get the proper gains to show the %, but it's kind hard to do than when I am saving at least $1,500 per week. That's approx. $17 USD.
:):D
BTW...dry cell is the way to go! ;)

Like some of you here, I started with the Water4Gas jar setup. I have had to do a LOT of improvisation, since the parts are not readily available in Jamaica. After much research, I built many types of wet-cell electrolyzers. However, after building my first dry cell and checking the output, I can say that the two designs are worlds apart when it comes to output and efficiency, among other things. The wet cell was practically a waste of time, but I learned a WHOLE lot by starting out that way.

Darrell
01-11-2012, 10:16 AM
Welcome to the forum Fox. There is a ton of info in this forum and good people as well. Darrell

hhofox
01-11-2012, 01:50 PM
Thanks for the welcome!
I have been here before, but decided to become a member only after I got a good electrolyser installed.
My setup is currently a home made...
-13 plate Dry Cell (2P,1N,10 Neutrals. +NNNNN-NNNNN+ ).
-5.5"x7" SS plates (cut with metal-shears and much effort)
-1/8" thick, 1/2" wide Rubber Gaskets.
-The cell spat out 2 LPM of, very cool to the touch, HHO from the get-go, with zero conditioning :D
Sorry, not sure about the amperage, since my 20AMP fuse was melted 6-10 minutes after testing (May have been longer since I was in awe at the output).
-20% NaOH in distilled water in my Reservoir/Bubbler. Vinegar in my second bubbler.
After research, I found that I only need 1/4 to 1/2 (in LPM) the engine size. Example: 2L engine needs 1/2 to 1LPM of HHO.
I set it to work at approx 7 amps after that to see if I could hit the target for my 1.3L engine.
I will have to do some more measuring when the liquid is warm to see what I am really getting.
Any questions or input is welcome. I hope I can add to the forum, and learn as well.

hhofox
01-13-2012, 09:29 AM
I was wondering if it would be possible for everyone posting their results to just include the electronic device(s) they used (if any) to get results from their HHO setup? Has this been done in another thread already?
My actual aim is to have a place the can be referenced if say, you need to install an HHO device on another vehicle. Instead of guessing and spelling, you could just run a search for that vehicle, and the setting which worked for another person, as well as their results will come up. That way, you can be off to a running start, and an easier installation.
How about it? Has this already been done? If so, then where?
SORRY PEOPLE! Just looked at the forum's main page listing and found similar info -I will check and see what is there.
(Good thing I saw it before anyone replied!)
Once again, my apologies!

Madsceintist
01-20-2012, 01:57 AM
James here .
2000 Chevy Cavalier 2.2 automatic
1400 mile plus trips...
average before HHO
@ 70 mph, 21.8 mpg

After installing a generator i designed and built
average running HHO
@ 70 mph, 29.5 mpg

After a redesign due to catastrophic failure (of the generator,exploded)
average running HHO
@ 70 mph, 41.1 mpg

Haven't been using for awhile, however I've been working on a new setup that i tried for about a week. In the Cavalier I was able to get 129 miles out of 1 gallon of gas, it was short lived only because i got so excited that i took everything out to relocate my system in the rear away from any heat! And well I drive the car everyday and its my long distance car, so it was put on the back burner. I've been working fairly hard at it this week, so i hope to have it up and running soon! I keep updates and will figure out how to put picks on here as to my old units and parts of my new.

hhofox
01-20-2012, 08:48 AM
Hey Madsceintist,

You have got me interested in seeing your new setup. 129 MPG sounds too good to be true, so please don't leave the issue hanging and update when you can. Thanks!

Madsceintist
01-26-2012, 04:00 AM
I read a post on it and still cant get to that point ? Want to post pics and I'm stuck. Help....

hhofox
01-26-2012, 10:53 AM
Okay. You need to have the picture either on the internet or on saved to your PC.
There is an easy and a much easier way to do this.:D

The much easier way is:
If the file you wanna upload is on the internet, you simply have to
1. find the picture, and
2. while you are viewing it in its full size, right-click on the picture itself.
3. You can then choose to "copy the Image Location", or something similar.
4. After that, you just go to the exact line, in the post which you are typing, where you would like the picture to appear,
5. click the http://www.hhoforums.com/images/editor/insertimage.gif button and hold the CTRL key then the V key on the keyboard (or just right-click and PASTE) the info you copied just now, then hit okay.
The pic will come up on that line when you are finished posting (or when you hit preview).

