Bubbler water getting into my electrolyzer

[liberybell]

I installed my electrolyzer outside of the engine compartment to reduce heat. And my bubbler is around 3feet above the electrolizer. After testing for a hour or so the electrolizer stays cool to the touch (under 120F I will say, did not measure temp) but after shutting off the system the water from the bubbler start to come down into the electrolyzer.

Has anybody had this problem?
Would a one way valve solve the problem? (This is what I am planning to try today.)

[volomike]

One-way valves scare me because they create friction on each side of them, and friction can lead to ignition. Also, if you're also considering a one-way valve as a fire arrestor, from what I've heard is that this will fail because HHO implodes so violently and fast that the valve cannot either sustain that pressure or close fast enough.

The other odd thing about what you state is that I've never seen the bubbler water go back into the electrolyzer unit. Usually it's the reverse, where the vacuum of the engine sucks the electrolyzer water into the bubbler. Got a pic of your design that you can attach?

[Stratous]

What your experiancing is the siphon effect. The bubbler is higher than the generator, one a dribble gets started it wont stop until the bubblers internal tube is no longer submerged. you can get a one way valve or put the bubbler below the level of the generator.

[liberybell]

Thanks for your input.
I am going to try the one way valve tonight. I think is the way to go, because I can't move the bubbler at lower point than the generator (the generator is at the lowest point it can be.)

[timetowinarace]

What your experiancing is the siphon effect. The bubbler is higher than the generator, one a dribble gets started it wont stop until the bubblers internal tube is no longer submerged. you can get a one way valve or put the bubbler below the level of the generator.

I'm curious to know if your using a bubbler on your diesel. I started out with one on mine but removed it. I decided much more damage would be done considering the large volume of air(and HHO) contained in the intake, intercooler, turbo and related hoses compared to the relatively small amount in the generator. Any thoughts?

[liberybell]

I install the one way valve and so far it seems to be working okay.
Nevertheless this is my first install and it does not seem to be producing enough HHO for my Suburban 3/4 ton (V8 6.5L diesel). I have not measure the amount of HHO but it seems to be producing roughly under or around 1L/min. That seems to be no enough (I think) for this size engine.
This brings me to the following question (which I am going to open on another thread) What's the right proportion of HHO for each cc? Or what are the factors to take in account on that equation?

[volomike]

What are you using for electrolyte, and what's your mixture? For instance, I had good luck with 1 tablespoon of baking soda with 1.5cups of water, but we're switching to potash now and will experiment with our potentcy to see what gives us the right advantages with the least disadvantages.

[Stratous]

I do use a bubbler for my diesel, its in my bumper. I cant really take a picture of it because of its location. As for how much is enough HHO. I have basically one container that contains 4 cells producing 1.5lpm. I have seen MPG gains with that amount, but I believe 2LPM would be better. In order to achieve that amount, more than one unit will be required. I would imagine 4 seperate units would be enough to achieve that w/o pulling to much power. The amount of HHO produced is related to amperage draw, but I dont believe they are directly proportional. From experiance, on my last unit I could get .7 lpm at 9 amps. If the amperage and lpm were directly proportional, then 18 amps should equal 1.4 lmp. It doesnt work that way from my experiance. The more power you put into a cell the more waste there is, you may see increase, but its not going to equal the amount of power you put in. I think that 4 seperate cells drawing 5 amps each will produce more than one cell drawing 20 amps. Anyone else have any input on this?

[porkchop]

water in my bubbler is disappearing quick. I made a new one. I think it was having a "not as sturdy as I would like" plastic lid, on a glass jar. I have my injection point right below the butterfly valve, directly on the intake manifold.
(97 Jeep Grand Cherokee) I wonder if the vacuum was sucking it. It wasn't going into the electrolyser I don't think, I sure hope anyway. I drove about 15 minutes and about a pint was gone, and that was all I put in there. Looked to be pretty much bone dry. Changing the top of my 4" PVC container from a female adapter and male cap, to a male adapter with a screw cap. I was leaking out the top, I think because the body of the container was heating up and expanding, while the lid was not seeing as much heat, due to the fact the electrolyzer was not touching it. This was causing the container to have a leak around the threads (loose seal). I guess it would be a good idea to not use female adapter to male threaded lid. Vise versa, male adapter to female lid, the body will expand causing the seal to become tighter.
This might be (it would, in my opinion) a good observation to note when making a container out of PVC.
Anyway, I'll post some picts when I get things rerouted and in place.
Side note. When removing an oxygen sensor, remove straps and coupling connector.
I just learned the hard way. Had to buy a new one when the wires came loose inside the O2 sensor. It was the original, but still, it was working and was 70$ extra that could have been saved.

[Ronjinsan]

I cant wait for your pics....by what you write I would say there are some odd problems with your setup!

[porkchop]

I am an odd person...LOL. Anyway, an update on the bubbler sucking. i witnessed it yesterday. It IS going into my hydrogen unit.
I believe it is from a leak on the container causing the suction. I have hooked up my gen. to the intake manifold below the butterfly valve. Since the vacuum is greater on the manifold(at least from what I have read in other posts) when the engine is shut off, the vacuum created "breathes" backward. That and when the generator shuts off the area in the generator gets smaller (heat/cool contracting) and sucks it back.
The bubbler only gets sucked out after the engine is shut off. The suction was fast. I am going to install a check valve in between the two.
I am having problems finding a suitable check valve. I don't want metal, so the plastic ones I found, they don't have the opening I would like. I tried a PVC valve (it passed a blow test), but was too restrictive on the flow. I am going to try some Medical supplies stores. I used to be a paramedic (based in a hospital), and can attest to the fact the hospitals use many kinds of check valves that are plastic. Hope fully this will be the "check valve heaven" I am looking for.
Sorry Ron, I keep saying I will get pictures, this is my fault, I keep putting it off. I promise (there, that should make me do it) I will very shortly.

