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Sparkie
06-11-2008, 02:30 AM
Aussie alert:D:D:D

G'day everyone.
I have been lurking on these forums for a while and have finally started getting bits together for my hho setup.
As the title says, How thick should the stainless be?
I have just picked up three pieces of 1/16" thick,8" square 316 stainless for a hefty price of $3.00AUS :)....How lucky was that.
My only concern is that the thickness is going to reduce the effect. I am pretty sure it doesn't matter but maybe someone knows if there is such a thing as optimal thickness.
Also while I am on the subject how big should the plates be?
I am going to go for 6 plates at 6" by 2 1/2" as that is about the best use for this stainless. That will give me 2 volts per layer in a + NNNN - block. The remainder I can use for the supply rails.
This should be sufficient for a test panel.
That will do for my first query in what I hope will be an excellent experience.

TIA Sparkie

Ronjinsan
06-11-2008, 03:53 AM
Ahhhh we have an Aussie! Hiya Sparkie....I have tried all sorts of thicknesses and eventually stuck with .9mm 316. Dont ask....I just think it seems to work best, it aint cheap though. Well worth buying when you finally decide on a permanent cell to build. My plates are 75 x 120 (sorry for the decimal) and I use a +nnn-nnn+ configuration in a vacuum system. The 1/16th should work fine, make sure a/ its straight b/ trimmed and even, and c/ sand it nice and smooth in the vertical plane. Best of luck, hope to hear some progress results soon! ;) Cheers

Sparkie
06-12-2008, 01:12 AM
Ahhhh we have an Aussie! Hiya Sparkie....I have tried all sorts of thicknesses and eventually stuck with .9mm 316. Dont ask....I just think it seems to work best, it aint cheap though. Well worth buying when you finally decide on a permanent cell to build. My plates are 75 x 120 (sorry for the decimal) and I use a +nnn-nnn+ configuration in a vacuum system. The 1/16th should work fine, make sure a/ its straight b/ trimmed and even, and c/ sand it nice and smooth in the vertical plane. Best of luck, hope to hear some progress results soon! ;) Cheers

Well I have cut the plates today and drilled 3 holes down the center to put 3/16 nylon bolts and nuts through it.When I get them.
The configuration will be +nnn-nnn+ as suggested.
Having to go back to work tomorrow:mad: means my project will be on hold for a while. The main thing is I have started.
I will definitely be keeping an eye on this forum in the mean time.
Thanks for all the help
Sparkie

Ronjinsan
06-12-2008, 01:45 AM
Ahhh the rigours of life....work work work....pay for petrol petrol petrol...to get to work work work.... goes round and round! :D

Phantom240
06-14-2008, 11:00 AM
I also wondered how thick my plates should be. I'm going to order some .020" stainless this week through where I work, cause we do a lot of fabrication and so I can get it a lot cheaper. lol.

Ronjinsan
06-14-2008, 03:12 PM
I also wondered how thick my plates should be. I'm going to order some .020" stainless this week through where I work, cause we do a lot of fabrication and so I can get it a lot cheaper. lol.

Dont get too thin! I found that from .9mm up is fine!

tbhavsar
06-16-2008, 10:17 AM
I am trying to follow ‘Ronjinsan’ configuration of 120mm X 75mm but can not find 0.9mm (~ 18,19 gauge). Currently I am working with 22 gauge (i.e. 0.65mm); I hope this would be OK.

FYI - AWG to square mm Wire Gauge Conversion

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/awg-wire-gauge-d_731.html

Ronjinsan
06-17-2008, 02:41 AM
Sounds perfect...only reason I went for .9 was for rigidity and longevity ! Sounds bad! Remeber though, gap is important, you can go froma very small gap to what appears to be large but the only difference will be the amount of electrolyte you will need to use. 2mm is a good spot even up to 3mm then the amount of electrolyte is not too huge! I made a cell out of the SS from a washing machine drum once....hey the plates were very thin but it kicked HHO no problem, I just had to use more spacers to stop it warping! Bast of luck :D

h-power
06-17-2008, 07:16 AM
I was making my cell plates out of 22g ss and using baking soda. Within 6 weeks the plates were eaten through. Have now switched to 18g and KOH. Also have decreased plate spacing from 5mm to 1.5mm. Production is about 800ml/min and draws 7.5amps. I'm installing it into my truck today.
I want to see if the plates degrade over time with the KOH. If not I will go back to 22g because it's much easier to work with.

