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sovereignenergy
02-14-2009, 12:42 PM
<p><a href="http://www.thegreenhomeheater.com/index.php?afid=1" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.thegreenhomeheater.com/promotional_pic/1.jpg"/></a></p>

The Green Home Heater is LIVE and in Pre Launch Stage for Affiliates to sign up. Tentativley we plan to launch for sales within the week with a retail price of 69.99 with a 50 % commission ($34.99) to affiliates. Our preliminary BTU test done by an independent lab is 32000 with only 700 watts of power consumtion.(all this type info will be available to the public soon)
We are working on concluding several corporate endorsements and sponsorships in order to make this a HUGE success!

If you currently have a hho website and would like to turn some of your traffic into cash we invite you to join our team and start benifiting from our R&D now!

Q-Hack!
02-14-2009, 03:39 PM
<p><a href="http://www.thegreenhomeheater.com/index.php?afid=1" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.thegreenhomeheater.com/promotional_pic/1.jpg"/></a></p>

The Green Home Heater is LIVE and in Pre Launch Stage for Affiliates to sign up. Tentativley we plan to launch for sales within the week with a retail price of 69.99 with a 50 % commission ($34.99) to affiliates. Our preliminary BTU test done by an independent lab is 32000 with only 700 watts of power consumtion.(all this type info will be available to the public soon)
We are working on concluding several corporate endorsements and sponsorships in order to make this a HUGE success!

If you currently have a hho website and would like to turn some of your traffic into cash we invite you to join our team and start benifiting from our R&D now!

Uh... Assuming this plugs into the 110v wall outlet; 32,000 BTU on 700 watts? That only 6 amps. I might believe 32,000 BTU on 7000 Watts. That would put it at around 63 Amps. You can't generate enough HHO on 6 amps to run a small torch, let alone something that will heat your home.

sovereignenergy
02-14-2009, 03:57 PM
Uh... Assuming this plugs into the 110v wall outlet; 32,000 BTU on 700 watts? That only 6 amps. I might believe 32,000 BTU on 7000 Watts. That would put it at around 63 Amps. You can't generate enough HHO on 6 amps to run a small torch, let alone something that will heat your home.

yes it is powered by 110 and 700 watts produces about 6.5 LPM been doing that for more than 2 years now.

ac amps and dc amps arent the same

jericoriver
02-14-2009, 04:15 PM
Can you tell us how you measured your LPM?

Q-Hack!
02-14-2009, 04:31 PM
yes it is powered by 110 and 700 watts produces about 6.5 LPM been doing that for more than 2 years now.

ac amps and dc amps arent the same

I would be curious to know what your plate stack configuration is (assuming you are using plates.) To get down to a 2 volt plate gap would require 55 plates, at which point you will have trouble getting your electrolyte to flow effectively. If you are using less plates then you will have thermal runnaway issues with the HHO generator. What is your secret?

SmartScarecrow
02-15-2009, 12:22 AM
yeah, there is obviously something fishy with the numbers ... the performance levels indicated are not consistent with brute force electrolysis ... if you are not employing brute force electrolysis and have not disclosed your method so that others can replicate your technique, shame on you ...

if I have source power of 110vAC at 6 amps, roughly 700 watts, and I then rectify that source output and send the rectified juice to my 65 plate device, I can measure about 138vDC at my electrolyzer (a bit more if I use a 4000uF cap) and can pull roughly 6 amps ... there is some modest loss to heat at the rectifier but at these low power levels Its pretty hard to measure ... I just assume I am losing a little bit because the rectifier do gets a bit warm ..

the kick in the head is the output volume ...

my device is probably one of the more efficient field capable devices I have ever seen in operation ... I have seen some in the lab that are bit more efficient than mine, but not by much ... as it is a hand built prototype of fairly advanced design and construction it is quite a bit more efficient than the typical commercial offering ... but best I could do with roughly 700 watts of input power would be about 4 lpm ...

now granted, most folks do not go to the lengths I do to get as accurate as possible a measure of output performance ... I literally run my gas output through a dryer and an ice water bubbler so that the gas I measure is never hotter than ambient air and contains no steam or water vapor ...

it could be that if I measured the raw output of my device after it had a chance to get well warmed up, I might get a reading of 6.5 lpm ... but I would never have thought to discuss a reading that I knew was not a true indication of real performance and would toss it out as being unreliable ...

