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daveczrn
07-11-2008, 06:10 AM
i am seeing a few diffrent designs that dont require any type of additive(lye, baking soda, ect.) What do you think these other designs are doing?

is it a closer plate design? special plate material?

I was thinking if i could pull off the plate design that is really close i won't need the any additive to allow the water to conduct electricity, as well i think that it will be more efficent because there are no additives.

I understand the bubbles will want to stick to both plates but i believe if i use a type of water circulation where i can push the water between teh plates physically push the bubbles out of the plates.

anyone have any sugestions or recomendations?

dennis13030
07-11-2008, 06:39 AM
I like the idea of no additives. I also like the idea to use almost any type of water except pure(distilled).

A normal config. is

+NNN-NNN+

you may have to go with

+N-N+

instead. I don't know.

daveczrn
07-11-2008, 07:23 AM
I;m not sure about not using distilled water. sounds like there will be buildup of impurities on the plates. Maybe ill put something together this weekend and see what i can come up with.

I have been a machinist for 15 years. being able to put the plates a few thougsands of an inch apart should not be a problem.

where can i find a cheap fuel pump that i can use to push the water?

dennis13030
07-11-2008, 07:36 AM
How about an aquarium pump?

daveczrn
07-11-2008, 08:02 AM
How about an aquarium pump?

because to my knowledge all aquarium pumps are AC voltage. without running a inverter or just using it as a bench test model it won't work in an automotive situation.

I do have another question though. i've read a few times that we only need about 1.5v (2vdc to be safe) to creat HHO. Running our systems at 12v is mostlikely creating more heat correct? running the system down at the 2v would be better?

ruel
07-11-2008, 08:08 AM
i am seeing a few diffrent designs that dont require any type of additive(lye, baking soda, ect.) What do you think these other designs are doing?

is it a closer plate design? special plate material?

I was thinking if i could pull off the plate design that is really close i won't need the any additive to allow the water to conduct electricity, as well i think that it will be more efficent because there are no additives.

I understand the bubbles will want to stick to both plates but i believe if i use a type of water circulation where i can push the water between teh plates physically push the bubbles out of the plates.

anyone have any sugestions or recomendations?


I am a new member in this forum but I have read many ideas from other hobs and hav tried it ,there is one is saying that it will work with no additives but when i tried iit i got only minmal production. the gap between plates he mentioned was 1mm, but i was able to do is up to 2mm only. may be it will work if i can work with the required gap.

thebargew
07-11-2008, 01:08 PM
I do have another question though. i've read a few times that we only need about 1.5v (2vdc to be safe) to creat HHO. Running our systems at 12v is mostlikely creating more heat correct? running the system down at the 2v would be better?

This concept is still new to me but the way it works is spreading the 12v through a series off N plates so that it equals to 2v each. scan through the other threads it will make total sense.
The balance of hho output and amp draw is the whole trick.

No additives would be awesome. the question is how much hho volume do you need for your application? If you are trying to get a huge volume in a short time, it would be hard. If you want to make enough to keep your vehicle running with less gas for a long duration without overheating, it is more likely.
Once you get to a certain level of HHO output your vehicle gas fuel system will only drop so much.
I have been planning out a design to actually incorporate the hho as a functioning interactive system rather than a static output.

Smith03Jetta
07-11-2008, 01:49 PM
I've got an idea that somebody might want to try. Get some stainless steel screen and some outdoor furniture woven material (Plastic) or some other porous insulating material. Sandwich the lawn furniture material between the two sheets of stainless screen. One hooked up to pos, the other neg. You can bend and re-shape the finished layers if you want to. You may also want to sew the finished product together with teflon thread in a heavy duty sewing machine.

That will get the two screens really close together, yet allow water to pass through. Bubbles can escape rather easily through the screen. I have some of the plastic woven material and the ability to sew it but I do not have any stainless steel screen. The material can probably be found in the kitchen utensil industry.

Stratous
07-11-2008, 01:55 PM
I have 200 1/32" nylon washers that I will try this weekend. I am not certain that it is possible to generate HHO with distilled water as its not conductive. At least its not suppsed to be.

dennis13030
07-11-2008, 02:03 PM
because to my knowledge all aquarium pumps are AC voltage. without running a inverter or just using it as a bench test model it won't work in an automotive situation.

I do have another question though. i've read a few times that we only need about 1.5v (2vdc to be safe) to creat HHO. Running our systems at 12v is mostlikely creating more heat correct? running the system down at the 2v would be better?

Yea, you are right about the aquarium pump(my bad).

Just add a few neutral plates between the anode and cathode to create more cells. Like this

+NNN-


Another common config is this

+NNN-NNN+

The neutral plates do help. The count varies a little depending on the designer's desire.

timetowinarace
07-11-2008, 05:01 PM
I have been using my well water with no additive. My opinion, those that are doing this are not using distilled water. I get 30amps through my water but it is far from pure. I havn't gotten around to finding out whats in it.

1/8" or 3mm is supposed to be optimum spacing. Closer if using a open bath design to discourage unwanted current flow around plates.

daveczrn
07-11-2008, 05:34 PM
I'm guessing the wihtout it being disstilled water it will be less restrictive and able to have the plate spacing further apart and still pull the same amps as if it were to be distilled water. Am i correct?

dennis13030
07-11-2008, 05:47 PM
Pure water(distilled) is highly resistive. Most other types of water are less resistive.

