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Ronjinsan
06-11-2008, 05:18 AM
I finished my latest tests today on my car's consumption and I am pleased to report......55.24 MPG! I can live with that thanks.:D This test was done on a preset amount of petrol applied Monday morning and the exact mileage driven till now. I drove at normal 100-120KPH on fairly open roads with average traffic. This is my normal driving experience so it will apply to me most of the time. This last test has produced the best I have ever reached from this 1600cc engine with standard carb and no electronic garbage. I am using a 9 plate cell with some active cooling, a fuel heater in line and a modified PCV! I am extremely happy to say the least! So to those non-believers and home made thermodynamic specialists!

Up Yours! :eek: :D:D

plumabob
06-11-2008, 05:44 AM
Man that is outstanding!!!!!! I hope I can see similar results with my 1.6 corolla. Right now i'm working on the cooling. I built a small radiator from a section of convector used for heating your house. I have a fuel pump ordered. I took your advice and changed my plate stack to +NNN-NNN+. What may I ask is your electrolyte mix per liter? Are you using baking soda or SH? I would like to keep mine as close to yours as possible to see if I can duplicate your results.

Again congrats that is some awesome mileage!!!!

Bob

Ronjinsan
06-11-2008, 07:54 AM
Hey Bob ....you can see why I'm so pleased, AND I aint given up yet! Still trying for better. My SH mix was 2 flat teaspoons in rainwater. Just remember though I have said it before, start with 1 flat spoon.It really has a lot to do with other factors like plate gap, plate thickness, water purity etc but start with one and add a little at a time until you are happy. Also, the water doesnt reach a conditioned state for 50 to 100kms, once it does the temperature evens out and the water clarity stay nice.. Best of luck:)

plumabob
06-11-2008, 10:29 AM
OK 2 flat teaspoons I get but to how much water? Liter? gallon?

dave4165
06-11-2008, 10:42 AM
Ronjinsan I have a Toyota Yaris hatch back im worred that the mods needs to make browns gas will be hard for me becauase of very limited engine compartment space. And I don't want to use my truck space . Is it still possible for me to do the mods on a Yaris hatchback. Also have questions how good is the power of your car versus regular gas. And can i go back to regular gas if i need to for emergnecy's? Thanks for yur post i do admit im a sceptic. Thats because i trust the testimony's from real people versus companys sellling products . Also can you tell me wich company you bought your information from? And wich on the market do you think is best thanks again
Dave:)

Smith03Jetta
06-11-2008, 01:08 PM
Dave, I don't mean to take over Ronjinsan's thead but I have a couple things I'd like to comment about your post...

I was just down the street at a guy's shop. He's charging several hundred dollars to convert people's cars over to HHO.

I built 4 separate generators and produced 3 working models that I ran in my car for less than $200.00. I'm currently running a device that has about $50.00 worth of parts in it.

I did not purchase information from ANYONE. This technology is out there for the taking. It's Open Source. It's available for anyone who knows how to use GOOGLE.COM.

Yaris: I don't think anybody on here will be able to tell you how to hook up your generator in a Yaris. That's something that you will need to figure out for yourself. I have a Jetta and had to use a saw to cut some steel out from under my hood to have room to put in my generator. Every car is different and unless there's another Yaris owner on this site, then you will need to experiment to see what you can do with what space you have available. I've attached a photo of a Yaris. From what I can see, you don't have any room at all. I'd recommend bolting it to your front License Plate bracket. (Ha Ha!) You may want to trade that car in for one with some space, convert it to HHO and get better gas mileage than a Prius Hybrid or a Yaris.

In an emergency situation where you don't have water in your generator, you can just turn off the electricity to the generator. The engine will run a little lean unless you haven't modified your O2 sensors but it will get you to the closest Walmart where you can drop 72 cents USD on a new gallon of distilled water. If you have any other kind of emergency, the same applies. If you need to pull out the entire system because of the FBI tries to inspect your car or something, it takes 5 minutes, tops...

I haven't put my car on a Dyno but I do seem to have more power. The last time I noticed this much power increase was when I installed K&N air filters in my VW Touareg SUV... which, as a matter of fact, is my next target vehicle for improving MPG. That fantastic 6000 lb Gross Vehicle Weight SUV already gets 21 mpg without any help. Imagine me getting 30 mpg in it.

I can say that I've ridden in Volkswagens running Nitrous Oxide. When the driver hit the nitrous button, the engine made a sound that I had never heard before. it was sort of a cool growl like it was finally being allowed to perform at the level it was designed. When I stomp the throttle on my Jetta, I get a little bit of that growl sound. Not like the Nitrous car but enough to notice a difference. It is a little bit like the throttle response between a turbo and non-turbo model (Well, Almost)

Mr. Smith

Smith03Jetta
06-11-2008, 01:09 PM
Photo of Yaris... For Laughs.

