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borescopeit
03-28-2011, 08:53 AM
http://smarthho.org/images/2011-02-20_08-32-49_829_small.jpg

A little bit about my Dry Cell setup:
2 sections totaling 66 plates (#18 316L 10" * 12") divided into 8 stacks:
+7N-7N+7N-7N+ | +7N-7N+7N-7N+
1/16" EPDM 55-65 durometer gaskets with 3/4" width on perimeter.
Working area of each plate is 8.5"* 10.5" = 89.25 sq.in.
Theoretical max. power consumption limit: 89.25 sq.in. * 0.5A * 8 stacks = 357A
Voltage source: 220A Delco Heavy Duty Alternator outputs 14.2V to the Dry Cell.
Wiring: 10' #1 welding cable wired through 250A fuse, with inline 35 Farad BOSS CAP35 Super Capacitor, 300A HD solenoid relay, from there distribution through #4 OFC wires to each stack.
E-Lyte: 4 gal. of distilled water from Walmart @ 21% KOH Concentration.
Ports: 2 x 3/8 barbed 1/4" NPT brass fittings (inlet), 3 x 3/8 barbed 1/4" NPT brass fittings (outlet).
Filters: 1 x inline Defoamer / sediment filter, Wet filter, Dry filter.
Sidewalls: 3 x 1" * 11.5" * 13.5" Polypropylene sheets.
Bolting: 3/8" Anodized metal rods with compression springs.

In progress:

MECHANICAL:
E-Lyte cooling system,
Continuous duty 3.3 gal pump
Flashback arrestor
Adjustable overpressure release valve
Vacuum valve
check valves

ELECTRICAL:
Full cell control automation with .NETMF microcontroller
600A n-Channel PFETs array for PWM control
4 x temperature sensors
current sensor
battery voltage sensing (for automatic power up/down)
Barometric pressure / temperature sensor = altitude calculation
approximation of HHO productivity
gas leakage sensor
a hack of a lot more features...
+ Electronic GAS MASS FLOW METER!!!

CURRENT PRODUCTIVITY DATA:

LPM - 5.50
MMW - 4.84
Normalized mL -5409.29
Normalized LPM - 5.41
Normalized MMW - 4.76
Faraday Maximum Hydrogen - 5027.46
Faraday Maximum Oxygen - 2513.73
Faraday Maximum HHO - 7541.19
Faraday Maximum LPM - 7.54
Faraday Maximum MMW - 6.64
Voltage Per Cell - 1.75
Amps Per Cell - 10.00
Ohms Per Cell - 0.17
Current Density A/sq in - 0.1120
Current Efficiency - 72.93%
Voltage Efficiency - 84.68%

borescopeit
03-28-2011, 09:01 AM
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Anybody already figured out how to make best FOAM suppressant for BIG HHO Dry Cell?! If not, then I did and I am very pleased with it.

It both suppresses all foam coming out from my big cell, and filters electrolyte at 5 micron rate!

Mainly, the FOAM is a sign of dirty cell/electrolyte. While I was conditioning my cell for about 100 hours I had a lot of crap coming out of it. After reassembling the cell and putting new e-lyte in the foam formation dropped for about 90%!

Take look at this YouTube video and tell me what you think! I use it on my cell for 2 weeks already and it never failed me, though I am scheduling to change the filter cartridge every 3-4 weeks periodically. The cartridge in the filter is a special one, and can be found at Menards for about $6 a piece.

Comment regarding DeFoamer solutions: I tried two of them, and all these solutions do not withstand high temperatures along with the KOH. The Solutions I tried are "Defoamer by HTH SPA" from Walmart, and "Defoamer by Southern AG" bough on eBay. First one is complete BS, second one works way better but has to be replenished. The problem with replenishing the Defoamer solutions is that when it breaks down it forms white silicone flakes that gather all micro particles together and then are prone to get stuck between the plates making very conductive spots there and as a result these flakes conduct more electricity through them and kill plates surface right there! My advise, Do not use any Defoamer solutions, Just go with a filter I integrated into my cell. It cost me around $50 with the fittings and mounting bracket, but it is worth of it!

borescopeit
03-28-2011, 05:08 PM
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Testing my HHO Dry Cell In Real Conditions.
Draw of 115 AMP @ 14V in an idling semi truck with 220 AMP alternator.
Having 8 stacks with 7 neutral plates = 66 plates (10"x12"). Outputing minimum as 6 LPM or even higher.

