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michael.su
08-14-2008, 11:24 AM
Hello all,
I've been experimenting with HHO for just a month or so with little success. I'm badly in need for some fresh Ideas.

1) My cell is running great I tried about 12 V draw first and had decent HHO production but no MPG gain.

2)I added a Dual MAF enhancer which I can only assume is working as designed because I can stall the engine or throw the "mixture too lean" code if I adjust too lean. Still no MPG change

3) added o2 extender and higher concentrate electrolyte (baking soda)
I am now drawing 16 amps :eek:and HHO production is very high. Without having any way to check accurately I couldn't say exactly how much but compared to a lot of videos I've seen HHO production looks good.
Still no change either way in MPG. It's exactly where it was when I started.

I have the SS plate design cell with 8 plates. I did not build it but bought it but is is well constructed.

:confused:

Any Ideas/tips would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

-Mike

Keith's Garage
08-15-2008, 02:13 PM
first thing, you need to make sure that the MAF enhancer is adjusted properly. Your goal is to get the mixture lean enough to save on gas but not so lean that it sets codes. You can check what the computer is doing by hooking up a scanner and watching data stream while vehicle is running. without knowing what is going on in the computer it's impossilbe to go any further.

BoyntonStu
08-16-2008, 01:10 PM
Hello all,
I've been experimenting with HHO for just a month or so with little success. I'm badly in need for some fresh Ideas.

1) My cell is running great I tried about 12 V draw first and had decent HHO production but no MPG gain.

2)I added a Dual MAF enhancer which I can only assume is working as designed because I can stall the engine or throw the "mixture too lean" code if I adjust too lean. Still no MPG change

3) added o2 extender and higher concentrate electrolyte (baking soda)
I am now drawing 16 amps :eek:and HHO production is very high. Without having any way to check accurately I couldn't say exactly how much but compared to a lot of videos I've seen HHO production looks good.
Still no change either way in MPG. It's exactly where it was when I started.

I have the SS plate design cell with 8 plates. I did not build it but bought it but is is well constructed.


Any Ideas/tips would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

-Mike


First: Do NOT use Baking Soda.

Repeat: Do NOT use Baking Soda.

Buy NaOH at Lowes (Roebic) or KOH on Ebay.

This might help:

Adding Hydroxy will LOWER MPG unless MAP/MAF enhanced.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvpAJ...eature=related

Great set of videos!!

Conclusion:

Hydroxy works IF it is implemented correctly.

BoyntonStu

:confused:

michael.su
08-16-2008, 09:05 PM
Good info guys. keep it coming.

About the "don't use baking soda" thing.........I have heard that a few times but everyone seems to stop short of an explanation. What's up with that?

I have NaOH but have not tried using it yet. I don't really like how Caustic it is so I figured I'd try my luck with baking soda first.

Will NaOH give me better HHO production with less power draw?

Stu, your link did not work for some reason. could you please try to post it again?

Thanks,

-Mike

Q-Hack!
08-16-2008, 09:43 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvpAJ...eature=related

Great set of videos!!



Looks like a bad link there.

BoyntonStu
08-16-2008, 09:55 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aREl0-nbB0Y

I hope that this helps.

BoyntonStu

Q-Hack!
08-16-2008, 11:37 PM
Mucho better... Thanks

BoyntonStu
08-17-2008, 07:13 AM
You are welcome.

What year ZX2?

What sensors are installed in your ZX2?

Are you using a resistor or a voltage type of MAF/MAP device?

How many O2 sensors are in your car?

Where do you inject the Hydroxy?

BoyntonStu

michael.su
08-17-2008, 09:18 PM
My ZX2 is a 99'. As for sensors..... I have 2 oxygen sensors, one before the Catylytic converter and one after. The 02 sensor before the cat is the one I put the spacer on.
I have a MAF sensor and No MAP sensor. The MAP/MAF device I have is built to Water4Gas specs, it has resisters, 2 pots and a switch for city/highway settings. Also it has a switch for original or enhanced (bypasses the pots)
The only other sensors I can think of that my car has are a Knock sensor and an air charge temp sensor and a throttle position sensor. I'm not sure if any of these could sabotage my sabotaging..... lol
I was also wondering if in addition to the MAF enhancer and the 02 spacer, do I need to control the 02 voltage too?
My car also has something called variable camshaft timing or VCT.:eek: I'm not exactly sure what that consists of but it sounds a bit frightening with my knowledge of internal combustion engines.