If it's on your PC, just :
1. Act like you are gonna post a comment.
2. Click the paper-clip http://www.hhoforums.com/images/editor/attach.gif, and choose the "browse" button to the right of the "Upload File from your Computer" section at the top.
3. Go to the location of the picture you took (eg. Desktop, or My Documents, or My pictures, etc).
4. Click on the file, (eg. Bubbler.jpg) and choose "OPEN".
5. IF it's just 1 file, choose upload (beside the browse button.) If you have more files, choose "Browse" again -from step 2. And work back to step no. 5 again.
6. You will see a list of file under the "Current Attachments" section, showing the files you wanna upload. Click the corresponding "Remove" button to get rid of anything you don't wanna upload, or just scroll to the bottom of the window and hit "Close This Window".
7. Finish typing up your post as usual, and submit it for the world to see.

If the File you wanna upload is on the internet, you simply have to find the picture, and while you are viewing it in its full size, right-click on the picture itself. You can then choose to copy the Image Location, or something similar. You can then paste it into the box inside the "Upload File from a URL" section, then hit "Upload." From this point, it's the same as step no. 5.

The attached pic is an example of one I uploaded from my PC -not my own bubbler.

I am sure that this may be over-simplified, but it should get the job done. Please let me know if you have any more problems of this nature.
I have 20+ years of computer use/repair experience and I am still learning! -I love it!

hhofox
01-31-2012, 09:26 AM
I don't know if this has been covered before, but I want to know if this is a normal occurrence.
On the morning of Sunday, Jan 29th, I disconnected my HHO unit from my air intake, and have left it off since then. My goal is to check my base mileage before using HHO, so I filled the gas tank immediately after the disconnection. However, what I have found is that my gas consumption is still low, as if there is still some HHO present. I say this because the best I have gotten from HHO is about 10L per 60+ Miles. With the unit off, I am still getting close to that figure. Also, between myself and my wife, the car's carrying about 400 lbs of weight.
I know that you end up keeping your engine in better shape once you install HHO stuff. Also, the HHO cleans up your engine, so it should perform better too.
What I wanna know is, whether or not I need to run the car longer without HHO to get the proper mileage, or could it be that the car is just performing that well? :confused:
Please let me know what you think.
Oh, the car is a 1991 Corolla, 1296CC Carbed 2E engine -Japanese model, and no computer.

Weapon_R
01-31-2012, 11:00 AM
I don't know if this has been covered before, but I want to know if this is a normal occurrence.
On the morning of Sunday, Jan 29th, I disconnected my HHO unit from my air intake, and have left it off since then. My goal is to check my base mileage before using HHO, so I filled the gas tank immediately after the disconnection. However, what I have found is that my gas consumption is still low, as if there is still some HHO present. I say this because the best I have gotten from HHO is about 10L per 60+ Miles. With the unit off, I am still getting close to that figure. Also, between myself and my wife, the car's carrying about 400 lbs of weight.
I know that you end up keeping your engine in better shape once you install HHO stuff. Also, the HHO cleans up your engine, so it should perform better too.
What I wanna know is, whether or not I need to run the car longer without HHO to get the proper mileage, or could it be that the car is just performing that well? :confused:
Please let me know what you think.
Oh, the car is a 1991 Corolla, 1296CC Carbed 2E engine -Japanese model, and no computer.

Did you make any tweaks to the car after adding hho?
Also when you say disconnected what exactly did you disconnect? Was it just the hho hose or was it hose and power to the unit?

hhofox
01-31-2012, 02:14 PM
Tweaks? Not really. Regular work, yes -overhaul, oil and gas filter changes, timing, new tires, etc. The time just came to do these things over the months. The work was done without the HHO unit on/connected. Plus my old unit (washers dry cell) only put out 1Liter in 5mins. That is, approx 200ML/min.
Right now, the unit's is power switched off (since sunday morning) and disconnected. The hose to the air intake is disconnected, and the barb plugged.
So what do you think?

Weapon_R
01-31-2012, 02:30 PM
Tweaks? Not really. Regular work, yes -overhaul, oil and gas filter changes, timing, new tires, etc. The time just came to do these things over the months. The work was done without the HHO unit on/connected. Plus my old unit (washers dry cell) only put out 1Liter in 5mins. That is, approx 200ML/min.
Right now, the unit's is power switched off (since sunday morning) and disconnected. The hose to the air intake is disconnected, and the barb plugged.
So what do you think?

If all this was done at the time the generator was added it could very well be that the gains are due to the servicing and not the hho. To benefit from hho fuel usage is reduced by tweaking the carb. However since the added hho increases power and combustion efficiency there is no noticeable loss in power.

Here is a test you can do. Start the car and allow it to warm up. Once it has warmed up, with the unit connected to the intake turn on the generator and see if you notice smoother throttle.

