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BennyLava
06-07-2009, 07:52 AM
My idea for getting past all the computer/O2 sensor problem was those little performance upgrades called superchips. Specifically a brand called diablo chips. Typically, you go to the local speed shop and they "Flash" the chip to match your engine's needs. This can be done for any computerized vehicle. Well instead of saying "hey guys, i am going to need you to flash this to get the best performance out of these cylinder heads and my new supercharger".... couldn't we say something like "Hey guys flash this so it leans back the fuel when the 02 sensor detects (this much) oxygen."?

Basically, couldn't they just program the little superchip to work with our HHO generator? If worked out the way i am thinking, you would overcome about 5 common problems with one inexpensive action. Well, somewhat inexpensive. I think they charge about $200 to tune and flash a car/superchip for you. But if you could do it all at once like that, it would be well worth it. Then all you would have to do is sit back and enjoy the MPG gains.

WFCollective
06-07-2009, 11:58 AM
we are working in this direction also- the obd II will only take a small adjustment... please keep us posted on what you find. Thanks

BennyLava
06-07-2009, 10:08 PM
I still have a lot of reading and learning to do before i would even know what to tell the guys at the speedshop who would be programming the chip. For instance i just learned today (from this forum) that some people are having trouble with their HHO generator not "gearing down" for lack of a better term. In short, they need the generator to sort of make less HHO at idle, and increase as RPM's increase. Although, i think this is a problem to be solved outside of the vehicle's computer system. Sounds like they just need some kind of electronic regulator (possibly built into the PWM) that keeps track of RPM's (it could work off the ignition coil) and increases or decreases voltage as needed. I saw that one guy here was having problems with his idle being way to high cause the generator wont produce less when he is idling.

What else can yall think of? I need the complete list. Please help me think of any and all things that you think the chip could possibly help with. I personally know of two things it could do, it could overcome the O2 sensor problem as well as defeat the computer. Though this is likely all the same problem.

John Sargent
06-08-2009, 07:05 AM
My idea for getting past all the computer/O2 sensor problem was those little performance upgrades called superchips. Specifically a brand called diablo chips. Typically, you go to the local speed shop and they "Flash" the chip to match your engine's needs. This can be done for any computerized vehicle. Well instead of saying "hey guys, i am going to need you to flash this to get the best performance out of these cylinder heads and my new supercharger".... couldn't we say something like "Hey guys flash this so it leans back the fuel when the 02 sensor detects (this much) oxygen."?

Basically, couldn't they just program the little superchip to work with our HHO generator? If worked out the way i am thinking, you would overcome about 5 common problems with one inexpensive action. Well, somewhat inexpensive. I think they charge about $200 to tune and flash a car/superchip for you. But if you could do it all at once like that, it would be well worth it. Then all you would have to do is sit back and enjoy the MPG gains.

Take a look at this, they claim it replaces EFIEs. I am trying one out on my 2005 Honda Civic with a dry cell:

http://yhst-19807630266082.stores.yahoo.net/fuel-saver--fs1.html
Fuel Saver - FS1
Fuel Saver - FS1
Item# FS1
Regular Price: $89.95
Sale Price : $59.95
Select Vehicle:
Availability: Usually ships the same business day.
Product Description
Save money at the pump!

Color May Vary (Blue/Black)

How does it work?
The Volo DSF Chip works by an exclusive process of Dynamic Soft-Flashing the ECU.

Each DSF Fuel Saver comes programmed with a highly tuned map and a set of EPROM addresses that directly affect fuel efficiency. When the ECU attempts to read the specific EPROM address, the Volo Chip patches the factory value with one from its tuned map.

Built on the same platform as our popular VP11, the FS1 utilizes the same exclusive patching algorithms to increase fuel efficiency across the map by up to 18%.

Easy Installation!
Locate the OBD-II port, use the included connectors, and you're done.

ATTENTION INTERNATIONAL CUSTOMERS : Please verify your vehicle is OBD-II compliant before making a purchase.

Recommended by HHO users!

Alex Tyrrell
06-08-2009, 10:37 AM
Hi

I have a bit of experiance chipping honda/acura computers. When you re map a computer you can change the ignition and fuel tables. This alows you to compensate for the faster burn rate of hho by retarding the timing. It also alows you to directly change the air fuel ratio. Insted of modefing all the sensors, just chip the ecu!

Generally it is easy to chip the obd1 ecus. The obd2 ones are more difficult. The solution for honda/acura is to run a older ecu with the help of an adapter harness.

