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redrat100
02-07-2011, 07:49 PM
It's been a while since I've posted. Life happens between building and testing new cell designs. I installed a Volo FS-2 HHO in my '96 Jetta this past weekend. It went in smoothly. One of the easiest things I have ever put in a car. I wanted to put a Volo chip in before I put my new cell in to answer a question that has been bothering me: Are some folks getting mpg gains because of the tweaks to their ecu and thinking that the gain is because of their cell? I searched the forums but could not find an answer. My plan is to run the car on the Volo alone without a hho cell and record mileage for a few months. Then install my new cell, reset the chip and run for a few more months combined to see if there is a difference. Stock my Jetta gets 29 mpg.

astrocady
02-08-2011, 07:35 AM
Sounds like a good test. I am also testing a volo chip on my wife's 205 KIA Spectra w/2.0L engine. I installed the hho system and the chip at the same time. I know HHO works, so I didn't feel the need to test the chip separately. I'm on my first tank full after the 150 mile calibration, so in another week of so I'll have my first results.

If I don't get the results I'm after, I'm going to try adding an EFFIE in addition to the volo and see what can be gained. Final test will be to unhook the volo and see what I can get with the EFFIE alone.

When I start getting results, I'll start a new thread to report finding.

Good luck with your test, looking forward to seeing your results!

Steve

koya1893
02-08-2011, 09:31 AM
Astro,

I did that experiment with the Volo and an EFIE installed on the 2005 Hoda Pilot. It was not a good experiment, CEL came on with multiple codes, until I removed the Volo. with the Volo installed by itself, the extra power was experienced but no MPG gain, it was not until it ran just the EFIE before the gain was noticed.

redrat100
02-08-2011, 04:02 PM
I'm about 2/3 through my first tank fill up. Maybe around 200 miles or so. So far it seems to be working normally. The Volo's lights blink every now and then and the check engine light has not come on. So far, so good...

astrocady
02-09-2011, 08:00 AM
Astro,

I did that experiment with the Volo and an EFIE installed on the 2005 Hoda Pilot. It was not a good experiment, CEL came on with multiple codes, until I removed the Volo. with the Volo installed by itself, the extra power was experienced but no MPG gain, it was not until it ran just the EFIE before the gain was noticed.

That's good to know, Ben. I will probably still try it if the volo by itself doesn't work, only because I would be putting an EFFIE on anyway, so the only real difference would be when I disconnect the volo. I'm sure you couldn't add much trim to the effie, but MAYBE just a little. The Honda computer system is a lot more sophisticated that on my little KIA, so who know what will happen.

Steve

redrat100
02-12-2011, 07:27 PM
Since I put the Volo on, we have driven 671 miles and filled up three times. It's disappointing to report but my mileage has decreased about 12%. The one thing I can do is to reset the chip again and see if things improve.

chevymike
02-14-2011, 04:10 AM
Since I put the Volo on, we have driven 671 miles and filled up three times. It's disappointing to report but my mileage has decreased about 12%. The one thing I can do is to reset the chip again and see if things improve.

hmm yes what the people don't tell you about the voltage tricks esp on the o2 sensors is that your air fuel ratio is not controlled entirely by o2 sensors (I'm guessing this is an OBDII car). The problem is when the computer senses the o2 going wack it falls back to the base tables which are programmed to give a very safe rich fuel ratio for the engine in case something has failed...usually something like fuel x rpm tables, and respective spark vs rpm or something along those lines. Some MAF cars may fall back to a speed density only -> meaning MAP sensor type tune. MAP cars of course have to fall back to base tables, but there are many different tunes out there for different cars. Most I've seen just fall back to base fuel/spark tables without regulation by sensors, its called limp mode. You get awful mileage, and you were running your car in limp mode if I had to guess. Doesn't hurt anything but...

edit, better explanation - as your computer relearns and reprograms itself to the correct air fuel ratio in normal driving over time, it stores the AFR information in a frequency x MAF (if you have MAF sensor), and MAP x rpm table. This is what I mean when it "falls back" to MAP tune or stock tables or VE table or speed density, it all means the same thing. Your computer can guess without an o2 sensor using the MAP sensor, how much fuel should be injected (it usually runs richer here). If there is something wrong with the MAP sensor, it will fall back to a MAP x RPM table and inject even richer based on the rpm alone (with variables like throttle, etc). Maybe this will help explain. All the ecm needs to inject near an estimated 14.7 stoich ratio is RPM, meaning the engine just needs to be running. Also meaning these voltage things aren't going to work for the most part unless maybe you have an older vehicle pre OBDII at least.

waterbugs
02-15-2011, 02:45 PM
I notice if I reset my volo chip than it will give me better milliage and will go be to normal again so I have to reset it again to get the gain again. It give out about 15% gain.

chevymike
02-15-2011, 04:03 PM
I notice if I reset my volo chip than it will give me better milliage and will go be to normal again so I have to reset it again to get the gain again. It give out about 15% gain.

Yes that makes sense. is it wired in your car or underneath somewhere? (... can you get to it easily to reset it?)

This is sort of a round about way of getting there, I believe with a tune there could be better and more consistent results. Have you tried calling around any local tuning shops to see if there's a way to lean out the fuel on high octane for not too much? Or maybe try calling a mail order tune place and seeing how much a 'mileage' tune would be. Let me know if you try going this route there may be some options that could help decrease detonation on pre-ignition with a lean tune while running a bit leaner on HHO so the computer doesnt retard timing and you lose efficiency.

If tuning isn't an option or something you're not interested in, you may try calling a big spark plug company to find a plug that's one step hotter than stock for your car/engine, this would be the cheapest way to burn more efficiently along with your setup, plugs are like 3$ a piece. Hotter plugs keeps heat in the cylinder so don't have a lead foot with it ;). Talk to them and ask them how much hotter range you could go while running it a bit leaner, they might tell you not to go hotter but..... edit - before you ask them how much hotter you could go running leaner, get the part # for a plug one step hotter than stock.

I understand the merit in the HHO, I'm not saying these voltage regulators don't trick the ECM, but it could be done more efficiently for likely the same or just a bit more $.

redrat100
03-04-2011, 12:44 PM
So I reset the chip. This time, just like the instructions say, I waited until the engine was completely warmed up. They want the ECU to be in open loop. Before it was in closed loop. Thus the low mileage. This time I put 1003 miles on it and got about a 2.38% average increase in mpg. Combined city/highway driving with multiple drivers and habits. Not as big of an increase as I was hoping for but here is the kicker:
I also did a smog check to look for any differences in emissions. (yes, I really do have over 250k miles on a Jetta)
DATE MILEAGE RPM CO2 O2 HC CO
baseline 6/23/2010 237026 906 14.4 0.5 15 0.02
2517 14.7 0.1 28 0.14
Volo 3/4/2011 255099 910 13.5 2.1 0 0
2450 14.6 0.5 0 0
Every emission improved except O2. Especially the Hydrocarbon and Carbon. This tells me that the Volo chip is indeed re-mapping the ECU to lean out the mixture. And no check engine light. The tech was very surprised to see such a clean, high mileage engine. He also said that if he "didn't see" the chip it would pass the physical exam of the smog test. I stashed my chip in the ashtray. Otherwise it would need a CARB sticker.

Now, once I get my cell working right I want to repeat these tests with the HHO in addition to the Volo chip.

redrat100
03-05-2011, 07:10 AM
The smog comparison looked fine while editing but messed up when I posted. Here is a jpeg that is easier to look at.