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alba
04-06-2008, 06:47 PM
Let us start with some kind of ice breaking session so that we know each other better.. Let me start first..
I am Alba.. I live in Malaysia..
I use to drive a Honda Accord and a Proton Saga.. I also have a 175cc Kawasaki Eliminator..
I just installed one device in my Proton Saga and still checking its efficiency.. I intend to install in all my motors in the near future.. But its not easy to find the correct electrode in my hometown..

MikeP
04-06-2008, 09:37 PM
Did you make the kit yourself? or did you buy it?

Explain a little more about your setup, using which electrolyte, which electrode setup/material how many amps drawing etc?

alba
04-06-2008, 10:49 PM
I just happened to find this HHO things by accidently.. Since I thought it is viable to use the idea so why don't I try.. I am not an affiliate of Water4Gas yet, but am looking forward to (not sure about the payment - don't have the credit card or what)..
For the electrodes, the best I could do is using guitar string no 1.. Never succeed using any other materials.. But you know, the guitar string is so thin, I don't think I got enough bubbles..
I use pure baking soda as the elecrolyte..
So what do you think?

fosgate3
04-21-2008, 04:14 PM
My name is Glen and I live in north Louisiana. I work as a school psychologist in a south Arkansas school district.

I drive a 2007 Saturn Ion3, 2.2L, as my primary ride and have a 1995 F150 V8 as a "work" vehicle on the w/ends when I need to haul something. Initially, I was going to do all the hho mods on the truck and then replicate for the car but with the price of gasoline constantly increasing, I am tired of waiting.

I have a Injen cold air intake system on the car. The car got 29mpg when I bought it, in spite of the 32mpg rating. With the intake, it averages 32mpg. I'm wanting to get more out of it, hence my interest in hho cells. I drive about 80miles one way to work so anything will help.

Rocket
05-15-2008, 12:31 PM
My name is Heath and I am an HHO addict.

I'm just kidding, I live in California and my commute consists of 86 miles (depending on my rout) one way and I start at about 3000 ft elevation and work at 8000 ft. I drive a 1991 Toyota 4x4 v6 with 32 in all terrain tires. I have not seen better than roughly 14 miles per gallon overall since I started this commute. I stumbled across this subject last week and decided to build a generator using stainless steel electrodes (bolts with large washers stacked on them) in distilled water with baking soda as my catalyst. I have the output running into my air intake near the throttle body. This morning I recorded 16.4 miles per gallon overall (2.5 mpg increase or 15% ) I am getting close to 20 now in the highway which unfortunately is not my entire drive but I'll take it. I think if I revisited my electrode and electro light set up I can get it up to 25%. An added benefit has been a slight increase in power. The engine seem to be a little more responsive. I think this thing works, I know lots of people say its a joke but results are results and I will take any savings I can get.

Ronjinsan
05-28-2008, 03:24 AM
Hey, you are absolutely right, I dont care what people think, all I know is I am getting much better mileage than they are! :-)

gasmakr
05-30-2008, 04:42 PM
Hey, you are absolutely right, I dont care what people think, all I know is I am getting much better mileage than they are! :-)

AMEN to that......:D:D:D

Stratous
05-30-2008, 04:47 PM
Hey Glen, I live in Bossier City. Howdy neighbor. I know it works as well, I measured an increase of 4 Mpg with my 3/4 ton Cummins.

Ronjinsan
05-31-2008, 01:47 PM
Wow you guys have such Biiig engines over there. I'm just happy for you that your fuel prices are still reasonable! Iam so glad we dont have such big engines to cope with! 8-)

hamcampro
06-07-2008, 02:57 PM
Hi, my name is Mark. I live in Omaha, Nebraska. My primary mode of transportation is my cow. Kidding. I drive a 94 Nissan Altima that gets about 24mpg city. As of now, I have a working generator consisting of a stainless steel coil, pvc, bubbler, still using baking soda, and injecting into air intake just after the MAF sensor. Will be adjusting my O2 sensor before taking accurate mpg. Hoping to have a bigger difference after the adjustment. Glad to have a place to talk and compare ideas with. Heres to better mileage.

Ronjinsan
06-07-2008, 04:58 PM
Kewl pleased to meet you Hamcampro... we love all sorts of input from people who want to make a go of it......the day we get the sceptics on here I leave!...LOL

hooty
06-08-2008, 01:23 AM
So, I've already posted elsewhere, but I might as well give you all an introduction.

I'm an IT professional, working in a network engineering role. I love cars, I have 3 of them with 2 parked due to gas prices and not being happy with 15 mpg downhill with a good strong tailwind. I'm a bit of a sarcastic type, but I try to keep it in check. I found this forum because I am trying to learn as much as I can before taking the plunge and trying to build an HHO system (as the fact is, I am 600 miles away from home for at least another month).

I see a lot of the "buy our PDF now" links and it pains me to see something so valuable covered up in the skin of snake oil where no one wants to take a viable, valid technology and try it out. The fact of the matter being, what really got my looking at it is when one of my favorite Web shows did a deal on HHO and made it look to be unrealistic. It was at that point when I realized that they had totally missed a number of variables in the equation, so to speak. I am hoping that within a month or so that I will feel comfortable enough with seeing other's designs and structures and feedback to the point that I will feel comfortable taking the plunge.

OH and 1 more thing, advise and the words 'cut to the chase' are always welcome.

-Hooty

Ronjinsan
06-09-2008, 04:57 AM
You got it Hooty.....I'll do my best, as I'm sure all the guys on here will!

rigidchop
06-09-2008, 06:36 PM
hello all, i am a skeptic. i built my first generator yesterday, a very crude example, and was suprised that it even worked. so now i plan on building a better example. my goal is not to spend more than $25, just to see what happens. can it be done?

Ronjinsan
06-10-2008, 02:56 AM
Of course it can but.....if you spend little you will get what you pay for. It would be a pity for you to waste a lot of time proving something that has been proven over and over, because in the end you will be a bigger sceptic and disappointed too. Then you will go telling people that you did it and only got 200ml in 2 minutes of gas and then we have more sceptics! Experiment with cheap bits until you feel that you can do something better, then buy the right stuff once and for all and build one that you will be happy with! Dont know what you will get with $25 but yes it will work. We built one in a plastic tupperware container with 2 SS cups and it produced very well, needless to say it overheated and melted the container! :D:D Futile exercise!

Sparkie
06-11-2008, 05:17 AM
My name is Peter, from Australia and I am a Sparkie.(electrician) I have a 3.2l V6 Holden Jackaroo or Isuzu trooper to you Yanks :p
It is a fuel guzzler. Especially with the bigger tires.
I don't know the MPG but it is woeful. Fuel is getting up to $1.50+/L where I live and it keeps climbing. So I decided to look at all the snake oil remedies for bringing the fuel usage down.
When I found out about this I decided that if I can build it myself it must be worth a try.
Found a lot of sites which try to sell the complete units which are overpriced to say the least and probably cheap s**t.
When I found out about the Smack dude who made one and ran several tests with some other dudes and didn't try to sweet talk anyone into buying it, I looked a bit further and found ZeroFossillFuels who was very knowledgeable and easy to understand I was hooked. thank heaven for Youtube.
Anyway I am in the process of getting all the bits together and building a Smack type unit.
Between us all we should come up with a hho unit which kicks some serious booty!

Sparkie

Hitchhiker
06-12-2008, 12:40 AM
I just started reading about HHO generators a few days ago and have become interested in building one to use on my Jeep Wrangler. I'll be watching these forums for more information as I learn more about this process.

sandracer
06-13-2008, 01:50 AM
Greetings all! My name is Lee, I`m a motorcycle technician by trade, act as crew chief for a Class1 desert race team. I guess you could say I kind of a car freak. I live on the Central Coast of California, where I am now paying $4.85 per gallon for 91 octane. I drive a 2002 Acura RSX Type-S with the "usual" mods for performance. I commute 86 miles a day & my little rocket gets 29~31 mpg on average. I just found out about this cool technology from one of my fellow racers that is running a system on his V8 Dodge Durango & getting 24 mpg.
My first cell is going to be a Smack`s Booster, with some ecu tuning to help the get the mixture correct. I`m sure that it will not be the final booster I build but it looks to be a simple way to learn.
By the way my goal is to be able to knock down 40 MPG while still being able to hit 12 second quarter miles! (Nitrous is such a fun thing) We shall see where it ends up!

Ronjinsan
06-13-2008, 04:31 AM
Hiya Lee and welcome to the forums. You should perhaps go to General discussions and get into the posts there...more people will get to know you that way. Your considerable experience with NOS will prove very interesting and you may be able to answer some of the more tricky electronic questions that get asked! :D Cheers

tbhavsar
06-16-2008, 09:42 AM
Hello,

I am Tushar; I live in New Jersey and my round trip work commute is 50 Miles. I drive Honda Accord 1995 LX with Current MPG ~28 w/o any modifications.