Now drive the car with and without the hho and see if you experience more power with the hho added. If so then you will have to have the vehicle tuned to achieve maximum benefit.

mytoyotasucks
01-31-2012, 05:11 PM
If ur cell is only 200ml/min, i dont think thats enough. U need to ramp that up.

hhofox
02-01-2012, 03:46 PM
Yeah, I agree that that's not quite enough, so I built a better cell. At that time, I could only find 2.5" SS washers. I got that output from a huge stack.
My current cell puts out over 2LPM easily. Since it's a 1.3L engine though, I was thinking that I should try for about 650ML per min for starters. What do you guys think?
BTW -The car giving great mileage without the HHO unit in the car. Yep, it's a base mileage testing week for me.

mytoyotasucks
02-01-2012, 04:44 PM
Its hard to say cause its carburated, carbs work diff then FI.

We should start another thread for this, since ur asking questions, which is ok, but should be in another tread.

Start another thread and email me so I know, and weel continue there.

Madsceintist
02-01-2012, 06:19 PM
I had that same car 15 years ago and didn't get more than 40-45 m.p.g. at best ! With what i know now it would be great to have had HHO on that car. As o2 sensors get old and coated in carbon they do not perform as well as new. HHO becomes steam after detonation and cleans as you would expect steam to. I pulled my o2 out after 5000 miles and it was clean of carbon that was there before i started the HHO use! Really cool. If you drove or drive your car a few thousand miles you'll see your gas consumption go up(m.p.g. go down), I'm sure.

hhofox
02-02-2012, 09:49 AM
Thanks for the replies!
mytoyotasucks
I guess I will have to start another thread -when I get some more results. Sunday is my re-fill day, so I will have more info by Monday.

Madsceintist
Are you saying that you had a 1991 Jap-style Corolla hatchback with a 1.3L carbed engine? I ask also, because the mileage souds on point, but there is no O2 sensor on this vehicle, AFAIK. There is no computer on it -but I do believe that the HHO cleaned up my engine.

Weapon_R
02-02-2012, 02:20 PM
Thanks for the replies!
mytoyotasucks
I guess I will have to start another thread -when I get some more results. Sunday is my re-fill day, so I will have more info by Monday.

Madsceintist
Are you saying that you had a 1991 Jap-style Corolla hatchback with a 1.3L carbed engine? I ask also, because the mileage souds on point, but there is no O2 sensor on this vehicle, AFAIK. There is no computer on it -but I do believe that the HHO cleaned up my engine.

This car's fuel system is purely mechanical. So in order to benefit from hho, I am very sure some tuning is required. There may also be mileage gains from the cleaning of the engine. In essence you car is unaware of the hho. By the way hhofox I sent you an email.

Madsceintist
02-02-2012, 11:30 PM
No the toy didn't have an o2. My cavalier does. Sorry bout that. The Cavalier is going to our teen on their 18th birthday in a few months. So I'm fitting a '92 Toyota corolla dx 1.8 that a customer donated for experiments. My old Toyota had so much rust in it the rear that the shock towers gave way. Parted it out long time ago('97), enjoyed the hell out of that car. If i remember correctly i think it had a 1.5 in it though, I'll dig out some pics sometime.
As the o2 sensors in F.I. goes for wear i was speaking generally. I got two subjects caught up together. I'll keep em separate next time.

Left-handed individual
02-03-2012, 06:06 PM
So when it comes to this HHO I'm new to this. I discovered this in kid November of last year and quickly began to work on my own. I understand the basics and have installed a prototype on my car.

Now I have a 96 mustang gt so I need to squeeze as much mpg out of that beast as I can.

My generator is made from regular SS wall plates. I have 8 and are set up.. +-n-n-n-n-n-n+negative. Be advised the spacing between each carries from one to the next. The max is 2 mil and minimum is yet to be determined. I used a lunch box that holds up to 1.2 litters of water with 4 tbsp of lye. 4 is way too much and worked fine the first day only for the lye to be cooked the following morning.

I drove to work and back with the generator on and producing no more than half a littler per minute.. possibly less than thst. It is 26 miles there and back 80% of that is highway. My gas did not move at all during that and the power increase felt like that of a fresh tune-up (which my car desperately needs by the way). Usually I waste half a quarter of gasto work and back but the gauge did not budge abd I had the car idling for at least 20 minutes showing the generator off to some co workers to prove that it does make a flammable substance.

What I want to know is is it really possible to see such an increase in power and mileage with no more than half a litter per minute of HHO on a 4.6 litter sized engine!?! I am currently remaking the frame of the gen cause I found some gas leakage and I'm only going to add 2 tbsp of lye.

By the way... No fancy PWM or anything.. just a heavy duty 30A fuse I salvaged of a power wheel and a bubbler.. took of the flashback arrestor because it restricted what little flow of HHO I had going into the intake.. plus at that rate it wasn't a threat of explosion.

I'm impressed on the results of that short test run. My car wastes a lot of gas and I went to work and back and the gauge seemed to be frozen solid. If anyone can look into this I can show picks of my cell.. doesn't look like much but its a start.

