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Stratous
07-19-2008, 05:44 PM
Ok folks, how do we respond to this? It seems there are more "experts" out there who say this doesnt work. Personally I find it offensive.
http://consumeraffairs.com/news04/2008/07/water4gas.html

Bigtoyota
07-19-2008, 09:20 PM
Seeing as how they only sampled that one device, I think they really have no clue how much gas you can produce from a car battery. You're getting 1.5 LPM out of your device. I'm getting at least 500 ML/M out of my new smack type booster.

I think the data Smith has collected can and will be an invaluable tool. That is the kind of data that should be presented to these skeptics. It also seems like there just isn't enough of that type of data around. Just people making claims!! I mean really, how much data like Smith's is really available? That is the kind of diagnosis this technology needs if it is to ever gain a foothold.

timetowinarace
07-19-2008, 09:24 PM
I don't find it offensive. They're attacking those that are getting or trying to get rich from open source information.

I havn't bought any books, or devices to make this hho stuff work.

The idea behind the story is to stop people from spending a $100 bucks to learn the same thing that they can learn here for free.

They don't say it doesn't work at all, they say it may work minimally. 5% gain I think.

Stratous
07-20-2008, 02:58 AM
Well, there are people like us who are not afraid to build or create, then there are those who want someone else to build and create. I dont want those people to be afraid to ask the builders to build for them. I have no problem giving out free information, but I would love it if the non builders would ask me to build for them. So negative reports tend to make the non-builders skeptic because they wont or cant build and experiment for themselves.

timetowinarace
07-20-2008, 09:58 AM
That's true. I got my start with hho because my cousin stumbled on it and asked for my help because he didn't understand the electrical component. He asked me to 'look it up'. I'm building my third unit and he still talks about it, even though his brother has also built one with success.

I don't want to build them though. Not for others. By the time I spent time building and installing, most people will not use them for very long even if they work. Why? They are very high maintanance. Most people that won't build one won't maintain one. Therefore their money is wasted and down the road they will say 'Yeah, I tried that hho stuff but it really wasn't worth the trouble'.

For the general public these have to be made low maintanance and that isn't possible without making them expensive. Only the tinkerers will continue to use these in a couple of years. Less than 10% of the members of this board.

tbhavsar
07-21-2008, 12:50 AM
Here is an example of a hydrogen generator car :

Ronn Motors Scorpion Exotic Car Saves Gas Using Hydrogen - June 4th, 2008
http://www.dancewithshadows.com/moto...photo-gallery/


http://www.ronnmotors.com/cms/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=1&Itemid=110

stickittoopec
07-21-2008, 09:20 PM
I for one am glad to see that guy busted. He has put some dangerous stuff out there. Glass jars should never be used for this stuff. If someone got hurt or killed the law makers would be all over this trying to out law it. His design is a joke, and will make more steam than hydrogen gas. This is why it is important to use standard testing to report successes. We also need to know what we are talking about and have realistic goals. Flow meters are cheap and temperature sensors will let you know if you are flowing steam or HHO gas. Then when we get it right people will come to us. The price of gas is only going to go higher and if they come down they won't stay down for long.

airdude
07-21-2008, 10:51 PM
and risky approach to generating HHO. but the guy provides a service and most people have a successful experience following his advice. On another note here is the company that does the Scorpion car that gets 40+ mpg, with 450 twin turbo HP, and looks as good as any Ferrari or Lambo.
http://www.hydrorunner.com/

RMForbes
07-22-2008, 11:59 AM
I have to agree with stickittoopec using glass is just too dangerous and will just give those that would like to shut us all down a reason to do so. The way they aggressively market their site and spam the email servers screams scam and gives those of us that are doing serious investigation a bad rap. I would wish that Water4Gas would see the error of their ways and just stop the BS before they give congress a reason to step in.

daveczrn
07-22-2008, 02:34 PM
glass is good for testing it... not good for putting it in your car. I would definatly recomend using some type of plastic container for automotive use.

Smith03Jetta
07-22-2008, 03:03 PM
There's a lot of you guys out there using glass jars. That's fine for testing but keep in mind that if your jars explode like some have lately, you don't want the glass in your eyes or skin. I recommend that once you learn a little bit, you should migrate to a stronger container. I did attempt to use a large glass container for one of my automobile tests but I quickly switched to something other than glass for my long term containers. The main reason why I switched was not safety. I had trouble building my flat plate arrays through the round neck of the jar. It was like building a ship in a bottle.

rmptr
07-22-2008, 03:29 PM
There are most definitely hazards involved in creating volatile gases within a confined vessel of any material.

On-Demand production will reduce risk potential and back-flash arrestor,
(bubbler) should keep risk to a minimum.

