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View Full Version : Using methanol and exhaust heat to create Hydrogen



juiciness
04-29-2012, 03:25 AM
What do you guys think of this ebay auction?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HHO-H6-CO2-hydrogen-generator-2000-ml-min-H2-without-any-electrical-power-/170776319449?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27c30fd5d9

Not sure what is in the reactor, but I think it might be changing it into fuel vapor if it has to operate at 180 degrees C and above

Quebecker
04-29-2012, 11:08 AM
Hi,

it looks like an adaptation of the reactor Pantone (geet reactor)

aceras624
04-29-2012, 01:43 PM
not too keen on heating up methanol :) plus it also makes CO2 which is bad for combustion. Id love to see it in action but for now I prefer my HHO dry cell as it also uses Oxygen which people seem to forget when they say "im making a ""hydrogen"" reactor. Fact is its NOT a "hydrogen reactor". its an HHO thing :)

juiciness
04-29-2012, 03:09 PM
I found a scientific article describing the process of methanol to hydrogen using a catalyst, I think this is what its based on

ftp://kernenergie.nl/pub/www/library/report/2001/rx01005.pdf

creates 75% Hydrogen and 25% CO2

Stevo
05-01-2012, 01:19 PM
Hi,

it looks like an adaptation of the reactor Pantone (geet reactor)

+1. I'm interested in testing this, but haven't found much detailed info on how to build one. I don't think it's just a chamber.

Quebecker
05-01-2012, 04:55 PM
+1. I'm interested in testing this, but haven't found much detailed info on how to build one. I don't think it's just a chamber.

I had much infos (french documentation) about geet reactor

I Will be back with this in few days

aceras624
05-01-2012, 06:24 PM
I would still rather produce and USE oxygen than Carbon Dioxide!!!!

juiciness
05-01-2012, 09:38 PM
The guy on ebay is also selling the catalyst, along with the lid for his reactor, and mini water pump..

I think something like a oil catch tank made from aluminum with a screw type lid opening could work

something like this

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SILVER-Aluminum-Engine-OIL-CATCH-FILTER-Reservoir-Racing-Quality-AOLLY-Can-TANK-/290610909525

Plugging the top ports and changing the oil level gauge into ports

for the water pump, one can probably use ones made for computer water cooling, which uses 12 volts

I actually like this idea better since it uses the exhaust's heat instead of running up the alternator

Stevo
05-02-2012, 12:41 AM
I'm thinking there is a bit more to the $500 eBay unit than just an oil catch can. I'm researching how GEET systems work in order to better understand.

myoldyourgold
05-02-2012, 10:49 AM
The Geet system has been clouded in a number of problems because of the inventor Paul Pantone. What the real truth there is some what of a mystery but disturbing no matter how you look at it. The system though has been developed the most in France and many kits are available for both small engines and large. Google will give you lots info or go to Panacea University.org and there is a lot of info there on the Pantone Geet fuel processor.

Stevo
05-03-2012, 03:36 PM
The system looks pretty simple to build, but makes me wonder what type of magnet is used for the reactor and it's core. Yes, disturbing is one way to look at it.

Quebecker
05-04-2012, 08:43 AM
The system looks pretty simple to build, but makes me wonder what type of magnet is used for the reactor and it's core. Yes, disturbing is one way to look at it.

Stevo,

Is that information to the image attached and instructions translated into English could be useful for you ?

http://quanthomme.free.fr/pantone/pagedavid/photos/DavidPMC21.jpg

Weapon_R
05-04-2012, 02:11 PM
Stevo,

Is that information to the image attached and instructions translated into English could be useful for you ?

http://quanthomme.free.fr/pantone/pagedavid/photos/DavidPMC21.jpg

Que Interesting that you mentioned magnet. I don't believe that has anything to do with the working of the unit. I believe its just there to mislead.
Almost sure of it.

RustyLugNut
05-04-2012, 04:11 PM
Juiciness posted up a link to a scientific PDF paper on catalytic steam reformation of methanol. THAT is what this device is.

BUELLX1
05-23-2012, 11:06 PM
You can do the same thing wrapping copper tubing around your exhaust pipe and heating gasoline or methonol vapor for alot less money..The rod inside is just a steel rod to rout the air closer to the outside of the tube to be heated more eficiently.
Looks really cool though.