Another option is to buy an aftermarket ecu. You can plug these in to a computer via usb and allow you to make changes on the fly. They also come with programmable outputs (good for pwm control??)

As for the throttle interface with the pwm, someone could easily interface the two. Most of the time the throttle position sensors use a simple 0-5V signal.

Hope this helps.

BennyLava
06-09-2009, 04:47 PM
Ok next question... Anyone done any of this stuff, who might have some results that we could see?

WFCollective
06-15-2009, 09:13 PM
Hi

I have a bit of experiance chipping honda/acura computers. When you re map a computer you can change the ignition and fuel tables. This alows you to compensate for the faster burn rate of hho by retarding the timing. It also alows you to directly change the air fuel ratio. Insted of modefing all the sensors, just chip the ecu!

Generally it is easy to chip the obd1 ecus. The obd2 ones are more difficult. The solution for honda/acura is to run a older ecu with the help of an adapter harness.

Another option is to buy an aftermarket ecu. You can plug these in to a computer via usb and allow you to make changes on the fly. They also come with programmable outputs (good for pwm control??)

As for the throttle interface with the pwm, someone could easily interface the two. Most of the time the throttle position sensors use a simple 0-5V signal.

Hope this helps.


The advantage of the aftermarket ecu is the ability to run the vehicle w/ or w/o hho- the leaner settings could cook a motor... G Wiseman advocates running the 3 AC phases from the alternator, rectifying and running higher voltage/ lower amperage cells that are capacitive amperage limited- this pairs hho output to RPM well. His EFIE design is working well in my OBD I...

John Sargent
06-23-2009, 08:05 AM
Howdy guys,

First results on the Honda Civic 2005 below. It has a dry cell and the FS1 chip installed. The normal mileage is 25/city, and 34/highway. My son has it on a trip to Atlanta, and his highway mileage is running at 40mpg, a 17.6% increase. Not great, but not bad. Took the efies off, and it is running with the chip only modifying the ECU.
John


Take a look at this, they claim it replaces EFIEs. I am trying one out on my 2005 Honda Civic with a dry cell:

http://yhst-19807630266082.stores.yahoo.net/fuel-saver--fs1.html
Fuel Saver - FS1
Fuel Saver - FS1
Item# FS1
Regular Price: $89.95
Sale Price : $59.95
Select Vehicle:
Availability: Usually ships the same business day.
Product Description
Save money at the pump!

Color May Vary (Blue/Black)

How does it work?
The Volo DSF Chip works by an exclusive process of Dynamic Soft-Flashing the ECU.

Each DSF Fuel Saver comes programmed with a highly tuned map and a set of EPROM addresses that directly affect fuel efficiency. When the ECU attempts to read the specific EPROM address, the Volo Chip patches the factory value with one from its tuned map.

Built on the same platform as our popular VP11, the FS1 utilizes the same exclusive patching algorithms to increase fuel efficiency across the map by up to 18%.

Easy Installation!
Locate the OBD-II port, use the included connectors, and you're done.

ATTENTION INTERNATIONAL CUSTOMERS : Please verify your vehicle is OBD-II compliant before making a purchase.

Recommended by HHO users!

BennyLava
06-26-2009, 04:22 PM
I thought that EFIe's technically wouldn't work (at least not alone) because the computer gets wise that it's being fooled? And then it simply quits listening to the 02 sensor cause it thinks something is wrong with it?

John Sargent
06-27-2009, 07:03 AM
The ECM seemed to be overcoming my efies, which is why I switched over to the VOLO chip. In addition, I was concerned about over-leaning the engine and ruining it. The chip seems to be working in concert with the ECM with no problems.


I thought that EFIe's technically wouldn't work (at least not alone) because the computer gets wise that it's being fooled? And then it simply quits listening to the 02 sensor cause it thinks something is wrong with it?

BennyLava
06-27-2009, 04:44 PM
Cool. So what kind of car and engine is it? And what kind of gains are you seeing?

John Sargent
06-29-2009, 07:22 AM
Cool. So what kind of car and engine is it? And what kind of gains are you seeing?

2005 Honda Civic, 1.7l, auto trans. EPA hwy=34, getting 40 with Volo chip, +17.6% increase, haven't checked city yet. On my 2007 Honda Accord, EPA city=23, I'm getting 28, 21.7% increase. Haven't checked hwy yet.