Mr. Smith

Ronjinsan
06-11-2008, 01:26 PM
Bob I said 2 flat teaspoons to 1ltr but start with 1 and work your way up! Its not a science as some people on youtube would have you believe. To each his own! :D

Ronjinsan
06-11-2008, 01:38 PM
Dave Hi and welcome to the forum! We (Caoe Town) have loads of Yaris's around as Toyota is the 'preffered' brand here. I must admit to a certain admiration for Toyota's, they may not be the prettiest things on the road but gosh they are reliable. I will try and get a look under the hood of one for you and see what the problem is! In the meantime...have a good look around yourself. What are you looking for...OK, a space against the bulkhead or pehaps around the radiator area.....doesnt have to be massive, about 6 inches square by 10 inches deep! Look again and let me know! To answer your other questions a/ my performance is startling to say the least, when I need it, its there and much smoother than before. b/ This is an add-on, its not even rocket science as some people would have you believe. You can switch it off as easily as you switched it on. c/ My information is actually everybodies....it belongs to the world. What I know I have gleened through experiment and having the common sense to sort the chaff from the seed. You will see many videos on youtube, some are good some are junk, some are from what appears to be Guru's in the field....you will need to do your own sorting but we will be here to help you anytime you need it as indicated by my friend Mr Smith! Cheers, and we hope you succeed in your tests...:D

plumabob
06-11-2008, 03:26 PM
Thanks Ronjinsan for clearing that up!

Stratous
06-11-2008, 03:29 PM
I have found that actually heating the distilled water up prior to adding your electrolyte will save time while trying to get your amp draw where you want it.

grimr27
06-11-2008, 03:50 PM
hey ron just wanted to give you my congratulation on 50+mpg now i dont feel so out there with my 40mpg. I hope to have my new cell going soon sence my old one melted im back to 20mpg and gas went to $4.04 today.:confused:

jim52
06-12-2008, 12:05 AM
Ronjinsan,I'm new to the site and just learning about HHO.Can you tell me where to get the plans /parts list to get started? I have to drive about 80-120 miles a day for work and not reimbursed for much of that. I really need to get this on my car soon. I don't Know which plans to trust.PLEASE HELP.JIM

gte
06-12-2008, 12:48 AM
Ron and grim, what vehicles are you using HHO in?

And Ron, do you have any specs on your design? Plate dimensions, spacing, number of plates (9 I believe), wiring, etc etc? How are you conditioning the gasoline itself?

As for 55mpg, :eek:

Ronjinsan
06-12-2008, 02:16 AM
Well guys I will try and answer one or two questions this morning, as well as I can. My HHO bottle is born of necessity, it consistes of a 1 ltr Glass preserve jar. Reasons for this a/ Its cheap b/ I can get one anytime c/ The plastic ones only do the job for people who want 10% increase d/ They are designed to withstand the heat of steam. Those four reasons kept bringing me back to the jamjar and it has served me well. The lid sucks, its very thin and will leak wherever it can once drilled. I use acrylic plate as thick as I can get (10mm) cut into a square slighly larger than the jar, one for the top and one for the bottom. Drill a hole in each corner and use 6mm threaded bar with nuts to hold the bolts into the bottom plate. Use a thin rubber disc on the bottom plate and slip the jar into the cage. Make a gasket for the top of the jar using rubber again (old inner tube!)and then secure the top plate using wing nuts. OK if you were able to follow that, you now have a jar secured between 2 perspex plates by rods and nicely sealed! Next, in the lid end only (the work below that is over) drill a 12mm hole and tap into it an air pipe connector (I use the one they sell for spray guns) Its just a thread with a barbed nipple on the other end. Thats for the HHO out.......so now you have you container. There is sooooo much info on putting your plates together I am not even goiing to try that one. But. I use 316l stainless plates 75 x 120 x .9 and my array is +nnn-nnn+. I attach these inside using SS brackets which I cut and shape to suit the best position for my plates. As I have mentioned elsewhere on this forum I dont use plastic bolts and nuts, they are hard to find and tedious to get right. I space my plates with 2mm hard neoprene rubber, a small square at each corner of the plate. One plate with, and one without until they look nice and even. Finally, I am driving a 1600cc VW Golf with standard carburation. I realised this morning on the way to work that this is probably as good as it can get, if you think about it, we are boosting our cars but eventually the carb still has some work to do! But hey.....I can live with this consumption....I am saving a lot of money thanks to HHO an for those people who say that i cant get something for nothing....well just to make you happy, I switched my headlights off...:D Keep it up you guys...you cant fail, remember, even 10 to 20% is worth it!;)
72

gte
06-12-2008, 10:09 AM
Ron

What is the purpose of the bubbler and the 1 way valve? I thought one was a function of the other, meaning that they both acted as physical barriers against a backfire?

