PDA

View Full Version : Wiring My dry cell



H20 to HHO
02-28-2010, 02:09 PM
i currently have a 21 plate 4x6 Dry cell... i am using a +nnnn-nnnn+nnnn-nnnn+ setup. Most of the cells i ahve seen are opposite and use a -nnnn+nnnn-nnnn+nnnn- setup. I am wondering if i am doing anything wrong running my cell wile the positives on the outside, fairly new at this, Power source is a Deep cycle marine battery, using Crystal heat drain opener (40% NaOH) as an electrolyte until i can get some KoH.

Also, with the wiring setup i am using i get more production then the -nnnn+nnnn-nnnn+nnnn-

My production is approx 1LPM, Also not sure what i am doing wrong!

Any help is greatly appreciated,
Thanks

hhoconnection
02-28-2010, 04:21 PM
It really should not matter whether you have negatives or positives on the outside, at least I have never noticed a difference. You still have the same amount of plate surfaces facing each other for a total of four cells. Unless I'm missing something here.

lhazleton
02-28-2010, 05:06 PM
You'd be better off changing your configuration. 4 bipolar's per stack makes a steam machine. While you're waiting for the KOH to arrive, why not take it apart and make it 19 plates / 18 cells in 3 stacks (-NNNNN+NNNNN-NNNNN+)?
When you get the KOH, make it a 28% mix. By running 5 bipolar plates per stack, it will draw less amperage, put out more gas/less steam, and run cooler.
I personally run 6 bipolar's per stack. My new reactor is 6x9 with 14/2.
That's (-NNNNNN+NNNNNN-). With a 28%KOH E/lyte (roughly 2lbs. per 3/4gal.),
I'm getting 2.4LPN @ 26 amps. without steam with a 7.21MMW and only 0.24 current density (A/sq.in.).
The plates (after an hour) stay at about 120F & the gas is 70F.

Lee

H20 to HHO
03-01-2010, 01:04 AM
You'd be better off changing your configuration. 4 bipolar's per stack makes a steam machine. While you're waiting for the KOH to arrive, why not take it apart and make it 19 plates / 18 cells in 3 stacks (-NNNNN+NNNNN-NNNNN+)?
When you get the KOH, make it a 28% mix. By running 5 bipolar plates per stack, it will draw less amperage, put out more gas/less steam, and run cooler.
I personally run 6 bipolar's per stack. My new reactor is 6x9 with 14/2.
That's (-NNNNNN+NNNNNN-). With a 28%KOH E/lyte (roughly 2lbs. per 3/4gal.),
I'm getting 2.4LPN @ 26 amps. without steam with a 7.21MMW and only 0.24 current density (A/sq.in.).
The plates (after an hour) stay at about 120F & the gas is 70F.

Lee

Hey lee, i took my cell apart tonight and decided to try the (-NNNNN+NNNNN-NNNNN+) design.. when i hooked my cell up it made a few gas bubbles out the Water Input! hose.. Not sure whats going on, Fully charged battery

Any help appreciated!

lhazleton
03-01-2010, 09:37 AM
The additional bipolar plates will require a higher concentration e/lyte mix
to produce. Try adding more of your drain cleaner.
When you get your KOH, be sure to totally clean the plates well with Acetone before changing over. Be sure to wear rubber gloves. Fingerprints on the plates can hamper production. Also, KOH burns like hell. Trust me, I know:D

H20 to HHO
03-01-2010, 09:38 PM
Well i added More e-lite and still only about half tyhe ammount of production as before.

Not sure whats wrong!:eek:

H20 to HHO
03-02-2010, 12:37 AM
Ok, so i went with a -NNNN+NNNN-NNNN+ design, the 5n design, and nothing puts out as much gas as my Old -nnnn+nnnn-nnnn+nnnn-, witch was doing about 1 LPM, My amp gauge says im pulling about 14-15 amps, Witch seems strange and with all the designs i still seem to have alot of steam.

Im pretty confused because alot of people claim to be able to do 3 LPM on a 21 plate cell, and i dont think KoH would add a whole 2 LPM? But im not sure, if someone could confirm on that

i Just want to figure out what i am doing wrong..
My plates are from http://www.greenfuelh2o.com/product_p/pl4x6ss.htm,

Thanks again

cabrera
03-10-2010, 05:38 PM
You'd be better off changing your configuration. 4 bipolar's per stack makes a steam machine.

Lee that's not exactly true. You've seen the my little
21 plate -NNNN+NNNN-NNNN+NNNN- cell in action. it made 2 lpm at 11volts on a dying battery with very little steam ( I say very little because all cells make steam) You saw the vid. I'm expecting more at 13.5 volts

I think the fix is in the preparation of the plates.
My cell plates were cross hatch and rotary sanded cleaned in an Ultrasonic cleaner at 40,000 Hz leaving them microscopically clean. The plates were sealed between high temperature 1/16" thick EPDM gaskets. They are held in place with Zinc plated bolts.