For those new guys reading... Definitely worth your time.

mytoyotasucks
02-03-2012, 06:59 PM
So when it comes to this HHO I'm new to this. I discovered this in kid November of last year and quickly began to work on my own. I understand the basics and have installed a prototype on my car.

Now I have a 96 mustang gt so I need to squeeze as much mpg out of that beast as I can.

My generator is made from regular SS wall plates. I have 8 and are set up.. +-n-n-n-n-n-n+negative. Be advised the spacing between each carries from one to the next. The max is 2 mil and minimum is yet to be determined. I used a lunch box that holds up to 1.2 litters of water with 4 tbsp of lye. 4 is way too much and worked fine the first day only for the lye to be cooked the following morning.

I drove to work and back with the generator on and producing no more than half a littler per minute.. possibly less than thst. It is 26 miles there and back 80% of that is highway. My gas did not move at all during that and the power increase felt like that of a fresh tune-up (which my car desperately needs by the way). Usually I waste half a quarter of gasto work and back but the gauge did not budge abd I had the car idling for at least 20 minutes showing the generator off to some co workers to prove that it does make a flammable substance.

What I want to know is is it really possible to see such an increase in power and mileage with no more than half a litter per minute of HHO on a 4.6 litter sized engine!?! I am currently remaking the frame of the gen cause I found some gas leakage and I'm only going to add 2 tbsp of lye.

By the way... No fancy PWM or anything.. just a heavy duty 30A fuse I salvaged of a power wheel and a bubbler.. took of the flashback arrestor because it restricted what little flow of HHO I had going into the intake.. plus at that rate it wasn't a threat of explosion.

I'm impressed on the results of that short test run. My car wastes a lot of gas and I went to work and back and the gauge seemed to be frozen solid. If anyone can look into this I can show picks of my cell.. doesn't look like much but its a start.

For those new guys reading... Definitely worth your time.

It could be that the HHO cleaned the O2 sensors, and part of the intake.
But useing very little gas - not possible. But if it cleaned the engine that can do alot by itself.

What size motor does it have??

Madsceintist
02-04-2012, 03:19 AM
I use an oxygen tank flashback arrestor, the vacuum from the engine is enough to pull the HHO thru but works like it needs to when there's a pop. I strongly suggest you use something, there, Left-handed !

Left-handed individual
02-04-2012, 09:57 AM
Mytoyotasucks its a 4.6L V8. Now that you mention it that sounds like thats what may of happened. It regularly wouldn't pass smog cause of 2 bad O2 sensors ando a bad catalyst. (car has 4 of each by the way.... Shows how inefficient it truly is) so I had to pay a few extra $ to make it happen. Since then I've taken the generator off to rebuild it and the car does seem a little bit smoother.. the previous 2 owners neglected and mistreated this poor thing... But its in good hands now.

Madscientist I would like to see an example of that flashback arrestor your talking about.. sounds just like what I need. Any link or tips on how to make it would be greatly appreciated.

Madsceintist
02-04-2012, 12:14 PM
Mytoyotasucks its a 4.6L V8. Now that you mention it that sounds like thats what may of happened. It regularly wouldn't pass smog cause of 2 bad O2 sensors ando a bad catalyst. (car has 4 of each by the way.... Shows how inefficient it truly is) so I had to pay a few extra $ to make it happen. Since then I've taken the generator off to rebuild it and the car does seem a little bit smoother.. the previous 2 owners neglected and mistreated this poor thing... But its in good hands now.

Madscientist I would like to see an example of that flashback arrestor your talking about.. sounds just like what I need. Any link or tips on how to make it would be greatly appreciated.

I bought this at a welding supply shop for a portable acetylene/oxygen torch(there are long and short)these are short, the fittings are from ace hardware. Had to take a knife to one so as the flare would fit snug. Works really great!

Left-handed individual
02-04-2012, 01:21 PM
Thanks man. I think ive heard of these before. Instead of having that steel wool are these the ones with the little metal ball inside that completely blocks off the path when forced to go backwards(as in in the event of a flashback)? I heard of this a while back.. but knew absolutely nothing of it and saw a video on how to make one with steel wool so I took the easy way out... didnt really work out for me I just carry it around to show people the flashback with a lighter and convince them this is no hoax. I never doubted this thing... If it wasn't already invented im pretty sure I would of invented it myself because I always thought if you put two pieces of steel under water and connect one to the positive and the other to the negative (electrolysis) somethings gotta give.. theres gotta be a good way to get the oxygen and hydrogen out of water thus creating a new fuel source. water is an impressive substance.