BUT, even 4 lpm of gas output is adequate to run a pretty decent HHO torch ... as a matter of fact, it would be quite possible to use this much flow to maintain a pretty stable, if small, flame on as many as 4 .020 orifices at the same time ... so there is no question but that 110vAC at 6 amps is capable of producing a useful quantity of HHO ...

but converting this little bit of HHO into 32kBTU of heat output is yet another neat trick I would need to see in action to believe ... this sounds just too good to be true ... normally, when you are presented with an offer that is too good be true, there is a long list of exceptions or something about making a deal with the devil involved ...

so I would have to say, "show me" ... these are some pretty spectacular claims ... spectacular claims require spectacular proof ...

oicu812
02-15-2009, 01:08 AM
if it sounds to good to be true it probebly isn't true. all that for $35.00 a unit? this guys a complete jerk-off.

SmartScarecrow
02-15-2009, 02:10 AM
No it's $70 for a subscription to plans..... Hell if I were going to pay I would spend $39.99 on www.HHOHHU.com first. At lease their site is a lot more professional....

look, don't misunderstand me, I hope the guy has a real product that performs to client expectation and that he makes a lot of money ... for HHO to get mainstream and be better accepted we need reliable, reputable vendors, selling good quality products that deliver on their promises ...

but we got more than enough snake oil peddlers out there that are making the rest look like crack pots ... building unrealistic expectations and taking advantage of desperate people is not the way to build an industry that has staying power ...

so all I would really hope for is that this fellow not misrepresent what he has to offer and make his customers happy ... if you tell them 100,000 and all they get is 50,000 they are going to be ****ed off ... even if the 50,000 was a highly desirable outcome ...

if you represent honestly, you might not sell as many ... but those who buy will be pleased with the purchase and will tell their friends ... problem is, the unhappy ones tell their friends also ...

oicu812
02-15-2009, 02:44 AM
No it's $70 for a subscription to plans..... Hell if I were going to pay I would spend $39.99 on www.HHOHHU.com first. At lease their site is a lot more professional....

what a scammer, you've got to be kidding me $70 bucks to see some silly plans...how the hell do these people live with themselves.

webeopelas
02-15-2009, 02:44 AM
Sorry, two different "companies" come up with exactly the same product with the same specs, and decide to market it the exact same way ie subscription service??

I call BS, SNAKEOIL, CON-MEN, FLIM-FLAM, and whatever other names you wish to add.

SmartScarecrow
02-15-2009, 02:54 AM
Sorry, two different "companies" come up with exactly the same product with the same specs, and decide to market it the exact same way ie subscription service??

I call BS, SNAKEOIL, CON-MEN, FLIM-FLAM, and whatever other names you wish to add.


eventually a standards organization will be available to validate vendor claims ... there are honorable people working in this direction now ... see http://www.ihhof.org for details ...

sovereignenergy
02-15-2009, 03:14 AM
yeah, there is obviously something fishy with the numbers ... the performance levels indicated are not consistent with brute force electrolysis ... if you are not employing brute force electrolysis and have not disclosed your method so that others can replicate your technique, shame on you ...

if I have source power of 110vAC at 6 amps, roughly 700 watts, and I then rectify that source output and send the rectified juice to my 65 plate device, I can measure about 138vDC at my electrolyzer (a bit more if I use a 4000uF cap) and can pull roughly 6 amps ... there is some modest loss to heat at the rectifier but at these low power levels Its pretty hard to measure ... I just assume I am losing a little bit because the rectifier do gets a bit warm ..

the kick in the head is the output volume ...

my device is probably one of the more efficient field capable devices I have ever seen in operation ... I have seen some in the lab that are bit more efficient than mine, but not by much ... as it is a hand built prototype of fairly advanced design and construction it is quite a bit more efficient than the typical commercial offering ... but best I could do with roughly 700 watts of input power would be about 4 lpm ...

now granted, most folks do not go to the lengths I do to get as accurate as possible a measure of output performance ... I literally run my gas output through a dryer and an ice water bubbler so that the gas I measure is never hotter than ambient air and contains no steam or water vapor ...

it could be that if I measured the raw output of my device after it had a chance to get well warmed up, I might get a reading of 6.5 lpm ... but I would never have thought to discuss a reading that I knew was not a true indication of real performance and would toss it out as being unreliable ...

