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Zipster
05-05-2009, 02:38 AM
Hi there,

I'm trying to achieve the design of a generator for welding purposes. My goal is to reach 25LPM in brute force and then start from there.

I'm starting from the BBsmack Gen IV, under 26V rated at 9.1MMW. I like this unit so I think I can start from that and just make it bigger.

However I might be missing a few things in the calculation of the size. Here is the math, please let me know where it is incorrect.

Base data:
6x6" BBsmack 14N1
1050ml=48s
26v 5.6A (http://smacksboosters.110mb.com/BB_Smack.html)

That's about:
0.06*(1050/48)=1.3LPM

Therefore, if I add more electrolyte:
>> at 26V * 11.2A = 291.2W out 2.6LPM
>> at 26V * 22.4A = 582.4W out 5.2LPM

Now if I double the surface of the plates:

6x12" BBsmack 14N1

I will get: at 26V * 44.8A = 10.4LPM

..and then double the amount of plates:

6x12" BBsmack 14N2
>> 26V * 89.6A = 20.8LPM

..or triple:

6x12" BBsmack 14N3
>> 26V * 134.4A = 31.2LPM

What I'm aiming at is a 14N3 12" is that correct. Or shall I just make it a 48N1 will that still work?

Q-Hack!
05-05-2009, 12:47 PM
You will excuse me if I have trouble believing your test numbers; 9.1 MMW is way over Faraday efficiency. Even Smacks personal design isn't that high. There are several websites that explain what Faraday efficiency is, this is a good one: http://aquauto.com/blogs/nickstone/mmw-calculator

Now, to answer your question at the bottom... The reason you need the 14N3 at 26V is to ensure that you maintain the 2V per plate gap required for electrolyses. If you try the 48N1 setup you would need 96 volts.

Zipster
05-05-2009, 09:15 PM
Mate, if you knew a bit better about smack designs you would know that the Gen IV is 7.5mmw under 12v and about 9mmw under 24v. Watch that video on the page I posted please..

Use the data in your calculator and tell me your result.

Thanks you for your comment about dividing the voltage to 2v per plate, it makes great sense indeed!

Q-Hack!
05-05-2009, 11:16 PM
Mate, if you knew a bit better about smack designs you would know that the Gen IV is 7.5mmw under 12v and about 9mmw under 24v. Watch that video on the page I posted please..

Use the data in your calculator and tell me your result.

Thanks you for your comment about dividing the voltage to 2v per plate, it makes great sense indeed!

Yep, and the calculator tells you that it is over Faraday Efficiency. Something is amiss. As I see it there are two possibilities:
1) Faraday didn't have all the information to correctly calculate maximum efficiency.
2) Something is wrong with the way Smack ran his test. (though, nothing stands out in the video)

If you can reproduce Smack's numbers then perhaps there is something to his electromagnetic field theory. We may need to have somebody who has a good strong background in chemistry to take a look and give us an educated guess.

truckman1966
05-06-2009, 12:47 AM
Dude your calculations are way wrong. you were running a 6x6 plate setup, right? if you doubled it, you would have a 6x12. now if you quadrupled it, it would be 12x12. :)

Zipster
05-06-2009, 03:00 AM
Dude your calculations are way wrong. you were running a 6x6 plate setup, right? if you doubled it, you would have a 6x12. now if you quadrupled it, it would be 12x12. :)

Nice one! .... now back to primary school..

Numbers has been updated. Thank you truckman.

Now would you go ahead and tell me if you see anything else that would be wrong in these calculations. Do you know the max power per square inch I can play with?

Zipster
05-09-2009, 06:44 AM
Here are the diagrams I made today. I'm finally using the SID Cell for the outside features regarding I will have a lot of plates and this very design has bolts going through the plates and gaskets. It will provide more solidity. The inside part is an improved version of the BB Smack Gen IV, I've added a second refill port that will stand on the opposite end plate in order to feed more evenly regarding the amount of plates being important (up to between 50 and 60, I have to figure that out). I've expanded the 6x6 to a 6x12 to end up with more plate surface. The final shape of the cell will be a flat rectangle in a way I can sit the tank/ bubbler on top as the cell will have to fit within a cradle.

Zipster
05-09-2009, 06:46 AM
And here are my side plates.