I am using a 28% KOH mix (2 lbs to 3/4 gal)

linkintiger
03-10-2010, 08:04 PM
steam machine with 4N? i have +nnnn-nnnn+ and my gas is pretty dry i can put into balloon and balloon will go up and there is almost no water inside the balloon. my plates are 6x6

BeaverRat
03-10-2010, 10:04 PM
You are better off with 5N's. It is more efficent.

Owen_
03-10-2010, 10:42 PM
or 8 N plates...

BeaverRat
03-11-2010, 01:58 AM
or 8 N plates...

I don't think you would draw any amps with 8!

H20 to HHO
03-14-2010, 03:43 AM
Well.... My KoH finally arrived finally..
I read that 2 lbs to 3/4 a gallon was about 28%, and the correct ammount so i added it in, reconfiged my cell to 5n 3. and my results were
25-28% elyte
20.6 Amps draw
and it took 1m 21s to make 1L

Then i fired together the 4n4 setup,
it ran at 65-70 amps,
25-28% elyte
and did about 3 LPM, or 19 sec for 1L..

Seems like i should allmost dilute my electrolyte little by little uintill my amps drop but i get the same production?:confused:
70 seems a bit overkill..

Both are running from a 12v deep cycle marine battery still with a 10 amp charger Running, totaling arround 14 volts.. seems to run the same with 12

if anyone can confirm with me about diluting, it would be great!

Thanks!

cabrera
03-14-2010, 06:07 AM
Well.... My KoH finally arrived finally..
I read that 2 lbs to 3/4 a gallon was about 28%, and the correct ammount so i added it in, reconfiged my cell to 5n 3. and my results were
25-28% elyte
20.6 Amps draw
and it took 1m 21s to make 1L

Then i fired together the 4n4 setup,
it ran at 65-70 amps,
25-28% elyte
and did about 3 LPM, or 19 sec for 1L..

Seems like i should allmost dilute my electrolyte little by little uintill my amps drop but i get the same production?:confused:
70 seems a bit overkill..

Both are running from a 12v deep cycle marine battery still with a 10 amp charger Running, totaling arround 14 volts.. seems to run the same with 12

if anyone can confirm with me about diluting, it would be great!

Thanks!

To control your draw, install a PWM (pulse width modulator) between the power supply & the cell. The 28% mix is good for cold weather as it does not freeze. You are right, 70 amp is way too much unless you have on big alternator.

H20 to HHO
03-14-2010, 11:38 AM
Well i live in sunny southern cali, never gets cold here, Still stick with 28%?

rcflyn
03-14-2010, 11:42 AM
That seems to be a debatable topic.
But, I for one, If living in an area where freezing wasn't an issue, I would NOT Use a 28% concentration. I would dilute it down to the point where it's drawing the amperage you are aiming for.

H20 to HHO
03-14-2010, 01:16 PM
Im going to try to dilute my KoH, Since a PWM is expensive$$

Also i seem to getn alot of steam does anyone have a quick fix idea for that? i have seen a few designs.. and hve tried the scrub pad design with no results..

lhazleton
03-14-2010, 05:31 PM
If you're getting steam, add more bi-polar plates. This will also lower your amperage draw.

hhoconnection
03-14-2010, 06:59 PM
Well i live in sunny southern cali, never gets cold here, Still stick with 28%?

H2O to HHO: what part of So Cal are you from? I live in Simi Valley.

H20 to HHO
03-14-2010, 10:52 PM
i live in Huntington beach, Orange county :)

Also... diluted my KoH down to 18% and i still got the same LPM with about 60 amps.... im going to take another hit at it, and see how far i can bring the amps down

mike915
07-30-2010, 05:41 PM
Lee that's not exactly true. You've seen the my little
21 plate -NNNN+NNNN-NNNN+NNNN- cell in action. it made 2 lpm at 11volts on a dying battery with very little steam ( I say very little because all cells make steam) You saw the vid. I'm expecting more at 13.5 volts

I think the fix is in the preparation of the plates.
My cell plates were cross hatch and rotary sanded cleaned in an Ultrasonic cleaner at 40,000 Hz leaving them microscopically clean. The plates were sealed between high temperature 1/16" thick EPDM gaskets. They are held in place with Zinc plated bolts.

I am using a 28% KOH mix (2 lbs to 3/4 gal)
Cross hatched plates are more efective??
Should i cross hatch all the plates or only the + and -
Thanks

lhazleton
07-30-2010, 08:48 PM
Mike,
Cross-hatching adds more surface area, so do it to all of your plates.
The deeper the grooves, the more additional area you create. Just be sure to keep it kinda smooth where the gaskets will mate.

mike915
08-01-2010, 06:03 PM
Mike,
Cross-hatching adds more surface area, so do it to all of your plates.
The deeper the grooves, the more additional area you create. Just be sure to keep it kinda smooth where the gaskets will mate.

But this didn't affect on warming or something negative??

lhazleton
08-01-2010, 06:10 PM
Not at all. It merely adds surface area. Absolutely no ill effects.

mike915
08-01-2010, 07:13 PM
Not at all. It merely adds surface area. Absolutely no ill effects.

OK, thanks for the info

sokeway
11-28-2010, 08:08 AM
Your connection is correct.

The brothers said above also, You are better off with 5N's. It is more efficent., But the voltage you consider your