I am new to this forum and I am in the process of making the electrode now; yesterday bought some hardware from Sears; I would be first experimenting and posting Images and Results.

Congratulations to Experts on their Success!

Stratous
06-16-2008, 11:16 AM
Welcome the the group tushar, we have several people here that have had great success with HHO. If you need answers please post away.

Dean88
06-17-2008, 10:30 PM
Howdy, My name is Caleb Dean, I live in a very rural area of Texas called Roscoe.

Ronjinsan
06-18-2008, 05:02 AM
Welcome to the forums Caleb. I hope you find good information here and resonably sane answers to any questions you may have. I look forward to reading your posts..Cheers :D

xtremerydz
06-18-2008, 12:08 PM
Hello, my name is Lee, I live in british Columbia Canada. I first learnt of HHO from a relative of mine and decided to build a simple cell just to see how it works. Lets just say being an automotive technician i was impressed!! The one thing though that pissed me off is all the people out there trying to make a buck off of the technology(wich has been around fo a long time). I'm am currently working on a larger HHO cell for my mini van due to the 11mpg I could use a boost in mpg. I will offer up any ideas I have and will make sure to share freely after all free energy should be free :D

gasmakr
06-18-2008, 01:47 PM
Hey all been away for a wile but i'm finally back:p it's great to see all the new members and the energy they bring to the group!:D

Ronjinsan
06-18-2008, 02:02 PM
Hi Xtremerydz

Welcome to the forums.....we dont worry too much about the people trying to make a buck....thats natural law of progression, on the other hand we will be sure to give you any help we can, just post when you need it as we are lucky to have several resident Gurus on the site like my friend gasmakr....welcome back I missed your helpful answers, nice to see you again! I am still trying to make this a nice site to come to with no naysayers and idiots just serious learners!... ;):D

dennis13030
06-27-2008, 10:32 PM
My name is Dennis. I live in Arizona(near Phoenix). I'm an Electronics Engineer and have been for a long time. I'm pretty good with mechanical stuff and computers.

I'm thinking "If I could find a way to make lots of money and save the planet at the same time, that would be great." Is HHO the answer? I don't know yet but I am learning about it and so far it has possibilities.

I'm also thinking that "If enough of us band together to perfect this technology, we could make loads of money and save the planet."

amwewa66
06-27-2008, 11:36 PM
Hi all

I am Andy from Tarpon Springs Florida. I drive a 2000 GMC Yukon XL 5.3 Liter and have started the research into building an HHO generator. Well with the direction I am going in it is going to be more like a HHO reactor than a generator.

I am changing out the stock alternator with a 200 amp alternator, changing the plugs and wires to racing quality equipment. I will also be removing the catalytic converter.

I am in the process of building a dual connected chamber electrolysis gas separator or an H shaped device. The H chamber will then be encased in a reservoir and cooled with circulating antifreeze through a small fan cooled tranny radiator. I will be using a pump to circulate the catalyst solution into bubbler to maintain catalyst solution flow and bubble break up.

My catalyst mix will be water, methanol and potassium carbonate. The hydrogen will then flow into a decissent filter and then into a holding chamber which will then have the hydrogen gas pumped into the air intake and manifold via a vacuum line. The oxygen will be vented out of the vehicle to the outside.

By using the above stated catalyst solution and hi amps I should be producing anywhere between 5 and 10 L/min of hydrogen.

I will be using the new COSM III to control all of the electronics and will be backing the O2 sensor out of the exhaust pipe. I will also be using a fuel heater to increase gasoline vaporizing and mixing with the hydrogen.

The entire unit will be housed remotley in the rear luggage compartment of the SUV and should only be 3X3X2 externally vented enclousure.

If anyone has any suggestion or comments please post them and shoot me an email. All interaction is welcome and is used to broaden my thought process because I have McGyveritis.

andy@millergren.com

rmptr
06-27-2008, 11:57 PM
My name is Rich,
The cost of fuel is too high for me to NOT participate in HHO HOD.
I hope to be able to contribute with affordable options.

Dean88
06-28-2008, 01:01 AM
Hi all

I will also be removing the catalytic converter.


andy@millergren.com


Howdy, be sure to keep the guts of your cat because it goes for quite a bit of cash. I sold the cat from a 76 F150 for $75 dollars to a guy that recycles the cats for platinum (I think).

amwewa66
06-28-2008, 01:06 AM
If the CAT has platinum in it is it in plates? If it is they can be used as the bests cell plates around.

Dean88
06-28-2008, 10:14 AM
If the CAT has platinum in it is it in plates? If it is they can be used as the bests cell plates around.

Yes and no, The yes is that there is platinum in it, the no is the three cats I have gutted (.5 -1.5 mpg increase) they all had a white cheramic looking stuff in them. But the receclyer I sold my cat to said they crush the ceramic and soak the powder in some kind of acid and it eats the ceramic and so all that is left is a bit of platinum. Now there isn't very much in a single cat. The older ones had up to 1/4 of an ounce and the newer ones much less.
(Don't count my word as scripture, this is all info that I was told by the receclyer so he may have just fed me a bunch of crap)

volomike
06-29-2008, 01:27 AM
I am Mike. I live near Myrtle Beach and work out of my home as a PHP/MySQL web developer. When you become a freelancer instead of working in a cubicle, you begin to think more about your debt to earnings ratio and your cash flow, and begin to think about what an excellent life you could have if you didn't have to pay so many bills or could get things cheaper. So this led me to think about HHO Generation.

My father-in-law, George, and I are working out our first HHO generator. We built the Power Tube Kit as shown on YouTube but with a few exceptions. It's working quite well, but we're experiencing some heat and some burned out 25amp fuses at this point. I think it's a few problems so far: too much baking soda, we're not using a pulse wave modulator, we're using aluminum instead of stainless steel for the positively charged shield around the electrolyzer, we're not using a relay, and we've got some of the wiring running at too small of a gauge.

So, any advice is welcome.

Stratous
06-29-2008, 01:33 AM
need more information about your cell design, but it sounds like you have already answered your own question. Baking Soda is not as good as NaOH or KOH. Aluminum oxodizes to rapidly and will not work with the above mentioned chemicals.

volomike
06-29-2008, 03:22 AM
Baking Soda is not as good as NaOH or KOH. Aluminum oxodizes too rapidly and will not work with the above mentioned chemicals.

Had to Google on those chemistry symbols. Never took chemistry before. That translates to Lye and Potash. Thanks for that -- didn't know it. I hear most people using Baking Soda on the web, and a few using 100% Vinegar.

Ronjinsan
06-30-2008, 07:07 AM
Eventually you will try lye and find out that the disadvantage is handling the stuff but the advantages are less heat and better production!

volomike
06-30-2008, 10:27 AM
Eventually you will try lye and find out that the disadvantage is handling the stuff but the advantages are less heat and better production!

Sounds like a bad day for the guy who uses lye and his bubbler or electrolyzer explodes for some reason. You then not only have HHO to worry about -- but a lye burn.

So we're going to go with potash. To me it doesn't seem like HHO production is that hard to do -- it's the control of everything else that is the largest issue, such as overheating, melting, shorting out, and the tremendous vacuum of the engine.

howtomakeitwork
06-30-2008, 11:15 AM
hello everyone, I have been looking for a forum to join about hho systems and was happy to find this one.
We made our own system, and installed it on our jeep, only to find we are getting worse gas millage. So, that is why ibegan looking for forums, maybe figure out what we did wrong. A buddy of ours hooked one up to his 2006 NIssan quest FAMILY van, and wired it into his computer by accident, well $2500 later realized you have to wire the system into its own fuse. Lesson learned.

Stratous
06-30-2008, 11:20 AM
hello everyone, I have been looking for a forum to join about hho systems and was happy to find this one.
We made our own system, and installed it on our jeep, only to find we are getting worse gas millage. So, that is why ibegan looking for forums, maybe figure out what we did wrong. A buddy of ours hooked one up to his 2006 NIssan quest FAMILY van, and wired it into his computer by accident, well $2500 later realized you have to wire the system into its own fuse. Lesson learned.


Welcome to the group, I am sure there is enough knowledge floating around here to solve your problems. You are not the first person I have heard of the has gotten worse MPG with the HHO system installed. Its not a normal occurance. As for your buddy, OMG what an expensive mistake!!!

