Please help with suggestions on my set up

[howtomakeitwork]

OK now please be kind- this is our first attempt and first set up;) this is what we were using when we ran it for an hour, the checked MPG and it was worse- yet the jeep ran better- we found this very odd<br>http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/625/1002784si1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/1367/1002785er0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/9798/1002783jb7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Ronjinsan]

Hiya
May I ask one or two questions first? a/ Is that bottle plastic or glass? b/ Whats the blue thing sticking out of the lid? c/ Whats the black thing sticking out of the lid? d/ Why did you hang it in mid air at an angle? e/ What plate configuration do you have? The outlet elbow appears to be not even fitted into the pipe properly. The wires look to be a bit thin......have you checked the unit for leaks? Try switching it on and then put your thumb on the outlet elbow for a few seconds. You should get a pressure buildup in the cell which pops at your thumb when released!

[dennis13030]

Ronjinsan is correct. I think the wires should be thicker. Have you done any bench testing of the unit to determine the production of gasses? What is the current draw on the unit? How about a bubbler?

[rmptr]

...mpg was worse, jeep ran better...

Very short test of your unit w/spiral coil plates is working well enough to convince the O2 sensor mix is lean.
ECM compensated and is running rich mix.

More power, less mileage.

Congrats.

Now go to next step.

EFIE

All this is based on very limited info.

Best

[howtomakeitwork]

Hiya
May I ask one or two questions first? a/ Is that bottle plastic or glass? b/ Whats the blue thing sticking out of the lid? c/ Whats the black thing sticking out of the lid? d/ Why did you hang it in mid air at an angle? e/ What plate configuration do you have? The outlet elbow appears to be not even fitted into the pipe properly. The wires look to be a bit thin......have you checked the unit for leaks? Try switching it on and then put your thumb on the outlet elbow for a few seconds. You should get a pressure buildup in the cell which pops at your thumb when released!

Ok, thank you for your response.... first off, jar is glass, blue and black are just caps,,,we fit it in there any way it seemed to fit :) pipe was not on there correct- it just put it on the end for the picture :) checked for leaks, we're clean.... and will try for pressure- only tried that once, and could feel it, but hardly at all..... so, now what???? :) :) thanks!

[howtomakeitwork]

Ronjinsan is correct. I think the wires should be thicker. Have you done any bench testing of the unit to determine the production of gasses? What is the current draw on the unit? How about a bubbler?


ok we got the design from water4gas- no we did not pay for it. never thought about using thicker wire- may be a dumb question, but can you maybe explain the use? I believe you, just would like to understand a little better. we bought a bubbler, and never ended up using it. also, we have been using baking soda, and now reading through the forum is seems maybe that is not the way to go???

[lossing80]

I have a identical setup as this its from the water4gas page by Ozzy. The thing is he takes 90 pages to get to the point after trying to sell you 20 books! So I missed the whole idea behind all the little things I put on the bottle. I haven't really been able to create enough gas to make a bubbler! does anyone have some pics of a real working model they could show some pics of. please! I'm dying to hook this up to my Titan. Thanks

[howtomakeitwork]

...mpg was worse, jeep ran better...

Very short test of your unit w/spiral coil plates is working well enough to convince the O2 sensor mix is lean.
ECM compensated and is running rich mix.

More power, less mileage.

Congrats.

Now go to next step.

EFIE

All this is based on very limited info.
best


we did go just a short distance connected for 2 reasons: 1- kinda still afraid of over heating something, of some kind! 2- our buddy hooked his into his van- wired it wrong and ended up in his computer, very expensive mistake,,,, although we wired our very different,,, caution was still on the mind :eek:

[volomike]

Try this:

- Workbench it first before putting it in your vehicle. It's not only safer, but helps you test theories. I also recommend building several units, side by side, on that workbench. This helps you do comparative studies, perhaps in real time.

- Switch to potash instead of baking soda.