Ronjinsan
06-17-2008, 07:59 AM
Sounds like a good test H-Power, I have had my .9 plates running for 2 months now in KOH and I took the cell out yesterday and checked it out....no wear at all so back it went with the same mix! :D

h-power
06-17-2008, 08:53 AM
Do you have info on current draw and production rate of your unit? Have you any temp readings after one or two hours of run time? I have found that the original units that I made needed a cooling system to stabilize temp and current draw. This new cell runs very cool in comparison and I will be trying it without a cooling system.

Ronjinsan
06-17-2008, 09:22 AM
Just changed to a new enclosure will give you some results at the weekend....dont tell me, you eventually put some neutrals in didnt you?? ;)
12-15 amps...but alas I dont test the gas out very often any more, with the vacuum attached it produces plenty! :D

h-power
06-17-2008, 10:49 AM
measuring rate at STP is easy, how do you measure it with manifold vacuum? What percent increase would you estimate production to be under 20 inches of vacuum typical of manifold vac?
Yes I did add 8 neutrals this time around. Amazing the increase in production with a decrease in amp draw and heat.

My new cell design is producing roughly 35ml/amp. At 20amps she is producing 700ml/min with minimal heat, very exciting!!

Ronjinsan
06-18-2008, 04:43 AM
Wow thats great....I am very pleased that its working well for you....My present unit is kicking about 1ltr per min but I attribute the lack of heat to being plugged into the manifold vacuum. I think mine pulls about 18 inches or so, although I havent been able to devise a way to measure it yet, the increase is really impressive. Do me a favour and (if your container can take it) try plugging your bubbler straight to the vacuum! You will be very surprised at the results. Only problem is you need a largeish bubbler and a one way valve between it and the gen to stop backflow of water on deceleration! So, are you running +nnnn-nnnn+ now H? Do you have PWM? If so is it worth it? Cheers

h-power
06-18-2008, 02:03 PM
PWM?? what's that?? I'm gonna do as you suggest and try direct to manifold vacuum. My truck has an extra capped off port right at the brake power booster. I'll try it there. I don't understand about the back flow valve. Manifold vacuum is always present while the engine is running. Sure it rises and falls but it's always there. How does backing off the gas pedal create a problem? That's when manifold vacuum is the highest, maybe 22 inches.

Plate arrangment is +nnnn--nnnn+

Ronjinsan
06-18-2008, 02:15 PM
There is a back rush at times and if you dont have a big enough bubbler or a one way valve the water gets sucked into the generator! Yeah I know I didnt believe it either until I tried it! You will see when you attach your vacuum pipe H its real violent! Regards Oh by the way, why did you waste a plate in the middle?

h-power
06-18-2008, 03:36 PM
Had to, it's a modified Smack. In order to get the neg line into the middle you need more than 1.5mm separation. The extra neg plate takes care of that.
I'm not using a bubbler. Don't really see a need for one. I tried lighting off the h in the generator chamber and the resulting pop was not a big deal. It didn't even blow off the hose. If that's the worst it can get there's no worry.

jared
06-24-2008, 08:47 PM
i was trying to use 26 gauge at about 4'x6' and had a lot of trouble warping my plates beyond practical use

i only have tin snips to cut with and a cordless drill with a few bits and taps

ive just been using 1/4' allthread and cap bolts, any way ive pretty much given up because my production is pathetic and i have had a lot of trouble with dead shorts

i was trying to use fiberglass window screen as a spacer, figured that would be my closest spacing but ive not been able to get it to work once so had to use some thick rubber like3/16" not really ideal

ron could you point me in the right direction?