Madsceintist
05-24-2012, 01:35 AM
That steel rod is the magnet dudes...

Yes it takes up space to restrict the air to a confined area that has to be small enough for the magnet to cause a reaction in the molecules. This is also what Stanley Meyers used in the "gas processor" to change the molecules to an unstable state which relates to a stronger detonation. I think a few on here may understand this........... I hope.

Polarity is absolute here though. Restriction of intake and the correct amount of return from the exhaust. You can do this with gas, alcohol, diesel, kerosene, even in a lightly diluted solution of used motor oil and any of the mentioned fuels.
As the reactor heats up you can use more and more exhaust to run what ever you running than the fuel itself.

Quebecker
05-24-2012, 08:45 AM
That steel rod is the magnet dudes...

Yes it takes up space to restrict the air to a confined area that has to be small enough for the magnet to cause a reaction in the molecules. This is also what Stanley Meyers used in the "gas processor" to change the molecules to an unstable state which relates to a stronger detonation. I think a few on here may understand this........... I hope.

Polarity is absolute here though. Restriction of intake and the correct amount of return from the exhaust. You can do this with gas, alcohol, diesel, kerosene, even in a lightly diluted solution of used motor oil and any of the mentioned fuels.
As the reactor heats up you can use more and more exhaust to run what ever you running than the fuel itself.

Madsceintist,

Have you ever experienced the reactor Geet ? You seem to know

I believe that this concept remains an attractive option in our quest for fuel economy. This is a solution that uses the energy of the exaust and this energy costs nothing further to warm the birds

Regards

BUELLX1
05-24-2012, 05:29 PM
That steel rod is the magnet dudes...

Yes it takes up space to restrict the air to a confined area that has to be small enough for the magnet to cause a reaction in the molecules. This is also what Stanley Meyers used in the "gas processor" to change the molecules to an unstable state which relates to a stronger detonation. I think a few on here may understand this........... I hope.

Polarity is absolute here though. Restriction of intake and the correct amount of return from the exhaust. You can do this with gas, alcohol, diesel, kerosene, even in a lightly diluted solution of used motor oil and any of the mentioned fuels.
As the reactor heats up you can use more and more exhaust to run what ever you running than the fuel itself.

Would the magnet have to be on the inside or could you secure it to the outside with the same affect? Much like you would with the famed "fuel line magnets".

dixiepc
05-24-2012, 08:31 PM
The rod is not a magnet to start with. When you start the engine for the first time you make sure that the rod is aligned north and south then when the motor is started it magnetizes the rod. Don't ask me how this happens but this is how it works.

Madsceintist
05-24-2012, 09:37 PM
The rod is not a magnet to start with. When you start the engine for the first time you make sure that the rod is aligned north and south then when the motor is started it magnetizes the rod. Don't ask me how this happens but this is how it works.

dixiepc;
The rod IS magnetized! It doesn't just become magnetized when the engine starts.......... ?:confused: There's no electrical field to charge the rod, and it's not a tube. It's a solid rod that has been magnetized which becomes A MAGNET. It has a north and south as would anything else that's magnetized. If it has no north or south than it's not a magnet nor would it be magnetized!

BUELLX1;
Honestly I feel like a major moron but I tried a fuel saver magnetic ionizer once! 100 % waste of cash......... possibly the design and materials, but it made 0 difference over near 20,000 miles. But I took some serious looks into the GEET reactors and on a lawnmower of my own it was awesome! I have some similar use now on my Toyota, so this is valid for sure. I'm using it to reclaim the moisture in the exhaust however.
But as far as to the magnets on the outside, I don't think it would be as effective for a few reasons. The close proximity to the magnet causes the particles to react in a much more beneficial way then if the where further away. The fuel is being forced around the rod. Also heat and static tend to help the process. Water and steam can carry a fair amount of static on its own, even though that's not relative here.

