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ruel
07-14-2008, 04:25 AM
anybody on the group able to run a motorcycle on 100% HHO?

i want to know how much gas producion lpm need for 660cc cab?

Stratous
07-14-2008, 07:30 AM
I dont believe anyone in here has even come close to being able to run a vehicle completely off Hydrogen. It is not possible in theory to use electrolysis as the only means of fuel for a vehicle.

daveczrn
07-14-2008, 11:24 AM
I stole this from the Tero_cell PDF we have floating around the board here. I doubt you could run it completly off of HHO, Only chance would be that you are only using the bike once a week. if you produced HHO during the week and compressed it into a cylinder, then mounted the bottle of compressed HHO on the back of the bike you might be able to do it.


Idling a small engine (e.g. 5hp) would require 500-1000 LPH (liters per hour), while idling a car engine would probably consume about 3000LPH of HHO. Driving down the highway would probably consume 20000-30000 LPH of HHO.

LinChiek
07-30-2008, 06:32 AM
I stole this from the Tero_cell PDF we have floating around the board here. I doubt you could run it completly off of HHO, Only chance would be that you are only using the bike once a week. if you produced HHO during the week and compressed it into a cylinder, then mounted the bottle of compressed HHO on the back of the bike you might be able to do it.


Idling a small engine (e.g. 5hp) would require 500-1000 LPH (liters per hour), while idling a car engine would probably consume about 3000LPH of HHO. Driving down the highway would probably consume 20000-30000 LPH of HHO.
hi! i'm new here........

DO NOT compress HHO...... xtremely dangerous...! :eek:

Omega
07-30-2008, 02:24 PM
hi! i'm new here........

DO NOT compress HHO...... xtremely dangerous...! :eek:

+1 Compressed HHO is just a little less dangerous than an h-bomb. :D (Really!!)

kajreklaw
07-30-2008, 10:14 PM
I dont believe anyone in here has even come close to being able to run a vehicle completely off Hydrogen. It is not possible in theory to use electrolysis as the only means of fuel for a vehicle.

it is possible - however impractical..

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=roy+mcalister+and+steven+harr is&search_type=&aq=2&oq=roy+mc

i bought this video and was amazed at how easy he could add hydrogen to the fuel... his partner explained through math (lots of it) that HHO powering an I.C.E. would take several times more the energy than you could produce from a hho generator.. HOWEVER he DID NOT say it was impossible, just impractical...I still believe it can be done, i'm not trying for it right now, just better mpg to not be forced to fill up as often!

clarence1984
08-01-2008, 04:20 PM
please compress the hho make it usuable. I mean come on the next person i hear say don't compress hho i'm going to burn them into the ground on this forum. I've been working with hho for years now and you can compress it up for 400 psi ~ before it blows up. Give me a break. For the bike i would recomend a minature 12volt diaphram pump and a local ace hardware for fittings have the pump suck out the hho and compress it to about 80 to 90 psi into a co2 canister mounted to the frame rail of the bike use a paintball regulator and regulate it way down and into the intake of the bike. Shut off the gasoline your o2 sensor on the bike will flood out the bike otherwise. Now plug the cell into the powersupply from your house fill your canister and turn the fuel on. A EFIE engine won't backfire the valves will stop that and the injector will stay shut if you unplug it. From my experimentation the best setup is to pipe the hho directly to the injector(s) then they will open and close as needed to ensure proper timing you may need to tweak the timing a smidge in the retard direction to get the engine to fire a little slower and allow the engine to keep up with the faster combustion. Just keep the pressure on your hho tank way down and it will be just like running on gasoline (with the regulator) You will need to experiment with the size of the co2 canister for the range of mileage you need on the bike before you have to plug in again.

