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thebargew
06-30-2008, 07:57 PM
Ok I have made some test elements as the spiral style and have made it work.
Now I am ready to build the real deal. I have read through understanding the neg draws the Hydro. But I do not under stand what you all mean by +NN-NN+ and so on. What is a N represent. Sorry if this is elementary.

airdude
06-30-2008, 08:24 PM
N stands for Neutral. No current going to those plates

thebargew
06-30-2008, 08:32 PM
N stands for Neutral. No current going to those plates

Hmm... OK what is the purpose of having metal with no current?

Stratous
06-30-2008, 09:51 PM
Hmm... OK what is the purpose of having metal with no current?

The purpose is to reduce the voltage accross the cell. Why? Because it only takes 1.4 volts to produce hydrogen from water. All the extra voltage is released as heat energy. Each nuetral plate drops the voltage accross the cell by 1 to 1.5 volts. Also the neutral plate will take the polarity of the nearest charged plate, so in effect the n plate can produce hho w/o actually being connected to the power supply. They also supposedly reduce amp draw though I havent tested this personally. Neutral plates are good if you cant step down the DC power. You can get the same effect by running 2 or more cells in series w/o neutral plates. Two cells in series would have 6 volts applied to each on a 12 volt system.

thebargew
07-01-2008, 01:22 PM
OK so would this be a good config

N-NN+NN-N this would give me two to one plates just as the 2 to 1 ratio of H2o

spob
07-01-2008, 05:07 PM
Your neutrals have to be within the positive and negative plates. Think about the voltage potential, just like in a battery. Neutral plates on the outside will not do anything.

Johnh
07-01-2008, 05:54 PM
A Neutral plate is not really a plate with no current, the current is induced into the plate through the electrolyte. But the current must be flowing from + to - so neutral plates outside the + and - connections have no effect.

The Neutral plates make as much H and O as any others.

If you are talking about a 12 volt system -NN+NN- is not really ideal as you still have 4 volts across each plate the volt drop looks like this
-4N4N4+4N4N4-

We are looking for between 1.5 and 2 volts so -2N2N2N2N2N2+ is better. As Stratous said it really only takes 1.4 volts but that is under laboratory conditions with ideal plates and ideal electrolyte concentration and we probably cant achieve that in practice so aim for between 1.5 and 2

The other way to achieve this is with cells in series so we could have
-NN|.........|NN+ or -....||.......||.......||.......||......||......||. ...+ (........ is the wiring between each cell) and end up with the same result 2 volts across each plate.

There is one down side to neutral plates and that is if you put them in a cell with water all around them the current on the edge may bypass the plate and go straight from + to - heating up the electrolyte without producing any gas. This is why in the Tero the plates have gaskets all the way around and in some on UTube they have filled up most of the way around with epoxy or something else nonconductive, just leaving enough room for the gas to get out and the electrolyte to get in at the bottom.

Hope this makes it a bit clearer
Regards
John

thebargew
07-01-2008, 08:23 PM
A Neutral plate is not really a plate with no current, the current is induced into the plate through the electrolyte. But the current must be flowing from + to - so neutral plates outside the + and - connections have no effect.

The Neutral plates make as much H and O as any others.

If you are talking about a 12 volt system -NN+NN- is not really ideal as you still have 4 volts across each plate the volt drop looks like this
-4N4N4+4N4N4-

We are looking for between 1.5 and 2 volts so -2N2N2N2N2N2+ is better. As Stratous said it really only takes 1.4 volts but that is under laboratory conditions with ideal plates and ideal electrolyte concentration and we probably cant achieve that in practice so aim for between 1.5 and 2

The other way to achieve this is with cells in series so we could have
-NN|.........|NN+ or -....||.......||.......||.......||......||......||. ...+ (........ is the wiring between each cell) and end up with the same result 2 volts across each plate.

There is one down side to neutral plates and that is if you put them in a cell with water all around them the current on the edge may bypass the plate and go straight from + to - heating up the electrolyte without producing any gas. This is why in the Tero the plates have gaskets all the way around and in some on UTube they have filled up most of the way around with epoxy or something else nonconductive, just leaving enough room for the gas to get out and the electrolyte to get in at the bottom.

Hope this makes it a bit clearer
Regards
John

So if I seal the ends such as with goop how does the h2o get in the plates?
Would I leave the top and bottom open?

Johnh
07-02-2008, 05:18 AM
So if I seal the ends such as with goop how does the h2o get in the plates?
Would I leave the top and bottom open?

You can either drill holes through the plates like the tero or leave them say 1/3 open on the top and bottom.
I think its probably better to leave the top and bottom open a bit but I haven't run a comparison on the same cell.
John

thebargew
07-02-2008, 12:51 PM
You can either drill holes through the plates like the tero or leave them say 1/3 open on the top and bottom.
I think its probably better to leave the top and bottom open a bit but I haven't run a comparison on the same cell.
John

I watched a few videos last night from ZFF and saw how he did his with acrylic and goop.. makes more sense now. Kind of a chimney effect.
Thanks all