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Stratous
05-26-2008, 03:01 AM
Ok, I have installed an HHO generator into my 06 2500 ram with the 5.9 Cummins motor. Currently I have the hose routed into my air filter box. Is there a better place to inject the HHO on the Cummins motor? Should it be pre or post turbo? Thanks

Stratous
05-26-2008, 06:07 AM
Here are some photos of my installed generator. It is currently producing 2.25 lpm. I will post more tomorrow to show the unit in operation.
http://z.hubpages.com/u/339165_f520.jpg http://z.hubpages.com/u/339164_f520.jpg http://z.hubpages.com/u/339161_f520.jpg

Ronjinsan
05-28-2008, 05:22 AM
Whats in the box Stratous.....come on open it and show us! 8-)

Stratous
05-28-2008, 04:01 PM
Whats in the box Stratous.....come on open it and show us! 8-)

Ok, I will show everyone shortly.

Stratous
05-29-2008, 02:42 AM
Ok, as I promised here are the pictures of the inside of my unit. The amperage draw is between 25 and 30 amps. Probably about 28, its slightly high. As you can see the unit produces well. The plate configuration is +--+ on all 4 cells. The cells are wired in parallel pairs. Each pair is wired in series so that the voltage is split between the two pairs. Each receives about 7 volts. I have found that lower voltage results in less heat. It seems to make more difference than low amperage. I certainly was hoping for better MPG gains though. My first fill-up yielded a gain of 4mpg, but I am not sure how many miles i actually drove with the device still operating. When I checked the water level today, I found that it was empty. My cooling radiator had sprung a leak at some point and totally drained all of my electrolyte. At any rate, I dont think I need the radiator, I drove for 30 minutes tonight after repairing and refilling the unit. The electrolyte didnt get hot at about 25 amps.

Stratous
05-29-2008, 03:10 AM
Still I wonder if I have placed the injection hose in the best place. I have it fed right into the air cleaner box. I noticed there seems to be a sensor just past the intake box, should I feed the hose past that sensor? Keep in mind I am driving a 2006 dodge w/ cummins 5.9 diesel. I have attached photos as I am not entirely sure what the device is attached to the intake tube. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Ronjinsan
05-29-2008, 04:41 AM
Very nicely done unit Stratous....puts mine to shame, but I'm working on it! My wife has a Citroen Picasso 2ltr diesel which I am makeing a cell for at the moment. I suspect that the device in your intake is probably an airflow metering unit of some kind. I will probably have the same type of thing in the Citroen. If so I would be tempted to put my HHO in after the device, in other words closest to the engine side to try it out first. Hey I may be completely out of line here......any suggestions from other sources would be most appreciated. What is your container, looks like an armoured electrical box, am I right? If so thats a good idea. Does it seal well? All the best.;)

Stratous
05-29-2008, 10:48 AM
It is an eletrical box I picked up at lowes for $22. Its made by Cantex, I believe there are other brands out there that are just as good. It has a water tight seal around the lid that so far seems to seal very good. I suppose i could put a pressure gauge inline to see if it holds pressure. I know it holds some pressure as I have held my finger over the hho exit port, but I have no idea how much pressure. I am pretty happy with the box, supposedly it is rated for pretty high temperatures as well. Thanks for the accolades on my rig.:D

Ronjinsan
05-30-2008, 05:45 AM
I am going to spend this weekend with my new plates that arrived yesterday. They are 316 SS 120 x 75 x .9. I have some new ideas on cell configuration I want to try out, but I am going down to our local electrical store to look at those boxes. I have been working with transparent containers up to now so that I could see whats going on inside. but I suppose once you are confident that your cell works properly and the mixture is good, there is no reason to "see" it any more. The advantage of living in a country (South Africa) where the cars are mostly from Japan and Europe is that our engine sizes are so much smaller than yours and dont need so much HHO to be useful! Wait until you start paying the same as us for petrol or even worse diesel!!! :( Keep it up and all the best ;)

Stratous
05-30-2008, 07:37 AM
I dont know how much you pay for fuel, but its quite high enough here...lol
Currently diesel is USD $4.70 per gallon, or about $1.74 per liter. Between my wife and I we drive about 100 miles or 161KM per day. I usually drive the most because I take our daugher to and from work as well as myself.