Just a side note. I ran without my unit going yesterday. I can't see ever going without one again. It runs sooo much better with it on. I never told my kids what I was doing to the car. The first time they got in, my 14yo said, " Dad, what ever you did to the car is making it run a lot better. It is so quiet, what did you do?"
I would also like to say thank you to who ever started this website up. I believe whoever did this is changing many peoples lives for the better.

[porkchop]

ok, I installed the new unit (container), and added a check valve. It worked. No more sucking the bubbler water out. I also used didtilled water in the bubbler, just in case.

[wljohns]

ok, I installed the new unit (container), and added a check valve. It worked. No more sucking the bubbler water out. I also used didtilled water in the bubbler, just in case.

Did you get the checkvalve from the medical supply store?

[porkchop]

Yes, but I lucked out. It just so happened that their "repair man" was interested in these units. I went to the back with him and got them off a piece of equipment he was using for parts. We talked, and he going to try also. But, I didn't find a place that just had them for sale.
For everyone: if you use a pvc unit, this stuff that is white ( pipe dope ) and basically pure teflon enables you to tighten your pvc screw fitting better without binding. I also suggest using a female adapter and a male cap. I took pictures tried to download them, but were to big for the requirements stated on the attachments page. I guess I will try to figure out how to make them smaller.

[Stratous]

Most photo programs will allow you to resize your photo's for web site publishing. I use microsoft picture manager. The program you used to load the photo to your pc should allow you to resize it.

[porkchop]

Alright, here it goes. Hey it worked. Bubbler has PVC attached to the inside and outside for threading of the fitting. The side is where I have the tube going into the water. I want a bigger container, but no more room. I also hooked up a tee to the outlet of the bubbler and attached it to the air intake above the butterfly valve, as well as leaving the inlet attached to the manifold (shown in Pict). I tee'd the hose going from the container to the bubbler, to facilitate the size of the check valve opening-vs-the I.D. of the tube. (I used two check valves in parallel to increase flow) I'll get some pictures of that if anyone is interested.
Plates are like the smack booster's, and they seem to work for me fine. Note, do not attach the leads directly to the PVC. I found they melt it. If you put a jam nut and washer, it seems to alleviate the problem, at least so far for me it has. I still want a better container. it is the weak part in the link I think. Still working on a solution for that.

[Ronjinsan]

Nice Porkchop...very nice! Love the bubbler...not fond of the bottom strap being so close to the plates! I have been the PVC bottle way several times and have been worried about heat every time. (Paranoid) Once I tested a PVC cell under lots of amps and it was only warm on the outside but when I opened it the water was almost boiling....very deceptive. A bit like a coke bottle in the fridge always feels warm to the touch even when really cold! LOL All the best!

[lou]

Y I took pictures tried to download them, but were to big for the requirements stated on the attachments page. I guess I will try to figure out how to make them smaller.
I have trouble with that to...
I often just upload my pics to photobucket and it allows me to embed the pic .....example to follow
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc51/stickey_02/S6303455.jpg

[Ronjinsan]

Woooaaah cell factory....you must be really happy with that design? Please tell me why there is a pipe to the bottom of the cell leading to the output? Thanx

[lou]

Woooaaah cell factory....you must be really happy with that design? Please tell me why there is a pipe to the bottom of the cell leading to the output? Thanx

It's like the one found at water4gas only it's double wrapped

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc51/stickey_02/S6303451.jpg


It's not my design
It's my buddy's he just joined this forum also. HHOwolfen :confused::confused:

I'm curious anyone try this on a diesel setup to run off WVO?

[Ronjinsan]

OK now I'm on the right thread......Hiya Lou just wanted to ask what the pipe up the middle is for? Or am I seeing this wrong?? looks like a pipe with a black thing on the end going up to the top?

[porkchop]

What kind of container you using? Can you get them at a store? I have got to find a better container.
I routed the output to both below and above the throttle plate. It decreased my mileage. I am putting it back to just a direct injection to the manifold. I AM going to figure out a way to have a larger container. Possibly multiple containers. I'll get a picture of the setup with everything installed. Initially, I was getting 15 more on hwy, with the split injection, (for my setup, yours may work better) I got 6.
Ron- PVC container is getting hot on extended use. I cut 4" PVC in half, heated it so it was malleable, and pressed it to the top of the PVC cap. It was then the same so I could cement it to the top. It seems to help control the problem of the leads wanting to "distort" the cap. I am running 20 amps.
(amp meter in line with unit and mounted inside vehicle for observation) I also have a switch that can power the unit on/off via a relay. The relay was a brake booster kit, 40 amp.(FYI)
I think I might try that SS coil.

[lou]

OK now I'm on the right thread......Hiya Lou just wanted to ask what the pipe up the middle is for? Or am I seeing this wrong?? looks like a pipe with a black thing on the end going up to the top?

Think I covered this on another thread :D:D

Give up everything you know about this plate setup:p