I want to buy digital MASS GAS FLOW METER and measure real HHO output with certified measurement device.

I have a flaw in my design yet - under pressure (20-30 psi) I get a leak between the gaskets when the pump cycles, my distribution rods melted my polypropylene side walls under a load of 150 AMP yesterday. That is probably because I used SS 1/4" threaded rods to distribute the electricity across the cell (they do not oxidize but resistance on these SS rods is huge). So I am thinking on replacing the rods with black metal material for now. In another cell design I will bolt the connections to the plates to get better conductivity and heat loss through th? contacts.

borescopeit
04-02-2011, 12:29 PM
Hello again,
would like to post first test results of my cell.

Running right off cold start:
20 seconds for the system to pressurize in order to open check valve after bubbler. Pressure in the system does not go over 2 PSI.

In 9 seconds got 1.1 liter bottle of cold gas (temp. about 25 deg. celsius) @ 102 AMP, 13.8 V. Had to remove flashback protector since it creates additional pressure in the system and production drops for about 20%.

Just removed the check valve and did the same test. Gas production started right off the start, no back pressure in the system, yielded the same LPM.

My LPM for now is 7.33 LPM @ 102 AMP. That is 1 LPM @ 13.91 AMP. MMW = 5.26.

I was not running all 66 plates, just 4 stacks with 5 neutrals. I find that 5 neutrals do yield better HHO production that 7 neutrals.

As I understand, the check valve and the flashback protector are a must, my next steps are the following (to over come the back pressure in the system and perhaps create vacuum conditions): install vacuum pump or manage very good venturi device to keep pressure in the system bellow 0 PSI in order to pull the gas out and keep the check valve / flashback protector open, thus pushing the system produce more HHO. Another thing on TODO list is to disassemble the reactor then:

media blast all the plates
seal all ports with Weld-On #16 or vinyl
remove resistance on electrical terminal on the polar plates

After doing that hope to get closer to 1 LPM @ 10 AMP.

astrocady
04-04-2011, 05:15 AM
Sounds like you're progressing nicely. A little back pressure, below 3 psi, shouldn't hurt anything and shouldn't affect production. I personally don't think you need a check valve, especially after the bubbler. After a while they seem to sick open anyway. A GOOD flashback arrester is needed, though, and should cause a drop in production.

borescopeit
04-04-2011, 07:21 AM
Sounds like you're progressing nicely. A little back pressure, below 3 psi, shouldn't hurt anything and shouldn't affect production. I personally don't think you need a check valve, especially after the bubbler. After a while they seem to sick open anyway. A GOOD flashback arrester is needed, though, and should cause a drop in production.

I agree that little psi does not hurt, but the flashback made up to open above 5psi is a major drawback. And with the system producing over 2-3 LPM custom made stuff is not reliable to use.

astrocady
04-05-2011, 06:03 AM
<snip>
A GOOD flashback arrester is needed, though, and should cause a drop in production.

Ooooops! I made a type! the above should have read...

A GOOD flashback arrestor is needed, though, and should NOT cause a drop in production.

These are the arrestors I use...
http://cgi.ebay.com/HHO-FLASHBACK-ARRESTOR-3-8-Hydrogen-Dry-Cell-pwm-/250797006484?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a64aa9e94

Steve

borescopeit
04-06-2011, 08:20 PM
Ooooops! I made a type! the above should have read...

A GOOD flashback arrestor is needed, though, and should NOT cause a drop in production.

These are the arrestors I use...
http://cgi.ebay.com/HHO-FLASHBACK-ARRESTOR-3-8-Hydrogen-Dry-Cell-pwm-/250797006484?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a64aa9e94

Steve

Steve,
I use the FA-130-P oxygen flashback arrestor by Western Industries, and that piece of crap creates enough of back pressure in my system. I will check into your source for the arrestors.

P.S. Steve, are you the same Steve as delvis11?

astrocady
04-07-2011, 05:03 AM
Steve,
<snip>

P.S. Steve, are you the same Steve as delvis11?

