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airdude
06-30-2008, 12:19 PM
I saw there is one company insisting on using water white vinegar only, but I also wonder about using a water wetting agent like this http://www.redlineoil.com/products_coolant.asp or that stuff used in dishwashers to prevent spotting. Helps water drape and move off glass without spotting. Any thoughts?

Phantom240
06-30-2008, 01:30 PM
I've heard of people using vinegar... but I was told its not a good idea.

volomike
06-30-2008, 01:53 PM
In our very first experiment on Saturday, before we switched to baking soda, George (geonjim) and I here used a dillution of 50% filtered water, 50% vinegar with 1.5 cups in total of this solution. Our bubble rate was very slow, like one bubble almost every second.

For me, potash is going to be our next experiment, and sounds like it has many beneficial factors versus the other favorite around here, lye (which can cause skin burns).

jimbo40
07-22-2008, 08:12 AM
I use pure White distilled viniger in my Magdrive generator.
It's 5% acidic and is deluted with distilled water, right from the bottle.
As the solution is depleted I just add distilled water.
It makes a lot of hydrogen, and it is very safe.
I will be switching to potash (KOH) soon to check my output.

dennis13030
07-22-2008, 10:07 AM
I saw there is one company insisting on using water white vinegar only, but I also wonder about using a water wetting agent like this http://www.redlineoil.com/products_coolant.asp or that stuff used in dishwashers to prevent spotting. Helps water drape and move off glass without spotting. Any thoughts?

A water wetting agent? Like something that lowers the surface tension of water?

Potassium Hydroxide(KOH) also known as caustic potash is used as a SURFACTANT in many detergents. SURFACTANTS lower the surface tension of water! After doing a good deal of research over 3 months, I am certain that KOH is the best chemical to use in electrolyzers. You only need to add it to the water once. The electrolysis does not deplete the KOH. So when you refill the water in your tank, all you need to do is ensure that your new water is mixed well with the old electrolyte.

Q-Hack!
07-29-2008, 01:55 AM
Something to keep in mind... Vinegar has a much lower boiling point than water. I played around with it when I first started. It produces a poor volume of gas and heats up real quick.

computerclinic
07-29-2008, 09:51 AM
Distilled vinegar is good for the first time you use the plates, but not for the long term because of its boiling point. It will help to remove all the oils and dirt from the plates, especially if you have sanded plates. Think of it as hydrogen peroxide for a wound, it will not only bubble and bring the grime out of the small places, but it will also help to chemicaly loosen it up, too. Im not saying to use hydrogen peroxide though-just that vinegar as an electrolyte solution will assist in cleaning the plates, just as hydrogen peroxide will help in cleaning out a wound.

HHOhoper
07-29-2008, 11:02 AM
A water wetting agent? Like something that lowers the surface tension of water?

Potassium Hydroxide(KOH) also known as caustic potash is used as a SURFACTANT in many detergents. SURFACTANTS lower the surface tension of water! After doing a good deal of research over 3 months, I am certain that KOH is the best chemical to use in electrolyzers. You only need to add it to the water once. The electrolysis does not deplete the KOH. So when you refill the water in your tank, all you need to do is ensure that your new water is mixed well with the old electrolyte.

How would you compare the concentration needed for KOH vs. baking soda?

dennis13030
07-29-2008, 12:35 PM
How would you compare the concentration needed for KOH vs. baking soda?

Electrolyte concentrations are beyond me right now. I would hope that the chemical to water percentage is very small(1% to 5%) no matter what chemicals are used.

clarence1984
07-29-2008, 05:19 PM
does anyone actually have any education with chemicals or electronics in this forum. I graduated from UAA with multiple certs in electronics engineering and chemical engineering I can tell you guys your way off from what is needed for this cell.
If my patents were finished for my water car I'd display all the truth here but i can give some pointers here. Think about distilled water and regular tap water. Why does tap water work better?
There is your solution

please don't pollute our wonderful earth with cadmium and potassium, sodium hydroxide it's not worth your troubles and no major company or small company for that fact would ever be allowed to sell a cell that used these harsh chemicals that are not simple biodegradable chemicals.

If you must use a chemical use sodium (good old salt) It's much safer than the others.

Also on another note why isn't your cell producing well without the acid/electrolyte? It's because it's poorly designed. Rework your cells first then when it seems impossible to get more hho then use salt to improve.

My cells simply don't use chemicals just plain tap water and right now i get 12mmw. It all comes down to so many factors. Use a cheap laptop or desktop to facilitate your studies you can get a scope and or spectrum analyzer along with a vom for your comp for about a hundred bucks on ebay.

HHOhoper
07-29-2008, 05:41 PM
does anyone actually have any education with chemicals or electronics in this forum.

Probably not; hence why the title of this forum is "Trying to facilitate the production of HHO for the common folk." Second, if we knew everything there is to know about electronics and chemistry, we wouldn't be here in the first place trying to learn about it!