Quebecker;
Keep in mind I did say this works with any fuel, I didn't say HHO, but what is it? Using fuel, running an engine, or most anything in motion creates heat so why lose the power it can create. Yes it is usable and without any interference. But depending on what fuel you use depends on the materials you will use. HHO= stainless for rust prevention. But its been costly having to have it all welded up in bends, since stainless doesn't seem to bend in a tube bender well, so it has to be welded with stainless wire.

BUELLX1
05-24-2012, 11:33 PM
[QUOTE=Madsceintist;50930]dixiepc;


BUELLX1;
Honestly I feel like a major moron but I tried a fuel saver magnetic ionizer once! 100 % waste of cash......... possibly the design and materials, but it made 0 difference over near 20,000 miles. But I took some serious looks into the GEET reactors and on a lawnmower of my own it was awesome! I have some similar use now on my Toyota, so this is valid for sure. I'm using it to reclaim the moisture in the exhaust however.
But as far as to the magnets on the outside, I don't think it would be as effective for a few reasons. The close proximity to the magnet causes the particles to react in a much more beneficial way then if the where further away. The fuel is being forced around the rod. Also heat and static tend to help the process. Water and steam can carry a fair amount of static on its own, even though that's not relative here.

QUOTE]

I have been looking into something like this to try on my vehicle. Probly more like a "cracking" device instead of a Geet system. They seem very similar if not the same. Excuse my ignorance...I am just learning these types of systems. :confused:

dixiepc
05-25-2012, 08:19 AM
Check this site out. It is plans to build a Geet system for a small engine.
Know where does it say to use a magnet for the rod. It only says that the
engine must be oriented so as the reaction chamber in which the exhaust
is entering is facing magnetic north for the first 20 min. of "burn-in time".

RustyLugNut
05-28-2012, 01:41 PM
The GEET system is nothing more than a cracking system. Much like what occurs in a refinery. They hydrocarbon chain is broken down via reaction with the steam and reformed into a hydrogen rich gas. The difficulty of the GEET system is it's inability to operate over a broad enough range of the engine's load map to be useful in a road going vehicle. I believe using it as an augmenting device such as what is done with HHO would be an effective use.
Also, the so called "magnet" is nothing more than a restriction rod that forces the reaction mix to close contact with the hot exhaust gas outer tube. The GEET will run weather this is magnetic or not. I have used non magnetic stainless as well as ceramic rods - it doesn't matter. What does happen if a ferrous rod is used is it can become weakly magnetic due to the flow of ions around it from the breakdown of the hydro carbons. This can happen in other industrial equipment. It is not a magical feature of the GEET.

Another poster wants to experiment with a device that he found on Ebay that uses a water/methanol mix to create a hydrogen rich gas. It uses catalysts that reduce the already low decomposition energy of methanol so the device is effective over a broad range of the driving cycle. Mixed with water under some exhaust heat, methanol easily yields syn gas - CO and H2.

The relative ease of decomposition of methanol means one does not need the complexity of a GEET system to work well. However, I would suggest, if you do want to build a GEET, test it first with water/methanol - it works far better than other hydrocarbon mixes.

The next logical step would be to coat the reaction rod with a catalyst. That is where my experimentation now focuses on.

The GEET device does work, just not in the pseudo science sort of way. It works with good old science and engineering.

hhofox
05-28-2012, 02:52 PM
Now hold up there Rusty!
It seems like you have just been testing away man! What kind of yields did you get with the GEET setup? Did your MPG increase?
I have an adaptation of the HCS system on my vehicle and I definitely notice a boost in power and acceleration, but the mileage is about the same.
My vehicle is a carbed Toyota -no computer, with 1.3L engine.
I am in Jamaica, so the heat, in combination with this darned e10 gas makes it hard to get accurate numbers for my mileage, but I am trying all that I can to cut back on my fuel consumption.
My version of the hydrocarbon cracking system has a narrow 3' length of copper tubing stuffed with copper wire, and bent into S's like a snake, going around my exhaust manif. -kinda like putting a watch on your hand.
The air is bubbled through gasoline, then passes through the heated tubing, then into the vacuum port of my carb, along with HHO (joined at the port.) I only get bubbling when I step on the gas.
My question is; should I use a steel rod inside the copper tubing instead of snaking it? It should work as long as the tubing is super heated right? Please let me know what you think.