clarence1984
08-01-2008, 05:03 PM
daveczrn

you are not correct on the lph rate of a 5hp engine. I have my own experimentation to show it doesn't take that much especially on idle. Think of it this way. If I took my little 5hp briggs with a 1 gallon gas tank and I steamed all that gasoline to a vapor (which i know isn't as dry as the hho there for not as efficient) bear with me here. It would = about 1746.9 feet cubed. so 28.3 liters in a cubic foot. times 1746.9 = 49437.27 liters per every 3 hours (the length my briggs will run on one gallon of gasoline at governed throttle 50%load) divide 49437.27 by 3 gives you 16479.09 liters per hour or 274.6515 liters cubed per minute. However now factor in the expansion, efficiency, and volatilness of hho (hydrogen and oxygen). we get 274.6515 divided by 3 as quoted by many people 91.5505 liters per minute of consumption however in my studies i've seen hho to be almost 18 times more volatile than hho with liptis testing and other expansion test equipment. 15.25 liters per minute to run the 5hp briggs at 50% load (enough to run a fairly good generator.) O.k so if i want to run this generator only on hho I'll need a hho resevoir tank. I would probably use a 8 gallon portable tank for air. 1 us gallon is 0.133680556 cubic feet. so in this example this empty tank will have 1.069444448 cubic feet of air inside at atomospheric pressure. If i pressurize this tank with hho to (and these are approximates hydrogen and oxygen compress more and less into a psi than regular air) so the equation goes like this psia would be at 80psig + 10 psi (heat expansion) so 90psia 1.069444448 cubic feet = 96.25000032 cubic feet of hho stored or 28.3 * 96.250000032 = 2723.875009056 liters of gas stored. I could run this generator/engine for ~ 2723.87 / 91.5505 = 46 minutes and 50% load under the standard alogorithm but under my testing 15.25 liters per minute neaded would mean you have 178.61 minutes of run time /60 2.97 hours of run time. So think about it. That's not to shabby for hho alos remember IT'S RENEWABLE AND ALMOST NO POLLUTION we can't beat that boys and girls

clarence1984
08-01-2008, 05:37 PM
so to fill this tank i appologize if these are not in the right forum but please feel free to move them to another.

If my diaphram pump is hooked with the input from my hho cell that is powered by my 1k wind turbines i sell and the output to my tank. I could fill this tank is how long?

The math would start with how much gas does my cell put out. Well my newest graphite cell puts out 8 mmw that's 8 milliliters cubed per millimeter squared of surface per watt/joule minute of energy consumed. So the wind blows at 25 mph here quite often. The turbine puts out 62.3 amps at 12 volt when the wind blows at 25mph that's 747.6 watts of power. Put into my cell that would make 747.6*8=5980.8 cubic milliliters of gas potential. The perfect graphite cell design for this would have 747.6 square mm of surface area of graphite plates to consume all the wattage perfectly. That's 5.9808 cubic liters of gas per minute with a potential storage of 2723.87 liters this would take 455.4 minutes to fill the tank. Or about 7 and a half hours. So the wind blows all night and you have multiple tanks or a large tank and you have alot of run time. This is a very useful tool. I'm not trying to promote my wind turbine but they are getting very inexpensive now at about 500 bucks per kw you can now build inexpensive and practical heating and electrical solutions.

clarence1984
08-01-2008, 05:52 PM
Now for my final post of the day. (if your head doesn't hurt yet from this math lesson lol)

A car engine consumes more gas than a generator of course. If we use the factor that 5hp 206cc consumes 15.25 liters per minute of gas and a small car engine is about 2000cc and 200hp (cobalt 2.0 ecotech) if your car engine was only as efficient as a cheapo briggs (which it is way more efficient) it would consume about 10 times more gas of 150.25 liters per minute of gas. These are just estimate of course people don't burn me for being a smidge off with the math here.
at half throttle the car does about 80mph (test drive) so for the 8 gallon tank compressed 2723.87 cubic liters /150.25 gives you 18.12 minutes at half throttle. If I fitted my car with the new carbon fiber air tanks which are custom at 50 gallon capacity now. 50/8 6.25 *2723.87 cubic liters will hold 17024.1875 cubic liters now. / by 150.25 = 113.30 minutes of engine run time at half throttle. So if you were a racer on the highway you could get 151 miles per fill up. Of course we don't go that fast so it can only go up from there. Guys stop talking about this and let's get it going. My company will be releasing home kits to fuel your car in this fashion and we will be looking at training certified mechanics to install and fit cars with these kits.

ridelong
08-01-2008, 06:07 PM
clarence1984,

HHO is explosive, that's why we use it as we make it, so there isn't much existing HHO if it does explode.

To compress it into a tank is insane. Surely you have seen the youtube accidental explosions at ambient pressure. Now multiply that times the tank volume times the pressure increase.

Bad. Real bad.