- Use distilled water, not tap.

- Do not use salt of any kind in it.

- If your unit is dirty, then clean it completely, then clean the soap off if you used that, and then test again.

- Don't use too much potash. Perhaps only 1 tablespoon, max, per 2 cups of distilled water.

- Use stainless steel metals, not copper or anything else. And that includes every piece of metal you use.

- Use a bubbler (which is not where the electrolysis occurs) that's a little bigger than the biggest mayonaise jar you can find. Make it a heavy glass one. It's a simple thing -- fill it half with water, one tube goes down to the bottom in the water, the other goes up near the top where the gas is. The HHO bubbles out of that and into the engine.

(A bubbler is also key because it's an excellent fire arrestor. A one-way valve, they say on the web, can't handle the speed to which HHO might backfire. That's why most guys use bubblers instead. They also use clear bubblers because you want to see how effective this thing is.)

- Plug the HHO gas that comes out of that into a place right past any sensors and as close as you can to the engine air intake manifold. I don't recommend drilling into the manifold. In my case, with my 2004 Grand Cherokee, we inject it right above the fuel injector area in the big box over that.

- Use a heavy gauge wire. We used 10 gauge.

- Run it direct from battery to a relay to a toggle switch and into the electrolyzer. Some people like to run it through an ignition switch or use a pulse wave modulator -- if you can figure out that electronics without blowing any fuses regularly, then have it. So far we haven't been able to figure that one out.



All and all, you'll probably end up where I am after all this:

- You'll have to figure out how to manage vacuum, because the engine creates tremendous vacuum that will try to pull electrolite water right out of your electrolyzer and into the engine.

- You'll have to figure out how to introduce a pulse wave modulator without burning it out.

- You'll want to figure out a way to reduce heat of the electrolyzer. We're switching a piece of alumunum we used and into stainless steel, although the rest of the unit is stainless. We're also going to try a longer electrolyzer to see if by being longer it produces more HHO. We can then reduce our amperage a bit and therefore reduce heat.

- Some people get super fancy with their electrolyzer, creating all kinds of combinations of +N-, +++N+++----, yada yada yada. I don't know if it works, but we'll sure give it a try.

- You'll find that when HHO does come out, the engine will get degunked on its own, probably giving you about 8mpg more at first. You'll take your HHO off and it will remain with that extra 8mpg more. This is because you've burned out the gunk out of the engine. Now, if you get this right, supposedly you can make it go from 8mpg more and into 30mpg more. That's why we're workbenching this.

- Note that a workbench can't show you real-world situations of vacuum or a battery that is being recharged as you drive, so you'll ultimately still have to test in your vehicle some more.

[howtomakeitwork]

great write up volomike, thank you for some great advice! back to the work table i guess. thanks!

[Stratous]

If you put 1 tablespoon of NaOH or KOH per 2 cups, your going to burn your engine up or house down. 1/8 teaspoon per half gallon of distilled water.

[Ronjinsan]

Whew that was a close one!

[howtomakeitwork]

If you put 1 tablespoon of NaOH or KOH per 2 cups, your going to burn your engine up or house down. 1/8 teaspoon per half gallon of distilled water.


Exactly what we are afraid of! lol

[ELECTR0N3RD]

OK now please be kind- this is our first attempt and first set up;) this is what we were using when we ran it for an hour, the checked MPG and it was worse- yet the jeep ran better- we found this very odd<br>http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/625/1002784si1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/1367/1002785er0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/9798/1002783jb7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
the same thing actually happened to me when i teted it on my 1994 dodge intrepid, i think it may be due to the oxygen sensors.

[howtomakeitwork]

the same thing actually happened to me when i teted it on my 1994 dodge intrepid, i think it may be due to the oxygen sensors.

could be, trying to get around that right now!

[SmoothieV]

Did you guys install EFIEs? Do you know how many, if any O2 sensors there are in your Jeep?