Best

scottyhho
07-22-2008, 09:15 PM
I used a 4 inch section of PVC pipe with a sealed cap at the bottom and a large plug on the top. I also have a bubbler, flash suppressor, kill switch and blow out valve. It keeps my wife happy!!!

HYDROTEKPRO
07-22-2008, 09:54 PM
The knee-jerk reaction to using a glass component under the hood, is of course a negative one. Given a good enough quality glass, and appropriate mounting and cushioning, safety bubbler, etc., it's really not too much of a problem, unless the person is accident-prone. I know some people using these glass, Water4Gas inspired systems with great success. They work great and people love them.

Now don't get me wrong, I DO NOT LIKE an unprofessional appearance that resembles a 6th grader's science project, especially under the hood of my car!

HOWEVER, we should not forget the mysterious death (covert operative murder by Big OIL many say) of Stanley Meyer back in the 90's. This was just before he began mass-production of retro-fit kits to convert cars from gas to 100% water for $1,500.00 a piece.

A personal friend of MINE, had a really nice electric car all patented, and he was progressing forward with his patented version, until he got that "visit". He told me government guys showed up, and told him he would be fined and go to prison if he did this. He was told "it's against the law"!

Companies like Water4Gas do this hydrogen economy (and every one of us) an incredible service, by making it safe for all of us, from the oppression and criminal tactics of Big Oil. They simply cannot send covert operatives after 250,000 individual Americans, that have purchased their E-Book, made their own hydrogen-booster for their car, and perhaps are even selling and installing systems for others. Let us not forget the very positive environmental impact this also makes, and the fact that corrupt politicians chose to ignore this critical factor in favor of getting campaign advertising money (and probably other favors), in exchange for looking the other way, or even authorizing actions against those who are only helping the entire scene. Now WE are among those who are only helping, even if we only reduce the emissions of a single vehicle. Double mileage = 1/2 emissions, right?

I probably would still be ignorant of all this new HHO stuff, if I hadn't bought their E-Book for $97.00. It's a colossal resource of info easily worth the price, easily. If it weren't for them, wouldn't you be looking over your shoulder sometimes, wondering if that car was following you?

stickittoopec
07-23-2008, 12:25 AM
That is a little pricey for that information. You can get better info for free. Free support and they all will tell you how dangerous this can be with glass.
Here on this site.
http://www.oupower.com/phpBB2/
http://waterfuelforall.com/forum/index.php?board=3.0

Do a search on youtube Here are a couple to start. If glass was used here someone would have been hurt.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igGCH8G3Mzk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okLOv5g2BVQ

Putting that kind of information out there will attract kids because it's cheap, and then someone is going to get hurt. He claims its safe on his site and there are plenty of people that will take him for his word because he is a company on the net and he has a web site. He could have just as easy put this stuff in PVC or ABS plastic and warn the uninformed of the danger of HHO.
With that device after driving a while and the water level gets low there will plenty of room for trouble. All it would take is a little static or someone with a cigarette in his hand trying to open the jar. If you are worried about the government getting involved then let's not give them a reason. A bunch of people getting hurt, is the perfect reason to outlaw this stuff. Remember in this country everyone is a victim no matter how stupid they are.

knee-jerk reaction I don't think so. Common sense yes.

bigapple
07-23-2008, 01:37 AM
i cant believe no one has commented on how easy they make it seem to get 50% increases because that was the first thing i noticed... they make it seem like that shitty mason jar and steel wire can really put out enough gas to give u a 50% increase... as mentioned in here by another person, it seems cheap and so people will try that and make a poorly designed container, instead of using the information given (if they buy the ebook) to build their own, more efficient generator... they make it seem much easier than it is... there r so many things to consider its just ridiculous to think it can be that easy... the concentration of the solution, the heat of the solution, the area of the plates, the materials used, the presence of a bubbler or flashback arrestor, the size of wires, the heat produced, etc. and i could go on for days... its just not as easy as they say... and having someone claim a 150% increase in mileage from making that mason jar is asking someone to come down on them so hard for being completely ignorant... u can also see how terrible the design is when people string together 4 or 5 of these things for any decent kind of output

ridelong
07-23-2008, 06:37 AM
I've been using glass jars for about 5 months. I think they are great.

They have to be mounted carefully, but they are heat proof, and can be internally inspected easily.

I have one in my truck (37.5% increase mpg), in my wife's car, put one in my friends car last night.

I get them from McMaster Carr, very high quality.

HomeGrown
07-23-2008, 07:39 AM
Regarding the original article that Stratous posted the link to, it carries absolutely zero credibility because they don't name names.