LinChiek
08-03-2008, 12:46 PM
+1 Compressed HHO is just a little less dangerous than an h-bomb. :D (Really!!)

:eek:



pls... do not compress the HHO..... there's already H2 and O2..... just add some heat, it will explode.....! :mad:

snapper1d
08-04-2008, 12:16 AM
I read about some home filling stations for H2 and I found some that were for hho.Most of them just said H2 though but they were compressing it to 300 psig.So it must be safe to 300psig or they would not be selling them.Some of them were selling for around $500 and others up to $2195.Some of them were solar.It also said 3 hours to fill up the tank.

clarence1984
08-04-2008, 01:38 PM
O.k on the compression thing I personally test all my theories and I did mention I was going to burn the next person that cut down the compression thing. h2-0 it's not h2 o2 you are wrong there it's one atom of oxygen and two atoms of hydrogen. Also hydroxy is compressible to 415psig before self detonation. In my testing the propane canister got to 380~psig before self detonation of the hydroxy gas. You people who say don't compress it's to dangerous are MORONS!!! this is ridiculous people no wonder you pay pay checks into your car thinking that the hho electrolyzers are the key to changing the world. So for the guy who owns the 660cc bike do you want me to build you a system to running your bike off pure hho I can do that for you however i'm located in alaska and that maybe a smidge difficult. Have anyone of you "don't compress hho" people here watched the science episodes months ago about a man who stores the hho into several large propane pigs in his back yard which are filled by a electrolyzer and solar panels for electricity? He filled his neon with the gas just compressed everyday. The only danger at all with the hho is tank rupture. The tank would need to be carbon, plastic composite, or fiberglass any metal may spark in a collision. Also us steel devised an rupture proof tank years ago that could take a full impact from a train and not break open. This is possible guys. This is why I don't pay for petroleum fuel at all now. Not for electricity, heat, or propulsion. For less than 5k this can be done including wind turbines. You'll spend 5k in one year with your home electricity, propulsion and heating.

snapper1d
08-04-2008, 01:49 PM
Well Clarence I am behind you.I remember seeing something about a guy doing that somewhere also.I guess I will have to just find that place that was selling the ones that made and compressed hho.It was one of them that was $2195 and took 3 hours to ifll a tank.They had pics and prices of them.It wasnt just an article that said they were selling and had that price thrown in there.

clarence1984
08-04-2008, 02:21 PM
yes awesome i'm ready for all the nation to switch to this method of exchanging cheap energy. I am planning on selling this system powered by my wind turbines so that when the wind blows it stores the energy in the form of compress hho and runs your home generator cars etc. It's so inexpensive to do that as wind turbines are about 5 cents a kwh instead of 18 like here in alaska or 22 in areas of california. Let's say we choose the windiest place in america to put up a massive wind farm (maybe even offshore) and pipe that cheap electricity into compressed or liquefied hho it's cheaper than batteries and easy to transport.
My new invention is a all in one process unit. Pour in water plug in your wind turbine and when the wind blows it makes liquid hho pretty simple.

clarence1984
08-04-2008, 04:34 PM
LinChiek you are giving people false and untrue information. Please don't post here unless it's questions as it's clear you do not know anything about the physics of hho. It's people like you who are hurting the production of hho units. I searched youtube for over an hour looking for someone pressure testing hho. I couldn't find one single video of someone pressurizing a container and it exploding on it's own without a spark or flame. Please find me one.

Also who is the admin of this site i'd like to get moved up from newbie as I clearly have more helpful information than almost anyone here as i've studied this hho had live interviews with professors from berkely, harvard, sanford, georgia tech, michigan tech, and devry on the hho. I have hundreds of letters from many of these professors and institutes about there standing on the education system and what hho understanding can do for us all.

dennyk159
08-04-2008, 06:41 PM
Clarence1984
You have worked with HHO for quite some time. Arguing isn't going to help the HHO cause. We just need to be educated about it. It's obvious from reading this forum it works as a gasoline enchancement, but it appears you have gone beyond that. I would like to know more about your work with it. Do you have a website that would help us better understand what you have done with it? Thanks for your input here. It has been quite enlightening for me.