Stratous
05-30-2008, 04:26 PM
Ok, I ran into a snag. My little radiator didnt like the caustic soda and sorta leaked all my fluid out... I should have known this would happen. No biggie right? I took the radiator out of line thinking that all would be well. I was pulling 30 amps at the time. So today, I get home and notice that my lid was not sealing anymore. Well, I took some solid steel bar and beefed up the lid so that it would be stiff and solid. I wil add some pictures for anyone who decides to use the same style box I used. It seals wonderfully now and I dont think it will ever warp again.

gasmakr
05-30-2008, 04:30 PM
Still I wonder if I have placed the injection hose in the best place. I have it fed right into the air cleaner box. I noticed there seems to be a sensor just past the intake box, should I feed the hose past that sensor? Keep in mind I am driving a 2006 dodge w/ cummins 5.9 diesel I am not entirely sure what the device is attached to the intake tube. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

that sensor is the mass air sensor it measures air flow, temp etc. i'm guessing it's best to inject it after this sensor so that the computer dosen't read the extra flow. the more air flow the computer the sees the more fuel it will supply to compensate. Are you useing any devices for fuel control on your computer? EFIE, o2 enhancer or sutch?:)

Stratous
05-30-2008, 04:32 PM
No, I have added nothint to the truck as far as engine goes. Its still under warranty. I made the HHO system to be easly removed just incase...lol

Ronjinsan
06-03-2008, 05:22 AM
OK Stratous I concede! You are mostly right. I did the conversions this morning and believe it or not you are paying almost the same as us for fuel.(not including the 30c increase tomorrow night!) It appears that a fluid American gallon is 3.785 litres so if you convert South African Rands at 7.728 Rands to a US dollar, you end up paying R9.59 to a litre! We are payin R9.29 at the moment....Wow, now I really feel sorry for you guys! But then again I do blame this lot on your illustrious president and his Daddy! I think you need Hillary Clinton, maybe she can sort things out. Seems to me that the best rulers and presidents or prime ministers have always been women! LOL All the best!

Stratous
06-03-2008, 09:45 PM
I dont like the idea of becoming a socialist style government.

gasmakr
06-03-2008, 09:51 PM
good thing obama is locking up the nomination..........I think:confused:

Stratous
06-03-2008, 10:43 PM
No personally I think he is much worse. At least we know clinton is a crook. Obama is an unknown for the most part. He is known to associate with some shady people though and his wife is a racist. But, enough politics.

Ronjinsan
06-04-2008, 01:33 AM
:D:D:D Thats classic!

Stratous
06-04-2008, 10:25 PM
Ok, after my little radiator went bye bye, I ran the unit for a few days w/o any cooling. I didnt have any problems except in my own mind, I kept worrying that it was over heating. I decided that the only way to ensure that it wasnt going to over heat was to make another cooler. In the following pictures, you will see what I did. I used the flexible clear PVC tubing to form a cool down line. It seems to be working well.

hho_underground
06-25-2008, 04:10 PM
Hey Stratous,

Just curious, how does the water circulate?

Thanks,
-M

porkchop
06-25-2008, 05:04 PM
Perhaps you could run a piece of flexible duct to catch clean air from under/or in front of your truck, if there was room. I was thinking of doing that if mine overheats. I don't know if it would work well enough, but it seems like if it did, it would be an easy and inexpensive solution. Just a thought.

Stratous
06-25-2008, 06:10 PM
I use a small water pump to circulate the water through the clear hose, I realize that the hose isnt a great conductor of heat, but it seems to work pretty well. The pump i have has a stainless steel housing which i purchased at harbor frieght, I also purchased a DC motor controller to slow the pump down. Its a pretty powerful little pump @350 gallons per hour and only cost $27. I dont leave the pump on all the time, i only turn it on once the amp draw is at 30. The DC motor controler should legthen the motor life and it deffinately makes it alot quieter. At full speed the little pump is a bit loud.

porkchop
06-27-2008, 10:46 AM
I am going to inject my hho into the center of the manifold (inline 6 cyl) of my Jeep Grand Cherokee 1997. I am moving the Evaporator vacuum line to the test port and injecting the hho right into the manifold. Will any problems arise from this?