I inject the hydroxy into the air feed tube after the air filter and the MAF sensor, just before the throttle body.

any ideas?

I'm not sure where to go from here.:confused:

-Mike

BoyntonStu
08-17-2008, 10:28 PM
My ZX2 is a 99'. As for sensors..... I have 2 oxygen sensors, one before the Catylytic converter and one after. The 02 sensor before the cat is the one I put the spacer on.
I have a MAF sensor and No MAP sensor. The MAP/MAF device I have is built to Water4Gas specs, it has resisters, 2 pots and a switch for city/highway settings. Also it has a switch for original or enhanced (bypasses the pots)
The only other sensors I can think of that my car has are a Knock sensor and an air charge temp sensor and a throttle position sensor. I'm not sure if any of these could sabotage my sabotaging..... lol
I was also wondering if in addition to the MAF enhancer and the 02 spacer, do I need to control the 02 voltage too?
My car also has something called variable camshaft timing or VCT.:eek: I'm not exactly sure what that consists of but it sounds a bit frightening with my knowledge of internal combustion engines.

I inject the hydroxy into the air feed tube after the air filter and the MAF sensor, just before the throttle body.

any ideas?

I'm not sure where to go from here.:confused:

-Mike

Mike,

Good work. Don't give up.

A suggestion; temporarily sideline MAF.

Concentrate on the O2 with voltage adjustments.

Test at 55 mph, not on acceleration, etc.

AFAIK ZX2's do not have instant MPG gauges.

Do you have a ScanGauge?

It sounds like you are capable in electronics.

Do you think it possible to hack into the OBD2 to determine instant MPG?

I suggest that you view this set of videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyEQyEDaBBs

I hope that this helps.

BoyntonStu

P.S. If yours is a 5 speed you should be getting about 27-29 MPG stock.

michael.su
08-18-2008, 10:09 PM
Stu,

I'm not ready to give up yet but I am a bit disappointed how much money and time I have put in already with no results. I'm just wondering if I have the wrong car for this. Damn Ford!

So I guess what you are saying is that I can have control over the mixture from the MAF sensor but at the end, the O2 sensor may be compensating for the adjustments I made and canceling everything out.?:(

By concentrating on the 02 sensor voltage......do you have a component in mind that I could use to control it or a schematic for one I could build?

I originally thought the MAF was the key to controlling everything. Is that the case with a MAP sensor? That shows you how much I know. But I'm learning.:)

You are correct about my car NOT having an instant MPG gauge. I've been relying on my tripometer and my fuel light to measure progress to this point. It 's pretty consistent but I have to go a full tank to really know what's going on.

I do not have a scangauge. I just have a code reader that I can check and erase codes with. At this point, I don't have the green to purchase one at $160. If I manage some gains and feel it will be beneficial I will consider getting one in the future. especially, if I decide to put electrolyzers on some of my other cars.They look cool!
Thanks for the link. The videos were very helpful. I can use all the info I can get.

My car is a 5 speed and I figured I get around 27 MPG with the factory setup. Somewhere in the 30's would be nice;)
I drive 60 miles a day.

I guess gaining control of the 02 sensor is next?

the question is..........what's the best way to do that?

EDIT: I forgot to mention: According to my calculations, I am making ~.5 LPM of Hydroxy. Is this enough production to see any results from a 2.0 liter 4 cyl?

Thanks again!

-Mike

BoyntonStu
08-18-2008, 10:44 PM
Mike,

I understand what you are saying.

Actually, the Ford ZX2 is a great car with a very good engine.

Especially the 5 speed.