Boltazar
06-29-2009, 11:11 PM
G Wiseman advocates running the 3 AC phases from the alternator, rectifying and running higher voltage/ lower amperage cells that are capacitive amperage limited- this pairs hho output to RPM well.

Can anyone direct me to more info on this alternator mod.

Flashing the chip, although the most diffacult to do, is probably the answer to using HHO.

Any one use a vaporizer or water injection in combination with HHO and leaner gas/air racios.

BennyLava
06-29-2009, 11:25 PM
2005 Honda Civic, 1.7l, auto trans. EPA hwy=34, getting 40 with Volo chip, +17.6% increase, haven't checked city yet. On my 2007 Honda Accord, EPA city=23, I'm getting 28, 21.7% increase. Haven't checked hwy yet.

You gotta watch those EPA ratings though. They are generally skewed. My mom's 07 accord four door gets 28MPG with no HHO generator. I tested it when i was considering an accord for myself...

glester
06-30-2009, 10:55 AM
I still have a lot of reading and learning to do before i would even know what to tell the guys at the speedshop who would be programming the chip. For instance i just learned today (from this forum) that some people are having trouble with their HHO generator not "gearing down" for lack of a better term. In short, they need the generator to sort of make less HHO at idle, and increase as RPM's increase. Although, i think this is a problem to be solved outside of the vehicle's computer system. Sounds like they just need some kind of electronic regulator (possibly built into the PWM) that keeps track of RPM's (it could work off the ignition coil) and increases or decreases voltage as needed. I saw that one guy here was having problems with his idle being way to high cause the generator wont produce less when he is idling.

What else can yall think of? I need the complete list. Please help me think of any and all things that you think the chip could possibly help with. I personally know of two things it could do, it could overcome the O2 sensor problem as well as defeat the computer. Though this is likely all the same problem.

On my HHO system, the generator is controlled by a switch that plugs into the vacuum line. At idle or low acceleration (i.e. idling or cruising) whenever the MAP reads below 5 inches, the switch is open, and no HHO production occurs. As soon as you hit the accelerator, the switch closes, in turn switching on a power relay which powers the generator, producing gas once again. You really don't need the HHO on all the time. Just my opinion.

George

Alex Tyrrell
07-11-2009, 11:15 PM
It is possible to make the ecu put out a 5v signal whenever the rpm passes a given value., just like a shift light.

If anyone has a 88-00 Honda or Acura and wants to experiment with a chipped ecu pm me, I can help with this. It is quite easy to change the Air Fuel Ratios and to retard the timing.

BennyLava
07-12-2009, 11:16 AM
It is possible to make the ecu put out a 5v signal whenever the rpm passes a given value., just like a shift light.

If anyone has a 88-00 Honda or Acura and wants to experiment with a chipped ecu pm me, I can help with this. It is quite easy to change the Air Fuel Ratios and to retard the timing.

Have you had any kind of good results with it?

Alex Tyrrell
07-12-2009, 02:20 PM
I have not yet installed HHO on a Honda. I will be attempthing this in the comming weeks.

Roland Jacques
07-17-2009, 08:42 PM
That Volo fuel saver sounds interesting. i might have to try one on my Savanna van i use for work. Lately i suspect my van has been running in closed loop because my mileage has gone down to 9.5 MPG. (i forget which is which closed loop or open loop that is full rich.) I wonder if the Volo would correct that issue also.
Would you have to remove the Volo every time you want to pull codes?

John Sargent,

Did you happen to take a exhaust Gas Temp reading before and after installing the Volo?

John Sargent
07-18-2009, 07:10 AM
That Volo fuel saver sounds interesting. i might have to try one on my Savanna van i use for work. Lately i suspect my van has been running in closed loop because my mileage has gone down to 9.5 MPG. (i forget which is which closed loop or open loop that is full rich.) I wonder if the Volo would correct that issue also.
Would you have to remove the Volo every time you want to pull codes?

John Sargent,

Did you happen to take a exhaust Gas Temp reading before and after installing the Volo?

No, I didn't, sorry. Closed loop is the efficient one, open loop the full rich. I use a handheld scanner to clear ECM codes, don't think the Volo chip does that.

Alex Tyrrell
07-20-2009, 08:28 PM
These systems are no good. In my opinion reprogramming the ecu is the only way to go.

Check out the following article from pgmfi.org -A tuning website for Honda/Acura

"Piggy Back controllers allow stock ECUs to do things that they normally can't do, like run larger injectors or deal with boost. Remember that piggyback controllers work by altering sensor signals before they get to the ECU.

