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View Full Version : A few problems with my hho



tullyamo
11-09-2008, 06:40 PM
I am new here and have read these forums for the past several weeks in anticipation of finally getting to post. I have done a smack design and see myself having a few problems.

the setup is a 14 plate system.

+nnn nn nn--nn nn nnn+

the positive lead comes down and attaches to the top of the outside plate and there is a piece at the bottom that connect the outside of one side to the other. All parts are insulated until they contact the plates to avoid leak.

The problem is only one side of the electrode component is working. The side the positive lead comes in on is working and the side that the bridge goes to is not working or produces very very minimal bubbles if anything.

One of the other issues that I am having is the electronics of a 1986 Chevy Silverado 10 series. The questions are: will I need 02 extenders, will I need map/maf/efie, and where should I connect the output line of hho in order to pipe it into the engine?

--tullyamo--

oicu812
11-10-2008, 08:59 AM
I'ld say you have too many neutral plates a +nnnnn-nnnnn+ will work much better

Super Fuel FX
11-10-2008, 09:55 AM
I'd say that you should use a MAP Enhancer in order to get the best benefits of HHO.

tullyamo
11-10-2008, 10:37 PM
Thought I would post a picture to better explain what is going on in the cell.
http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q45/flowerdkinc/TullyamoHHO-1.jpg

Still not sure why it is only producing on one side rather then both. Is this because of the odd number of plates on the end? Could someone tell me the voltage that this is drawing with the odd number of plates?

*oic - the configuration you have, are there just nylon spaces in between all the plates and nuts on the ends and middle?

HALS-GUNSMITHING
11-10-2008, 10:55 PM
Maybee a bad connection across the bottom + jumper? Try tightening the lead and insulating it from leakage.

tullyamo
11-10-2008, 11:11 PM
I have dip insulated the entire bottom and all the lead from the nut up to the bolt to the top of the canister.

oicu812
11-10-2008, 11:31 PM
use a volt meter across each set of plates. you want at least 1.5 volts across each plate. make sure the connections are good also. I use a ss pop rivit to ss strap for my connections. I also use small ceramic magnets as spacers. they're about 3mm thick. available from radio shack. the magnets create a field which seams to increase production. they also attract eachother which holds the cell together suprisingly tight

tullyamo
11-10-2008, 11:57 PM
One quick question on testing the volts per each set.

Do I hold one probe on the negative lead then just positive probe each plate?

oicu812
11-11-2008, 03:44 PM
exactly. from negative to the next neutral plate you should have at least 1.5 volts. from negative to the second neutral plate you would read 3 volts and so on

Laserist
01-01-2009, 11:45 PM
Your cell is only producing on one side because the current is taking the path of least resistance...from the positive lead on the right to the negative in the center (in your diagram.) You can fix it by adding another positive lead to the left. I also suggest taking out some neutrals, maybe 2-4 from both sides, whatever is the most efficient.:)

Dr. Jerryrigger
02-05-2009, 11:14 PM
I'm no expert, but would think you would be better off with your + as one plate in the center and two -'s at the ends. Because this way you will have more -'s than +'s and you produce 2X the H as the O and electrons don't like to pass threw gasses. but if the side plates are only exposed to the solution on one side there is no diffrence
As far as the tank not working symmetrically, the first thing to check out is how symmetrical the construction is.

Q-Hack!
02-05-2009, 11:58 PM
I'm no expert, but would think you would be better off with your + as one plate in the center and two -'s at the ends. Because this way you will have more -'s than +'s and you produce 2X the H as the O and electrons don't like to pass threw gasses. but if the side plates are only exposed to the solution on one side there is no diffrence
As far as the tank not working symmetrically, the first thing to check out is how symmetrical the construction is.

This bugs me every time I see it.

The amount of Hydrogen is determined by how many molecules of H2O are broken apart, not by how many negative plates there are. Each time you break a water molecule, you will always have one oxygen and two hydrogen. Yes, they are each attracted to positive and negative plates respectively, but you still have the same percentage of each.

Dr. Jerryrigger
02-06-2009, 02:23 PM
This bugs me every time I see it.

The amount of Hydrogen is determined by how many molecules of H2O are broken apart, not by how many negative plates there are. Each time you break a water molecule, you will always have one oxygen and two hydrogen. Yes, they are each attracted to positive and negative plates respectively, but you still have the same percentage of each.

well yes, but the # of H2O molecules broken apart is reflective of how much juice you can put it to it. H gas coating an electrode reduces the surface connected to H2O, as dose O gas, but if you have 2X the H the - plate will be limiting the reaction.
A simple example: a three plate setup -+- in an open tank (no "dry cell" fancy stuff) you can put a lot more threw this than if one of the -'s is disconnected.

Q-Hack!
02-06-2009, 02:52 PM
well yes, but the # of H2O molecules broken apart is reflective of how much juice you can put it to it. H gas coating an electrode reduces the surface connected to H2O, as dose O gas, but if you have 2X the H the - plate will be limiting the reaction.

Again, you are not quite correct. The atomic radius of Hydrogen is 1. The atomic radius of Oxygen is 16. Oxygen is considerably larger than Hydrogen. As a result it takes approximately eight times the hydrogen to cover a given surface area than does Oxygen. If this line of thinking were true, it would require more positive plates than negative. In reality, surface area of the plate is returned once a bubble is formed large enough to release surface tension. Again not a factor of the number of plates.


A simple example: a three plate setup -+- in an open tank (no "dry cell" fancy stuff) you can put a lot more threw this than if one of the -'s is disconnected.

Assuming a 2 volt plate gap... A +-+ configuration and a -+- configuration have exactly the same efficiency. This has been proven over and over again by many people. If you have seen differently, then I would suspect your testing methods have errors.

If you are comparing a -+ to a -+- then you are comparing apples and oranges. Of course, you will have more HHO produced by the latter as you have one more plate gap.

higherpoweredh2o
02-06-2009, 04:38 PM
An 86 chevrolet will be a feedback carburetor (quadrajet). It is possible that its a late 86 and is tbi (throttle body injection).

The carburetor will have a blue connector on the pass side of the carburetor near the front. This system is hard to work with. It has to be dissembled to change air fuel ratios. o2 extenders and efies will do virtually nill. It doesnt use a map either. It does a poor job emulsifying the fuel also.

If you have the feed back carb I would suggest an earlier q-jet that is adjustable from the outside. There is about 8 years of carbs that you can adjust primary metering rods externally. This carb will also have much better power and economy without hho. the emulsion process of the early q-jet is second to none in the carburetor field

I will wait for you response to go into more details but I fear you have the feedback carb.

Good luck

BurnHydrox.com
02-07-2009, 04:41 PM
The problem is only one side of the electrode component is working. The side the positive lead comes in on is working and the side that the bridge goes to is not working or produces very very minimal bubbles if anything.

One of the other issues that I am having is the electronics of a 1986 Chevy Silverado 10 series. The questions are: will I need 02 extenders, will I need map/maf/efie, and where should I connect the output line of hho in order to pipe it into the engine?

--tullyamo--

Check your connections! What you have is a Smack's booster. They work reliably and produce gas evenly across both sides of the cell. If only one side is working check the straps, I'll bet you have a loose connection.

Your Silverado may work just fine with O2 sensor extenders. They are a good, inexpensive way to start tweaking ECMs. If you see no mileage gains with the extenders then step up to an EFIE.

Since your Silverado is probably carburated, the best place to connect your HHO supply line is the air cleaner. Just drill a hole in the housing, add a screw in type fitting with a barbed end and connect your supply line when everything is secure.

Hope this helps, good luck with your project.