carb tuning...anyone?

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09-23-2008, 10:05 PM
vtec

carb tuning...anyone?

Hi,

do any of u know how to tune carb for HHO? (non fuel injection). I want to know how to tune carb like this guy does http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbJ7JIW1qlo . If im not mistaken, the guy in the video was doing air/fuel tuning. It is a place where we set how much air comes in.

I hope someone can teach me how to tune it, how to know if im doing good or bad, and whats the relation between HHO and tuning air/fuel ratio.

Please don't mention about my HHO units. Its 100% good, no leakage, good electrolyte (KOH). I only want to learn on 'engine tuning for HHO'. Especially carb tuning and the air/fuel ratio like the guy in youtube did. Thanks.
09-24-2008, 08:46 PM
Cadillac

Carburetor manufacture?
Model number?
Year, make and model of the car it is on?

Not all carbs are just mechanical. They actually got quite sophisticated in the later years of mainstream use in cars. Some need re-jetted others you will have to fool just like fuel injection cars.
09-26-2008, 01:32 PM
HiTechRedNeck73

I agree, if you can't identify the carb, at least give us the year, make, model, and engine setup that you have. the process is pretty basic even on early computer controlled carbs... but later ones are more difficult...

give use the basic info and one of us will be able to help...
09-27-2008, 11:22 AM
vtec

im not sure what is the carb model or specification as i don't know where to look for it. But you can see my car detail here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proton_Wira .

That is exactly same with my car, the only thing is my Proton Wira is carburated.

Another thing is,

- My Proton Wira is 1.5GL (it is different with 1.5GLi, where 'i' indicate injection).
- the gear is auto transmission
- no computer or anything like that. Just carburetor.
- there is no car/engine modification. Never been modified. Its still in original condition.

If that information is not enough, i hope someone can tell me where to look information for my carburetor specification. Thanks for ur help.

Regards,

Victor
09-27-2008, 06:36 PM
HiTechRedNeck73

what year?

where are you?

the car was built from 1995-current... I would bet you have some sort of computer in that car controlling the carb-device... do you have any pics?

I found an ECU for a proton wira on ebay... said it was for a 1.5L GL, it didn't give a year either... if you are correct that the "i" means injection, then you are probably right about the carb, but it is controlled... GM began messing with computerized carbs in the mid to late 70s and production models were available from 80 on.

the engine is made by Mitsubishi, and I'll be willing to bet they have messed with controlled carbs for at least that long...

another support to being computerized is that the US made OBDII a standard in 1996, even if you aren't in the states, most countries had OBDII adopted by 2000...
09-28-2008, 09:05 AM
vtec

what year?
- hmm..between 95 - 97 i think. i bought it 2nd hand but forgot the details.

where are you?
- malaysia

the car was built from 1995-current... I would bet you have some sort of computer in that car controlling the carb-device... do you have any pics?
- dun have any pic. im very sure there is no computer devise. Ok, i can provide pics, but where it is located and where do u think should i point my camera?

I found an ECU for a proton wira on ebay... said it was for a 1.5L GL, it didn't give a year either... if you are correct that the "i" means injection, then you are probably right about the carb, but it is controlled... GM began messing with computerized carbs in the mid to late 70s and production models were available from 80 on.

the engine is made by Mitsubishi, and I'll be willing to bet they have messed with controlled carbs for at least that long...
- how to know the carb is 'controlled'? is there any obvious things that i can see?

Regards,

Victor
09-28-2008, 01:17 PM
HiTechRedNeck73

post a pic of the engine compartment... with the air cleaner off is preferred. also, some close-ups of the carb.

another spot you can look is under the dash, usually on the drivers side...

http://www.obdtester.com/static/obd2...62f_type_b.gif

if you see a connector like this, then you have OBDII (on board diagnostics 2nd generation). if you are 1995-97 then I doubt you will have this one... but if there is a connector there, get a pic of it, I can try to ID it...

in the engine compartment, if you have more than a few wires going to engine's sensors then you have a computer. for instance, my brother has a 1967 ford mustang, it's got a carb with no computer. he has one wire going to the coolant temp sensor, and wire going to the oil pressure sensor and 2 wires going to the alternator... anything more than that, and I'd say you have a computer in there somewhere. most imports that I'm familiar with have the computer under the drivers seat... you could look there and see if there is a silver box with a dozen or so wires going to it. if you have any wires going to the carb at all, then you have a computer, and if you have o2 sensors, you've got to have a computer somewhere.

o2 sensors are oxygen sensing devices that would be mounted to the exhaust tube... there are at least 2 wires that would come from them, but can be as many as 5 wires. here is what an o2 sensor looks like...

http://www.bmwtips.com/tipsntricks/E...o2sensor1a.jpg

they vary in position, but usually they are after the exhaust manifold and usually before the catalytic converter (if you have one of those)... some makers put them on the exhaust manifold...
10-02-2008, 03:09 AM
vtec

5 Attachment(s)

This photos taken under the steer. This all i can see and there is nothing like what you mention.