No, I have no idea who delvis11 is. I sometimes go by HydroSysSteve on other forums.

borescopeit
04-07-2011, 05:34 AM
No, I have no idea who delvis11 is. I sometimes go by HydroSysSteve on other forums.

I see that.

About the flashback arrestor I use: it is professional welder's flashback with check valve. Your flashback you use is just filed with bronze or some other kind of mesh type material. Right?

To protect Dry Cell with potential 20 LPM I need really fail safe arrestor.

myoldyourgold
04-07-2011, 06:39 AM
I see that. About the flashback arrestor I use: it is professional welder's flashback with check valve. Your flashback you use is just filed with bronze or some other kind of mesh type material. Right?



Victor I use the same flash back arrestor that Astro does and for 16 LPM I use 4 3/8 hoses each with a flashback on them for the longer run. The hoses go into a small manifold which has a 1 inch hose exiting it and going to the point of injection which is only about 6 inches away from this little plastic manifold. This is in a large farm tractor. In this case the small manifold could get damaged but didn't the couple times I had it tested. There isn't that much HHO in it because of it's size. By the way each hose has it's own bubbler. You have to have all four bubblers connected together at the bottom to keep pressure/level equal in all of them.

borescopeit
04-08-2011, 07:19 AM
Victor I use the same flash back arrestor that Astro does and for 16 LPM I use 4 3/8 hoses each with a flashback on them for the longer run. The hoses go into a small manifold which has a 1 inch hose exiting it and going to the point of injection which is only about 6 inches away from this little plastic manifold. This is in a large farm tractor. In this case the small manifold could get damaged but didn't the couple times I had it tested. There isn't that much HHO in it because of it's size. By the way each hose has it's own bubbler. You have to have all four bubblers connected together at the bottom to keep pressure/level equal in all of them.

Hello Carter,
did not hear from you for a long time.
So, as I understand these home brewed flashback protectors do not have any check valves and are filled with just aluminum or bronze wool. Right?

What do you think about water/methanol injection on top of HHO? Plus a set air ionizers?

myoldyourgold
04-08-2011, 07:40 AM
Hello Carter,
did not hear from you for a long time.
So, as I understand these home brewed flashback protectors do not have any check valves and are filled with just aluminum or bronze wool. Right?

What do you think about water/methanol injection on top of HHO? Plus a set air ionizers?

Victor I have been very busy.

I have not taken a flashback apart but will to see what they are made of. I do not think there is any bronze or aluminum in these. I do know they work well with very low back pressure. I have never had a backfire but have tested them and they do work well. I just have not spent the time to see how they are made. Maybe someone else has and can report before I get around to doing it.

I know water/methanol injection on top of HHO plus a set of ionizers works very well. It has to all be tuned to work well. The right amount of all the different stuff and the right timing of the diesel injection is required.

Drive safe my friend and look out for all those 4 wheel crazies out there.

astrocady
04-09-2011, 05:09 AM
Vistor,
The arrestors have one or more very fine plastic screens. They are not homemade. They come in different sizes for different throughput. Contace Bruce directly through the email seller link on the eBay add and ask him what you'd need for that much output.
Steve

pwteng
04-22-2011, 07:02 PM
i've used a brass fuel filter like the ones used on the old q jet carbs they look like a brass sponge and are designed to be explosion proof

pwteng
04-22-2011, 07:03 PM
and they dont create any back pressure

myoldyourgold
04-23-2011, 05:04 AM
i've used a brass fuel filter like the ones used on the old q jet carbs they look like a brass sponge and are designed to be explosion proof

Have you had your HHO analyzed to see if there is a change of state after going through brass? Have you tested it multiple times to see if it works more than one time etc.? Gasoline and HHO are to different animals. If there is no change in the gas state and if it has been tested numerous times, then it should work fine. It could be an alternative if the cost is not to much. I would like to see some tests before I would recommend it.

borescopeit
05-08-2011, 09:52 AM
<iframe width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/A81iG7pbQxY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

lhazleton
05-08-2011, 12:47 PM
One thing that may help your large plates would be placing a small piece of gasket material in the center of each cell when reassembling.