BUT, even 4 lpm of gas output is adequate to run a pretty decent HHO torch ... as a matter of fact, it would be quite possible to use this much flow to maintain a pretty stable, if small, flame on as many as 4 .020 orifices at the same time ... so there is no question but that 110vAC at 6 amps is capable of producing a useful quantity of HHO ...

but converting this little bit of HHO into 32kBTU of heat output is yet another neat trick I would need to see in action to believe ... this sounds just too good to be true ... normally, when you are presented with an offer that is too good be true, there is a long list of exceptions or something about making a deal with the devil involved ...

so I would have to say, "show me" ... these are some pretty spectacular claims ... spectacular claims require spectacular proof ...

First of all i am suprised that everyone seems to want to crucify me! I haven't charged any money for anything to anyone! I was only announcing a PRE- launch for affiliates to sign up. The key word is PRE-launch :)

2nd : on amps for you scarecrow
The unit has a 110v power supply converting AC to DC
your running about 55-60 DC amps to the hydrogen cell.

3. The green home heater is a new website yes!
www.sovereignenergysolutions.com is not and have been manufacturing dry cell's for aroud 2 years and was the original supplier to people such as "the sid cell" whom EBN copied from to be what is known as the "EBN DRY CELL"
sovereign energy solutions has been sitting in the background on the manufacturing side for quit some time while others brand the unit we have been making for a long long time.

4. The goal and hope of the green home heater is 2 fold

a. Yes to make some $$ to further R&D in hopes to bring more hho technologies truely to market. Many of you guys on here have experienced dramatic sales drops in hho products due to Gas prices dropping but you still have traffic so our thought was why not utilize that traffic make everyone some $$ to further this technology.

b. design a Home heating product with HHO that the average joe could truely build, have quality electrolysers,be safe(no bronze wool stuffed tubes), and achieve very good results. This one was a challenge, very much so!
scarecrow this on is for you!
What is the greatest drawback to heating with naural gas or propane or any of the other heating fuels for homes?
What dramatic difference do we have with HHO vs those above in terms of efficiency of heating air?
Hint: think plummel a natural gas furnace does what?
2nd hint: emissions

5. as far as price goes! 69.99 retail for access to plans, Step by Step videos ect.. This price is not set in stone!

The goal here is to get the hho technology TO THE AVERAGE CONSUMER.
Question 1:
If we charged $20 with a 50% commision to affiliates would they promote the site for a 10 bucks a sale?

Question 2: We could make the price a very nominal price just to cover bandwidth and servers and up keep ($4.99 maybe). But would the site go viral and truely get the traffic and get the exposure and knowledge to the general public?

finally i hope i haven't missed any questions here if so i would be happy to answer and discuss any questions.

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/kjPX8syoUW0&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

SmartScarecrow
02-15-2009, 03:52 AM
2nd : on amps for you scarecrow
The unit has a 110v power supply converting AC to DC
your running about 55-60 DC amps to the hydrogen cell.

well, whether its 700 watts supplied by 100v @ 7a or 7v @ 100a, 700w is still 700w and 6.5 lpm produced with 700w of brute force is a pretty slick trick to pull off.

3. is not and have been manufacturing dry cell's for aroud 2 years and was the original supplier to people such as "the sid cell" whom EBN copied from to be what is known as the "EBN DRY CELL"

sovereign energy solutions has been sitting in the background on the manufacturing side for quit some time while others brand the unit we have been making for a long long time.

Your depiction of historical events is not accurate. Sid Young was one of 22 original members of the design team that contributed to the development of what came to be known as the "EBN Dry Cell".

His initial design was rejected as was mine. Design elements of both his and mine were integrated along with contributions from many others who refined the design. Sid got into an unfortunate disagreement with another member of the design team and decided to go it on his his own.

It was always our intent that the design we came up with would be made public domain so we said nothing when Sid quite literally put his name on the device and sold it in competition with EBN. As a group, the members of the EBN team wish Sid well and hope he continues to improve on the design.

Your depiction would insinuate that EBN in some way treated Sid unfairly or stole something from him. Nothing could be further from the truth. For quite some time after Sid left EBN, we provided him with access to the unique gaskets required to help him along. We have made a point of dealing fairly with everyone we deal with.