clarence1984
08-04-2008, 07:11 PM
i do not have my website complete just got it up last week but it's www.beawindhog.com and will have it's own hho forum for serious hho cell engineers and practical use engineers only. I will allow 3 non design conversing people to sign up per day. But the restrictions will be income level as if you make less than 25,000 a year there is no way you can afford to live, feed your family, and build a system of enough significance to provide a beneficial push in the way of hho. If you are retired this will not apply. Educational level will require a minimum of 2 years of college. I am tired of the non educated false information being spread. I should have the forum up by tomorrow. Also I will link to hhoforums.com because I want to direct the common folk here as this is a site built just for that purpose. My complete wind to liquid hho system will be available by first quarter of 2009 for under 3000 dollars and will provide enough hho to power 1 vehicle and a household of 2 adults and 2 children and 2500 square feet or less of space. All the specs and such can be viewed in 3 weeks when the prototype is released.

webeopelas
08-05-2008, 08:22 AM
Don't let us common people hold you back. Amazing price jump already for your system. Your website says about $1800 for a system.

snapper1d
08-05-2008, 09:58 AM
What a lot of people dont understand about compressing gases is that when you compress a gas heat builds up.Say a cubic foot of gas is compressed into a cubic inch all that heat in it is compressed into that cubic inch also.Take this as an example.That cubic foot of gas has the temperature of 72 degrees.Now you compress it down to 1/2 cubic foot of gas the temperature is 150 gegrees and down to one cubic inch it is 300 degrees.Thats just an example and is not the actual temperatures.If that was gasoline or diesel it would have detonated.If you compress it slow and cool it while you are doing it to keep the heat out it would not detonate at all.It is the heat build up that will detonate it.You have to cool the gases while you are compressing them to keep them from detonation.If you look at the schematics of a hydrogen H2 filling station you will see that they have a chiller in them to cool the gas while compressing it so it does not detonate on you.

clarence1984
08-05-2008, 01:27 PM
wow snapper thank you for some truth here. I did not give the specifics on doing this all. However any affordable diaphragm pump would do this. As they pump very slowly up to 90 psi. The heat would double in a perfect environment but if you take actual results like i have done for these folks the heat would be less than self detonation temperature which according to wiki on oxyhydrogen "autoignition occurs at about 570 °C (1065 °F)"
alot of misunderstanding with hho.
So if you solder two copper tubes together and plumb it into a freeby apartment fridge pump you can keep the hho very cool so you can up the pressure on it.

snapper1d
08-05-2008, 02:26 PM
The colder it is the easier and better it would be to compress.Just like the condenser on an air conditioner.Hot gas goes thru it to be cooled and pressurized to condense the freon back to a liquid state before going to the evaporator.Then when it is released into the evaparator you get the cold from it.The condenser has air blown thru it to drive out the heat. So using your hho line as a condenser and running it thru a fridge would really drive out the heat.I see you did your homework on the auto ignition temp.I didnt think it was that high but I knew it was a lot higher than people think.The people who are playing with hho that have explosions ard not being careful with it.This stuff is extremely dangerous in quantity and needs the proper equipment to work with it and also traning.

clarence1984
08-05-2008, 02:36 PM
knowledge is key to oxyhydrogen (hho) but yes it can be dealt with in bulk just like propane. We deal with it everyday or hydrogen or many other extremely flammable gasses people deal with everyday. We all come in contact with these sometime in our lives all we need is good understanding and well built safety features. Even though there will always be some moron somewhere smoking with leaky fittings on his compressed hho tank. All I can say about that thank you higher power for removing this air breather from this world. lol j/k for anyone who has been injured by hho. My first experiments with this back in hs years ago my buddy at the time lit the foam we had ontop of a bucket of soapy water we used as the water. I almost lost my hearing since that day i've been figuring out all the solutions to this hho craze. It's the most useful and easy to create fuel.
Anyone who catches this thread email me if you are interested in having a whole system powered by wind to fuel your cars and home? My company is taking a poll to find out who many people are ready for our upcoming products so that we can gauge a release date.

timetowinarace
08-05-2008, 03:21 PM
Clarence,

While you seem well informed and I don't dispute anything you've said it might be a good idea to keep in mind this is a DIY type forum. The majority here are not engineers or scientists and from your previous posts you prefer that companionship. It is not completely correct that hho cannot be compressed. That has been established. I do question the wisdom of your being very adament about the safety of doing so. Remember, DIY? The lay person should not be led to believe it is a safe thing to do without precaution. It appears to me your here to market a product more than help the DYI crowd with your 18 posts.