If there was an easier, safer, more productive alternative, we would ALL be scrambling to have it. So to imply that we are a bunch of morons who are purposely trying to pollute the planet is pretty ignorant, even for an uneducated person.

While your education, experience, and "pointers" are appreciated, your condescending demeaner isn't.

Now, on to what we're here for:

Has anyone else been able to test what clarence1984 is claiming. If he is accurate, then I'm sure that most if not all of us will follow suit. I've heard that the use of salt (sodium) in electrolysis produces chlorine gas (harmful,/toxic). Is that not accurate? Please educate me if it is not.

computerclinic
07-29-2008, 06:38 PM
Chlorine gas is not only toxic, it is also corrosive. As for the tap water, I would take distilled over tap water any day, its much easier to ensure the quality of all aspects ranging from the electrolyte solution to kepping the solution from turning a rusty brown due to all the other elements and chemicals contained in tap water.

Environmental concerns-well I would have to believe that if folks are experimenting responsably, there are far more benifits than there are hazards. IMHO.

cjdave
07-31-2008, 09:22 PM
Potassium Hydroxide is used IN SOAP, and fertilizer.

Enough of your Save the earth crap.

It is Dont use Nukes and not in my back yard logic that has helped get us where we are now with energy problems.

computerclinic
08-01-2008, 09:16 AM
Lobbyists and corruption has gotten us where we are in the energy crisis. As for environmental responsability, we are all working with an electrolyte solution in concentrations that are very mild compared to say a battery, but I still wouldent water my garden with it and feed the veggies to my kids.

Potasium Hydroxide is a corrosive agent that can and will burn your skin. When it is used in soaps and fertilizers, it is in a very diluted form.

Im not a tree hugging save the earth lobbyist, but I do like to think about safety and responsability.

JonDoh
08-01-2008, 07:40 PM
Potassium Hydroxide(KOH)

After doing a good deal of research over 3 months, I am certain that KOH is the best chemical to use in electrolyzers. You only need to add it to the water once. The electrolysis does not deplete the KOH. So when you refill the water in your tank, all you need to do is ensure that your new water is mixed well with the old electrolyte.

How much KOH to H2O?

dennis13030
08-02-2008, 02:48 AM
does anyone actually have any education with chemicals or electronics in this forum.

I have a BS in electronics engineering. What can I do for you?

dennis13030
08-02-2008, 02:50 AM
How much KOH to H2O?

I don't know. But I would start with about 1 tablespoon KOH per Gallon of water.

dhho
08-02-2008, 04:18 AM
The mixture for any chemical will vary with each type of electrolizer and its a bit like asking how long is a piece of string. A wirewound type would use a lot less than a true series cell.Sorry but the answer is not super simple.Just try and try again.
Regards,
Mos

LinChiek
08-02-2008, 08:28 AM
I don't know. But I would start with about 1 tablespoon KOH per Gallon of water.
hi!

can give the measurement in gram (KOH) and liter (H2O) pls..... i'm lost here due to various size of tablespoon......... :( :o :confused:

JonDoh
08-04-2008, 07:27 AM
These guys seem to believe in vinegar:

http://www.fuelfromh2o.com/support.html

I'm gonna try it.... Smell ya l8r :eek:

Bossman
08-16-2008, 09:26 AM
Greetings all. Been reading for a while now & was wondering. I have a portable A/C unit that captures water in a holding tank,it has to be emptied every day. What type water would this be ?? Distilled ? It also has a setting to act like a dehumidifier . Just wondering if this would be good water to use.

Painless
08-16-2008, 09:33 AM
I'm not an expert on A/C, but I'm guessing that this is condensation from the surrounding air that has built up on the outside of the compressor. There's no guarantee as to what will be in this water.

airdude
08-25-2008, 09:10 PM
Greetings all. Been reading for a while now & was wondering. I have a portable A/C unit that captures water in a holding tank,it has to be emptied every day. What type water would this be ?? Distilled ? It also has a setting to act like a dehumidifier . Just wondering if this would be good water to use.


It's distilled. Just not under very controlled circumstances...

professorx
08-29-2008, 12:39 PM
Hi all,
just throwing in my experience so far. Built an electrolyzer and have been using a mixture of distilled water and white vinegar. 1 gallon of distilled water to 1 cup of white vinegar.

Production seems fare, getting an average of 1 liter hho per minute. There is a heat problem I would like to fix. How I got to this mix was distilled water, alone, seemed to draw more amps and turn the cell brown. The vinegar added keeps it fairly clean and require less energy in.

Ideally I would like to be able to use the water from a garden hose and good vibes and get 90 liters per minute, with no heat build up, but I'm still a ways a way from that.

I'm open minded to both electrolyzer design and solution mixture, but gonna stay the hell away from salt usage of any kind.