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Stratous
07-03-2008, 08:46 PM
I am currently building custom sized polycarbonate generators. I build them as the request comes in, so I dont have stocked units. Generally the units will run from $140 to $220. Price depends on size and amount of plates. These units are a bit large and hold a gallon or more of electrolyte. I have posted photos of a single cell unit and a double cell unit. The single cell produces .7 LPM at about 7 amps and the double cell I havent been able to measure yet, but it produces very well at 9 amps as you can see by the picture. The unit ran for 3 hours and the temp only reached 122°. The other photo is of a bubbler. It measures 2 X 2 X 6 inches. You can PM me in these boards, or email me at rjmarb1@suddenlink.net

rmptr
07-03-2008, 09:46 PM
Very nice looking cell!

ELECTR0N3RD
07-04-2008, 02:50 AM
very nice looking cell, what did you use plexiglass of some sort?, also what kind of stats are you getting from that and are you using neutrals?

computerclinic
07-04-2008, 09:25 AM
Schweet!!! Just wondering about the overall DRY weight of the single and double cells. I can relocate my battery into the trunk if necessary, but I would like to explore other mounting options as well....Dimensions seem to be okay, but overall weight will be a factor, too.

Stratous
07-04-2008, 10:33 AM
I am not sure what the weight of the empty units are. I would guess about four pounds. Full of liquid, it would weigh close to 13 lbs. The double would weigh close to 15. I use 6 neutrals in the single cell unit and 8 in the double cell unit. I know that these are large for most peoples taste, but I built them large to allow for sustainability. They will run for several hours, not sure how long as I got really bored after 3 hours and decided to goto bed. The units are built with polycarbonate plastic that can withstand continous service at 270°F. The plastice is 3/8" thick or .375" or 9.5mm. The plate spacing is 1.5mm thick or .06". These two units were actually build for other people. The size was at their request to fit the location they had chosen. These two are just an example as my boxes are custom built by your specifications.

computerclinic
07-04-2008, 11:33 AM
Looks like those particular cells have the potential for application in larger vehicles if you can get the LPM a bit higher, especially big rigs that travel for long preiods and have the space avail in a safe location. I may be ordering one myself soon Stratous, depends on my final shape and size selection for my mobile tests....Still doing my homework and bench tests...How much for a comperable size single cell with no metal, holes, or fittings?

Stratous
07-04-2008, 02:55 PM
Around $80 to $90.

computerclinic
07-05-2008, 01:15 PM
I will be talking with you very soon, likely by next weekend if all goes well...I would like to have one on hand for experiments and demonstrations. I will be opening an e-commerce site soon that will sell parts and pieces, maybe even partial kits where folks can customise, mix and match.
1. Can you get Poly on a regular basis
2. Do you accept Paypal?

Stratous
07-05-2008, 03:58 PM
I will be talking with you very soon, likely by next weekend if all goes well...I would like to have one on hand for experiments and demonstrations. I will be opening an e-commerce site soon that will sell parts and pieces, maybe even partial kits where folks can customise, mix and match.
1. Can you get Poly on a regular basis
2. Do you accept Paypal?

I have a paypal account, but havent used it much. I assume since I have an account that I can accept payment that way.

I can get as much poly as I need. There is a local plastic factory here in our town.

Atechguy
07-13-2008, 08:48 AM
POLY or lexan http://www.flotronicpumps.co.uk/templates/page_01.php?cfp=page:0004Son chemical compatibilty chart is not good for use for KOH or NaOH .:eek:

Stratous
07-13-2008, 11:26 AM
POLY or lexan http://www.flotronicpumps.co.uk/templates/page_01.php?cfp=page:0004Son chemical compatibilty chart is not good for use for KOH or NaOH .:eek:

You would be correct, but the test was done with pure NaOH. The Lexan was left submerged in the NaOH for 48 hours. So far none of the units I have built have shown any sign of damage by the NaOH. I would imagine its because it highly diluted by water.