Wako216
06-30-2008, 07:45 PM
hey guys just wanted to say hi, i recently got into hho cells and actually bought one off ebay to see what the fuss was all about, well me being a tool and die maker of course i was appalled by the quality of it, just some light switch plates held together by two 1/4 20 bolts in a pvc pipe, now i was salty at first feeling ripped off but then i realized this was a start, a way for me to make something better and then sell the inferior product to my friend and the whole cycle would begin again, so i come to your community humbled and wide eyed searching for knowledge, my project car is a 1992 olds mini van (the shuttle as i have come to know it) with a 3.8 l v6 in it it currently gets about 15mpgs. my goal is 25 and my dream is 30. my biggest concern right now is finding a proper canister or "box" for my cell is the 4" pvc a good way to go? I was thinking its definetly the easiest and also my other concern is living in cleveland what can i do about freezing, i have read some other threads on here that talked about warping the unit but this isnt really practical when its -20 and you have a kid and bags to bring in or when your running late for work, I know its a problem we all share but any input would be helpful, oh and if i do the 02 sensor mod (matching the voltage to pre hho levels) do i still have to do the maf mod? ive basically decided on a -nn+nn-nn+nn- setup but not sure on how many cells yet. k well i have to go like i said just wanted to say hi and throw those two things out there, please comment i look forward to learning and sharing with you guys and who knows maybe some day well all be rich lo, and if any of you are around cleveland area and need some machining done hit me up.

Ronjinsan
07-01-2008, 02:57 AM
Hi Wako and welcome! I dont think I will make it to Cleveland this year as CApe Town is a bit far but I'll bear it in mind. Think about your plate config! -nn+nn-nn+nn- What a waste..... shuffle it round in your head a bit and remember that its the negative plate you want to produce best, with as many neutrals as possible, ideally 3 or 4!
+nnn-nnn+ is the only one I use, I found it to be the most efficient as the single negative produces well on both sides and the neutrals keep the heat factor down!
All the best!

greuvin
07-01-2008, 10:59 AM
Hi All,
New to this board. Greetings to everyone!

Newly installed dual jar HHO (ss wire wrapped on plexiglass tower) unit just installed in my 2002 Subaru Outback. I'm only seeing 2-3 amps of current draw here and using distilled water with 1 level teaspoon of baking soda in each jar. Not getting any positive results after half a tank. Actually, engine runs exactly the same as before.

Does look like there are lots of bubbles in the jars, though.

Any advice? ideas?

Thanks for all your help.

Tom

PS. I have a pic, but the file is too large to upload.

Wako216
07-01-2008, 09:47 PM
thanks ron, i see those negatives on the ends are just being wasted ? is that what you mean? now with your set up are the nuterals basically converted to negatives then? why would one negative with only two sides be better than three negatives with six sides? also i have read that it only takes about 2 to 2.5 volts to produce hho if i was to step down the 12v in my car to that voltage would running a +-+-+-+ setup be more efficent? assuming lower voltage means lower heat? thank you for your help and knowledge

Ronjinsan
07-02-2008, 03:34 AM
The trick is to get the voltage down and keep the amperage up! Have a look at Stratous's new double cell with pics and then think of the same thing double! That would be pretty close to a perfect setup! Oh yeah and you are correct the negative plate works more efficiently on BOTH sides....dont ask me why but i have spent a lot of time measuring it!

computerclinic
07-02-2008, 11:22 PM
Hello all,
My name is George and I am located just outside of Tulsa, Oklahoma. I am an MCSE by trade and Pilot by play. Got a bad cramp when fuel hit $3 a gallon, and got sick when it just kept rising so I decided to explore additional alternatives.

I am really into alternative energy, and right now our automotive energy needs outway all others that my family and I require. I collect veggie oils and other stuff to produce fuel for my beastie (98 RAM 2500 Diesel) and have been reading alot about HHO. Now my focus is learning to use fuels more efficiently...So far, this community has provided me with a wealth of info and I hope to reciprocate the help through the experiments and experiences that I gain as I venture into Hydroxy. THANKS IN ADVANCE FOLKS!

mario brito
07-08-2008, 07:43 AM
Hello everyone :)

first i would like to say that English is not my natural language, so please forgive any mistakes :)

my name is Mario and i live in Portugal

i drive a 1996 Renault Clio 1.2L V4 Petrol 60HP

i'm trying to read all i can about this subject and i'm going to build a test unit in a few weeks

currently i'm doing :

city : 7L/100Km -> 33.6 mpg
road : 5L/100Km -> 47.04 mpg

i'll post any results/problems, etc :)

thanks

Ronjinsan
07-08-2008, 07:45 AM
Welcome Mario....looks as though your car is running on air already!

lou
07-08-2008, 08:07 AM
Hi my name is Lou, I live on the surface of the sun "Phoenix". I'm very new to this in fact so new I haven't placed an HHO system in my rig. But that will change tomorrow, it appears I opted for the Yugo version. Thinking I want in on some plate action....yea.

It will be going into an 89 Chevy step van (like a bread truck)
350ci short block it's a work horse.

PAPAFIXIT
07-08-2008, 08:16 AM
Welcome Lou,
I once spent a week on " the surface of the sun " no desire to return any time soon.

lou
07-08-2008, 08:41 AM
Welcome Lou,
I once spent a week on " the surface of the sun " no desire to return any time soon.

come back on Christmas when it's 75 out ;)

mario brito
07-08-2008, 12:07 PM
Welcome Mario....looks as though your car is running on air already!

LOL :)

it's quite common here :) small engine :)

i was looking to buy a small 1.4L V4 TDI ( Turbo-Diesel ) wich can easly do 4L / 100Km -> 58.8 mpg, but if this works well i see no need to invest in a new car

thanks

SlipperyNinja
07-13-2008, 04:37 PM
Hey folks! James, Michigan, 97 Jeep Wrangler...mostly reading and learning so far...got a peanut butter jar with a couple zinc plated bolt/washer/nut combos sitting on the bench getting power from an energizer battery charger providing 16v @ 6a...no where near ready to start tuning/measuring/installing/enjoying(gotta find that 316L)....kinda just sitting back and watching the hard work get done...not to say i don't think of some of the coolest options for us to ponder, but more on that elsewhere...just thought i'd check in...

Stratous
07-13-2008, 04:55 PM
Howdy slipperyninja, welcome to the forums.

Painless
07-13-2008, 07:44 PM
I've posted a couple of times already, but thought I should introduce myself too.

My name is Russ, I'm a computer techy by trade with a strong interest in anything electrical, mechanical, scientific etc. I own a 2006 Dodge Ram with a 4.7L v8, I love my truck and losing my job last year and moving to another with lower pay has made things real tight along with the gas prices rising. Currently, I can get about 18mpg on average from my Ram, I have a 40 mile each way commute to my job, most of which is highway driving.

I've been researching HHO for a month or two now and am ready to start acquiring bits and pieces to attempt my own build. I know that the ECU is going to be a tough hurdle on my truck, but I'm hoping that HHO can help me keep my truck on the road and ease the pressure on my wallet.

Stratous
07-13-2008, 08:14 PM
Howdy painless, welcome to the forums

scottyhho
07-15-2008, 11:37 PM
Hi all. Me and some frienfds have been working on a generator set out here in Utah for a bit now. I used 6 5 inch SS bolts with 1/2 inch F-16 grade SS tubing over the bolts with a bubbler and an in line flash suppressor. I just found out that lowes sells Sodium Hydroxide. It's called Roebic® 2 Lbs. Heavy Duty Crystal Drain Opener. Should work a lot better than baking soda (cooler).

scottyhho
07-15-2008, 11:38 PM
Oh yea, i will be installing it in my car in two weeks.

bobcampbell
07-17-2008, 01:26 AM
My name is Bob and I drive a one ton Dodge Cummins diesel in Northern CA. I stumbled across HHO last Friday and have already built a Smack Booster. It's producing about 1 liter per minute at about 20A. I'm having some trouble finding a good place to install it, as the engine compartment is full. Tomorrow I will slide under the truck to see about fastening it to the frame underneath.

I just found this forum tonight! I’m really excited about HHO.

bobcampbell
07-17-2008, 01:29 AM
Howdy painless, welcome to the forums

Where did you find room to install it?

Painless
07-17-2008, 10:18 AM
I haven't installed mine yet, still working on getting materials together (due to financial limits more than anything). My Ram has a gas engine, which is a lot less crowded than the cummins diesel HD's. There is a lot of space behind the front bumper that you could make use of, it would also attract good airflow there.

Fury
07-26-2008, 10:48 PM
Hi all, I am Chris, and live about an hours drive, north of Sydney, Australia. I have been looking into HHO for 6 weeks or so and now have a friend who is converting a Toyota "Troupie" - with good results so far.

I have a turbo Subaru - with WRX engine, but have not been able to find much info on the conversion of Turbo engines so far. As the majority of HHO conversions seem to rely on negative pressure - thus sucking in the HHO gas, Positive pressure - turbo boost, would want to back feed into the generator - or maybe I am wildly worried about nothing...? Also, I havnt seen ( so far) an accurate description of measuring the output of HHO generators. I have seen descriptions from .5 ltr to over 5 lts - but how is it measured by the average back yard constructer like myself.

I know how to get Bubbles - even lots of them :eek: but measuring is another question...

Pleased to be on the forum, looking forward to finding out more about you all, your conversions and your achievements.

Any feedback / links to other areas that could address the above issues is welcome.