Madsceintist
02-04-2012, 01:28 PM
Repeatedly this arrestor will work flawlessly!
As people we learn something new all the time, there are so many things we DON'T know. I'm up for finding out everything we can, but I think sometimes, one day somebody's going to find out the wrong thing and ................BOOM, were all gone!

mytoyotasucks
02-04-2012, 01:29 PM
What most people dont know is that the factory runs the ebgines a little rich - more than needed so the cats can burn the gasses better. And the engines can run alot better for fuel mileage and power. And now with ethonol in the fuel the mileage gets even worse.

To bring the most out of HHO, youll need a few toys.
1 - Dual EFIE to mod the O2 sensors
2 - Map sensor enhancer

and more HHO, and you can read the exaust temp through the OBDII port or put in a pyro gauge.

Left-handed individual
02-04-2012, 04:41 PM
I agree Madscientist. People swear humans are the smartest beings around what with all our impressive technology but if you think about it.... How Many countlees great discoveries haven't been made in accident. wether it be engineering, astronomy, medical science what have you. We've only been this smart for no more than 100 years.. and this HHO stuff needs considerably more attention than what its getting.

Mytoyotasucks, I keep hearing about these add-ons to the boosters but I can find any. Where can you find these things.. and are they vehicle specific? I want to be able to get a hold on these things as soon as I figure out what milagro increase i get out of ny boosters. i plan to run at least 3 generators within 3 months at an estimated 2-3 lpm.

Left-handed individual
02-04-2012, 04:44 PM
-sorry, meant to say mileage no milagro.. please excuse my grammar I hate typing on this NOT-so-smart phone. Lol

mytoyotasucks
02-04-2012, 06:25 PM
U can find these on ebay, and other web sites, or u can build ur own - not to hard.

look here for starters - http://www.hhoforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=14

Left-handed individual
02-07-2012, 08:34 AM
Thanks man. Aside from what I was looking for there's a lot of other good information in general.

BUELLX1
04-16-2012, 08:19 PM
02 jeep liberty 3.7 v6 4x4
hybrid wet cell
cts mod....10 deg added
map mod.....4.85v (ref voltage mod)
iat mod.....180-190 deg (adjustable for fine tuning)
narrow quad efie @200mv up 200mv down (still tweaking these so numbers not final)
30a pwm
started at 18mpg baseline. I travel 80mls round trip to work. Interstate driveing...lot of hills.
Now at 24.5mpg as of today and still have some adjusting to do.
Yay me!

Iceguy4
04-28-2012, 07:53 PM
:) just got done installing CCPWM,,,thats integrated with myEFIE so when I Idle it pulls low amps but when I give it gas it ups the amps out the driver. Its running about 9 amps at idle and 35 at full throttle. I have an excellent base line ...18 mpg. I havent driven it only 10 or so miles but its looking crazy....good. I gotta tweek it and fill the tank to get real numbers but first indicators look GREAT. In about a week or so I will post an update..:D

aceras624
04-29-2012, 01:49 PM
:) just got done installing CCPWM,,,thats integrated with myEFIE so when I Idle it pulls low amps but when I give it gas it ups the amps out the driver. Its running about 9 amps at idle and 35 at full throttle. I have an excellent base line ...18 mpg. I havent driven it only 10 or so miles but its looking crazy....good. I gotta tweek it and fill the tank to get real numbers but first indicators look GREAT. In about a week or so I will post an update..:D

well?!?!?
results please?!?!? :)

Iceguy4
05-07-2012, 08:22 PM
I'm having engine light problems P0171 code... lean. I can run my off sets -100mv MAF.... +100mv o2 and I dont kick a light. I'm starting to see improvement...2 or 3 mpg with no cel ....more whith the light on. what is everyone doing come inspection time? In my state they hook it up and any codes fail it:(

Stevo
05-07-2012, 11:50 PM
2.0 L Turbo flat 4

1 LPM output
13-14V input @9-12 Amps

MPG

City/Hwy before: 21
City/Hwy after: 24

No ECU mods for HHO injection; just a reset on install.

Here is a video of my crazy system (still a beta prototype):

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/-zLyUt4jaXU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

myoldyourgold
05-08-2012, 10:42 AM
Stevo, very neat job!! Add some mags close to the injection point or a pulsing coil wound on the last foot from the injection point. Again clean neat great install and setup. That is what I call KOOOL! My hat is off to you Sir.

Madsceintist
05-08-2012, 12:48 PM
Nice job .........................

Iceguy4
05-09-2012, 07:35 PM
well?!?!?
results please?!?!? :) Still tinkering ..runs better with check engine light on...it seems to "pucker up" after I reset it. gas pump shows good and expect real good numbers to match my Autel MaxiTrip readings. today it was showing 36-39 mpg where it use to show 18-19 just days ago. still playing but I'm impressed.

aceras624
05-10-2012, 09:46 PM
Still tinkering ..runs better with check engine light on...it seems to "pucker up" after I reset it. gas pump shows good and expect real good numbers to match my Autel MaxiTrip readings. today it was showing 36-39 mpg where it use to show 18-19 just days ago. still playing but I'm impressed.

ive heard of computers MPG readings being rediculously high compared to what the vehicle is ACTUALLY getting. Have you double checked these readings with math?