Frankly, your statement is slanderous and cannot go unchallenged.

sovereignenergy
02-15-2009, 03:59 AM
I signed up under the free membership and can let everyone know to NOT WASTE YOUR TIME!

Ok so you are using a converted PC power supply (ie changing the 120AC to 12v DC.....) To get 700W.. or 12v @ 58.3amp. Most PC power supplies will not do that. In fact it will take 3 to get that.


Shane it is pre launch ! we aren't taking money yet!

here is the specs on the power supply
12 v at 19 amps X 4

sovereignenergy
02-15-2009, 04:19 AM
2nd : on amps for you scarecrow
The unit has a 110v power supply converting AC to DC
your running about 55-60 DC amps to the hydrogen cell.

well, whether its 700 watts supplied by 100v @ 7a or 7v @ 100a, 700w is still 700w and 6.5 lpm produced with 700w of brute force is a pretty slick trick to pull off.

3. is not and have been manufacturing dry cell's for aroud 2 years and was the original supplier to people such as "the sid cell" whom EBN copied from to be what is known as the "EBN DRY CELL"

sovereign energy solutions has been sitting in the background on the manufacturing side for quit some time while others brand the unit we have been making for a long long time.

Your depiction of historical events is not accurate. Sid Young was one of 22 original members of the design team that contributed to the development of what came to be known as the "EBN Dry Cell".

His initial design was rejected as was mine. Design elements of both his and mine were integrated along with contributions from many others who refined the design. Sid got into an unfortunate disagreement with another member of the design team and decided to go it on his his own.

It was always our intent that the design we came up with would be made public domain so we said nothing when Sid quite literally put his name on the device and sold it in competition with EBN. As a group, the members of the EBN team wish Sid well and hope he continues to improve on the design.

Your depiction would insinuate that EBN in some way treated Sid unfairly or stole something from him. Nothing could be further from the truth. For quite some time after Sid left EBN, we provided him with access to the unique gaskets required to help him along. We have made a point of dealing fairly with everyone we deal with.

Frankly, your statement is slanderous and cannot go unchallenged.

I am not insinuating unfair treatment of anyone.
I am well aware of the situation between ebn and sid and in fact the single stock share that he recieved he took as an insult from ebn.(sid's words not mine)
when you guys were developing your dry cell with EBN sid was using my cell design as the origin i argued over changing my design with him long before ebn existed. he joined up with or helped found ebn if i remember right (not sure) but then came back to me as his supplier and eventually used my design after whatever the fallout was with the EBN member. I was sid's supplier and dropped shipped for all his customers. he and the ebn supplier ran out of scrap steel and could not maintain the cheap plates in the beginning.

all that doesn't even matter to me.
I have been building dry cells for more than 2 yrs now stable and very high output 5 10 20 50 LPM.
water electrolysis is simple producing high output hho is easy too. The hard part is putting it into useful products and getting those products mainstream!
we should have a phone conversation scarecrow.
You just might be suprised:)

sovereignenergy
02-15-2009, 04:29 AM
Ok so you are using a $150ish power supply..... and......

How are you getting 9+MMW?

honestly i havent been concerned as much with mmw.
cold start is around 7. comething mmw and climbs up as it warms up.

the important thing is watts. im sure cell efficiency will come into play later.

The efficiency that matter most right now is heating efficiency (watts)

we have been getting 300-350 F on the hot air output
I want to be clear on something
The is a space heater with hho not a whole house heater.
the next stage is to convert existing NG furnaces
and 3rd stage is a whole house heater from HHO but that is gonna take some serious capital and R&D UL approvals and all kinds of beaurocrasy and regulation to get through.
its going to be similar the the gestapo epa rules that currently prevent us from predictible gains due to the learning consumer car ECU!

jericoriver
02-15-2009, 04:34 AM
The power supply is rated at input/ 115 volts 12 amps. Thats 1380 watts of power consumed to produce 6.5 lpm. not 700 watts.
6500/1380=4.7 mmw
assuming the power supply is loaded,and the LPM is measured accurate.
1380 watts of electric heat is 4,710 BTU's ,If your getting 32,000 BTU, thats a COP of 6.78.
COP=Coefficient of performance.A cop of 1 is 3,413 btu output/1KW input, heatpumps usually range from 2 thru 4.5, with the 4.5's being geothermal.