I know this works, I just have to integrate this into my life - and start saving my bank account - and the environment. :)

Stratous
07-26-2008, 11:03 PM
Welcome Cris, most of the answers or at least partial answers are here. Most of us are just as you, still seeking the best way. Welcome to the search.

candyman55
07-27-2008, 07:55 AM
Hey guys,
My name is jeff, I am a cabinet maker by trade with a sizable shop. I am from Proctor, WV. Drive a 2007 Toyota Tundra which gets 15 to 16 MPG and commute 30 miles round trip to work per day.

I have been reading the forum for a week or two. I am also a member of a couple others. I have been working on generators for a couple of months now.

It seems like the more I know, the less I know. I am working on a 6 cell tube type now, and it seems to be working better than the plate or the washer cell generators I have already built.

I know that the generator will be OK and eventually I will get it to produce in the 2 to 3 LPM range. But it is the truck ECU that has me concerned.

Hope I can be of help and learn a little.

Cheers

Tkyn10
07-29-2008, 01:17 PM
Hi all im Dave from long Island N.Y. pleased to meet you all. I work in EMS by trade and I Just heard of HHO from a friend who was to scared to try it. Going to try my luck with a 2005 Ford Escape 6cyl 3.0 L . I will post my results as soon as i get the kinks worked out:D

c02cutter
07-29-2008, 02:00 PM
Hello all, Eric here, and live northeast of Cleveland, OH.

I have been playing around with cells for over a year, but still haven't put one in my 1989 SHO Taurus. Not a fear issue, Just having too much fun playing around with it so far. I work in the industrial laser cutting field, and as such have been working with companies working on fuel cell technology for quite some time. Interesting to see them change designs every other week. I will be putting a system in my car in the near future.

jelco
08-03-2008, 08:35 PM
hello.Im David and im in western australia.ive got a landcruiser 80 and a toyota hilux.we live in the country and ive just heard about hho,im getting all the facts and ideas before i try and make one.diesel here at the moment is AU$1.92\ltr.i think that works out to around AU$7.72\gal.i need to do something

smartHHO
08-16-2008, 09:16 PM
Hello, Eric here. I live in Round Rock, 20 miles North of Austin Tx. Been doing research on HHO since I was out in Singapore working. I work in the semiconductor and have electrical robotics degrees. Been doing much research and plan on getting my first cell up and running hopefully this month.

Bossman
08-17-2008, 02:55 PM
Hi yawl, Scott from McDonough Georgia. I live near Atlanta Motor Speedway. I somehow got into a conversation about the fuel prices & this man told me about HHO. Came home Googled the name & started searching & reading. Built my first generator out of a 4x4x4 Junction box from Lowes & SS wall plates. Have aquired SS plates & sticking with the same 4x4x4 box because of space. All this is going into a 1996 GMC sonoma 4 banger.Just finished the mounting brackets today,perfect fit :). Now I have concerns about the o-2 sensor & tricking the computer. I tried the drain cleaner from lowes & that is some nasty stuff, got some splashed on my lips. Potash or baking soda will be my additive from here on out. Found this forum while searching for HHO forums. Look forward to learing from others.

cully
08-17-2008, 03:40 PM
hello all i have posted in the forum already but i thought i best introduce myself here too.

my name is Paul i am an electrical maintenance engineer i live and work in the UK.
I'm currently in the processes of building a 18 plate booster based on the smack design (2 x 9 plate in parallel)

i drive a Peugeot 1.5ltr diesel currently get around 49-50 mpg
but as the price per gallon of diesel here is currently £6 gallon (4.5ltrs)= $2.49 per ltr
am looking at trying to reduce my fuel bill

looking around the forum it looks like my 1.5ltr is a small toy compared to some of your American trucks :D

Butch
08-17-2008, 08:40 PM
Hi all, I'm Butch a Musician from Florida. I have been reading up on 3 different HHO Forums for the past 3 weeks.. Planning on building my first HHO-Generator soon :) .. Im glad to see that everybody is getting into this
type of Fuel :D ... I drive a 91 B250 Dodge Van V8 318 , it gets 10-mpg :mad: ... Good Luck Everybody :cool:

Lascalll
08-20-2008, 10:23 AM
Hello !

Nice meeting you all. I'm building a generator and been reading and searching for the last month... Had lots of findings since I've been starting this research.

I own too many cars. 3 Jetta 4 doors (2 diesel, one gaz). A Suzuki Esteem, a new Dodge Avenger 2008, a Ford Focus 2.0 L and a Pontiac Trans-Am with a GM 302 cu.in. This one's my baby. Owned it for the last 20 years... Ok, now witch one do I pick up for the first tests...

Tough of using the old ones but then, I would have to drive around wasting time and money too calibrate and test the system...Why not use the one I drive to work every week. Just 200 km away... Perfect for best highway milage results. The winner, the Avenger 2008. Has 2.7 L V6. Is MAP sensor can be fooled easily, but I have no space to install any container. I will probably have to remove the Air box to create some space but I will figure a way. It will also look nicer driving around in a 2008 Water Hybrid then in a rusted jetta, lol... I already got most of the parts I need to build the generator (Plates, PWM, ampmeter, Nylon fittings, rods, ...) the only thing I'm missing is time to work on the actual generator and installation ... Can I buy this online too ?

The price of Gaz here is $1.30 (Canadian or USA) / liter. Was 1.50 last month. The advertised millage/gallon for the Avenger was supposed to be 39 miles per gallon on the highway. I'm actually running at 10 liter/100 km or 23.5 m/Gal us :confused:... Not even close to the advertised one...but hey, its a big car with a V6. Can't ask to beet a Toyota Echo with that...

I hope to get this 39 m/gal or 6 Liter/100 km. I would then save 8 liters of gaz everytime I go to work. This is about 10$ on 26$. Something around 38% economy... Let's hope I can achive that with HHO...

Nice Reading you. I found lot's of info & Links on this forum and I somehow hope to help people back around.

See you around :)

scrode
08-21-2008, 02:51 PM
Hi, my name is Scott, I live in Spanish Fork, Ut.
This is a great site.:D
I have a 2002 Honda Accord 163,000 miles on it, that I have installed a HHO generator on. 28 mpg before and around 40 mpg after. I have been running it for over two weeks. Only prob I have is the dam check engine light comes on ONLY when the wife drives it:rolleyes: (I have a efie installed on the map sensor). I built everything, only cost around $40. I'm still trying to figure out what it is she is doing to cause it.

electrode setup +nn-nn+
15-20 amps
approx= 1 lpm
distilled/baking soda
dual map sensor enhancer (water4gas design)

Just a question, do I still need to mess with the O2 sensor as I have a map enhancer?

DaneDHorstead
08-23-2008, 03:52 PM
hello everyone, I have been looking for a forum to join about hho systems and was happy to find this one.
We made our own system, and installed it on our jeep, only to find we are getting worse gas millage. So, that is why ibegan looking for forums, maybe figure out what we did wrong. A buddy of ours hooked one up to his 2006 NIssan quest FAMILY van, and wired it into his computer by accident, well $2500 later realized you have to wire the system into its own fuse. Lesson learned.

A few hints about wireing, that can save you a lot of grief..........



I opted to change out my battery, when I installed the generator. Choosing a marine style battery, I have both top post, and side post.

The top post hook up normally, with all the functions of my 2000 Grand Cherokee, but I tapped the side post, to feed the generators (I have three)...... Each only pulls 10 amps, but I can easilly add more, if wanted

I took a #2 wire (capable of 100 amps), and ran it through a constantly on rated solenoid, controlled by a toggle switch mounted next to the console. Because the MAP sensor enhancer, does not connect to any power source other than the line I interupted, the only item besides the ground on the generator, that needed wireing, was the power feed to the solenoid. For this, I tapped off of the headlight feed, and ran it through the toggle, and on to the solenoid, then to ground, with the other side of the solenoid wire.

From the solenoid, everything gors under the car, and re-enters the vehicle, just where the rear wheel well rises from the frame. I tucked both the wireing, and the HHO line between the wheel well, and the rear seat, to get to the cargo area, where the generators are.

As the wireing exits the generators, it runs to the wheel well, where I ground the negative, to the frame. I even took the time to run as much as possible inside the hollow parts of the jeeps frame, on the underside.

Note however, if you wire the same way, you need to be certain that you get a solenoid that is rated for constant use. It also is smart to include a LED, so you know for certain, the power is on, or off!

I chose this connection path, as it is all too easy to tie into something that could cause problems. Using the headlight circuit, I know there is no computer tied into it, and it is easy to locate.