myoldyourgold
05-08-2011, 01:04 PM
Victor, there are some things to help prevent the warping. One is blast an X pattern on both sides before you start blasting (corner to corner). The other is hold the nozzle at a 45º angle and of course do not get to close. Keep the distance between the nozzle and the plate always the same. This is important not only for warpage but to have equal texture on the plates. It takes a little practice if you are not doing it everyday. I use a commercial powder coating place to do my blasting. They ruined a few plates before I was able to teach the guy what to do. Even now in a set of plates one or two are ever so slightly warped but have been able to straighten them to use them. If they are just slightly warped straighten them by bending them catercorner wise. Not on the square. You will find that when done right media blasting is without question the way to go. Long term testing still needs to be completed to see what happens over time.

borescopeit
05-08-2011, 09:28 PM
Victor, there are some things to help prevent the warping. One is blast an X pattern on both sides before you start blasting (corner to corner). The other is hold the nozzle at a 45º angle and of course do not get to close. Keep the distance between the nozzle and the plate always the same. This is important not only for warpage but to have equal texture on the plates. It takes a little practice if you are not doing it everyday. I use a commercial powder coating place to do my blasting. They ruined a few plates before I was able to teach the guy what to do. Even now in a set of plates one or two are ever so slightly warped but have been able to straighten them to use them. If they are just slightly warped straighten them by bending them catercorner wise. Not on the square. You will find that when done right media blasting is without question the way to go. Long term testing still needs to be completed to see what happens over time.

Carter,
I took all your advise as you told me before, was able to sandblast a few test plates, they look nice BWT still end up crooked. Since I already cross sanded half of the plates will end up with this method for this size.

Next size of the plates I will do 8" x 19" to accommodate two chambers in a horizontal (parallel) placement. the inside working area of the chambers will be 6" (H) x 8" (W) with 1" gasket boundary. With this smaller size I will definitely do the sandblasting (I got your idea and figured out how to sandblast).

Lee,
I will surely put some rubber pieces inside in between the plates to keep them from shorts.

myoldyourgold
05-23-2011, 06:54 PM
Victor for your bigger plates you need to turn down the pressure quite a lot and move the blaster slower across the plate. It takes some learning even for those that do this on a daily basis. It is a learned skill. I had to teach the guy who does my smaller plates and even then out of a hundred he warps 1 or 2 plates but I am able to get them straight enough with a very high powered heat gun and a very cold cloth. I put a damp cloth in the freezer and use it after it is stiff. Heat the highest spot of the warp with the heat gun (let it get as hot as possible and then put the frozen cloth on it. For small warps once is is sometimes enough on larger warps you need to do many more spots. This shrinks the plate back to something close to the original size. A little bending catercorner and you are good to go. The warpage usually takes place somewhere in the middle of the plate.

lemonhan
06-21-2011, 03:56 AM
it is great

DirtBikeATVHHO
06-27-2011, 12:40 AM
Hey Victor. You might remember me from The Truckers Report, my name is Manny129. I remember you cause you helped me block my EGR's on my 04' Volvo VNL (Same truck you have). I cant believe I found you here doing HHO. It was in september/august last year you helped me block the EGR's. I have the same truck and was wondering about HHO on my semi. Will it have an effect on the turbo in anyway?

Also nice job on the HHO, saw it on youtube looks great. Whats your MPG? Also think you can make a bigger cell and get a possible 10MPG's?

borescopeit
07-10-2011, 09:20 PM
Hey Victor. You might remember me from The Truckers Report, my name is Manny129. I remember you cause you helped me block my EGR's on my 04' Volvo VNL (Same truck you have). I cant believe I found you here doing HHO. It was in september/august last year you helped me block the EGR's. I have the same truck and was wondering about HHO on my semi. Will it have an effect on the turbo in anyway?

Also nice job on the HHO, saw it on youtube looks great. Whats your MPG? Also think you can make a bigger cell and get a possible 10MPG's?

Hello dude,
nice to meet you here! I refrain Trucker's Report forum after I was stoned by some "environmentalists" there.

Currently I am in a stage of redoing my dry cell into smaller unit but "unipolar" type. with 6 sections. It will be massive assembly with 6 e-lyte tanks each 1.5 gallons.

As of today, I do not have any positive results to report with HHO application, BWT I am not giving up and hope within one-two month have my new SMART HHO SYSTEM up and running.