Stratous
06-27-2008, 11:43 AM
As long as the evaporator gets the required vaccume from the test port, I dont forsee a problem.

Johnh
06-28-2008, 09:51 AM
The only problem that I can see (and I don't actually know that manifold) is that there may be no turbulent mixing of the HHO with the Air so all the HHO may only go into the cylinders close to the injection point.
Is this a problem? I don't know but I think I would like my charge equalized on all cylinders so the effects are even across the engine

Regards
John

timetowinarace
06-29-2008, 01:40 PM
Did you ever move your injection site? I also routed to the air cleaner box on my 06 3500. Just over the air filter.

Post turbo is not a good idea because the hho system as a whole would have to be pressureized to at least 40# PSI to overcome boost pressure. But routing after the air flow/temp sencer might make a difference? I may unplug this sencer at some point and see what happens.

FYI: I have also made other mods to this truck that improved mileage. Biggest gains have been with Bullydog programer set on performance. I got a 1 mpg gain by drilling several 1" holes in the bottom of the air cleaner box and useing a amsoil high flow air filter. I nocked all the guts out of the cat. Fuel filter needs changed often, twice as often as is called for. doesn't seem to matter where I get fuel, the filter makes a difference in mileage????

Stratous
06-29-2008, 03:06 PM
Did you ever move your injection site? I also routed to the air cleaner box on my 06 3500. Just over the air filter.

Post turbo is not a good idea because the hho system as a whole would have to be pressureized to at least 40# PSI to overcome boost pressure. But routing after the air flow/temp sencer might make a difference? I may unplug this sencer at some point and see what happens.

FYI: I have also made other mods to this truck that improved mileage. Biggest gains have been with Bullydog programer set on performance. I got a 1 mpg gain by drilling several 1" holes in the bottom of the air cleaner box and useing a amsoil high flow air filter. I nocked all the guts out of the cat. Fuel filter needs changed often, twice as often as is called for. doesn't seem to matter where I get fuel, the filter makes a difference in mileage????

I have not changed my injection location, its still run through the a/f box. I currently am using a K&N air filter, I didnt really notice any difference when I installaed that.

rmptr
06-29-2008, 09:19 PM
I'm pretty sure if I wanted to get the most out of my engine by reducing backpressure, I would go to a muffler shop and have them bolt in a 'test pipe' with flanges in place of the cat rather than knock the guts out.
They're expensive!
And before I left, I'd have them also weld flanges on my cat, so it could be re-installed. You know, after the off-road race...
Best

ELECTR0N3RD
07-03-2008, 03:14 AM
Nice are you using the box itself as the negative electrode?, and what are those rods or plates i cant tell,(poor eye sight) do you think plexi glass would make a suitable container, i was just pondering it, also i thought you were supposed to use the vacuum lines AND the air cleaner, am i wrong?

scottyhho
07-15-2008, 02:41 PM
i like the idea of the small water pump and flexible pvc. that would allow me to install a small water tank so i shouldn't have to worry about running out of water so soon. the gears are turning!!!

HHOWolfen
07-15-2008, 11:53 PM
OK But then again I do blame this lot on your illustrious president and his Daddy! I think you need Hillary Clinton, maybe she can sort things out. Seems to me that the best rulers and presidents or prime ministers have always been women! LOL All the best!


not to start an international incident, but hillary is the worst choice for dealing with our current gas problems, she and her ilk are to blame for most of them. dems here are dedicated to the destruction of our economy, and a gas crisis is the fastest way to achieve it. anyone thinking she or they can do better is either an idiot, of intentionally blind.

midnight1957
07-19-2008, 12:39 AM
Stradous, I like your set up, it looks simple and seems to make a lot of hydrogen.
Could you explain how you put your plates together, + - - + .Do you have a bolt going through all 4 plates with insulators between the positive and negative? I can't figure out by the picture how you are doing that without shorting out something although I know you aren't.