Q-Hack!
08-23-2008, 06:28 PM
Howdy all,

I am Doug out of Marysville, CA. Just finished 20 years in the Air Force as a Satellite Communications Technician. My Last 4 years I have been working on the Global Hawk UAV. I still can't believe they payed me money to play with a really large remote control plane. :)

hydrotinkerer
09-04-2008, 12:48 PM
My name is Fred
I live in Corsicana, Texas. I've been a mechanic for 25+ yrs. Trucks and heavy equipment when my body was younger. I do automotive electronics/emission repair mostly now. I've been running HHO in my cummins turbo diesel for almost 3 months now. 19mpg base went to 23mpg. My setup is +nn-nn+ about .7 lpm at 13amps hot. I just drove truck yesterday for 6 hrs straight never got over 130F.:D

Stevo
09-05-2008, 03:31 PM
My name is Stephen. Goofball friends and family call me Stevo. I live in Alliance, TX (far North Fort Worth) and work in Southlake as a User Interface Technologist. In other words, I am a "do-it-all" front and backend web developer.

My interest here is obviously fuel economy, but also discovering new ways to increase efficiency in HHO production. I am a very "hands-on" sort of person when it comes to automotive maintenance and modification/experimentation.

The first time I heard about HHO supplementation, I was completely skeptical and my source had already proven to be shady so I disregarded the idea for 3-4 years. One day I received a call from someone who began rambling on about water powering your car... so I checked it out in detail this time and found a slew of scamsters and shady communities with empty claims and radical stories. This isn't all I found though. I did find this place, which has been very straight forward and realistic from the beginning. I do believe that HHO supplementation can be very beneficial to gasoline. I just don't think enough people look at the big picture and consider all the variables and research before implementation.

DaneDHorstead
09-05-2008, 08:12 PM
McGyver;

Please explain how you plan to separate the oxygen from the hydrogen?

I'm not trying to poke fun at the concept, as this is actually what a forum is all about.

There would be huge benifits if it could be done, and I'm sure it can, but short of allowing the vapors to settle (hydrogen being the lighter element), hydrogen would rise to the top.

However, that would require storing hydrogen, for hours on end (which can be extremely dangerous). Further, it would not be hydrogen on demand.

Another thought, is that the hydrogen atoms are so much smaller than oxygen atoms, so it might be possible to draw the smaller atoms through a sive, or filter of some type, that oxygen can not pass through.

In either event, a purer hydrogen vapor would deliver a far greater punch, and still would fire, as it is mixed with oxygen in the manifold, from the air filter.

But even two hydrogen atoms being approxomately 1/8 the volume of the single oxygen atom, a larger hydrogen volume, can be attained in an area less than half the total area of the oxygen atoms, and still pack ten times the punch!

DaneDHorstead
09-06-2008, 12:09 PM
Wako;

Neutral plates induct current, through EMF (electro magnetical force). Like a magnet, each plate takes on a positive and negative pole (each side being oppositely charged, with induced curent) the neutral plates side that is closest to the anode, adopts the cathode role, in the inducted plate, with its reverse side acting as the inducted anode (facing the cathode side of the next neutral plate, etc, etc.)

It is impossible to set up plates that are the same charge on each side, unless those plates are pole plates. As an example, in the setup +NNNNN-NNNNN+, each of the pole plates, are charged through a physical electrical connection to the assigned poles, and there is an approximate 2 volt drop in current between each neutral plate, towards the center negative plate. Applying 14 volts, the curent drop would be 14 12 10 8 6 4 2 4 6 8 10 12 14

However, because the neutral plate which shows 2 volts (from each direction), it will read as 4 volts with a meter.


Hope this gives you a better grasp of the concept.

BoyntonStu
09-07-2008, 08:14 PM
Wako;

Neutral plates induct current, through EMF (electro magnetical force). Like a magnet, each plate takes on a positive and negative pole (each side being oppositely charged, with induced curent) the neutral plates side that is closest to the anode, adopts the cathode role, in the inducted plate, with its reverse side acting as the inducted anode (facing the cathode side of the next neutral plate, etc, etc.)

It is impossible to set up plates that are the same charge on each side, unless those plates are pole plates. As an example, in the setup +NNNNN-NNNNN+, each of the pole plates, are charged through a physical electrical connection to the assigned poles, and there is an approximate 2 volt drop in current between each neutral plate, towards the center negative plate. Applying 14 volts, the curent drop would be 14 12 10 8 6 4 2 4 6 8 10 12 14

However, because the neutral plate which shows 2 volts (from each direction), it will read as 4 volts with a meter.


Hope this gives you a better grasp of the concept.

Oh OH!!

what is blue 2 connected to?

It should read zero Volts to Ground as presented.

Or, did you leave out 2 plates?

IOW Where is the Negative Battery connection?

In the electrolyte there are no Neutral plates.

Only metallic unconnected plates. I call them "U".

BoyntonStu

DaneDHorstead
09-08-2008, 02:25 PM
Oh OH!!

what is blue 2 connected to?

It should read zero Volts to Ground as presented.

Or, did you leave out 2 plates?

IOW Where is the Negative Battery connection?

In the electrolyte there are no Neutral plates.

Only metallic unconnected plates. I call them "U".

BoyntonStu
Stu;

There are a lot of missconceptions in this exploritory field of HHO....

As an example, some folks call the "cell" the entire electrode component, where others contend that the cell is actually the gap between plates...


Likewise, it is prettymuch agreed that the N plate is Neutral (also agreeable that, it could easilly be called U, for unconnected). I would agree with you, in respect that perhaps the U better describes the unconnected plates, as in fact once introduced to inducted currents, they essentially are not neutral, due to the EMF. Still, they are not connected to any pole plates, but do possess the anode, and cathode abilities (thus, they in effect, are not totally neutral)

In my explanation I mistakenly called the 2 a Neutral plate, when in fact it is the negative

My appologies, I made a typo, and didn't catch it (Im very good, at making typos).

As for the Negative cell plate reading "0", the entire circuit wouldn't work!

If you have absolutely no voltage out, you have no circuit, at all. In order to have a circuit, it must flow. If there is no current out, it is essentually bankrupt, and therefore nonexistant.

In life, we can actually get away with having nothing in the wallet, at least for a short time, as long as we avoid the bill collecter. But with a bank account, as well as an electrical circuit, once it hits a zero ballance, the account (and circuits) no longer exist.

But, even if you just had one cent, left in the account (and/or circuit), still exist.

In order to have a circuit, there must be at least a trickle of outbound current, or there is no completion of the electrical path (no circuit). And the whole device, will shut down.

As it is shown (given the correction that the 2 represents the negative connection, and not a neutral), 2 volts are gathered from each direction, making a combined 4 volts at that particular plate.

Another plate could be introduced, so there are two negatives, side by side, but they would still connect together, causing 4 volts total, at the negative terminal. Adding that particular plate, therefore is wasted material, and not needed.

If they don't connect together, there is no completed circuit for at least one of the sides (losing one entire bank of plates), and if a third plate is introduced between them, and the 2's actually do represent a Neutral (unconnected plates), then the end result is 0 voltage at the Negative, and again both circuits are bankrupt/lost, as there can be no flow, with absolutely no current present!

BoyntonStu
09-08-2008, 02:54 PM
Stu;

There are a lot of missconceptions in this exploritory field of HHO....

As an example, some folks call the "cell" the entire electrode component, where others contend that the cell is actually the gap between plates...


Likewise, it is prettymuch agreed that the N plate is Neutral (also agreeable that, it could easilly be called U, for unconnected). I would agree with you, in respect that perhaps the U better describes the unconnected plates, as in fact once introduced to inducted currents, they essentially are not neutral, due to the EMF. Still, they are not connected to any pole plates, but do possess the anode, and cathode abilities (thus, they in effect, are not totally neutral)

In my explanation I mistakenly called the 2 a Neutral plate, when in fact it is the negative

My appologies, I made a typo, and didn't catch it (Im very good, at making typos).

As for the Negative cell plate reading "0", the entire circuit wouldn't work!

If you have absolutely no voltage out, you have no circuit, at all. In order to have a circuit, it must flow. If there is no current out, it is essentually bankrupt, and therefore nonexistant.

In life, we can actually get away with having nothing in the wallet, at least for a short time, as long as we avoid the bill collecter. But with a bank account, as well as an electrical circuit, once it hits a zero ballance, the account (and circuits) no longer exist.

But, even if you just had one cent, left in the account (and/or circuit), still exist.

In order to have a circuit, there must be at least a trickle of outbound current, or there is no completion of the electrical path (no circuit). And the whole device, will shut down.

As it is shown (given the correction that the 2 represents the negative connection, and not a neutral), 2 volts are gathered from each direction, making a combined 4 volts at that particular plate.

Another plate could be introduced, so there are two negatives, side by side, but they would still connect together, causing 4 volts total, at the negative terminal. Adding that particular plate, therefore is wasted material, and not needed.

If they don't connect together, there is no completed circuit for at least one of the sides (losing one entire bank of plates), and if a third plate is introduced between them, and the 2's actually do represent a Neutral (unconnected plates), then the end result is 0 voltage at the Negative, and again both circuits are bankrupt/lost, as there can be no flow, with absolutely no current present!

Measure the voltage on the negative terminal of your car battery.

Place one lead of your voltmeter on the - terminal.

Where will you place the other lead in order to measure the voltage?