A little tight under the hood, eh?

This video will show you how to get started with O2 for the least money possible, probably under $5.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgHJDD6UK0A

After you fool the O2 please report back.

I hope that this helps.

BoyntonStu

P.S.

Please expand on this sentence:

"I've been relying on my tripometer and my fuel light to measure progress to this point."


I don't follow you here.

michael.su
08-19-2008, 09:18 AM
Very tight under the hood.... lol
I had to put my Electrolyzer in front of the Radiator behind the bumper.

That 02 sensor is going down! hahaha
I will definitely report back. If all goes well I will be around to help others too.

"Please expand on this sentence:

"I've been relying on my tripometer and my fuel light to measure progress to this point."

I don't follow you here. "


I set my tripometer (mile counter) every time I get gas. I know from driving the car every day that I get ~ 279 miles on a tank before the low fuel light comes on. Even though I still have some fuel in the tank it gives me a point at which to measure success without running the car out of gas.:)

It's surprisingly consistent too. It just takes longer to see the results than the scangauge.

smartHHO
08-19-2008, 09:33 AM
To me doing it the old fashion way is much better. But waiting for the fuel light to come on is WAY NO GOOD on your engine. Brings up too much crap that is at the bottom of the tank and could end up clogging your fuel pump, and what not. Best idea for measure is to let the gas fill up until it clicks off. Make sure it clicked with your guage saying full on your dash. It will click off the same spot each time due to it does it when the gas is up a the spicket and there is resistance to the pump. That is why they say don't try and top off. When you do, you just get a little more in the tube and sometimes spill it out, which just costs you unneeded $.

Then do your calculations that way. Normally, you are withing .25 of a gallon, which is trivial on gas milage calculations. If you get a substaintial increase in milage, even 2mpg, you are doing something.

Good luck.

BoyntonStu
08-19-2008, 11:23 AM
Very tight under the hood.... lol
I had to put my Electrolyzer in front of the Radiator behind the bumper.

That 02 sensor is going down! hahaha
I will definitely report back. If all goes well I will be around to help others too.

"Please expand on this sentence:

"I've been relying on my tripometer and my fuel light to measure progress to this point."

I don't follow you here. "


I set my tripometer (mile counter) every time I get gas. I know from driving the car every day that I get ~ 279 miles on a tank before the low fuel light comes on. Even though I still have some fuel in the tank it gives me a point at which to measure success without running the car out of gas.:)

It's surprisingly consistent too. It just takes longer to see the results than the scangauge.

Michael,

OK That explains it.

Photos possible of your cell and installation?

BTW - OT Have you any problems (yet) with your a/c CCRM?

BoyntonStu

michael.su
08-19-2008, 01:47 PM
I will take some photos when I get a minute and post em up.

"BTW - OT Have you any problems (yet) with your a/c CCRM?"

You are either a mechanic or a ZX2 owner ....lol

Mine crapped out a couple years ago and I wired in an external relay.

They are nuts at Ford to charge $300 for another one that will inevitably burn out also because of poor design.

Instead a standard relay costs $10 and will probably out live the car.

The folks at teamZX2 hooked me up with that fix.

michael.su
08-21-2008, 12:49 PM
some Pictures as requested here:

http://hhoforums.com/showthread.php?p=9423#post9423

michael.su
08-27-2008, 10:40 AM
Ok, now I'm ready to give up.
I bought and installed An EFIE on my pre catalytic converter O2 sensor and changed my Electrolyte to sodium hydroxide. I seem to be getting a little better Hydroxy production with less current draw and definitely less heat now, though I have not taken an accurate measurement yet. I'm going to say I'm making just over .5 LPM now.

This is the EFIE I bought:
http://www.vadaenergy.com/products/04electronics/002_fc240dual.html

According to my voltage measurement before and after, The EFIE seems to be working correctly.

My measurements before and after the MAF enhancer also seem to indicate that it is functioning properly.

I've burned almost a full tank of gas and still seem to have gained nothing.:confused:

What's left?

:(