Iceguy4
05-20-2012, 08:21 AM
Stevo, very neat job!! Add some mags close to the injection point or a pulsing coil wound on the last foot from the injection point. Again clean neat great install and setup. That is what I call KOOOL! My hat is off
to you Sir.

"Add some mags close to the injection point or a pulsing coil wound on the last foot from the injection point" what is the purpose of "mags"?:confused:

Madsceintist
05-20-2012, 02:27 PM
"Add some mags close to the injection point or a pulsing coil wound on the last foot from the injection point" what is the purpose of "mags"?:confused:


Magnets.............
With the correct direction, they will keep the HHO higher in quality as you have para or ortho. Either will burn well, however ortho burns much more stronger than para. So the goal is to keep ortho as strong as possible up to the point of combustion. More power for the same quantity with better quality.

Basically your disassociating the particles and keeping them in a more unstable state so that they have more of a bang when their detonated.

aceras624
05-20-2012, 03:27 PM
Magnets.............
With the correct direction, they will keep the HHO higher in quality as you have para or ortho. Either will burn well, however ortho burns much more stronger than para. So the goal is to keep ortho as strong as possible up to the point of combustion. More power for the same quantity with better quality.

Basically your disassociating the particles and keeping them in a more unstable state so that they have more of a bang when their detonated.

how do magnets do this? both para and ortho would still be going into the combustion chamber. plus theres another couple feet AFTER the injection point. This seems like a hoax to me :/ I want it to be right. i just dont see HOW it is right?

Madsceintist
05-21-2012, 09:09 AM
how do magnets do this? both para and ortho would still be going into the combustion chamber. plus theres another couple feet AFTER the injection point. This seems like a hoax to me :/ I want it to be right. i just dont see HOW it is right?


Seriously.....??

1; There's only a few inches left if your injecting the correct location.
2; If your making ortho and keeping it highly agitated(magnets or an electrical feild(coils), then you have a much better HHO. If your making ortho and not helping it along its way you will burn para.

The magnets create the field that PULLS on the hydrogen and oxygen particles to keep then at a high state of agitation being as there magnetic in nature.
The cracking of water is the start. But you have many factors in doing this and the quality of the product that comes from it! You need to study this in detail to understand it. Not just this forum but search scientifically on the electrolysis of water. Expect a lot of reading.

iger13
05-21-2012, 01:38 PM
Magnets.............
With the correct direction.

Mad, what direction should the magnets be? What kind of magnets can be used?

Madsceintist
05-21-2012, 11:10 PM
Mad, what direction should the magnets be? What kind of magnets can be used?


Well now that's an open question.:eek:
I have a massive amount of speaker magnets that came from 5 1/4 inch ford door speakers. Just put each one on the next so they stick to one another, I have 6 in one stack. The stack has a hole in it which the tubes run thru. Right now i'm trying positive(or North) in, negative(or South) out. You can also go with a wound coil close to or at the injection point. RadioShack has a descent coil kit you wind yourself, just don't wind it on metal, use plastic or better 'vinyl', such as the factory fuel line on GM cars.

I suppose you could use some very small motor magnets, but you have to use them so the polarity is working to your advantage!

Iceguy4
05-25-2012, 10:38 PM
ive heard of computers MPG readings being rediculously high compared to what the vehicle is ACTUALLY getting. Have you double checked these readings with math?

Numbers match city 18 before.....drum roll.....:):o:o:D 22.2 after.... thats not bad...I'm a lil nervous about exhaust temp and havent checked it as of yet.

whear
05-28-2012, 01:18 AM
Are you running lean ?

If not, engine should run slightly cooler with Hydrogen.

Autowrench
06-07-2012, 11:14 PM
Hello, All Fellow HHO users! I have been running a system for over two years now, summer and winter. I am here to tell you, these things work!
Like many of you I began with a single jar reactor, and got some progress, but in those days we were newbees.
After much trial and error, and variuos designs. here is what we are running today.
Vehicle: 1990 G-20 3/4 Ton Van, 4300 pounds, 350 V8.
We are using two jars, Ball Widemouth. The jar caps are Plastic Storage Lids for Wide Mouth Jars:
http://www.hayneedle.com/product/ballplasticstoragelidsforwidemouthjars.cfm
I am also running a MAP Sensor Enhancer:
http://burnhydrox.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=10&products_id=65
I didn't get along with the acrylic tower and wire. I went to a three stainless bolts, negative/positive/negative arrangments instead. I tried wiring the bolts for 2 positive one negative, but the negative electrode got hot fast. Dividing the electrons seems to help keep the electrodes cooler. I switch my reactors from the dash, with two 50 Amp Toggle switches. These go to two 30 Amp Circuit Breakers, this regulates the reactor draw at 30 Amps. We tried it at a 50 Amp draw, but the jars ran too hot.