BoyntonStu

DaneDHorstead
09-08-2008, 09:00 PM
Negative battery terminal is ground, and is not expected to contain a charge, as it acts much as the earth, in dissipating current.

A positive charge in a car battery will not arc to the earths ground, as neither would an old eveready dry cell. Also house current, will not flow to an automobiles, ground terminal (excluding through the intentionally designed battery charger, which uses transformed (induced) current).

Each only works within its own system, and depends on the strength of flow (volts), to get the job done.

Similarly, if you take ten, or fifteen 100 ft long extension cords (hooked end to end), and try to run an electric device, a thousand or more feet from the power source, you won't get much done. The voltage drop is so severe, the circuit, is virtually dead. The current is still there, but it can't flow!

At the end of the path, there is no current left, to run the lamp, appliance, or tool, as it has been so weakened, by the voltage situation.

A power source must react to the ground within its own system, but if the voltage drop is so severe, that there is no flow to the current, there can be no reaction between positive, and negative.

Although the car's negative post is not actually connected to earth, it's negative capacity so far outweighs the positive charge, that spent current, disipates through the frame, much the same way currents need to be grounded, to the frame of an old TV, before working on it.

As an example, you should never work on a TV, even if it's been unplugged for 20 years, without first taking a long screwdriver, and creating a ground (to the chasis), from just under the large rubber seal, at the back of the picture tube. To do this, you do not have to plug the TV in, and in fact, you shouldn't plug it in, unless you have a death wish.

When the picture tube is grounded, it is very evident, as a loud enough spark will be perfectly adible.

Old radios are the same way. Capacitant currents disipate to the larger frame, becomming harmless, but only after they have been set free. In relation to thes appliances, the capacitant currents have been absorbed, from surrounding static.

And if you need to work on that TV years in the future, you will again have to ground the picture tube, as it will again absorb static current from the air (curent powerful enough to kill).

The HHO generators are in fact capacitors, as they cause currents to jump accross "poor conductors". Capacitors, are intentionally designed, to be poor conductors.

Argueably, the original man made capacitors, used a large glass bell shape, with metal foil on both sides (inside, and outside), but not touching each other.

Most everyone knows that glass is not considered to be a conductor, and was largly used as an insulater, for telegraph, and power poles. Glass does in deed conduct current, but very poorly (as a capacitor). Many items, not considered to be conductors, are used for capacitors, such as cardboard, cotton, ceramics, and the list is almost unending.

There are those who would argue that the very first man made capacitor, was the Arc of the Covenant. It was made with Tsecatia wood, and was plated with gold inside, and out, but it was said to lack but a very minute air gap, between the wings (and plates) touching each other, and if anyone were to touch it, they would fall dead.

It was dragged over static sands, decade after decade, using wooden poles to handle it.


HHO generator plates, in fact are capacitors, and capacitance will self dissipate, provided it has a path (circuit), But in the case where voltage has been dropped beyond the currents available strength, to bridge the last plate gap, it will either sit idle (waiting to build strength to make that jump), or it will wait until the pathway is bridged, such as grounding the picture tube in the TV.


Negative terminal in a house panel also, is grounded (shares ground with ganged neutrals, at the panel), which is a farce, as the so called neutral wire is not at all neutral, it is in fact, a duel ground wire.

As for the volt ohm meter, to the car battery, the positive pole, should read anywhere from 12 to 14 volts, but just putting the volt meters positive lead on the post, does not show any current at all. It is the other lead, that completes the circuit.

The only way it will display, is to complete the circuit, by grounding the other lead of the VOM. But, if there are not enough volts (VOM battery) to complete that circuit, it still will not show voltage.

It is the same, for the voltage drop, that has no current left, being 0 volts, at the negative.

There is not enough voltage left, to complete the circuit, as 0 volts are found at the final link, and the circuit is not completed.

Amps, is current, but voltage is the rate of flow. Zero flow, equals zero circuit.

In order to have flow, there must be at least a trickle of voltage left, at the end of a circuit.

BoyntonStu
09-08-2008, 10:20 PM
Negative battery terminal is ground, and is not expected to contain a charge, as it acts much as the earth, in dissipating current.

A positive charge in a car battery will not arc to the earths ground, as neither would an old eveready dry cell. Also house current, will not flow to an automobiles, ground terminal (excluding through the intentionally designed battery charger, which uses transformed (induced) current).

Each only works within its own system, and depends on the strength of flow (volts), to get the job done.

Similarly, if you take ten, or fifteen 100 ft long extension cords (hooked end to end), and try to run an electric device, a thousand or more feet from the power source, you won't get much done. The voltage drop is so severe, the circuit, is virtually dead. The current is still there, but it can't flow!

At the end of the path, there is no current left, to run the lamp, appliance, or tool, as it has been so weakened, by the voltage situation.

A power source must react to the ground within its own system, but if the voltage drop is so severe, that there is no flow to the current, there can be no reaction between positive, and negative.

Although the car's negative post is not actually connected to earth, it's negative capacity so far outweighs the positive charge, that spent current, disipates through the frame, much the same way currents need to be grounded, to the frame of an old TV, before working on it.

As an example, you should never work on a TV, even if it's been unplugged for 20 years, without first taking a long screwdriver, and creating a ground (to the chasis), from just under the large rubber seal, at the back of the picture tube. To do this, you do not have to plug the TV in, and in fact, you shouldn't plug it in, unless you have a death wish.

When the picture tube is grounded, it is very evident, as a loud enough spark will be perfectly adible.

Old radios are the same way. Capacitant currents disipate to the larger frame, becomming harmless, but only after they have been set free. In relation to thes appliances, the capacitant currents have been absorbed, from surrounding static.

And if you need to work on that TV years in the future, you will again have to ground the picture tube, as it will again absorb static current from the air (curent powerful enough to kill).

The HHO generators are in fact capacitors, as they cause currents to jump accross "poor conductors". Capacitors, are intentionally designed, to be poor conductors.

Argueably, the original man made capacitors, used a large glass bell shape, with metal foil on both sides (inside, and outside), but not touching each other.

Most everyone knows that glass is not considered to be a conductor, and was largly used as an insulater, for telegraph, and power poles. Glass does in deed conduct current, but very poorly (as a capacitor). Many items, not considered to be conductors, are used for capacitors, such as cardboard, cotton, ceramics, and the list is almost unending.

There are those who would argue that the very first man made capacitor, was the Arc of the Covenant. It was made with Tsecatia wood, and was plated with gold inside, and out, but it was said to lack but a very minute air gap, between the wings (and plates) touching each other, and if anyone were to touch it, they would fall dead.

It was dragged over static sands, decade after decade, using wooden poles to handle it.


HHO generator plates, in fact are capacitors, and capacitance will self dissipate, provided it has a path (circuit), But in the case where voltage has been dropped beyond the currents available strength, to bridge the last plate gap, it will either sit idle (waiting to build strength to make that jump), or it will wait until the pathway is bridged, such as grounding the picture tube in the TV.


Negative terminal in a house panel also, is grounded (shares ground with ganged neutrals, at the panel), which is a farce, as the so called neutral wire is not at all neutral, it is in fact, a duel ground wire.

As for the volt ohm meter, to the car battery, the positive pole, should read anywhere from 12 to 14 volts, but just putting the volt meters positive lead on the post, does not show any current at all. It is the other lead, that completes the circuit.

The only way it will display, is to complete the circuit, by grounding the other lead of the VOM. But, if there are not enough volts (VOM battery) to complete that circuit, it still will not show voltage.

It is the same, for the voltage drop, that has no current left, being 0 volts, at the negative.

There is not enough voltage left, to complete the circuit, as 0 volts are found at the final link, and the circuit is not completed.

Amps, is current, but voltage is the rate of flow. Zero flow, equals zero circuit.

In order to have flow, there must be at least a trickle of voltage left, at the end of a circuit.

Dane,

You really have to relearn electricity.

"Amps, is current, but voltage is the rate of flow"

Look at you AC receptacle.

Is there a Voltage between the wide slot on the left and the narrow slot on the right (ground hole below)?

Is there any current between the two when nothing is plugged in?

The Voltage is still there.

Is there any rate of flow?

Apparently, you have several misconceptions about the voltages in a cell.

Remember E=I X R or Volts = Current in Amps x Resistance in Volts

When you measure voltage, you measure between 2 points.

For example: Take a 1,000 foot of #10 AWG solid copper wire.

The resistance is almost exactly 1 Ohm.

Connect the long wire to a 1 Volt battery whose terminals are 1,000 feet apart.

You have a voltmeter with 2 - 500 foot leads.

First measure from 0 to 1,000 feet. 1 Volt

Next measure from 0 to 1 ft. 1/1000 Volt or 1 mV.

Now slide the test leads down a foot and measure the Voltage between 1 and 2 ft. Again 1 mV.

Keep sliding your leads down the wire to its 999 ft mark.

From 999 to 1,000 again 1 mV.