I personally am not afraid to compress hho, but believe I would seperate the gasses and only store hydrogen if I was inclined to go in that direction. Many advantages to that.

clarence1984
08-05-2008, 04:06 PM
don't get me wrong here
I'm not selling an item simply wondering if people are looking to create this product i've given all the information about compressing hho. If you compressed hho in a one second increment to 15psi from a starting temperature of 77 degrees the hho would ignite. Such as compression in a car or diesel. We want this type of compression. But how dare you tell me compression is so dangerous until you have actually done it yourself. Have you actually had it explode from compressing it? If so do you have scientific documentation to prove it was from compressing and not a spark or open source flame. But this forum is very slow for as many people that have emailed me. This should be more like a classroom debate with an instructor somewhere who has a great deal of knowledge. Everyone is just sitting around building things that fail or don't work. This is not facilitation. Also I have mentioned that I understand this is a common folk forum i have written that in the past messages. Please read them carefully. I gave the math behind everything. If you are expecting over unity it's impossible. You can't break the laws of faraday. No one can. There is always a small void in the production of hho. So if the smartest people in the world in a think tank can't solve the over unity idea with hho electrolyzers what makes you think this forum will solve it without the help from college educated people. What is the whole idea of this website? Or what is it really supposed to do. So far all I have seen is a bunch of people who know nothing swapping ideas that don't work and advertising websites were they bought stuff that doesn't work and never replying afterwards. I have tried over 100 sites with federal funding and found not even one of them has provided over 5 percent of improvement on the basis of gasoline/octane savings in a ice. Send a letter to berkely's science department asking them if its possible they'll tell you the best ever achieved is 8 percent and that was in a lab under perfect conditions. So all these people claiming 50 percent improvements are liars. This type of information should be banned from here. I gave out my website address but i don't have any info about any of what i have talked about posted on there i'm not trying to sell anything the only reason i posted it at all is because i got asked. But the common folk here need to know there is easy ways of compressing hho and using it for the common folk. People like you tell people not to and have no evidence that there is actually a problem. You heard it through " the grape vine" but have you actually wiki'd any of this information you have provided?

I'm probably going to get banned after this post so farewell all. If you want to know how to make a sustainable system for the common folk come to my site www.beawindhog.com or catch me on overunity.com as clarence1984

1973dodger
08-05-2008, 06:58 PM
clarence1984,

Finally, someone who wants to think out of the box, and does'nt start a thread with "what if" and instead starts with an experiment to provide real numbers. Sure every new thought starts with "what if", but the problem is most of time, it never gets off the drawing table. Man, I have so many questions.

1- Could the electrolosis take place inside of a pressurized container. From what i have witnessed, being in the housing industry for 30 years, the power of water, and perhaps electrolsis in water, can move a house.
2- If not, is a vaccuum pump used to take the hho and pressurize it in a storage tank.
3- How do the figures you use translate in liters/ minute, in what is needed to keep up with the hydrogen demand.
4- Don't be too much of an elitest, when it comes to education. Most of us who have lived for awhile, realize the real education comes after you get out of school. The problem with rumor and assumption, it is not exclusive to the uneducated. Many have been a little too trusting of the information out there concerning hho and electrlosis. As i have said many times on this forum, research has it's place, but real experimentation is the key.
5- What in your opinion is a safe pressure to work without going right up to the brink. Also what saftey precautions could be implemented such as saftey relief valves and so on.
6- I have read some posts on another forum from a man known as Alaska Star who has some inovative ideas. There must be something in the water up there. If I were'nt so close to heaven as I am here in the hills of East Tn., I would certainly consider Alaska a great place to live.
7- I assume the reason you are going with graphite cells are because of current flow and less resistence. Is your production better per amp?
8- I assume from your earlier post your are storing hho, not just hydrogen. Have you given any thought seperating it magnetically, such as have one outlet hooked up to a positive charge and one outlet hooked to a negative charge coming out of your hho generator. One could simply use a brass hose barb for each gas outlet, one for oxygen and one for hydrogen, hooked to their respective charges. Perhaps you may not get pure hydrogen this way, but my bet is you may get more bang for your cubic foot of storage, thus longer distance between fill-ups.

I'll let that be all the questions for now and let someone else chime in here. Keep up the good work.