Atechguy
07-13-2008, 11:33 AM
Thanks Stratous that makes sense, someone on another forum brought this up and i started to panic because i had bought a similar unit . Thanks ;)

shortstack
08-09-2008, 06:12 PM
how would u clean the cells?

dennis13030
08-09-2008, 09:17 PM
I am currently building custom sized polycarbonate generators. I build them as the request comes in, so I dont have stocked units. Generally the units will run from $140 to $220. Price depends on size and amount of plates. These units are a bit large and hold a gallon or more of electrolyte. I have posted photos of a single cell unit and a double cell unit. The single cell produces .7 LPM at about 7 amps and the double cell I havent been able to measure yet, but it produces very well at 9 amps as you can see by the picture. The unit ran for 3 hours and the temp only reached 122°. The other photo is of a bubbler. It measures 2 X 2 X 6 inches. You can PM me in these boards, or email me at rjmarb1@suddenlink.net

Hey Stratous,

With the polycarbonate boxes you make, I have a couple questions.

1. With the adhesive that you use to bind the bottom and sides together, do you sometimes have to add more adhesive after the first application has cured to complete the air/water tight seal?

2. Can you do graceful heat treated bends to the 3/8" polycarbonate? Like if I wanted a 90 degree bend.

smartHHO
08-11-2008, 01:47 PM
Good looking box. Was thinking about going that way with my cell that I am waiting on. I am still in the experimentation stage of making one that looks good and has real good output. I know that discs don't seem to put out much from some test results that have been run so far. So seems square plates are going to be the way to go. Does the place you get the poly from have a website by chance? Want to have a look at what they are asking and what not incase I can get some or find a place around here. 275 deg is nice high temp.

Also, what are you using to glue them together after your cuts? Due to temp and water/air-tight restrictions. I know a friend of mine showed me some stuff that actually melted the plexi together so it was bonded as one piece.

Thanks.

dlw
08-11-2008, 04:43 PM
Have a look at this site, lots of info on plastics http://www.theplasticshop.co.uk/
Look at the plastics index.

Stratous
08-12-2008, 05:52 AM
Good looking box. Was thinking about going that way with my cell that I am waiting on. I am still in the experimentation stage of making one that looks good and has real good output. I know that discs don't seem to put out much from some test results that have been run so far. So seems square plates are going to be the way to go. Does the place you get the poly from have a website by chance? Want to have a look at what they are asking and what not incase I can get some or find a place around here. 275 deg is nice high temp.

Also, what are you using to glue them together after your cuts? Due to temp and water/air-tight restrictions. I know a friend of mine showed me some stuff that actually melted the plexi together so it was bonded as one piece.

Thanks.

www.onlinemetals.com

smartHHO
08-12-2008, 01:21 PM
Thanks bud!

godoveryou
08-24-2008, 02:32 PM
I've been building cells for years out of Plexi, and used what would be considered very danderous levels of KOH in them... I've never had a problem.

GOY

yangga
09-14-2008, 02:14 PM
You would be correct, but the test was done with pure NaOH. The Lexan was left submerged in the NaOH for 48 hours. So far none of the units I have built have shown any sign of damage by the NaOH. I would imagine its because it highly diluted by water.


Hi,
Good I found this, I would like to warn you about using lexan.

I've ordered my acrylic containers from
http://www.h2oreactor.com , and also asked this lexan containers, here's what I got.

48 hours testing is not sufficient.

"
Lexan is the wrong material for this,
There are sellers out there making lexan (or polycarbonate) containers for hho applications, obviously they dont know anything about this material, they haven't done any stress testing, and how it reacts with the catalyst (KOH/NaOH), with the combination of this chemical and heat, it will crack and craze, it doesn't happen in few days, but it'll show stress in about a month or so, I can send you photos of how it looks, but if you look at youtube.com and search for bornman88 you'll see how it is"

yangga
09-14-2008, 02:21 PM
And here is the video from bornman88:

the lexan part is in the middle of the video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_MNP-RjVaw

Stevo
09-14-2008, 11:03 PM
And here is the video from bornman88:

the lexan part is in the middle of the video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_MNP-RjVaw

This video makes plenty of sense and I guess if someone decides to shield their cell with polycarbonate, use NaOH or KOH in higher concentration then this might be a real issue. The design of the cell in the video is one in which the plates have 4 sides touching polycarbonate and from looking at his other videos he seems to like extremely high electrolyte concentrations (like 5:1) as mentioned here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3MJIomGAxQ and I quote: "The water:lye by weight is 5:1". Wouldn't that make it approximately a 20% solution? He also mentioned that same cell's spec as: "250 l/hr at 50 Amp". :eek: Wow, seems like a lot of current and a lot of NaOH. Of course his polycarbonate will take a dump. :rolleyes: So now it's back to basically what Stratous said:


You would be correct, but the test was done with pure NaOH. The Lexan was left submerged in the NaOH for 48 hours. So far none of the units I have built have shown any sign of damage by the NaOH. I would imagine its because it highly diluted by water.