Most of the time, the primary signal being messed with is the Map Sensor. This is critically important in a Speed Density car. The Map Sensor is used by the ECU to guess how much air is going into the car, and therefore how much fuel to supply in order to match airflow. When you "lean" out a car with an AFC, you are simply decreasing the Map Sensor signal - the ECU responds to the decrease in manifold pressure by supplying less fuel. When you "richen" a car with an AFC, you are simply increasing the Map Sensor signal - the ECU responds to the increase in manifold pressure by supplying less fuel.

The change in fueling happens for a reason: if you look at a fuel table, Map Sensor values correspond with columns. When you increase or decrease the signal from the Map Sensor, you are simply making the ECU use a different column than it originally would have used. (see Understanding Maps if you need some help understanding reading Fuel and Ign tables)

But wait, isn't the Map Sensor used for determining ignition requirements too? When you "lean" out a car with a Piggy Back, you also in all likelyhood advanced timing. When you "richen" a car with a Piggy Back, you also in all likelyhood retarded timing. Look at trends horizontally (as MAP changes) in an ignition table, and you will see why this happens. This helps explain why so many boosted cars running on the "AFC hack" have issues due to excessive ignition advance.

The bottom line: Piggy Back Controllers suck because you cannot independently adjust fuel and ignition. Any changes to fueling will produce a change in ignition too, and often this is undesirable."-end

Keep in mind HHO works best with retarded timing and a leaner mixture. Below is a screen shot showing the ignition and fuel map editing software called turboedit.
http://www.xenocron.com/image/TEvtec5.jpg

Q-Hack!
07-20-2009, 10:25 PM
Good info, thanks.

pbt308
07-27-2009, 05:30 PM
Quick question on the piggy back controller. I am wondering if there are any designed for full size GM 8 cylinder apps? Any suggestions?

Roland Jacques
07-27-2009, 08:16 PM
Quick question on the piggy back controller. I am wondering if there are any designed for full size GM 8 cylinder apps? Any suggestions?
They have one for my 2001 Savanna van 5.7.
http://yhst-19807630266082.stores.yahoo.net/fuel-saver--fs1.html

But the info of Alex's about advancing timing should be of concern when being used with HHO. I'm not up on ECU stuff but i wonder if all MAP EFIEs would have the same potential advancing timing issues

soda_pop503
07-28-2009, 07:50 PM
I still have a lot of reading and learning to do before i would even know what to tell the guys at the speedshop who would be programming the chip. For instance i just learned today (from this forum) that some people are having trouble with their HHO generator not "gearing down" for lack of a better term. In short, they need the generator to sort of make less HHO at idle, and increase as RPM's increase. Although, i think this is a problem to be solved outside of the vehicle's computer system. Sounds like they just need some kind of electronic regulator (possibly built into the PWM) that keeps track of RPM's (it could work off the ignition coil) and increases or decreases voltage as needed. I saw that one guy here was having problems with his idle being way to high cause the generator wont produce less when he is idling.

What else can yall think of? I need the complete list. Please help me think of any and all things that you think the chip could possibly help with. I personally know of two things it could do, it could overcome the O2 sensor problem as well as defeat the computer. Though this is likely all the same problem.

my only idea would be to somehow use the signal from the throttle position sensor to control the amperage going to the HHO generator. This could probably be done by a slight modification to a Pulse Width Modulator.

soda_pop503
07-28-2009, 08:09 PM
For instance i just learned today (from this forum) that some people are having trouble with their HHO generator not "gearing down" for lack of a better term. In short, they need the generator to sort of make less HHO at idle, and increase as RPM's increase. Although, i think this is a problem to be solved outside of the vehicle's computer system. Sounds like they just need some kind of electronic regulator (possibly built into the PWM) that keeps track of RPM's (it could work off the ignition coil) and increases or decreases voltage as needed. I saw that one guy here was having problems with his idle being way to high cause the generator wont produce less when he is idling.


A better idea! instead of lowering the amount of hho produced at lower rpms and idle, the fuel should be reduced. and as the rpms rise and the HHO generator cannot keep up more fuel can be added to compensate.

But this sounds like its a job for a complete tuning where you have the ability to adjust the AFR and the Timing seperately.

ramcustom
08-20-2009, 07:55 AM
So whats the answer? Is the Volo FS1 the magic pill to the hho ecu management problem?