Currently running with blocked EGR's the way I descibed at the other forum.
My Shell Rotella oil overlapped 100K miles on single oil change and I will run with it another 50K and then will think about changing it. I am diung oil tests at Speedco and the guys after they saw the test results did not believe me I am over 100K miles on the same oil!!! That is environmently friendly! Just with EGRs off I already saved about $2500 on a one year oil change!

My MPG averages to 7.1MPG US = 8.2 MPG IMP/CAN = 33.13 L/100km ;)

I have bought Water Methanol Injection System from AEM and going to install it next week. Will inject just straight RO water (no methanol ****). Hope to have extra 10% HP when hauling uphill and add extra fuel economy of about 5%.

One of my EGRs gives a fault code of harness short to ground, so when I get to fix it will definitely get my 10% extra fuel economy thing, since the freaking ECU is derating my engine.

If I have 8 MPG US with all that done, no HHO running will be already saving extra $1000 on my monthly fuel bill. Currently burning around 1500 US gallons in a month. :(

Will update you guys on my success.

DirtBikeATVHHO
07-18-2011, 11:04 PM
Hello dude,
nice to meet you here! I refrain Trucker's Report forum after I was stoned by some "environmentalists" there.

Currently I am in a stage of redoing my dry cell into smaller unit but "unipolar" type. with 6 sections. It will be massive assembly with 6 e-lyte tanks each 1.5 gallons.

As of today, I do not have any positive results to report with HHO application, BWT I am not giving up and hope within one-two month have my new SMART HHO SYSTEM up and running.

Currently running with blocked EGR's the way I descibed at the other forum.
My Shell Rotella oil overlapped 100K miles on single oil change and I will run with it another 50K and then will think about changing it. I am diung oil tests at Speedco and the guys after they saw the test results did not believe me I am over 100K miles on the same oil!!! That is environmently friendly! Just with EGRs off I already saved about $2500 on a one year oil change!

My MPG averages to 7.1MPG US = 8.2 MPG IMP/CAN = 33.13 L/100km ;)

I have bought Water Methanol Injection System from AEM and going to install it next week. Will inject just straight RO water (no methanol ****). Hope to have extra 10% HP when hauling uphill and add extra fuel economy of about 5%.

One of my EGRs gives a fault code of harness short to ground, so when I get to fix it will definitely get my 10% extra fuel economy thing, since the freaking ECU is derating my engine.

If I have 8 MPG US with all that done, no HHO running will be already saving extra $1000 on my monthly fuel bill. Currently burning around 1500 US gallons in a month. :(

Will update you guys on my success.

Yea, I have a bunch of EGR codes on mine. But I noticed a loss in power, maybe its screwing with the ecu?

I might buy a couple of these http://www.aliexpress.com/product-fm/334099761-21-Plates-316L-Supper-HHO-Dry-Cell-wholesalers.html and create my own system. But what you mean by Smart System? Computer controlled?

How much LPM where you averaging?

borescopeit
07-19-2011, 07:09 PM
What EGR codes are you getting exactly?

DirtBikeATVHHO
07-21-2011, 04:31 AM
I cannot remember off the top of my head but im getting SID266 (I think) that says electrical fault, inactive(Not sure), not properly working. These codes go on and off for me. Like I will be driving and the engine check would not come on. then it would.

My egr block was two tin can lids cut, rounded and placed on top, blocking the pipe. (Used 2 on each one for little bit more strength)

I did jam a large piece of aluminum foil and jammed it in tight. Learned my lesson when my Egr pipe exploded. Hope to god the aluminum foil is not anywhere in my engine or near my truck.

So do you think it can be degrading my already small 395 Horse engine?

borescopeit
07-21-2011, 02:34 PM
SID 266 is EGR #2 fault code. BWT you should have FMI # as well. What happed with my EGR is harness problem. I still get EGR fault code but in a week or two I want to rewire it to get rid of the fault codes.

When you get EGR codes it is not necessary the inner problem with EGR itself. In most cases it is short or open circuit in your EGR harness. It will take time to remove all plastic covers near ECM, unplug the #2 EGR and redo the harness.

P.S.: IMHO I think that the EGR fault codes make my ECU derate the engine and that is the reason why I did not see any positive results with HHO application on my truck.
By the way, I finally fried my new 220AMP DELCO alternator. I gave it a combined load of 170AMP. So, gonna replace it with another DELCO alternator, but 150AMP.