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cbr549
10-10-2009, 10:48 AM
Forgive me but I am at loss here.
The use of stainless steel as electrodes creates toxic waste.
The use of graphite as electrodes creates no toxic waste and still produces the hho.
So why perpetuate a device where the cost for disposal of the toxic waste it produces will negate any cost benefits of the hho it produces?
Forget stainless steel and concentrate on some type of graphite electrode.
Possibly graphite foam, graphite wool or perforated graphite plates!
I’ve tried off the shelf graphite gaskets which produced good gas.
Just a thought!

jerrygoldsmith
10-10-2009, 02:05 PM
Actually, this isn't the case. Please read this thread
http://www.hhoforums.com/showthread.php?t=5893

Most the people pushing this subject are the ones making money off of it, or getting themselves more attention because of it. I've seen a lot of people complain about SS then turn around and try to sell "special" Titanium plates or something like that. Riiiiight......

If graphite works for you, well then good for you. Use it. But SS is not any worse despite all the 'basement research'

In addition, higher quality SS uses Nickel or some other metal, not chromium.

cbr549
10-10-2009, 03:29 PM
Actually, this isn't the case. Please read this thread
http://www.hhoforums.com/showthread.php?t=5893

Most the people pushing this subject are the ones making money off of it, or getting themselves more attention because of it. I've seen a lot of people complain about SS then turn around and try to sell "special" Titanium plates or something like that. Riiiiight......

If graphite works for you, well then good for you. Use it. But SS is not any worse despite all the 'basement research'

In addition, higher quality SS uses Nickel or some other metal, not chromium.


I know you mean that in a nice way but…
Actually it is the case!
All stainless steel has a percentage of chromium!
It’s what gives it the stainless aspect!
For more steel info. “ http://www.ssina.com/faq/index.html#1”

Also, yes, a percentage of hexavalent chromium is produced during the hho electrolytic process of stainless steal.

Try not to go on just forum hearsay or believe all that you read, research these materials yourself! Just Google it and/or better yet, ask a chemistry professor!

And, LOL, no I do not sale graphite or any other electrode material.
I’m as poor as poor can be and I’m simply trying to come up with a responsible, non-polluting alternative!

After all isn’t that the best thing to do?

jerrygoldsmith
10-10-2009, 03:57 PM
Try not to go on just forum hearsay or believe all that you read, research these materials yourself! Just Google it and/or better yet, ask a chemistry professor!


I did about a week ago. My neighbor teaches over at the local university. He said that there is Chromium in a lot of SS, but the higher grades don't have it (which you are right, most of them seem to have at least some) but he also said there is no evidence of leeching out.



And, LOL, no I do not sale graphite or any other electrode material.
I’m as poor as poor can be and I’m simply trying to come up with a responsible, non-polluting alternative!

sorry dude, wasn't trying to accuse you of that! I was just pointing out that some of the hype on this HexChromate leakage has been mostly done by those trying to sell.

Though if you HAD good graphite for cheaper than the higher grade SS and it produced good gas..... I'd probably look at it :D


I'm skeptical. I've seen so much stuff on both sides, and very little actual testing. So if you want to use Graphite, more power to you. seriously.

cbr549
10-10-2009, 04:22 PM
[QUOTE=jerrygoldsmith;34774]I did about a week ago. My neighbor teaches over at the local university. He said that there is Chromium in a lot of SS, but the higher grades don't have it (which you are right, most of them seem to have at least some) but he also said there is no evidence of leeching out.
QUOTE]

Heres a thought, see if that neighbor would test a sample of your electrolyte for the Hexavalent Chromium.
Given the popularity of using SS, this could be of great benefit to all!

jerrygoldsmith
10-10-2009, 06:21 PM
Heres a thought, see if that neighbor would test a sample of your electrolyte for the Hexavalent Chromium.
Given the popularity of using SS, this could be of great benefit to all!

that.... is a darned good idea! I'll see if I can't talk him into it next time I see him!

lhazleton
10-12-2009, 08:50 PM
Contrary to popular belief, the use of ss plates does not create hexavalent chromium deposits. Any ss decay is caused by pushing the curent density above .05 amps per sq. in. of active surface. Nick (IM2L844) has done lots of research on this, as well as biggy boy. There is absolutely no scientific proof that this problem exists.

cbr549
10-15-2009, 05:16 PM
Contrary to popular belief, the use of ss plates does not create hexavalent chromium deposits. Any ss decay is caused by pushing the curent density above .05 amps per sq. in. of active surface. Nick (IM2L844) has done lots of research on this, as well as biggy boy. There is absolutely no scientific proof that this problem exists.

Well...Ok then, is there any scientific proof that hexavalent chromium deposits do not exist with the use of ss plates?

I challenge anyone to prove that it is not!

Just a thought but... if someone were to manufacture HHO generation units for profit with full knowledge of even the possiblity that said units produce hexavalent chromium waste material and... claimed otherwise, it could eventually lead to a legal mell of a hess!

My point is, why take that chance when there are alternatives?

korlj
10-15-2009, 09:19 PM
Well...Ok then, is there any scientific proof that hexavalent chromium deposits do not exist with the use of ss plates?