1973dodger

clarence1984
08-05-2008, 07:25 PM
I would love to type more but i'm on my wife's laptop at the moment my favorite clevo laptop just died (alienware) buss processor shorted out for no apparent reason and it's under warranty but the tech just told me the fan/heatsink had come disconnected from the motherboard because i dropped it i'm like this never leaves my work desk i just got it because i had the opportunity to use it mobile if i needed to. So im out 1900 dollars. Serves me right for paying that much for a laptop i guess. Should have just bought a dell for 300 bucks from the site lol.. I had to vent sorry everyone!

O.k as for your questions dodger i'll answer them as you listed them

1. The pressurized container idea would not work hho production drastically declines as you increase container pressure.
2. A diaphragm pump (ebay cheapy) would work as long as it has vacuum on one side and compression on the other. These work nicely in the 30 to 50 dollar range used.
3. I can't give you exact figures. Early in this thread I gave alot of math about how to figure out how much gas you need for an engine and such. It all depends on what you want to do with the oxyhydrogen.
4. I agree on you. I believe you need some decent math education here to make this whole thing easier on you. Algebra 1 in hs probably won't be enough here. I would say take some pre calc or some beginner physics classes they are cheap and will give you loads of understanding as to what type of algorithms to use and why. There are reasons behind the math. Good old elbow grease teaches us alot too however good math makes the elbow grease alot less work. I've been out of college for many years now and have actually worked with oxyhydrogen since my high school days.
5. O.k this is the real money maker here. I would say 15 psi would be a safe operating pressure without any faults. You would have to be able to pump up to that in less than .015 seconds to achieve combustion so even with the fastest pump in a conventional cost scheme you couldn't do that without mixing in more air and therefore making the oxyhydrogen less combustible and cooling it down more. I would say the easiest would be to buy a pic programmer for usb off ebay and program an pic to monitor pressure and inside tank temperature which sounds complex but pic programming for dummies is out now and one nights read should let you program the chips and hook it all up. A safety pressure release may be a bad option as they are usually brass and can make a micro spark or the bottle necking of the hho through the opening may cause unnecessary heat which we dont' want nor do we want this filling up a garage were you have a spark anywhere in the room bad news lol. For safety a pressure shut off like a air compressor type relay would be great they are very fail safe. A easy pressure sensor (off ebay like an oil pressure sensor and such) would work great they are more solid state and use a ssr or solid state relay all this is cheap to keep any actions of sparks down to a min. That way all this can be compact. most of the diaphragm pumps i've looked at are induction too so no sparks there. These are all safety precautions I know they sound like overkill but look at propane all this is done too.
6. I love it here in alaska. The weather is nice mid 70's during the summer and winters are mild in my part of alaska about 30 degree or so throughout the winter. But we get about 2000 dollars per person per year from dividends here to blow so people seek out money making opportunity's more.
7. I got 8mmw you do the math on that zero fossil fuel on youtube only gets just under 6 with stainless 316 totally custom cell with a pretty good pwm circuit.
8. I have tried this believe it or not actually i tried using neodymium magnets and pulsing a voltage capable of corona on the magnets without making a spark the amount of separation just took too much energy for the little bit i got. Also hho is so much more powerful as it is all you need in one gas. Unlike hydrogen separately or oxygen separately. The energy unit of more too. But here is a quick fix for all those needing better gas mileage now. Just buy a oxygen concentrator and pipe it into your intake. There you go a cleaner hotter burn.

1973dodger
08-06-2008, 01:21 PM
Clarence1984,

My thoughts concerning a oxygen concentrator. Oxygen, while it is a critical element in the combustion process, it is also public enemy #1 of metals(as well as heat), whether in your electrolosizer or your engine, hence oxydation.

Yor body, for instance must have oxygen to sustain life, yet it has to make anti-oxydents to combat the the corrosive effects of oxygen.

My concern would be, there is a point when the AFR is at it's optimum level (most experts say; 14.7-1), there are other factors to consider other than optimum fuel burn, such as engine wear.

1973dodger

clarence1984
08-07-2008, 03:18 AM
hey if you want to be more technical with this come over to my forum just goto the bottom of beawindhog.com sign up and we can discuss this more in detail as the administrators of this site have contacted me and told me to not talk about compressing hho or any of that here also not to be so technical as this is for common folk who won't be able to understand the math that i have posted.