....Scientists say the idea is preposterous, with one saying the energy created would "not amount to a hill of beans."

Gimme a name here. WHAT scientists (indicating more than one) say this? Lemme guess.... scientists that work for a big oil company? What self-respecting scientist couldn't see the merit in harnessing the power of HHO? If they don't name names, I've gotta raise the BS flag on the entire article.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the merit of HHO, and you can quote me on that. ;)

BTW: you know how much gas can be generated from a hill of beans? :D

- Bill

Stratous
07-23-2008, 08:10 AM
Quite alot if were talking about my personal "gas" production factory....:eek:

airdude
07-23-2008, 10:40 AM
Regarding the original article that Stratous posted the link to, it carries absolutely zero credibility because they don't name names.



Gimme a name here. WHAT scientists (indicating more than one) say this? Lemme guess.... scientists that work for a big oil company? What self-respecting scientist couldn't see the merit in harnessing the power of HHO? If they don't name names, I've gotta raise the BS flag on the entire article.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the merit of HHO, and you can quote me on that. ;)

BTW: you know how much gas can be generated from a hill of beans? :D

- Bill


A hill of beans contains lots of potential power. Methane comes to mind. flaming fart power...

Smith03Jetta
07-23-2008, 10:59 AM
I've got 2 statements to make:

Rocket scientists would instantly see the merit of HHO.

A hill of beans would definitely produce a lot of gas.

porkchop
07-23-2008, 11:51 AM
Oil companies have all of us and the government by the gonads. It's an evil fairy tale.

HYDROTEKPRO
07-23-2008, 12:05 PM
Like I said, I do not like glass jars under the hood of MY car, especially when the kit looks like a 6th grader's science project.

BUT, companies like Water4Gas have informed so many people about HHO technology, they have made it safe for this entire HHO industry to grow.

BTW, their E-Books contain a ton of specific information. They explain exactly how much electrolyte to use, how to wire it up, where to get supplies, how to set-up and use the mason jar system safely, etc. They even list lots of companies and individuals selling HHO systems and components, for the people afraid to get their hands dirty!:D

These e-book companies contact and inform a ton of people who would otherwise not find out about supplemental hydrogen technologies except for maybe a negative and dishonest news report. Without these e-book companies, it would be too easy for the dirty threesome (Big Oil, corrupt and ignorant politicians, and the special interest media) to snuff out this new hydrogen economy, and continue the financial rape of motorists world-wide. We should consider that they are on our team, good guys like ourselves, on a mission to educate too many people for the dirty three-some.

If it weren't for a friend's referral to the Water4Gas website, I would still be among the ignorant, as far as HHO technology is concerned.

Our systems certainly are NOT encased in glass, but there are thousands of people out there that are very happy with the mason jars. They DO work, don't draw too many amps, and are very affordable to do-it-yourself. And those people are now educated about oxyhydrogen production under the hood, no matter what lies Big Oil, corrupt politicians, or special interest media dirty their own reputations with.

It seems we agree that there are much better electrolyzer casings to use instead of glass.

scottyhho
07-23-2008, 06:22 PM
The thing that bothers me the most is that on this forum, most people are here to share their idea (what works and what didn't) for FREE. All the information that is being discussed in that book has been talked about on this forum. I have learned TONS from everybodys experiments. It's really sad that people are just trying to get on the oil company band wagon by continuing to suck middle america dry. This technology (if done correctly) is an amazing thing that should be shared by everyone. If you feel the need to charge people for you information......Exon is taking applications

timetowinarace
07-24-2008, 01:32 PM
Want your moneys worth for an e-book?

http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/

Ch 10 covers vehicle systems. HHO being the majority of the subject. It includes many cell designes from simple Smacks booster to Stan Meyers with pictures, parts lists, and suppliers. It includes electrolysis theory.

Ch 12 covers some basic and somewhat advanced electronics, a subject very important to effeciency of hho generation.

61 patents are included. Not just referenced, included. Many are hydrogen related and not discussed elsewhere.

This book is over 1700 pages long and 20Mb to download.

It's free.

This forum isn't the only source of free information. Neither is the link I posted.

The negative report is being hammered on here by some that have not had success or are struggling with hho. The report is not completly accurate, but it is not completely wrong either.

timetowinarace
07-24-2008, 01:57 PM
I've got 2 statements to make:

Rocket scientists would instantly see the merit of HHO.

A hill of beans would definitely produce a lot of gas.

My father-inlaw(chemist, rocket scientist) developed the fuel in the solid rocket boosters for the space shuttle, (I know, lofty claim but true) he also raced cars for hobby. He never had hho on any of his cars. Hmmmmmm.

I'd ask him why but he passed away.