I challenge anyone to prove that it is not!

Just a thought but... if someone were to manufacture HHO generation units for profit with full knowledge of even the possiblity that said units produce hexavalent chromium waste material and... claimed otherwise, it could eventually lead to a legal mell of a hess!

My point is, why take that chance when there are alternatives?

Hey moron, Lack of evidence is not proof of your point. You say there is, someone else says there is no proof there is.
So you respond demanding proof that there ISN'T?!?!?

Well, I demand proof then, that Stainless Steel isn't derived from the horns of UNICORNS. BECAUSE I BELEIVE STAINLESS STEEL IS DERIVED FROM UNICORN HORNS, AND IF YOU CAN'T PROVE OTHERWISE IT SHOWS I'M RIGHT!

WOOOOOOT!

jerrygoldsmith
10-16-2009, 09:05 AM
Hey moron, Lack of evidence is not proof of your point. You say there is, someone else says there is no proof there is.
So you respond demanding proof that there ISN'T?!?!?

Well, I demand proof then, that Stainless Steel isn't derived from the horns of UNICORNS. BECAUSE I BELEIVE STAINLESS STEEL IS DERIVED FROM UNICORN HORNS, AND IF YOU CAN'T PROVE OTHERWISE IT SHOWS I'M RIGHT!

WOOOOOOT!

Why is it whenever you show up, you say something rude and mean?

Helz_McFugly
10-16-2009, 11:02 AM
NO NO, SS can be made from the extract of Bridge troll boils. Disprove this and Ill give you my kingdom. can you disprove there is a God, can you disprove there are unicorns. NO! You MUST show proof that there is a God or unicorns and by doing that you disprove that there isnt one. So who ever says SS produces HC in electrolysis must show proof of such a claim, AND THERE IS NONE. not leave it to be disproved. its not possable to disprove something thats not really there to prove exists. im with korlj on this one.

I think some one needs a song, LOL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSvHpvHFXU0
Thats where your proof comes from. I hope this song plays in your head when ever you watch a Smack video. and it WILL NOW !!!!!

lhazleton
10-16-2009, 11:57 AM
LOL ...Damn, Helz...........You and that fruitloop song!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm afraid that soon, everytime I see your avatar, that crap's gonna pop into my head!

Helz_McFugly
10-16-2009, 01:40 PM
NO man, this one should pop into your head when you see my avitar.
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/7kGPhpvqtOc&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/7kGPhpvqtOc&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

lhazleton
10-16-2009, 06:12 PM
You are, without a doubt, the sickest SOB I've ever met. I mean that in a good way, of course! I didn't realize that Dustin did these kind of vids., also. I figured he just did his
'I am the Lord & Master of HHO' video's.

cbr549
10-16-2009, 09:31 PM
Hey moron, Lack of evidence is not proof of your point. You say there is, someone else says there is no proof there is.
So you respond demanding proof that there ISN'T?!?!?

Well, I demand proof then, that Stainless Steel isn't derived from the horns of UNICORNS. BECAUSE I BELEIVE STAINLESS STEEL IS DERIVED FROM UNICORN HORNS, AND IF YOU CAN'T PROVE OTHERWISE IT SHOWS I'M RIGHT!

WOOOOOOT!

Never said it was proof of any point.
Never demanded anything.
Simply suggested a challenge.

Hey korlj.... no need to be this way in an attempt to distract others from the real question! Also... childish and rude name calling is an obvious sign of a weak mind!
I know it's hard for you to stay focused after huffin all that hex chrome but try!
Now pay attention! Derrrrrrrrr!

The question is, "Does using SS plates to produce HHO also produce hexavalent chromium as a byproduct?"
There is a very simple solution, take some used electrolyte to a lab and have it analyzed!

Or... (this is for those so adamant and so childishly rude)
If your that damn sure and you don't want to wait for the results... then put two tablespoons of your used electrolyte into a gallon jug of spring water and DRINK IT! It can't hurt what you don't have!

Especially korlj and the self called Mentor!

Helz_McFugly
10-17-2009, 12:03 AM
Mentor is stuck to us after 100 posts. so DOH!
cant drink KOH. fresh or used.
if you take a sample to a lab, you would also have to take a sample of the same mixture as it were before being used so there are no false positives, as there where in the purple litmus powder test. the fact remains, ther is no proof that shows HC is leached out of SS when used in electrolysis in an electolyte solution. when there is documented proof. then Ill jsut start using sugar to nuetralize it. You do know how easy it is to nuetralize HC dont you?
VERY VERY easy. SO even if by chance someone does prove it, it is VERY VERY simple to nuetralize HC. and the only disadvantage to having it in your water is desposing of it. it doesnt hurt your engine, its not hurting the air, you know all that SS stuff you see in hospitals, well when its being cut or welded, guess whats being released into the air, thats right HC. Im going to stick with SS just because its cheaper, isnt that why we are doing this? why pay $600 for a 3 plate e-lyzer, you could build for $50 with SS, just because someone says it creates carcinogens. but HC is easy to nuetralize and harmfull if treated right. Thats if its in there. and if you treat your used e-lytes as if they had it in there. wheres the harm?