sovereignenergy
02-15-2009, 04:47 AM
The power supply is rated at input/ 115 volts 12 amps. Thats 1380 watts of power consumed to produce 6.5 lpm. not 700 watts.
6500/1380=4.7
assuming the power supply is loaded and the LPM is measured accurate.
1380 watts of electric heat is 4,710 BTU's ,If your getting 32,000 BTU thats a COP of 6.78

we are oly using the 12v rails of the power supply right now.
i was trying to hint to scarecrow in an earlier post of how we can get the high btu's using hho. so i will go ahead and try to explain the best i can.

on all other flame furnaces they burn a fuel such as natural gas and have to be vented through the roof like your NG HVAC units because of harmful emissions like carbon monoxide right.

with HHO we don't have to!
so basically you take into account the high heat reaction of the hho flame to different materials and the fact we DO NOT HAVE TO VENT THE EHAUST FROM THE FLAME!
and you can now SUPER HEAT a meterial to allow higher volumes of cold air to be SUPER heated.

hopefully that makes sense to you guys.

sovereignenergy
02-15-2009, 04:51 AM
Ok so you are using a $150ish power supply?
actually we have found a 850w power supply you can get retail for $60.00 that works great for this

SmartScarecrow
02-15-2009, 05:30 AM
am not insinuating unfair treatment of anyone.
I am well aware of the situation between ebn and sid and in fact the single stock share that he recieved he took as an insult from ebn.(sid's words not mine)
when you guys were developing your dry cell with EBN sid was using my cell design as the origin i argued over changing my design with him long before ebn existed. he joined up with or helped found ebn if i remember right (not sure) but then came back to me as his supplier and eventually used my design after whatever the fallout was with the EBN member. I was sid's supplier and dropped shipped for all his customers. he and the ebn supplier ran out of scrap steel and could not maintain the cheap plates in the beginning.

we should have a phone conversation scarecrow.
You just might be suprised:)



before there was an "EBN Dry Cell", before there was a "Sid Cell" there was a proof of concept prototype assembled by me ... yes it was indeed assembled from scrap steel for as little in development costs as possible, because I was paying out my own pocket for the materials and fabrication ... I published a YouTube video in June of 2008 as a "teaser" that even named Sid as a design team member in the credits ... at the time, he was still with EBN ... as far as I know, this was the first example of this particular design constructed and it became the proof of concept for both EBN's and Sid's products ...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjGBtUqQcAY

upon formation of the corporation, everyone who participated in the original design effort was rewarded with one share of EBN stock, myself included ... to the best of my knowledge, less than 50 shares of EBN stock have been issued so I am not sure why anyone would consider this to be an insult ... I felt honored to be recognized for my contribution ...

many of the players within EBN, myself included, had fabricated devices based on Tero Ranta's publised pattern as early as 2006 ... so none of us had the large brass ones to claim the device as "our invention" ... it was simply our interpretation of a well known, reliable design ...

our efforts were focused on safe operation and ease of mass production ... our intent was to influence other experimenters in the field and get them to move away from what we considered to be the rather hazardous designs that were common just 12 months ago ... in all things we had set out to do, we have succeeded so far ... and to date, we have not had to lie to or cheat anyone to do it ... but then our expectations were modest ...

I hope this helps to set the record straight to your satisfaction and that you will not persist in spreading what amounts to hearsay gossip about things you really do not know ...

you and I agree that reliable products that perform as advertised are critical to advancing this fledgling industry into the mainstream ... however, it is my opinion that our industry is at a fragile transitional state and that products that do not live up to consumer expectation could hurt the industry as a whole ...

I can be reached by email at [email protected] ... I keep a pretty brutal schedule but am available by phone ... EBN's phone number is 703-842-3005 ... I am on ext 5100 ... but it typically ends up in voice mail as I am rarely sitting at desk waiting for a phone call ... but I do return calls at least once a day, more often when I can ...

sovereignenergy
02-15-2009, 05:49 AM
Ok so from everything you have said, the sid cell is actually your design. And you get 7MMW cold with it....

I’m sorry but there is no way in hell a Sid cell is getting 7MMW. Not on it's best day.

