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EdCaffreyMS
07-18-2008, 01:28 PM
Hello!

I just recently learned of HHO, and have been investigating it for a short while. I found this forum via a web search, and have really appreciated all the information I've found.

My first, and only experiment has been with the Water4Gas design, and I have it hooked up to my 87 Toyota pickup right now, attached to a vacuum port on the intake manifold). This truck has no computer, and a weber carb. So far it has done everything that was claimed (not sure on the mileage yet, still too new). The engine began to run much smoother after about 1 minute, and the acceleration curve has picked up noticeably. After reading this forum, and experiencing the overheating issues with baking soda, I'm looking for something better.

Today I learned of the Smack's Booster, and have been investigating it. I intend to build one, but there's still a lot about it I do not understand. For example..... The Water4Gas design incorporates a valve that allows outside air to be "sucked" in a "bubbler tube", where as the Smack unit seems to be completely sealed. This is where I'm not getting it. On the unit I currently have installed, the engine vac pulls the HHO out of the unit and into the intake manifold, but the Smack design doesn't seem to do that....I'm not sure.....does the HHO generation create positive pressure inside the Smack unit? Or has something been left out of the plans?

Input from anyone with experience on the Smack unit is appreciated!

timetowinarace
07-18-2008, 02:19 PM
Yes, in a sealed container, producing hho will create a positive pressure.

The theory behind the valve in the water4gas design is that the bubbles pulled into the unit bubble up through the electrodes dislodging hho bubbles.

In a sealed unit vaccum will supposedly increase production.

In my mind, neither system can be proved to be more efficiant without expensive equipment to measure just the hydrogen output as other gas's are introduced into the mix and gas volume will be missleading.

Stratous
07-18-2008, 03:18 PM
I am not sure I understand the logic of the water-4-gas design, doesnt the intake tube create a vacuum leak on the vehicle? All that air that is getting sucked into the generator goes right into the vacuum tube, doesnt it? The theory behind the smack's is no outside air, so no vacuum leak.

EdCaffreyMS
07-18-2008, 03:22 PM
Thank You! My thought is to build the Smack unit, and place a valve similar to the Water4Gas unit.....and be able to adjust the amount of vacuum that is put on the unit. After reading a ton of information on the various units, I really liked the idea of the built-in "bubbler" on the Smack unit. This Water4Gas unit that I built does not have the bubbler, and it just seems like a smarter way of doing things.(having the bubbler tube).

Again, Thank you!

Bigtoyota
07-18-2008, 04:06 PM
Like you, I have just today acquired all parts necessary to build a smacks type booster. I prepped the wall covers and built the lid of the unit last night. The unit should be done this evening with tests to follow. I also plan on doing the initial tests on my 1986 toyota with a 22R-E fuel injected motor. There are two reasons for this. 1. Simple fuel injection with OBD1. 2. High amp alternator and heavy duty alternator already installed.

My 2003 Honda has a rather small battery and a small alternator as well. I run a linear amplifier for my ham equipment that draws around 20 amps. This burned up the stock 65 amp alternator in my Toyota. Something for everyone with small cars to consider is the amperage rating of the alternator and your draw on it.

I would recommend that you not hook the HHO directly into the vacuum port. With a bubbler, you run the risk of sucking water into your vacuum port. Also, since the smack unit is pressure positive, you could just run it into your air cleaner on the carb.

The other reason for not using the vacuum port is that you have the highest amount of vacuum at an idle. As you open the butterfly valves in the carb, the amount of vacuum actually decreases. However, a check valve should be installed between the generator and the bubble to make sure that as the generator cools it does not suck water back into the generator and dilute your electrolyte.

cougar gt-e
07-18-2008, 04:53 PM
Bigtoyota,

You are correct about wide open throttle being low (no) vacuum, but normal highway cruising is going to run in the 18-22 in hg range and that is normally the highest steady vacuum. The only time the vacuum will drop below 8-10 in hg is when getting heavy with the peddle. Stop and go with jack rabbit starts that type of thing.

I would also agree that some sort of protection should be in place to keep from sucking water into the carb. Something like a fermentation lock is what is needed.

Packer Fan

rmptr
07-18-2008, 07:10 PM
Water4gas advises their bubbler mounted on the cell lid be adjusted to a minimum. The leaning of mix seen by the engine should be minimal.

It is NOT a substitute for a flashback bubbler installed in between the cell and the point of intake to the engine.

Best

justaguy
07-18-2008, 08:17 PM
I think the idea of the valve on the generator is because with the vacuum sucking its like sucking on a straw with your finger over the other end, you have to have air coming in at the same rate its being sucked out.

I have heard of a couple of generators and bubblers collapsing due to high vaccum. Also, there has been a few had the vacuum to suck their bubbler and generator dry.

I also think Stratous is right about it being the same as a vacuum leak.
Most successful generators have enough pressure to push the gas into the intake, if not the generator isn't producing very well.

Another reason to put a check valve between the generator and bubbler is to keep any back pressure from the generator sucking the water from your bubbler after shutting the engine off.

EdCaffreyMS
07-18-2008, 10:31 PM
Thanks for all the input folks! Being new to this, I was not totally sure of the Smack creating positive pressure. The Water4Gas unit that is now in the truck was scaring me because the vacuum literally sucks the lid down to the point I thought it might collapse!

I guess once the Smack unit gets built I will have to adjust my thinking on how the HHO gets into the engine.

So much to learn.....so much to learn! :) I'm really liking this place!

I agree with the check valves! Guess Mcmaster-Carr will be getting an order from me soon! Any other good sources for the check valves? I've searched locally, but there are only so many places to look in Great Falls, MT!

Bigtoyota
07-18-2008, 10:44 PM
My smack unit is now completed and generating well. I have only 1/4 tsp of NaOH in the cell right now, and it's producing well. I believe the smack design holds close to a gallon of water. Drawing about 7 amps cold. I'm going to build an LPM device tomorrow and see what kind of output I'm getting.

Word to the wise about those wall plates you get from Lowe's: The side that would face out from the wall has a nice plastic film on it. Make sure you take that off BEFORE you assemble your cell :D

EdCaffreyMS
07-19-2008, 12:22 PM
I'd love to see a photo or two of how/where you mounted it on the Toy. The only place I could fit the Water4Gas unit in was on the front fender well, where the air box used to be, before I modified the truck with an electric fan and a weber carb (mine's not EFI). I was thinking about it yesterday and I think the best I can do for size (and still get it under the hood) is about 7-8".

I'm heading out today to start scrounging the parts for a Smack's. I'm booked up this coming week, so it will likely be a couple of weeks before I get mine built.

This brings up another thought. Has anyone come up with a solution for using the unit during freezing weather? (maybe a battery warmer?) Being in North Central Montana, we usually have two seasons......winter and August. :)

gheuett
07-20-2008, 09:36 AM
I have posted some pictures of my setup on Photobucket. Thought I would try it out and see if the link works. Holler if there are questions.

Thanks!
Gib


http://s329.photobucket.com/albums/l375/gheuett/Hydroxy/