Alex Tyrrell
08-21-2009, 09:47 PM
A better idea! instead of lowering the amount of hho produced at lower rpms and idle, the fuel should be reduced. and as the rpms rise and the HHO generator cannot keep up more fuel can be added to compensate.

But this sounds like its a job for a complete tuning where you have the ability to adjust the AFR and the Timing seperately.

You have an interesting point here. Perhaps if one were to chip the ecu they should aim to be leaner at idol and richer at higher rpm while keeping the volume of hho constant. Quite easy to do with a chipped ecu!

HHOJeeper
04-12-2010, 01:52 AM
Anyone here actually use one of the HHOkitsdirect chips? Its a great pitch but to be frank it seems too well set up to market and that sets me off the product a bit. I have yet to find reviews elsewhere about their chip.

http://www.hhokitsdirect.com/mileage-chip-for-hho-generator.php

I may contact them in a few weeks once I get my gen up and we will see how their customer service is. I also want to see if they will let me return it if I am not happy with the results.

HHOJeeper
04-17-2010, 01:45 AM
You gotta watch those EPA ratings though. They are generally skewed. My mom's 07 accord four door gets 28MPG with no HHO generator. I tested it when i was considering an accord for myself...
I think current mpg is kinda screwy. My first car a 79 accord 4 door got 45 mpg average per tank and I drove it as hard as possible. I thought I was the cooled ricer around as a senior in high school.

How much can new cars blame the difference in mpg on powering of accessories?

smallfish
03-31-2011, 07:33 PM
I have a bit of experiance chipping honda/acura computers. When you re map a computer you can change the ignition and fuel tables. This alows you to compensate for the faster burn rate of hho by retarding the timing. It also alows you to directly change the air fuel ratio. Insted of modefing all the sensors, just chip the ecu!

Brent
04-04-2011, 07:08 PM
I just got my VOLO FS II HHO chip today and I will be curious how it works with my HHO system. It seems much easier and more efficient then screwing around with an EFIE set up.

lilneily2005
05-03-2011, 03:20 AM
I still have a lot of reading and learning to do before i would even know what to tell the guys at the speedshop who would be programming the chip. For instance i just learned today (from this forum) that some people are having trouble with their HHO generator not "gearing down" for lack of a better term. In short, they need the generator to sort of make less HHO at idle, and increase as RPM's increase. Although, i think this is a problem to be solved outside of the vehicle's computer system. Sounds like they just need some kind of electronic regulator (possibly built into the PWM) that keeps track of RPM's (it could work off the ignition coil) and increases or decreases voltage as needed. I saw that one guy here was having problems with his idle being way to high cause the generator wont produce less when he is idling.

What else can yall think of? I need the complete list. Please help me think of any and all things that you think the chip could possibly help with. I personally know of two things it could do, it could overcome the O2 sensor problem as well as defeat the computer. Though this is likely all the same problem.
I am looking into buying a HYDRO GAS system on ebay whereas there is a FS2 chip that connects directly the the ECM Control. I have seen many of their systems for sale on ebay and only 2 that use the FS2 that flashes a number of the computer functions and them works with the computer rather than trying to fool it. It is the only system that I have seen and they seem to have beaten this problem. I am buying one and will further evaluate it.

vivian
06-07-2011, 06:31 AM
Cool. good luck for all

danser75
01-07-2012, 02:27 AM
Is it possible to order a fs1, fs2, or fs,3 that will work on a 1992 Buick Century with a 3.3 liter. I looked it up and they hook into the obd-II connection and I have that connection. Has anyone tried these on a car that's older than 1996 with any luck? I don't want to fry the existing computer or ruin my motor but I would like to use one of these if I can.

SuckSqueezeBangBlow
04-07-2012, 11:56 AM
I have a bit of experiance chipping honda/acura computers. When you re map a computer you can change the ignition and fuel tables. This alows you to compensate for the faster burn rate of hho by retarding the timing. It also alows you to directly change the air fuel ratio. Insted of modefing all the sensors, just chip the ecu!

How do you get around the problem of the o2 sensors and switchpoints while in closed loop operation? Do you just force open loop or what.

While in closed loop operations the the o2 sensors switch from 14.5-14.9 and the fuelling is constantly being adjusted so that the o2 sensors read in the range.

corvairbob
04-26-2012, 06:58 AM
i got one of those volo chips and it did nothing for my s10 they did take it back. but i got it thru ebay so they really had no choice.