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Boltazar
07-17-2008, 08:56 PM
I'm just reading todays posts and things keep flying into my head. Ouch. If an engine is at idle it dosen't need much HHO gas production. On the other hand at highway speeds or full excelleration the engine needs the most production of HHO. Do we have a way to regulate this difference or don't we need to?

Pete

dennis13030
07-17-2008, 09:35 PM
I've thought about this for some time now. Give me a little time to do a drawing that will help explain what i came up with.

This idea really counts if the vehicle is to run ONLY on HHO.

ETA is 1 hr.

mneste8718
07-17-2008, 10:09 PM
Why should you put a limit on the HHO production? If you're producing a lot of HHO at idle, that should mean that you are using even less gasoline...

Boltazar
07-17-2008, 10:43 PM
I DON'T THINK YOU WOULD USE LESS GASOLINE at idle just a much richer mixture of HHO to Gasoline which could be bad for the engine.

Bigtoyota
07-17-2008, 10:51 PM
I've come up with an idea, although implementing it is another story. Every EFI car has a TPS (throttle position sensor) right? We need to tap into those wires, and create a controller for a DC motor controller to control the amperage, probably with some kind of amplifier in-line because the voltages and amperages at the TPS is rather low.

Or maybe just use the TPS as the potentiometer for the DC motor controller? I'm not quite sure how those work, I'd need an electrical schematic to figure it all out.

It would probably be different resistances per car also, as I'm sure they don't all use the same TPS units. That could be easily remedied at the local Radio Shack for some dime resistors.

Anyone follow me at all?

mneste8718
07-17-2008, 10:57 PM
I DON'T THINK YOU WOULD USE LESS GASOLINE at idle just a much richer mixture of HHO to Gasoline which could be bad for the engine.

Well how could it be bad on the engine then? The only thing I can imagine is that if you build a huge system, then you might be burning up your alternator but most cars raise their rpms when they sense a high amp draw.

dennis13030
07-17-2008, 11:19 PM
See the drawing below and tell me what you guys think.

Dewayne
07-17-2008, 11:22 PM
I don't have any knowledge on how the ECU in a car operates other than what I have raed on the HHO forums, so this is a guess on my part and makes sence to me.

When you are at an idle the ECU will be checking the exhuast the same as it does while your driving. If it see the exhuast is to rich it will cut back the amount of gasoline it is feeding the engine. As you are prouducing the same amount of HHO at idle same you are at 2200 rpm
then you will require much less gasoline at idle and you will be using more of the HHO to substaine an idle rpm.

This is just a guess on my part.

Boltazar
07-17-2008, 11:56 PM
I think to much HHO would need the timming retarded. Again, I think all engines fire well before TDC, especially at highway speeds.

Boltazar
07-18-2008, 12:00 AM
The design would probably work. Storage of this stuff (HHO) is BAD. At this point I can't see how to compensate for the lag time of needing and not needing the extra HHO and making it

Boltazar
07-18-2008, 12:16 AM
Using the TPS would be the best way to try to adjust the HHO output IF adjusting it is needed. Remember the HHO at this point is just enhancing the gasoline burning. If we get to the point of running on HHO entirely, adjustments in production of HHO would probably be needed. Do you, or anyone here think an engine could run on HHO completly. I really don't know.

Bigtoyota
07-18-2008, 01:06 AM
Well, I don't really think it needs to be adjusted at this point in time because so many people here are running it with no adjustments whatsoever. I was merely trying to throw out ideas for those that wanted to play with adjustable production generators.

And no, as far as I know, there is no vehicle made yet that can run on pure HHO. I mean, it's possible an engine could. They have hydrogen cars now. The problem with HHO is it doesn't store well at all, and the amount of gas you would need to produce to run a car engine on HHO is mind boggling at this point in time.

daveczrn
07-18-2008, 01:32 AM
i have been thinking of this for a few weeks and i think i have gotten a reliable idea that i am going to try and get working. when i build my generator i will post all my idea's in detail.

dave

nadeem5476
07-18-2008, 03:16 AM
thats a great idea but what if engine is taking much less gas (at idle) and the spring is closed so there must b a safety valve tht to open to release the excess gas , and if that gas will b released in the hood it may b ignite !!!


See the drawing below and tell me what you guys think.

nadeem5476
07-18-2008, 03:36 AM
if we just connect the electrodes thru a bridge rectifier from a alternator thn it will work with the RPMs

what you say ?

dennis13030
07-18-2008, 09:10 AM
thats a great idea but what if engine is taking much less gas (at idle) and the spring is closed so there must b a safety valve tht to open to release the excess gas , and if that gas will b released in the hood it may b ignite !!!

No safety valve needed. At low speeds or idle, the bellows fills with HHO to a point where the bellows full detector is activated, this cuts power to the electrolyzer and stops production. Next, the vehicle accelerates, this opens the valve releasing enough HHO, the bellows collapses and power is restored to the electrolyzer.

dennis13030
07-18-2008, 09:16 AM
if we just connect the electrodes thru a bridge rectifier from a alternator thn it will work with the RPMs

what you say ?

You might have a great idea here. Power from the alternator is derived from the RPMs of the motor. Some alternators have the bridge and regulator as one unit. I still would need a small HHO reserve(bellows) for the delay between when more gas is needed and the production to supply this demand.

dennis13030
07-18-2008, 09:20 AM
Storage of this stuff (HHO) is BAD.

I agree. I just do know how much of a reserve would be necessary to over come this delay.

Bwanar
07-18-2008, 09:50 AM
I like the idea Dennis...any idea for where such a bellows can be found? Here perhaps...

www.ibcbellows.com/?gclid=CMrGk67KyZQCFQyenAodwi4MqQ


See the drawing below and tell me what you guys think.

Boltazar
09-13-2008, 11:57 PM
Theres a guy at www.beawindhog.com that can store HHO in containers at about 100 psi Once you get to this point you can make a car that runs on HHO entirely. No lag time.

Roland Jacques
09-14-2008, 01:59 AM
Heres a link to some more ideas.
http://hhoforums.com/showthread.php?t=1158

hydrotinkerer
09-14-2008, 04:33 PM
Why not hook your cells to throttle plate vacuum and NOT manifold vacuum? Throttle plate vacuum has no vacuum at idle(no or tiny amount of gas used) as the throttle is opened the vacuum is varied on throttle position. Manifold vacuum is full vacuum at idle and when throttle is opened vacuum drops off. Poor mans way of HHO on demand.

Jaxom
09-15-2008, 09:20 AM
I'm working on this right now. I have parts on order to build a modified version of RideLong's current limiting PWM (http://www.hhoforums.com/showthread.php?t=917) which will control the current through the cell in a manner proportional to engine load. The "lag-time" for transitions will still be present, and that's hard to get around, but it should be much more effective than the present steady-flow system.

DaneDHorstead
09-15-2008, 11:33 AM
See the drawing below and tell me what you guys think.
That is a little complicated, but very interesting!

It is truley on of the first original ideas I have come accross lately!