whitty
06-12-2008, 10:38 AM
The bubbler serves as a safety in case the engine where to some how spark and catch the HHO in the lines and have it come back to the chamber. If it were to make it to the chamber well your would have an explosion however the fire if this were to happen wouldn't make it past the bubbler since it is filled with water and the HHO bubbles travel to the top of it through the water. as for the one way valve that is for when you let off on the gas and you know when you were young and you tried to blow into a juice box then all the juice comes out at you. Well this is the same idea. When you let off the gas the pressure decreases and has to go somewhere (back in the lines in the bubbler) this would cause the bubbler to drain back into the chamber without the one way valve so it is another thing that is needed. hope that helps and makes sense! lol

dave4165
06-12-2008, 10:59 AM
Yeah i looked under the hood, about the only place i have spaces is down by the lower part of the motor. Everyplace else has tubing . I guess there might be enough space there ill have to get some tape measure and double check. As far as getting a new car thats out of the question since this car is brand new and im upside down in it anyway. But funny photo Smith mu hahhahah.:D This forum is great i didn't know that info is open source. Thanks your already saving me money!!! And Smith why would i want to pull this stuff off for the FBI educate me. Don't care any way its my car ill run what fuel i chose. Thanks again guys me and my mechanic are ready to be educated on browns gas.

gheuett
06-12-2008, 01:29 PM
Hi Dave,

Not sure what car you have but you might look in the area behind the bumper to the right and left of the radiator. I have a 2003 Saturn View. The headlight assemblies sit on top of the front end assembly and come out pretty neatly. That provides access to a lot of space where I will be able to locate my generator.

Just a thought - seeing that Ronjinsan, Mr. Smith and others have a lot of information our there on their work so far, it would be nice if we had a place we could "park" information on our generators, parts lists, photos etc. and be able to route others that are interested in your approach.

One thing that has sold me on developing one of these is the fact that there are so many who are willing to provide all their info and not trying to sell something. This is not at all to begrudge people that are marketing their products. It's just that you feel very comfortable that someone is giving you the straight shot as opposed to marketing to you. This is a very cool phenomenon that we are involved - helping to solve our own energy/clean air situation (or at least make it less of an impact) and doing so on our own!

Sorry about the philosophical digression!!

Gib

Smith03Jetta
06-12-2008, 03:27 PM
Dave... I was funning with you on the entire post. Some people, especially people involved in Alternative fuels, Alternative Medicine, Alternative Realities, Alternative Lifestyles, etc. are normally paranoid, anti-corporate, anti-government people. The reference to FBI, CIA, WMF, World Bank or anything else is a fun jab at those guys who think someone is watching them wire up their HHO generators from an array of sub-orbital spy satelites in geosynchronous orbit over their house.

Mr. Smith

gte
06-12-2008, 03:51 PM
Whitty,

Thanks for the reply, I thought that was what they were for, I would think that you could use just the check valve though, and you wouldn't need the bubbler? Because it would act as a physical barrier as well?



The bubbler serves as a safety in case the engine where to some how spark and catch the HHO in the lines and have it come back to the chamber. If it were to make it to the chamber well your would have an explosion however the fire if this were to happen wouldn't make it past the bubbler since it is filled with water and the HHO bubbles travel to the top of it through the water. as for the one way valve that is for when you let off on the gas and you know when you were young and you tried to blow into a juice box then all the juice comes out at you. Well this is the same idea. When you let off the gas the pressure decreases and has to go somewhere (back in the lines in the bubbler) this would cause the bubbler to drain back into the chamber without the one way valve so it is another thing that is needed. hope that helps and makes sense! lol

Sparkie
06-12-2008, 04:55 PM
Whitty,

Thanks for the reply, I thought that was what they were for, I would think that you could use just the check valve though, and you wouldn't need the bubbler? Because it would act as a physical barrier as well?

Nope that wont work.
As the gas is being produced it is pushing past the check valve(under pressure) as it is supposed to but when you get an flame to the hydrogen it will tear past the check valve well before it could close due to the pressure of the gas holding the check valve open long enough for the flame to sneak past.Check valves just are not designed to prevent a blow back.
With a bubbler you have a physical water barrier between the bubbles so it can't carry back up the pipe.
Sorry for the lame explanation but it is the only way I know to explain it.

gte
06-12-2008, 05:17 PM
I totally understand what you are saying, I just thought it wouldn't be necessary. I may try it with and without a water barrier, just to see if it changes anything.

Stratous
06-12-2008, 05:37 PM
the bubbler is more than just a safety device. It also acts as a filter. It keeps any moisture, caustic material and debris from entering your intake.