At the 1,000 ft point there is nothing at the left to measure from.

The last position on the wire is Zero Volts.

Back to the cell.

A single stack of 5 cells acts exactly like the wire above.


Study this a bit and get back.


I hope that this helps.

Boyntonstu

DaneDHorstead
09-09-2008, 11:59 AM
Zero volts is an assigned value, of ground, much as 0 degrees C. is an assigned value of freezing as compared to water, at specific gravity (sea level). These values change, given different altitude values, and although few people would think of it, that also applies below sea level, or other atmospheric conditions.

Man assigned the zero value, in order to gain a grasp on his understanding of it, much as the sun once rotated around the earth, which at the time, was understood to be flat.

Although the sun was later proven not to rotate around the earth, man needed to wrap his mind around a conception of it, which made sense to him.

The volt ohm meter works by measuring the value of currents, in a multitude of variances, be it amps,volts, mv, etc, as compared to that assigned zero value. The difference between the assigned zero value, and what the needle points to, can only measure the positive values. Unlike a thermometer, which graduates above, and below the assigned zero base value, which uses the freezing point, and boiling points of water, for assigns. However, measurements above and below the freezing/boiling points are not only possible, they are a very real probability, which mankind works with everyday.

Note also, that manking can not agree on those assignments, as we use values of F. and C, to establish our graduations, and even calculate some strange formulas, to convert one to another.

Current in the earth (negative in nature, by our understanding of it), is very real, and without it, weather situations such as ball lightning, and St Elmo's fire can not exist. In fact regular lightning can not exist without it, but just because we assign a negative respect to one side of it, does not mean it has no current value. What it means, is that deviationg from our conception of it, alters it to a point that is not commonly popular. Thus, it must be regarded as incorrect!

The earth and sky, play a balancing act, with currents, as they also do with water vapors, in their many forms.

If current only flowed in one direction (positive to negative), the sky would have run dry of electricity, long before mankind was even thought of. And if there were no currents in the (negative) earth, that interaction of currents, could not exist today. The same applies to cloud, to cloud exchanges of currents.

Negative currents do in fact exist, and interact with positive charges (and other negative charges) every day of our lives.

The balance of positive and negative charges range far beyond what any VOM can display, as the VOM measures only the top portion of the scale (from the "assigned" zero volt base point, upwards).

Based on the values of the VOM, the input value of current, must be divided by the number of plates, to come to a zero value, thus 14 divided by seven comes to 2 volts each, but in reality the volt drop of the last cell only gets to zero, as the slightest trickle of current crossed the finish line, which means that if it was dimished to zero even the smallest fraction, of an inch before crossing that line, the circuit was not completed.

Much like the messenger, that was sent 26 miles to get help for the greek army, who was being defeated at Marathon..... If the runner crossed the finish line, and died before telling the situation to the general, the war would have been lost, Instead, he collapsed and died after the telling of it, and help arrived to win the battle.

Magnets also have positive and negative values. Placing two donut shaped magnets on a small upright PVC tube, negative, facing negative, the magnets will not fall, one, upon the other. They repell from each other.

They repell each other, because even though both faces are commonly missunderstood to have no current values, in fact each does contain an equal and opposite value of opposing (negative) charges. Those values are enough to lift a 100 ton monorail off of it's tracks (or more), when properly applied. Further, using simple diodes, we can control which of those current forces we want to apply, so that with the flip of a switch, current forces can be made to attract or repell, simply by reversing which end of a coil, we wish to energise first.

The assigned zero value of the Negative battery pole, is based on a point of dissapation of currents into earth (or ground) situations. That does not mean, that currents are not in the earth, but they are not shown on the meter, as the VOM does not measure negative values.

It is simply designed to measure the difference in value, from the assigned zero base point.

If the negative pole were disconnected from the situation that started this discussion, the 2 value would register as a 4 (double the 2 value), when the VOM was placed at the 2 volt plate, and the VOM was also connected to the negative battery terminal. But not breaking that connection, zero is registered, as all current at that plate is dissipated, to ground.

Walking in stocking feet, accross a carpet, causes a small spark, when you touch a door knob. The door knob is not electricly charged, and neither is the carpet, at least not in the respect that we commonly think of circuitry. Although, one could possibly consider the wooden door to act as a capacitor, between the metal hinges, and the knob, but that doesn't explain the curent gathered from the carpet.

There is electric in almost everything around us, with far fewer exceptions, than realities.

And even poor conductors, act as capacitors, if placed between the proper charges (intentionally, accidentally, or in nature).

And to assign only positive values to it, is essentally, living in a still flat world.

While it is essentially true that the world only understands positive values, ignoring the fact that there are currents in the negative, is a groose misconception. But then virtually anything man has measured, has changed over time (speaking of time, would that have been BC, or AD?)

For every action, there is an equal, and opposite reaction. That especially holds true, when dealing with electric, and EMF.

I have worked with electricity for over fifty years, owning two elevator companies, and a motor repair shop. I deal with capacitance every day, in bi-directional motors, which also incorporate limit switch controls, a solenoid brake, and planetary gearboxes.

We use the same motor windings (both directions) at the same time, to pull heavy loads.

The capacitors, delay the secondary field, so the motor can start in a chosen direction, and then when the capacitor releases current, the motor responds as though it hit second gear.

Utilizing diodes, and relays, we can reverse the flow of current through the secondary field, by causing current to exit a motor coil, which would have been the entrance point, if the reverse direction had beed called for.

Running the motor this way, allows double the power, rather than only using half of the available motor windings, for a given direction. Controling voltage direction, and capacitance, allows twice the power.

BoyntonStu
09-09-2008, 12:34 PM
Dane,

I enjoy reading your philisophical bent on things.

Good thinking.

It took a lot of writing to get to:

"If the negative pole were disconnected from the situation that started this discussion, the 2 value would register as a 4 (double the 2 value), when the VOM was placed at the 2 volt plate, and the VOM was also connected to the negative battery terminal. But not breaking that connection, zero is registered, as all current at that plate is dissipated, to ground."

"Zero is registered."


That is what I was attempting to explain.

I agree that 0 Volts is a man made scratch on the Volts measuring stick and it is a reference point good from which other Voltages are measured.

Whenever you use the term - in a cell, that point is by common definition zero Volts unless you are using a negative voltage below a reference.

All ATX PC power supplies have negative voltages available.

Are you excited as I am about Painless's experiment?


Boyntonstu

DaneDHorstead
09-09-2008, 01:50 PM
Stu;

Note that I too love a good argument (exchange, challenge, or whatever you wish to call it).

I don't argue for just the sake of arguing, but to point out to others, that there is more than one way, to look at things.

In fact, our two viewpoints on this, are more alike, than different. However, I contend that even the extreme slightest of measurable distances from the Zero volt ground, there is still some slight voltage present, or contact with the negative can not be made.

It would be comparable to running out of gas three inches from the extent the gas hose reaches. While yes, you could push the car to the pump, it still requires an outside force to do so. But, likewise, it is almost a futile effort to argue the point.

Even a milivolt, can be divided a thousand ways, and without some slight trickle of current to make contact, with the negative, a circuit is not established. No circuit, equals no flow (equals no production).

One thing I know for certain....... we gave readers, something to think about!

To me, it is a debate, and to properly debate, you must be able to switch sides at the drop of a hat, and argue as venemently, as before.

There is truth to the flat earth comparisons, as HHO defies several laws of physics, which means they must be rewritten!

Throughout time, man has argued that he is correct, only to be proven wrong, on some very basic concepts. Universal laws had to change, and each time, we learned something new.

Stan Myers could have taught us a lot but oil decided to silence him.

And, if we were able to grasp the wonders, of Einsteins brain power........

I love a good chess game too!

I mean no offence, but love the challenge!


I know nothing of Painless's experiment.
Give me a link, or direction, to follow.

DaneDHorstead
09-09-2008, 02:13 PM
"Zero is registered"

"That is what I was trying to explain"

Stu;

I fully understood your argument, and for the most part I was leaning to allign with you, but I couldn't quite let go of the concept that even the slightest small decimile of a volt, must make the complete trip, to connect the circuit. Thus the marathon runner comment.

Note that the 26.5 mile run, to this day is still called a marathon. But if he hadn't lived long enough, to convey the message, the whole point was mute. Meaning, he was not yet 100% spent at the end, but damned near it.

EdCaffreyMS
09-09-2008, 11:53 PM
I've been posting on these forums for a couple of months now, but thought I'd better introduce myself...
I'm Ed, from Great Falls, Montana. I'm currently on my third incarnation of HHO generator. So far I've taken my 1987 Toyota 4x4 pickup (22R/5 spd with mods) from a baseline of 22 mpg, to 31.2 mpg. At first I was a real skeptic about this whole HHO thing. I remember thinking "snake oil" when I first heard about it, and then later making up my mind that I would never know, if I didn't try it. I'm now a firm believer.
My first efforts where with the Water4Gas design, then the Smack's booster, and currently, due to space limitations under the Toyota's hood, I used the Smack's internals in a 6x6x4" electrical box, with potassium hydroxide for the electrolyte. My attention has now turned to the "dry" cells, which I hope will be my next adventure.