Do you not use any neutrals and if not why not?

Do you run bolts through your box and wire positive to negative, negative to positive, positive to negative and negative to positive, I think I am confused. I am just trying to see in my mind how you have it wired outside the box.

How did you come to the conclusion to use only the number of plates that you did, would more plates make more hydrogen? How did you come to the conclusion to use the size plates that you did, you have room for larger ones, would larger ones make more hydrogen.

Keep up the good work, this is soooo interesting.

Thanks and have a Blessed day,
Wade

Stratous
07-19-2008, 04:34 PM
Stradous, I like your set up, it looks simple and seems to make a lot of hydrogen.
Could you explain how you put your plates together, + - - + .Do you have a bolt going through all 4 plates with insulators between the positive and negative? I can't figure out by the picture how you are doing that without shorting out something although I know you aren't.

Do you not use any neutrals and if not why not?

Do you run bolts through your box and wire positive to negative, negative to positive, positive to negative and negative to positive, I think I am confused. I am just trying to see in my mind how you have it wired outside the box.

How did you come to the conclusion to use only the number of plates that you did, would more plates make more hydrogen? How did you come to the conclusion to use the size plates that you did, you have room for larger ones, would larger ones make more hydrogen.

Keep up the good work, this is soooo interesting.

Thanks and have a Blessed day,
Wade

I have 4 groups of 4 cells, I consider each group to be a cell. The container I used is an electrical box made by Cantex. You can find them at Home Depot or Lowes. I dont recommend them though as they warp easily. The plates I used are the Stainless steel wall plate that are used to cover empty eletrical outlets of empty light switchs. They can also be purcuased at lowes or HD. They are spaced at 1/16" apart in the +--+ configuration. The four cells are placed on each side of the box with each opposing cell wired in parallel. Then I Have the two parallel groups wired in series.

The way I have the plates connected is by drilling two large holes on opposing sides of the + and - plates. The large hole allows the bolt to pass through w/o touching. That is why I have the plates set up as +--+.

I dont use any nuetrals mainly because at the time I made this cell, these forums were not populated yet and I didnt even know about neutral plates.

Unfortunately I cant explain how the outside of the box is wired, its just to messy for me to try to explain. Imagine opposing plate sets wired in parallel, then those two sets are wired in series. I originaly wanted to wire all 4 in series, but for reasons I dont remember I didnt. Parallel wiring is connecting positive to positive and negative to negative, then series is positive to negative and using the last two post as the input terminals for the hot wire and ground.

midnight1957
07-19-2008, 09:42 PM
Stratus, in your set up of the + - - + do you think if you added 2 neutrals between the 2 - would it make the cell produce more hydrogen?
+ - NN - + or is there a better way?

Also do you know what size the box that you used is, LxWxH, I would like to make a stainless steel box about that size? If I did this would I need to insulate the positive and not the negative coming through the box?

In trying to figure out the witing on the outside of the box, please tell me if this is correct.

Take the 1st cell that has positive from the battery and go to the 2nd cell to the negative.
Take the negative that is on the 2nd cell and go to the positive of the 3rd cell.
Take the positive from the 3rd cell and go to the negative on the 4th cell.

Does all of this seem correct if not please correct me, I am a novice just trying to learn.

Thanks and have a Blessed day,
Wade

fts4sure
07-19-2008, 09:48 PM
I moved my hho injection from the air tube to the manifold only. I have since been able to eliminate all problems involving the MAP sensor and MAF sensor by doing this. Air enters the car thru the box and flows oneway. By switching the injection to the back side of these sensors the hho gas can't flow to the sensors. I only have to deal with the O2 sensor. (1) I have taken my 94 accord and have increased from 31 to 48 on the highway.

havocs29
07-19-2008, 10:00 PM
I have seen in some cases if you have too much vacuum and (diesel especially) the motor can actually suck the water in, even if the water was really low.

Stratous
07-20-2008, 02:28 AM
Stratus, in your set up of the + - - + do you think if you added 2 neutrals between the 2 - would it make the cell produce more hydrogen?
+ - NN - + or is there a better way?