It would be nice not use any chemicals in the electrolyte and be able to use ANY type of water too. Some day............

Boltazar
07-12-2008, 04:16 AM
I'm still reading all the web sites after googleing HHO and found this today

Pete

hho gas generators
Safety should be the most important aspect of all hho gas generators and their installations. hho gas is very flammable and can cause serious injury, if it is not respected. Here are some things to keep in mind: this gas should not be stored; bubble the hho gas through water before it is connected to the air intake; bubblers and the hho gas generators should have a pop off lid or a very large low pressure pop off port. Some electrolytes can be very corrosive and can cause serious injury and possible death if ingested. hho gas generators should not be connected directly to the battery; a fuse and a relay switch connected to a switched circuit is a must. The electric fuel pump circuit on newer cars adds an extra safety feature to your hho gas generators. If at all possible, keep hho gas generator's electrical connections well below the fluid levels to avoid a spark in the hho gas. And last, but not least, hho gas generators should not be installed in the passenger's compartment.

Quality components will greatly reduce the maintenance and ensure safe hho gas generator designs that will last a long time. Stainless steel works great for electrodes and electrical terminals. Size and shape are determined by the space available. hho gas generators should not be installed by the exhaust manifold. Plastic and acrylics work great also, provided temperatures in the hho gas generators are kept moderate. Distilled water gives you a good starting place [0 electrolytes]. The more electrolytes you add, the more amp draw and more hho gas; there is a balance needed here. Baking soda works great and is not caustic to work with. It maybe the best choice, at least until you have your hho gas generator's design perfected. Seven little hho gas generators in series are better than one big generator because it only requires 1.24 volts for electrolysis. Most engines are equipped with 13.8 volt charging systems [13.8 divided by 7]; this will be more gas and less heat .

Less heat means you can adjust the electrolytes and maybe the amp draw a little and get the most output for the input, and still avoid the boiling point. Steam cancels out the hho gas and hurts the engine's fuel economy. Volts are controlled by the number of cells; excess volts cause heat. Amps are controlled by the ratio of water to electrolyte; heat will increase the amp draw. Once you have the recipe worked out for your application, write it down so you can duplicate the solution.

jober
07-12-2008, 04:44 AM
Has anyone found a good company to buy a complete system from?
I saw these people but their price is a bit high.
http://www.hydroxycorp.com/shop/
Has anyone here used them?

Stratous
07-12-2008, 05:47 AM
most people in these forums are into planning and building their own design, or improving on someone elses. I have not heard of the company you linked too, but that doesn't mean much.

Edit: I have seen the alexis cell before, there is a youtube video of it in action. As far as how good they are, I dont honestly know.

s_barrett
07-12-2008, 03:39 PM
"I've got an idea that somebody might want to try. Get some stainless steel screen and some outdoor furniture woven material (Plastic) or some other porous insulating material. Sandwich the lawn furniture material between the two sheets of stainless screen. One hooked up to pos, the other neg. You can bend and re-shape the finished layers if you want to. You may also want to sew the finished product together with teflon thread in a heavy duty sewing machine.

That will get the two screens really close together, yet allow water to pass through. Bubbles can escape rather easily through the screen. I have some of the plastic woven material and the ability to sew it but I do not have any stainless steel screen. The material can probably be found in the kitchen utensil industry."
__________________
Mr. Smith




the flexibility of the material would also allow one to roll it into a jelly-roll configuration. i think it's a good idea

TeknikL
07-13-2008, 04:24 AM
That sounds like a good idea... if you rolled it up and stuck it in a PVC tube it would probably work well, and you'd need less electrolyte probably.

daveczrn
07-13-2008, 04:47 AM
I've got an idea that somebody might want to try. Get some stainless steel screen and some outdoor furniture woven material (Plastic) or some other porous insulating material. Sandwich the lawn furniture material between the two sheets of stainless screen. One hooked up to pos, the other neg. You can bend and re-shape the finished layers if you want to. You may also want to sew the finished product



I'm not so sure we would be able to easily remove the bubbles from the screen. as well the small wires i doubt will produce much HHO. not much surface area to it for production. and may not last long because it's not very thick and won't be able to carry a higher amp draw.

daveczrn
07-13-2008, 03:44 PM
found this video on youtube. My hope for a no additive HHO generator looks better. although the voltage is wrong with this.

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hhojoe
07-17-2008, 08:26 PM
You talking something like this (although the SS isn't 'screen')?:

Youtube video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEds4sqwttQ)

If so, I tried these units and the output is great with no additives but the SS is so thin that it disintegrates rather quickly.

daveczrn
07-17-2008, 09:01 PM
I'm having trouble believing that video. bubbles are forming in the bubbler cell before HHO is hitting the top of the generator jar.

dennis13030
07-17-2008, 09:09 PM
The tube inside the bubbler is full of the HHO already when the power is turned on. As soon as bubbles start forming on the plates, the water gets displaced and bubbles start flowing inside the bubbler.

daveczrn
07-17-2008, 10:36 PM
Ok.. so what i am not seeing is the water level rising correct? From all the other video's i have have seen there is a delay from when the bubbles start in the generator to when they start in the bubbler.

dennis13030
07-17-2008, 10:54 PM
You are correct. Also the tube inside the bubbler is already full of HHO. Normally, there is some water inside this tube that must pushed out by the incoming HHO.