All I can say is you are off somewhere on your measurements.

Now as for an HHO powered whole house heater, it will never happen. At least not commercially available. There would have to be a lot of home built ones first, then all it will take is for 1 of them to burn down a house. “They are just too dangerous” is what will be said. That is if they are even effective….

LOL they also said you can't get 10 lpm or 20 lpm for that matter under the hood of a car but i do that every day!

They say you can't get 4000f out of a 279F flame but we do that too!


That's the problem with this country the i can't or you can't mentality! please don't take that as an offense it isn't meant that way!


YES I CAN and YES WE CAN!
We can get free energy to the people
we can get 100 mpg on a car
we can get free electricity
we can get free heat!

and actually the HHO on demand is safer than any propane or natural gas!

Q-Hack!
02-15-2009, 06:43 AM
That is one thing about posting on this forum... we are going to keep you honest.

Once you dump those 12v rails in parallel, you increase your power capability. 19 amp X 4 = 76 Amps. That would be enough to run a torch.

However in order to get the 6.5 L you claim, requires either your gas temp to be something like 215 Fahrenheit at sea level. Unlikely.

or:

With a gas temp of 110 Fahrenheit your barometric pressure needs to be about 860 millibars (think 8,000 ft. mountain). Do you live in Colorado?

If you are not figuring MMW, then you need to be. A system that works great at higher altitudes will perform poorly at sea level. Here is a link to help find your MMW: http://aquauto.com/blogs/nickstone/mmw-calculator

SmartScarecrow
02-15-2009, 06:48 AM
LOL they also said you can't get 10 lpm or 20 lpm for that matter under the hood of a car but i do that every day!

They say you can't get 4000f out of a 279F flame but we do that too!


That's the problem with this country the i can't or you can't mentality! please don't take that as an offense it isn't meant that way!


YES I CAN and YES WE CAN!
We can get free energy to the people
we can get 100 mpg on a car
we can get free electricity
we can get free heat!

and actually the HHO on demand is safer than any propane or natural gas!


in our recent small engine test runs, d3adp001 and I were typically making 10 lpm ... at times we were making 20 lpm ... and when we were running tests of our prototype delivery systems, we made 40 lpm ... what we found out was that our delivery systems were only safe up to about 10 lpm ... at 20 lpm flow rates we stood a better than average chance of being chased around the yard by flying debris ... at 40 liters per minute we were scared to death to try to force a flash back ... we learned at least as much about safe handling and delivery of fairly large volumes of gas than we did about running internal combustion engines on HHO ...

we also ran some very interesting materials tests related to home heating ... at this point though, its all pure research ... no products in that area will be forthcoming from EBN any time soon ... however, the work we have done on the HHO torch may result in a commercial offering as early as fall of this year ... when we announce the product, they will be sitting on reseller shelves ready to deliver ... the hho torch is able to vaporize tungsten ... my understanding is that this requires temperatures of nearly 10000F ... so 4000F should be child's play ...

SmartScarecrow
02-15-2009, 07:06 AM
the trick to it is to focus a fairly tight almost laser like point of very high temperature on a material that can absorb and dissipate the heat ...

there are ceramic materials that have properties that are useful ... there is also a crystallized sodium based material that can be melted and will retain the heat used to melt it into a semi-liquid state for some time after the heat is removed ... such a material could prove to be quite useful in a home heating or perhaps water heating application ...

it is also quite possible to get an HHO flame to burn under water causing the water to heat up ... run through a heat exchanger to keep the internal plumbing cool and transfer the heat into room air could be done easily enough ... been there, done that ...

so there are ways to approach this problem that have promise ... I am hopeful that a viable commercial product that is efficient, effective and safe to operate can be developed ... its not outside the realm of possibility and breaks no laws of physics ...

sovereignenergy
02-15-2009, 04:16 PM
am not insinuating unfair treatment of anyone.
I am well aware of the situation between ebn and sid and in fact the single stock share that he recieved he took as an insult from ebn.(sid's words not mine)
when you guys were developing your dry cell with EBN sid was using my cell design as the origin i argued over changing my design with him long before ebn existed. he joined up with or helped found ebn if i remember right (not sure) but then came back to me as his supplier and eventually used my design after whatever the fallout was with the EBN member. I was sid's supplier and dropped shipped for all his customers. he and the ebn supplier ran out of scrap steel and could not maintain the cheap plates in the beginning.