Ronjinsan
06-13-2008, 04:09 AM
Dave... I was funning with you on the entire post. Some people, especially people involved in Alternative fuels, Alternative Medicine, Alternative Realities, Alternative Lifestyles, etc. are normally paranoid, anti-corporate, anti-government people. The reference to FBI, CIA, WMF, World Bank or anything else is a fun jab at those guys who think someone is watching them wire up their HHO generators from an array of sub-orbital spy satelites in geosynchronous orbit over their house.

Mr. Smith

Hey I have my best ideas during Solar flare periods, thats the best time to don my aluminium skullcap to avoid my brainwaves being intercepted by the CIA! :D

grimr27
06-13-2008, 12:28 PM
gte trust Sparkie when it comes to the bubbler i have tryed just the check valve and it still blew the lid off my cell. i now have a bubbler and a flame arrester never can be to safe.. the arrester i made works great it is 1/2 pvc cut app. 4in stuffed it tight with steel wool wet the wool cap each end and attach it between your lines. mine is on my hho torch not shure you need it on the car.

tbhavsar
06-14-2008, 01:12 AM
Ronjinsan,

I am very impressed with your results; can you please share your setup? What was the purpose of heater, active cooling, and modified PCV. These are technical terms and your information will be helpful. Any pitures, video link would be very useful as well.

Regards
Tushar

dave4165
06-14-2008, 09:36 AM
I'm looking for a build list for HHO production. But i haven't seen any on here Can someone give me a list of the best not the cheapest but the best for a build for HHO production for my car? Reason why i don't want to go cheap because I 'm afraid of cheap parts failing.I just want a build list so i can start buy some of this stuff and get an idea of what the cost will be. And can some of you tell me if you been running just HHO gas or have you been doing a mix of regular gas and HHO? thanks guys
Dave:)

Stratous
06-14-2008, 10:05 AM
No one here runs straight HHO, that would be highly difficult to accomplish. We all build small HHO generators to increase engine efficiency, some have better results than others. In order to give a detailed list, you first must decide where you want to place your cell and bubbler. Then you must decide how large it will have to be. I can give you some basic parts, but w/o specifics thats about it. Keep in mine that the parts I give you will be based on how I would design your HHO cell, not neccessarrily how you would or some other person would. There are several places online to purchase premade kits, but they are fairly expensive. So here are some basic parts to get started with.

1. Stainless steel plate. I would use 1mm thick 316ss, 304ss, or 301ss. 316 is the best, but is expensive. 301 is the hardest but is also expensive, 304 is cheap but wont last as long as the other two. I used SS wall plates from Lowes for now, but have 301ss for my next build.

2. stainless steel thread all or bolts with nuts and washers

3. a dielectric material for plate spacing. I used nylon washers 1/16" thick

4. Wire large enough for 30amps minimum. I used multi strand 4 gauge. Multi strand is easier to work with and carries more amperage than solid wire due to more surface area.

5. Wire accessories like eyelets and splices.

6. a switching mechanism, like a large relay or a high amperage switch. I used a 300amp battery disconnect switch.

7. a circuit disrupting device like a fuse or breaker to protect against thermal run away. I didnt install a protection device. I used the 300 amp switch and an ammeter. If i have problems I just shut it off, but havnet had any yet.

8. pure water and an electrolyte. Baking soda or sodium hydroxide and salt are easy to obtain. I use sodium hydroxide, "NaOH" obtainable at lowes in form of a drain cleaner.

9 a suitable container or containers that can withstand heat up to 200ish degrees. I used a cantex electrical box obtained from lowes. Personally I wont use that container again, I will build my next container from polycarbonate plastic. Heat rated for 270 degrees.

10 rubber or flexable plastic tubing and brass or nylon fittings for tube connections. I used both types of tube, the clear plastic tube is cheaper than automotive grade tubing and nylon fittings are cheaper than brass.

I am sure this list is not all inclusive, it will depend on how you wish to design your generator.

tbhavsar
06-15-2008, 11:33 PM
FYI -

http://www.hydrofuelsolutions.com/Goverment_press_releases.html

Stratous
06-16-2008, 11:26 AM
Thats a nice article to have, Seems the naysayers can go someplace else.

u4david
07-19-2008, 10:19 AM
I finished my latest tests today on my car's consumption and I am pleased to report......55.24 MPG! I can live with that thanks.:D This test was done on a preset amount of petrol applied Monday morning and the exact mileage driven till now. I drove at normal 100-120KPH on fairly open roads with average traffic. This is my normal driving experience so it will apply to me most of the time. This last test has produced the best I have ever reached from this 1600cc engine with standard carb and no electronic garbage. I am using a 9 plate cell with some active cooling, a fuel heater in line and a modified PCV! I am extremely happy to say the least! So to those non-believers and home made thermodynamic specialists!

Up Yours! :eek: :D:D
What kind amp/lpm/you got while testing before instalation?