Lots of good info and good folks on this forum! Thanks for being so kind and generous with your knowledge!

coffeeachiever
10-26-2008, 12:20 AM
I'm Coffeeachiever (Coffee for short) and I'm a paramedic in Tennessee. I've been researching hho fanatically for several months now and am on my sixth build. I think I have solved my thermal runaway problem and will finally be installing my unit on my 86 toyota (carbed) the day after tomorrow. I'm not sure what my milage is currently as I just cleared A LOT of carbon build up from my EGR pipe and my fuel economy has drastically improved.

My current unit is an open bath design in 4" PVC and two bubblers. My next build (for my wife's 96 Jeep Cherokee) will be a dry cell very similar to the one Zero and his gang are selling.

I wanted to share a simple fix I figured out early on. I use a clean out cap to seal my cell(s). I found that there is significant gas leakage around the cap no matter how tight I screw it on. To solve this I spread ring wax on the male and female threads for the cap. Excess is forced to the top and I simply wipe it off. It works like a champ.

I thank you all for all I have learned. I look forward to sharing my results and teaching others all I have learned over the past eight months.

Coffee

ashmir
05-25-2009, 10:11 AM
hi,im ashmir from malaysia too.Where do you live?

ashmir
07-28-2009, 11:39 AM
Hi,my name is ashmir,i guess im the youngest here.im 18 years old and start build hho last year and now going for dry cell.Im malaysian..I also have difficulty of finding the part..huh..

Drafty-01
04-09-2010, 10:55 PM
Hi, I'm Martin from New Zealand. I joined this forum a few weeks ago to find out more about HHO. I'm a mechanical engineer with an electrical bent (the company I work for sells large diesel generators for standby and prime power), for which I have a reasonably large hand in designing the installations for. Quite interesting work which I enjoy quite a bit.
The price of petrol (as gas is know here) is getting more & more expensive - another 6 cents/liter now. It will be NZ$1.90 per liter next week (Our dollar is about USD0.70 at the moment).
I've nearly got every component for a 5"x5" dry cell (my first build), so am looking for a short-cut for cutting gaskets out. I am using 3mm Nitrile, which is reasonably cheap and this thickness should allow plenty of flow. Just bought a small 1gpm diaphragm pump yesterday, so that should ensure an adequate flow, and hopefully long life. It even has a 35psi cutout!
I've found it takes quite a bit of time to get to know where to get all the materials from. We do have large hardware stores here, but most of what they sell is cheap tools & basic household supplies.
I drive a daily round trip of 105km, and do about 10.4L/100km, so any savings would be really great. Fuel use for my car has been documented by me for a couple of years now, so I should be able to see results pretty quickly - I hope.
I've read quite a few of the blogs on this site, particularly Painless' experiments in HHO. WOW! What a blog! So many things tried for such a small gain. A real tough ECU! I hope mine is easier. It's a Nissan Primera (G20 in the US). I bet that there are countless people that have learned so much from your successes & failures. You're one of the reasons I'm building a dry cell as my first build, and not a smack-type wet cell.
I've also got a couple of ideas which might work for where I live (it almost never gets cold enough to freeze here -we had icy roads two or three times last year). One is to reduce short circuit current through the electrolyte supply hole in the bottom of the plates by inserting a small piece of the gasket material into the hole so that it has the form of a split tube from end plate to end plate, thus decreasing the available path for any current through the hole, and possibly more evenly distributing the returned electrolyte between the plates. I haven't tried this yet, but it looks like a relatively easy solution to the short-circuiting-through-the-hole-problem.
Another idea is to make some sort of cooler, to keep the thermal runaway in check, by making a plastic cooler mounted in front of the radiator for the electrolyte. This could be made of HDPE gardening tube - the kind that garden irrigation systems are made of. HDPE conducts heat quite well for a plastic, about 2 - 3 times as well as PVC or polypropylene, so if there is enough of it, some 6-12 feet I reckon, cable tied to a piece of mesh in front of the radiator with the pump drawing the fluid through it into the drycell, it should stay cool enough to stand a bit more abuse that it would normally, and possibly increase production as a result - anyone tried anything like this?
Really glad I found this forum, as it is a wealth of information, inspiration and ideas - particularly to the moderators for all the work that they do to keep things going well.

Cheers,
Martin.

pwteng
04-29-2011, 01:25 PM
Poor White Trash Engineering. (http://pwteng.com)
and i run a mobile welding and mechanic service in the houston ,tx area and have designed a cell myself and learned alot about this and think its going to catch on and get really big before long but big money wont touch it cause its free energy and they want to keep people stupid and buy their gadgets (like this uria injector) where they can patent it and sell it so i'm into designing and manufacturing efficient cells that are stupid simple to maintain and sell them cheap to everyone and no i'm not going to patent it that would defeat the purpose its not my thing.
its free energy for everyone and if you dont want to build one i will sell you a good one thats easy to use

kurtis1971
04-29-2011, 04:22 PM
My name is Kurtis and i am very interested. I will be reading a lot now.

19TERCEL96
03-29-2012, 05:40 PM
Hi,
I found this site from a poster at a Toyota forum.
I built a wet cell back in 2007 and got into a divorce before I could finish my homework and install it in my 2005 Silverado.
Here it is 5 years later and I find (from reading this site) that the wet cell is outdated technology, or beginner stuff.
I have been learning a lot about the dry cell and am planning to built a 13 plate (-nnnnn+nnnnn-) cell.
I found a site that will cut-to-size 6"X8" 316 plates, no minum order, for $10.07 per pound, that is about $115.00 plus ground shipping.
I have to find either 3/4 to 1" plexy glass, or PVC for the ends.
I already have an amp meter and a 30 amp fuse, and a bubbler.
I have researched an EFIE that should fit my test car (1996 Toyota Tercel) and once I am satisfied with my results, I plan to transfer the set-up to my 2009 Hyundai Tucson.
I live in Connecticu, USA, and a few of my co-workers question me daily as to my progress, because I showed them my wet cell last week.
Thanks to all who have gone before me and shared their knowledge and experiences with the rest of us.

rider384
04-15-2012, 02:17 PM
Hi everyone, I'm cullen. I found out about hho whwn researching alternative fuel. I'm planning on an 11 cell dry cell and efei/map sensor emhancements for my a6 2.7 biturbo. Hoping to go from ~20 to 30+mpg with a good setup (but i realize this might be a stretch.)

I used to have a 240rwhp turbo miata so I know my way around cars fairly well. Hopefully this hho thing is all its cracked up to be!

hhagen_1
04-15-2012, 03:01 PM
So, I've already posted elsewhere, but I might as well give you all an introduction.

I'm an IT professional, working in a network engineering role. I love cars, I have 3 of them with 2 parked due to gas prices and not being happy with 15 mpg downhill with a good strong tailwind. I'm a bit of a sarcastic type, but I try to keep it in check. I found this forum because I am trying to learn as much as I can before taking the plunge and trying to build an HHO system (as the fact is, I am 600 miles away from home for at least another month).

I see a lot of the "buy our PDF now" links and it pains me to see something so valuable covered up in the skin of snake oil where no one wants to take a viable, valid technology and try it out. The fact of the matter being, what really got my looking at it is when one of my favorite Web shows did a deal on HHO and made it look to be unrealistic. It was at that point when I realized that they had totally missed a number of variables in the equation, so to speak. I am hoping that within a month or so that I will feel comfortable enough with seeing other's designs and structures and feedback to the point that I will feel comfortable taking the plunge.

OH and 1 more thing, advise and the words 'cut to the chase' are always welcome.

-Hooty

Hi I live in Colorado and got start with the HHO thing by a friend that told me about it. I have built 1 generator using a small mouth mason jar with distilled water and baking soda. The configuration I used is 4 plates one positive one negative and 2 in between with 1/8" spacing. it produces 1ltr a minute right now. I have a bubble tank just for safety. I have tried different mixes and the best is 1 quart of distilled with 1 1/2 table spoons of baking soda.
I have done a lot of research before I tried this. I also blew the lid of the first bubble tank by lighting of the gas made a big bang. I would be very careful with this.

jim131
07-05-2012, 07:41 PM
I just happened to find this HHO things by accidently.. Since I thought it is viable to use the idea so why don't I try.. I am not an affiliate of Water4Gas yet, but am looking forward to (not sure about the payment - don't have the credit card or what)..
For the electrodes, the best I could do is using guitar string no 1.. Never succeed using any other materials.. But you know, the guitar string is so thin, I don't think I got enough bubbles..
I use pure baking soda as the elecrolyte..
So what do you think?

What do you want to know about hho?
send me an email with questions.
there are several materials around and difference ways to construct
a cell.