we should have a phone conversation scarecrow.
You just might be suprised:)



before there was an "EBN Dry Cell", before there was a "Sid Cell" there was a proof of concept prototype assembled by me ... yes it was indeed assembled from scrap steel for as little in development costs as possible, because I was paying out my own pocket for the materials and fabrication ... I published a YouTube video in June of 2008 as a "teaser" that even named Sid as a design team member in the credits ... at the time, he was still with EBN ... as far as I know, this was the first example of this particular design constructed and it became the proof of concept for both EBN's and Sid's products ...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjGBtUqQcAY

upon formation of the corporation, everyone who participated in the original design effort was rewarded with one share of EBN stock, myself included ... to the best of my knowledge, less than 50 shares of EBN stock have been issued so I am not sure why anyone would consider this to be an insult ... I felt honored to be recognized for my contribution ...

many of the players within EBN, myself included, had fabricated devices based on Tero Ranta's publised pattern as early as 2006 ... so none of us had the large brass ones to claim the device as "our invention" ... it was simply our interpretation of a well known, reliable design ...

our efforts were focused on safe operation and ease of mass production ... our intent was to influence other experimenters in the field and get them to move away from what we considered to be the rather hazardous designs that were common just 12 months ago ... in all things we had set out to do, we have succeeded so far ... and to date, we have not had to lie to or cheat anyone to do it ... but then our expectations were modest ...

I hope this helps to set the record straight to your satisfaction and that you will not persist in spreading what amounts to hearsay gossip about things you really do not know ...

you and I agree that reliable products that perform as advertised are critical to advancing this fledgling industry into the mainstream ... however, it is my opinion that our industry is at a fragile transitional state and that products that do not live up to consumer expectation could hurt the industry as a whole ...

I can be reached by email at [email protected] ... I keep a pretty brutal schedule but am available by phone ... EBN's phone number is 703-842-3005 ... I am on ext 5100 ... but it typically ends up in voice mail as I am rarely sitting at desk waiting for a phone call ... but I do return calls at least once a day, more often when I can ...

2 points: i am not claiming to have the first dry cell ever at all.
we all copied from different patent sources or another to get the ideas. the is a russian patent that is very old that has a series dry cell which gave me a lot of my direction
and 2nd:

I am not against and do not down the EBN in any way, actually i wish there were 100 groups like EBN out there to help raise awareness so we can take back our country!

Gary Diamond
03-01-2009, 11:43 PM
Its a fake

Discerner
03-02-2009, 06:28 AM
we are oly using the 12v rails of the power supply right now.
i was trying to hint to scarecrow in an earlier post of how we can get the high btu's using hho. so i will go ahead and try to explain the best i can.

on all other flame furnaces they burn a fuel such as natural gas and have to be vented through the roof like your NG HVAC units because of harmful emissions like carbon monoxide right.

with HHO we don't have to!
so basically you take into account the high heat reaction of the hho flame to different materials and the fact we DO NOT HAVE TO VENT THE EHAUST FROM THE FLAME!
and you can now SUPER HEAT a meterial to allow higher volumes of cold air to be SUPER heated.

hopefully that makes sense to you guys.


Yes it can, and already has been done by more than one entity.
Let me be clear here: The concept has been done as in tested in a laboratory, NOT done as in for sale at Wal-Mart.

See here:
http://www.google.com/patents?id=U5wJAAAAEBAJ&dq=6397834

Patent# 6397834

The question is can it be done at that efficiency level that is claimed? :confused:

Davehho1
04-04-2009, 02:35 PM
Glad as heck to see people getting into the heating aspect of hho

Scarecrow, I was just going to say the Koreans are patenting everything related to HHO and heating and here you are with one of their patents ! LOL


Got some questions ,


How did you calulate BTU's off your unit ? Ive had pros attempt it .


Has anyone done real testing for:

Unburnt gas fumes related to HHO / Electrolyte consumption ?

Anyone keeping track of H20 consumption ?

Any over heating issues with the aforemetioned green heater ?



One thing, HHO for heating is going to take off, and take off BIG !

Davehho1
04-08-2009, 11:13 AM
Questions are plentiful

Answers are few