RustyLugNut
05-31-2012, 02:37 PM
My research has spanned several decades. I first built a “vapor carburetor” back in the 70's, then a GEET type device, and various thermal cracking systems. I have also built hydrogen generators, both electrolysis units and metal oxidation units. I am part of a R&D company, so I can slip the work in during lulls in the schedule.

The GEET type device was tested on a dyno equipped '84 2.2 liter Chrysler gasoline engine as well as on a 2.2 liter Mercedes Diesel of the same year. Most of our testing has been performed using these engines though the Chrysler has been discarded and will be replaced by a more modern gasoline engine. Road testing was limited. But efficiency gains across the operating map ranged from 9 – 120 %. These are singular points on the RPM/Load map. Improvements in your mileage would depend on your driving patterns. The important thing to note about any gasoline vapor system or the GEET cracking system is the narrow load band it needs to operate in to be effective. At idle, the GEET runs the gasoline engine, but the exhaust heat is so low, only vaporization of lighter gasoline components is actually occurring. Very little thermal cracking is going on. As load and exhaust heat increase, so does the effectiveness of the GEET. The recycling of exhaust energy into the engine as well as the increase in the production in hydrogen rich gas results in great reductions in BSFC ( brake specific fuel consumption). However, the fuel mix is expanding tremendously and at some load point just under 50% of rated power, the expansion is such that the engine produces no more power. Not withstanding the fact that it took a juggling act to balance the EGR flow through the gasoline/water bubble chamber as well as regulating the fresh bypass air, and one can see how utterly un-drive able the GEET system was. The idea is sound, but the execution as shown on the drawings circulating the Net are kludgy at best. We have replaced the gas/water bubbler with digital injectors controlled with a wideband O2 sensor biased to lambdas in the 2.0 range. ECU controls make the system more driveable. The use of catalysts should expand the drive range.

It is easy to see how the GEET or some similar device would work well as an augmentation system. It becomes an engineering exercise once the process is understood.

As to the system you have devised hhofox, it is a clever variation on the above principles. The improved power and acceleration show your system is augmenting the carburetor. However, mileage is gained on the other side of the spectrum. You will need to find some way of leaning your fuel system just like users of HHO have been doing during the low power band that most cruising is done at. Our vapor system runs well at AFR of 30:1 and keeps going, beyond the limits of our wideband O2 sensor. The hydrogen rich gas does what HHO users have known for some time – it allows the lazy erratic lean burning mixes of fuel to stabilize and concentrate the pressure of heat release in a way that useful power can be derived even at these lean mixtures.

I would not do a thing to your current system. It will work for what you are doing. The main thing is to run your carburetor in a lean mode on demand. Then, you will see fuel economy gains.

Good job. Keep at it.

hhofox
06-01-2012, 01:19 PM
Wow! Thank you for the detailed and extensive response. It is greatly appreciated -believe me!
Basically, what I am getting is that the GEET system works up to a certain point. In order for it to be truly run as a stand-alone system, it would need to be made more complex -that is, a monitoring/delivery system would need to be implemented (as you have done.) To me, that says, car companies could do it if they really wanted to save the consumer money,the environment, etc. We know that's not about to happen so, let's move on.
SO you are saying that the GEET can be used to supplement the regular fuel delivery system. But, as with HHO, the amount of fuel supplied under load, needs to be limited/monitored, based on the needs of the engine at that specific time, right?
On my non-computerized car, how would that be accomplished?
I don't really want to, but I guess I will really have to mess with the air/fuel ratio on the carb -right?
But if I do that, it will run lean all the time, not only when the system is under a certain amount of load, right?
That would also mean that my gas-bubbling/cracking system MUST be working at all times, or my EGT temperatures will spike, wouldn't they?
Please let me know what you think, since this seems to be my dilemma.
It would seem that a computer controlled vehicle would have the advantage here, since it can have the programming altered to augment the amount of fuel being delivered under certain conditions then.

Oh, btw.... I also run HHO. My goal is to limit my output to approx 300MLPM. This should keep things cool and supply enough gas to enhance combustion.

I will have to test them independently again. I had to troubleshoot a heavy idling problem I had this week -air filter needed to be cleaned - so I will work on this next.