The approx 800:1 water to electrolyte concentrations that we use here, heck even Smith03Jetta's much higher concentration at approx 3.5 tsp/gal or 230:1 water to electrolyte isn't even a .5% solution. Most chemical resistance data concerning polycarbonate that I have seen starts with >= 1% solution.

yangga
09-14-2008, 11:17 PM
It's all up to you...

I myself dont find any reason why I have to stick with polycarb, many people already reported having issues with it, the info I attached is from a vendor who been doing acrylics containers for hho, and have done testing. Join other forums and ask, you'll hear different experiences.

This is america anyways, you can do whatever you want.
:)

Oh and by the way, Ideal dilution is 28%, this is what serious hho builders follows. This makes the water fully conductive and to avoid any resistance in the catalyst and minimize heat build-up, then you control the current draw by using a pwm.

Stevo
09-15-2008, 08:20 AM
Oh and by the way, Ideal dilution is 28%, this is what serious hho builders follows. This makes the water fully conductive and to avoid any resistance in the catalyst and minimize heat build-up, then you control the current draw by using a pwm.

Oh, okay. So I guess the problem is that we are not serious enough. I got ya. Oh and if you don't mind... please explain how adding more metallic base substance like sodium hydroxide actually "minimizes" heat build-up. If you disregard the chemical resistance tests (like anyone who uses polycarbonate in a 28% solution is doing), then you deserve what you get. I've searched for polycarbonate issues all over the web and found very mixed and misleading results, so I will go with the facts instead. I can tell you "you are right" if it makes you feel better.

yangga
09-15-2008, 08:42 AM
Less catalyst restricts current flow, and if you understand electronics, you'll know what happen if there is resistance. No need explaning as I think you are smarter than anybody else, and doesn't want any information.

You dont believe it?

Talk to Bob Boyce! he'll explain it to you. And tell him that the 28% maximum dilution he is recommending is fiction... Go to panacea univesity website whos doing research in hho and has a good relationship with people who are serious in this area, like Ravi, Lawton, ZFF, Smack, Lary Jarboe, Boyce. Look for Ash, who is managing the university, he will tell you the same, probably you dont know this people and not following what their recommendations, and you are not on track.

If you can prove that they are wrong, we will wait for you at next Jarboes Mill' event, where hho builders (with their generators) go to twice a year to share their information. You can also ask your polycarb question there if you wanted to.

They've done this ahead of you, and you just started, but you can always feel smarter than them if it makes you feel better, and go with your own (proven?) facts.


Oh, okay. So I guess the problem is that we are not serious enough. I got ya. Oh and if you don't mind... please explain how adding more metallic base substance like sodium hydroxide actually "minimizes" heat build-up. If you disregard the chemical resistance tests (like anyone who uses polycarbonate in a 28% solution is doing), then you deserve what you get. I've searched for polycarbonate issues all over the web and found very mixed and misleading results, so I will go with the facts instead. I can tell you "you are right" if it makes you feel better.

Stevo
09-15-2008, 01:51 PM
Bah, this is ridiculous... Noob. :rolleyes:

Sorry, Stratous for hijacking the thread. Please tell us more about your polycarbonate generators if you have more.

yangga
09-15-2008, 02:53 PM
What's wrong Stevo???. You shocked that a noob know this info?

I might be a noob here, and dont treat all the noob here as they dont know anything. Obviously this is how you rank people around here, and you are having a hard time to swallow it, that a noob like me knows it, and not you. I'm a noob, ok fine, but that doesn't give you the right to push me around.

Let me tell you something, this not the only hho forum that exist, there are much better ones that you obviously dont know about.

If you think you have something to prove about this technology? go to Jarboes and do it there.

End of story!



Bah, this is ridiculous... Noob. :rolleyes:

Sorry, Stratous for hijacking the thread. Please tell us more about your polycarbonate generators if you have more.