The heardest thing for me was a proper bubbler/filter for my system. I spent three times longer on this project that the reactors setup itself. We tried a bubbler, made from a Ball jar, inlet and outlet on top, tube running down under the water. This worked somewhat. We had to be very careful of the level of water, of a suction into the engine would ensure. Then I hit on a filter chamber, this would filter out the inpurities, and the smells. I made it from this:
Mainstays Storage Canister
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Mainstays-Storage-Canister-Clear-Medium/17165301
At first I fed the gas into the bottom, and took it from the top. This tended to drain the reactors in short time. So, we switched feeding the HHO at the top, which is afixed level to the reactors, and drawing the HHO from the bottom. I have half an old cotton bedsheet stuffed tighly in the cannister, and when the engine is running, you cannot pull the top open. My Vacuum Guage reads 20 Hg at idle in netural, 17 Hg in gear with brake held. We are getting 35 plus mpg on the open highway, 28-30 around the countryside, or in town. The engine, a stock 350/200 hp truck engine runs like a new one, now that it is free of carbon. We run an MSD 50,000 Volt ignition system, and oinize the fuel line.

I will post pictures later. I had joined this forum before, but forgot where it was at.

hhofox
07-06-2012, 12:37 PM
Hi again everyone. I just wanted to let you know that I have been getting better results (over 30MPG) after leaning out my carb. It turns out that I only managed to lean out my idle speed, but boy did it do wonders! I think I could lean it out even more, a 1/4 turn maybe, but that's for another time.

Anyway, I have been doing a bit of reading and would like to run some stuff by you, but thought that it may need its own thread. So, please head over to the link below when you get the chance.

http://www.hhoforums.com/showthread....1463#post51463

Thanks, in advance.

greenfuelbooster
08-25-2012, 11:26 AM
I have HHO boosting my Civic for almost 100K miles.

Video as installed and running:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiLaNwNHrGk

Video explaining setup:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbCfOCzAM4Y

Just sharing

Madsceintist
08-28-2012, 04:03 PM
I will have my balls handed to me for this one, I'm sure.............................
Before they get cut,:eek:, RUSTY,:eek:, I am making a full documentary of the Toyota in nice video to string out in a thread all at once as to have it in one short, quick, clean, neat, easy to get to and read place !!!!!! This is to eliminate a long thread or to many questions that make a thread as long as some of these do tend to get. NO it wont be tomorrow or next week, but it will come along in good time, so be patient and just look forward to it, please.

greenfuelbooster;
But as I can see your set-up is fairly newly installed. Clean fasteners and components, nothing that would look like it's been ran 100,000 miles to me !! The plastic zip ties on the 'cell' by the exhaust would have melted off as well as the rubber around the cell is fresh looking. To close to the exhaust to look that clean and that new, any of it. Looks like it was put in very recently.

I'm not hating on you, but when it comes to the pursuit of HHO and the truth, It has to be TRUE....................NOTHING but the TRUTH !!!

It is still a good start and a nice effort, but keep it real and ask questions when you need to know how or why something is one way or the other!

nikolatesla
11-05-2012, 01:35 PM
Hi all,

First I want to thank everyone for the kind help here .
I have installed my hho system and run it for 3 tanks of fuel (petrol)
I have found no difference but I will explain the setup just in case i missed something.

The vehicle system has no oxygen sensor in the exhaust at all and they aparrently run in open loop mode , so it sould be ideal. it is 0bd2 2001 model 4wd

I am generating 2 .2 lpm plus and I have tried different points of input ..pre air cleaner and manifold direct.

I do my sums on the range of my main tank 95 litres normally 500-530 depending on the wind (open road conditions)
The vehicle has a roof rack and would never be considered economical on fuel.

If any body has any thing that is worth trying before I say that it doesnt work on this one ?
Thanks in advance
Lindsay

Madsceintist
11-05-2012, 01:59 PM
Hi all,

First I want to thank everyone for the kind help here .
I have installed my hho system and run it for 3 tanks of fuel (petrol)
I have found no difference but I will explain the setup just in case i missed something.

The vehicle system has no oxygen sensor in the exhaust at all and they aparrently run in open loop mode , so it sould be ideal. it is 0bd2 2001 model 4wd

I am generating 2 .2 lpm plus and I have tried different points of input ..pre air cleaner and manifold direct.

I do my sums on the range of my main tank 95 litres normally 500-530 depending on the wind (open road conditions)
The vehicle has a roof rack and would never be considered economical on fuel.