Buster
10-17-2009, 03:37 AM
Hey Heltz, are you saying that sugar actually neutralizes HC?
Do you have any proof....(sorry, lol)..I mean info or links on this please?

Something else.....my data sheet is showing that Titanium compatibility with KOH as 'severe, do not use', and Titanium with Sodium Hydroxide as only OK up to 20% dilution, but non compatible over this strength of mix.

jerrygoldsmith
10-17-2009, 10:35 AM
Hey Heltz, are you saying that sugar actually neutralizes HC?

*sings*
a spoonfull of sugar makes the chromium go down....

Helz_McFugly
10-17-2009, 03:18 PM
Dont tell me you havent seen "Erin Brockovich". that movie was based on HC and is a true story. it doesnt tell about the nuetralization in the movie but that is what they did to nuetralize all the HC. EVEN SMACK acknowledges this method. He told me "I'm well aware of how to nuetralize HC" when i explained to him how to do it. he said, "why make it in the first place". lol I said "$".

http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/duncan/17578/

Humanoid_1
01-19-2010, 02:52 AM
and also acording to OSHA Fact Sheet:

-irratation to the eyes and skin if hexavalent chromium contacts these organs in high concentrations



Seems you have to Try to hurt yourself with this stuff. Love the (from Technology Review):

Sugar converts the toxic chromium into the naturally occurring and more stable chromium III--a nutrient necessary for life.

Llew2_1
01-19-2010, 08:28 AM
I have 40 hours up bench testing my SS 316, they show no signs of deteriation. It absorbs 30volt 100 amp continious. The plates in my HOD are 80 sq inches each, 14 of them. Making 10 LPM.
Llew

rboos
01-19-2010, 09:58 AM
Hi All,

I am pretty new at this...

I read that if the electrical conductivity of Copper (Cu) was considered 100%, Stainless stell would be around 3.5%... so why the modern dry cells are using SS? Is it for electrode durability, or we don't want too much electrical conductivity?

My guess would be durability of SS x Cu.

Ah, what about Titanium (electrical conductivity around 3.1%) similar to SS... And what about the Ni-Ti alloy?

Last question! Can we use aluminum electrodes?

Maybe in some of the electrodes above the components would act as electrolyzers..

Sorry for the question flood!

Rod.
(Bulding my 1st dry cell, SS plates + Ni-Ti filaments)

hhonewbie
01-19-2010, 01:00 PM
Hi All,

I am pretty new at this...

I read that if the electrical conductivity of Copper (Cu) was considered 100%, Stainless stell would be around 3.5%... so why the modern dry cells are using SS? Is it for electrode durability, or we don't want too much electrical conductivity?

My guess would be durability of SS x Cu.

Ah, what about Titanium (electrical conductivity around 3.1%) similar to SS... And what about the Ni-Ti alloy?

Last question! Can we use aluminum electrodes?

Maybe in some of the electrodes above the components would act as electrolyzers..

Sorry for the question flood!

Rod.
(Bulding my 1st dry cell, SS plates + Ni-Ti filaments)
Answer: SS for durability & affordability

Humanoid_1
01-19-2010, 04:24 PM
Ok here we go, some Electrical Resistivity info for you guys:
(did write conductivity originally)

Cu
ohm-cm 0.00000170
ohm-cir-mil/ft 10.2
ohm-in 6.69e-7
ohm-m 1.70e-8
ohm-mm²/m 0.0170

Ti
ohm-cm 0.0000554
ohm-cir-mil/ft 333
ohm-in 0.0000218
ohm-m 5.54e-7
ohm-mm²/m 0.554

304L
0.0000720 ohm-cm
ohm-cir-mil/ft 433
ohm-in 0.0000283
ohm-m 7.20e-7
ohm-mm²/m 0.720

316 or 316L as same
ohm-cm 0.0000740
ohm-cir-mil/ft 445
ohm-in 0.0000291
ohm-m 7.40e-7
ohm-mm²/m 0.740

Extruded Graphite
ohm-cm 0.000750
ohm-cir-mil/ft 4510
ohm-in 0.000295
ohm-m 0.00000750
ohm-mm²/m 7.50


Should answer a few questions :D

rboos
01-20-2010, 07:31 AM
Hmm... those are condutivity values, or resistivity? the copper is lower in value than the SS... shouldn't be the opposite?

Another idea, just for the mad scientists:

what about this process of marking (electro-engraving?? :confused: ) the SS with a "tatoo" of graphite... we could apply a 'inverted V' pattern to 'guide' the bubbles, or just a set of 'straight vertical lines' to guide them... with graphite agains the SS plates?

It could make the total area bigger, I found a site with some examples:

Graphite engraved SS examples (artistic) (http://fenixlaser.com/index.php?option=com_zoom&Itemid=26&catid=7)

Just an idea..

Humanoid_1
01-20-2010, 07:33 AM
Sorry, my mistake - was Rather late last night.

they are the Electrical Resistivity values.

Will edit my post too.