Also do you know what size the box that you used is, LxWxH, I would like to make a stainless steel box about that size? If I did this would I need to insulate the positive and not the negative coming through the box?

In trying to figure out the witing on the outside of the box, please tell me if this is correct.

Take the 1st cell that has positive from the battery and go to the 2nd cell to the negative.
Take the negative that is on the 2nd cell and go to the positive of the 3rd cell.
Take the positive from the 3rd cell and go to the negative on the 4th cell.

Does all of this seem correct if not please correct me, I am a novice just trying to learn.

Thanks and have a Blessed day,
Wade


Placing the two n plate between the - plates probably wont help, if you want to use N plates do it like this. +n--n+. The reason is because the current will flow from - to +, so in the cell design that you wanted. +-nn-+ the current will not flow through the n plates.

The Cantex box is 8"x8"x6", you could use stainless steel for you container, but you most deffinately will have to isolate the positive terminals. In doing so, your Plate config will be -+n--n+. perhaps if you use the box as a cathode, then do this. -n++n- with the first neg being the box.

ozboy
07-20-2008, 04:30 AM
Stratous have been thinking i have merc sprinter turbo diesel common rail injection. i have injection point in air box on air filter side of air intact sensor like you. what if we connected hose on inside of box and fed down pass sensor towards turbo. also my truck is in warrenty so no one has come up with placing ball valve between manifold and O2 sensor that way you can control amount of exhaust gas sensor is reading can be removed for service and dont have to play with map wiring.

cheers conrad

thunder from down under

Stratous
07-20-2008, 10:09 AM
Good idea actually, with the ball valve. Give it a shot and let me know how it works out for ya?

93turbo_animal
07-21-2008, 01:13 AM
I have seen in some cases if you have too much vacuum and (diesel especially) the motor can actually suck the water in, even if the water was really low.

actually a diesel creates very very little vacuum due to no throttle plate to close off air flow thats why they have vacumm pumps drive off the belt to run accesories and power brakes if its not hydroboosted. A diesel injest as much air as it can all the time the only way you'll get a vacuum is if the filter gets plugged. Now with that being said you do want to be careful if you think theres a chance something could condense and send water droplets down your intake cause it won't be long you'll be replacing the turbo

bronco
07-22-2008, 01:01 PM
gasoline engines have manifold vacuum when the throttle valve is closed. when the throttle vale opens manifold vacuum drops and venturi vacuum increases. diesel engines have very little manifold vacuum until acceleration then you have a tremendous amount of manifold vacuum because of the amount of air being drawn in by the engine. so if you attach any hose to the manifold of a diesel then you create a venturi type vacuum which will be very strong at full throttle.

Checkmate240ZT
08-15-2008, 08:11 AM
I also have the 2006 Cummins and have read on some other sites that I agree with that in the intake passed the turbo and intercooler would be the best place to input the hho. The intake when under load has pressure form the turbo (mine runs up to or around 40psi.) and there is a way to fabricate a nozzle that will feed the hho into the intake as the velocity of air passes past it even thou there is a pressure present. Kind of like how a pressure washer can suck soap into the line even if there is several hundreds psi behind it (siphon effect). Anyone have one of those air siphon hoses?, works great. I think you loose a lot of benefit running the hho thru the turbo then intercooler and all the hose that connects them. I know the bubbler does help take some of the caustic out but remember early on in this post the cooler started leaking due to the caustic, well the intercooler is all aluminum and I don’t think the caustic will be very gentle on it and I would hate to have to buy one of those$$$. Think I may buy a used intake if I can find one and try to do the nozzle set-up. (Thought!, "self" the intake is aluminum also. Hope that bubbler works).

Tekneek
08-19-2008, 11:41 PM
I wanted to be careful on my car to install between the maf and the intake opening- the butterfly.

The reason is I did not want to take any chances with hydrogen enbrittlement.

Hydrogen does make certain metals brittle and a constant flow over the element in the mass air flow sensor could cause it to go out.

Aluminum does not seem to be affected by this. Zero Fossil Fuels on You Tube touched on this.