If any body has any thing that is worth trying before I say that it doesnt work on this one ?
Thanks in advance
Lindsay


What makes this a difficult application is that you have to adjust the timing thru the computer. That would make a noticeable difference. Have you tried to inject the HHO just outside of the throttle body?

nikolatesla
11-05-2012, 04:10 PM
Thanks for that,

I was under the distinct impression that I would see an increase because of the better burn .
Timing will be difficult to tamper with but I will investigate the ways to to do it .

myoldyourgold
11-08-2012, 03:12 PM
How many amps are you running to make 2.2 lpm? What is your average driving, by that I mean what is the average rpm your engine is running at. The timing issue must be addressed but if it is not possible try to increase or decrease the exhaust gas going back though the EGR to find the sweet spot. Remember it is a balance of HHO to fuel to air. If you get it right at the point where you run the most you will see a gain. Keep us informed there could be more help available.

nikolatesla
11-11-2012, 04:04 PM
Thanks,
I'm running 25-35 amps depending on the engine rpm ..at idle the volts are lower .

I aproximate my reading by blowing up balloons with a stopwatch and doing a volume calculation

I have a 25 amp fuse which will pop ocasionally and dies from stress failure
30 amps is ok so thats how I calculate my current. As you may know , all meters introduce a little resistance.

My system is open loop (nothing from exhaust to anywhere else) so Im not sure what you mean by egr control adjustment.

The only place I can see for any kind of sensor is in the intake path .
I have adjusted my iat resistance and I do notice a slight increase in egt by leaning the mixture which does seem to make a 5% difference but it is hard to measure that level.

These vehicles are only relased in australia and south africa i think.
1fz-fe straigh six 4.5 litres very popular .

the toyota lx450 is almost the same as this one in the us and other places

they are obd1 or something not readable except for flash codes.
I have searched quite a bit and I have not found a successful hho boost on one yet .

could it be that the have a magic fuel air mix that is already optimum??
I dont see how .
Any help appreciated ,thanks

Nadasive
02-11-2013, 01:13 AM
Hi guys,

I'm not sure how much LPM my dry cell produces BUT my 2000 Mercedes e320 v6 3.2l with 170,000 miles used to run at 14 miles per gallon, now with this dry cell i am doing about 19-20 miles per gallon running at 15 amps.

However, I built a smacksbooster out of ABS pipe and used 316L stainless steel plates and it produced a whopping amount of 5 lpm at about 20 amps. I loved it except for the fact that it got hot and spewed water into my engine (even with a bubbler). I am waiting on my finances to get better so i can invest in some filters that can help filter out the steam and water that gets produced.
Anyone know of a device that can efficiently remove water from the line before it goes into the intake?

This is my dry cell, i dont have pics of my wet cell yet.
http://i48.tinypic.com/63xl.jpg
http://i46.tinypic.com/34rvtp4.jpg

power99
03-31-2013, 12:56 AM
I just bought and installed a filter from this seller on eBay:

http://hydrolinium.com/Parts.html

I was having problems with water getting into the air intake even with the secondary bubbler and just installed this item today. It was $30 and has a drain that will dump water continuously or you can keep it closed (not recommended). I seems to work really well and can be cleaned.

It's basically stainless steel thicker than steel wool but sort of the same concept that catches the water vapor and drains it out for you.

tomfreed
02-15-2014, 11:46 AM
What kind of cell do you have that gets 1.5 LPM for it? Did you build it yourself?

I have the 03 same truck long bed heavy duty that gets only 16 mpg average. I am building the 13 plates cells and have problem getting about 2 LPM output. I thought you need about 2 LPM for the 5.9 Cumm motor according to .25-.5 LPM per liter as suggested every where?

tomfreed
02-15-2014, 11:48 AM
What kind of cell do you have that gets 1.5 LPM for it? Did you build it yourself?

I have the 03 same truck long bed heavy duty that gets only 16 mpg average. I am building the 13 plates cells and have problem getting about 2 LPM output. I thought you need about 2 LPM for the 5.9 Cumm motor according to .25-.5 LPM per liter as suggested every where?
Edit / Delete

delvis11
03-23-2014, 03:06 PM
What kind of cell do you have that gets 1.5 LPM for it? Did you build it yourself?

I have the 03 same truck long bed heavy duty that gets only 16 mpg average. I am building the 13 plates cells and have problem getting about 2 LPM output. I thought you need about 2 LPM for the 5.9 Cumm motor according to .25-.5 LPM per liter as suggested every where?
Edit / Delete



Depending on the size of your plates your going to need more. 13 probably wont get the output you need without heating the water a lot. I would go with something that has about 30 plates. That cells would easily produce the 2 lpm you need. green fuel h2o has some great cells.

librizz
05-19-2015, 04:51 PM
a little story for you! http://freenergyhho.weebly.com/