Attachment 839

Attachment 840

Attachment 841

Attachment 842

Attachment 843

p.s - im trying hard looking for things you showed above but found nothing.
10-02-2008, 03:58 AM
vtec

2 Attachment(s)

At last i think i found my carb on the net. It is MITSUBISHI 4G15 (Auto) carb. Below is the picture.

Attachment 844

Attachment 845

IF it is a confirm that my car is totally carb-based, i hope you can tell me how to tune the carb for max HHO efficiency. Thanks.

Regards,

Victor
10-02-2008, 09:47 PM
VanHalen

If I give my carb specs could someone help me out(To post tommorow because I'm really tired). I'm having mixed results so any help I'd appreciate
10-02-2008, 10:24 PM
HiTechRedNeck73

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtec

At last i think i found my carb on the net. It is MITSUBISHI 4G15 (Auto) carb. Below is the picture.

Attachment 844

Attachment 845

IF it is a confirm that my car is totally carb-based, i hope you can tell me how to tune the carb for max HHO efficiency. Thanks.

Regards,

Victor

well, that blue wire near the top is the throttle plunger... it pushes against the throttle to bump up the idle when your AC is on or other conditions that may need a little extra idle...

it looks like it doesn't have any other computer hookups... I will try to search for some info on this carb... never ran across that one before... so before I get us both in trouble, give me some time to check it out... shouldn't take more than a day tops....
10-03-2008, 03:23 PM
Scooterdog

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtec

Hi,

do any of u know how to tune carb for HHO? (non fuel injection). I want to know how to tune carb like this guy does http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbJ7JIW1qlo . If im not mistaken, the guy in the video was doing air/fuel tuning. It is a place where we set how much air comes in.

I hope someone can teach me how to tune it, how to know if im doing good or bad, and whats the relation between HHO and tuning air/fuel ratio.

Please don't mention about my HHO units. Its 100% good, no leakage, good electrolyte (KOH). I only want to learn on 'engine tuning for HHO'. Especially carb tuning and the air/fuel ratio like the guy in youtube did. Thanks.

Turning screws only adjust's the idle mixture. You shouldn't need to rejet, as you should see a HP gain , meaning you need to press on the foot feed even less.

I've seen someone on here claim to rejet your carb, DO NOT DO THAT! you will burn the valves out. If the HHO is doing what people claim, you will only need to adjust your idle mixture.

To do that, hook up a tac(handheld) and slowly turn one screw in ward, usually clockwise,(if you have two on the carb) you will get an increase in rpm. When you lose about 2 or 3 rpm, back the screw out 1/4 turn. Now move over to the next screw, do the same. (MAKE SURE YOUR HHO IS WORKING! OR THIS WON'T HELP AT ALL).

When you get it set, burn a tank and see what you have. Although you can rejet one size, the decrease in gas, even though you are adding hho, will cause burnt valves if you go any more. Things get super expensive then.
10-03-2008, 07:55 PM
vtec

1 Attachment(s)

What do you think about my idea below? Correct or wrong? Thanks.

When we using HHO in our car, the carb get extra air get into it. So, we need to restrict the air a little bit by adjusting the air/fuel mixture screw (for non-injection).

Thats mean, we cannot use the car's factory adjustment. Let say, the factory manual said: "to readjust the air/fuel mixture, close the screw completely, then open it by turning 2 and a half turn."

So we cannot use this adjustment because that is the adjustment when we are NOT using HHO. So, when we use HHO, we need to closed it completely and open it by turning maybe 1 and a half? (this is where i get stucked:confused:...SOMEONE PLS HELP! THANKS!:))

Attachment 853
This is my carb. If someone know this carb, pls teach me how much should i turn the air/fuel mixture after close it completely. thx.

p.s - thats only my assumption. can't find any forum that detailed how to adjust carb (non-injection). not even water4gas.

p.s.s - i wonder if there is anyone who installed HHO in their non-injection car and can feel the difference even without doing some tuning...pls tell me.. TQ.

p.s.s.s - anyway, why need to restrict air a little bit when using HHO? whts the theory/concept? could someone explain? Thanks again!~
10-04-2008, 01:29 AM
HiTechRedNeck73

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scooterdog

Turning screws only adjust's the idle mixture. You shouldn't need to rejet, as you should see a HP gain , meaning you need to press on the foot feed even less.

I've seen someone on here claim to rejet your carb, DO NOT DO THAT! you will burn the valves out. If the HHO is doing what people claim, you will only need to adjust your idle mixture.

To do that, hook up a tac(handheld) and slowly turn one screw in ward, usually clockwise,(if you have two on the carb) you will get an increase in rpm. When you lose about 2 or 3 rpm, back the screw out 1/4 turn. Now move over to the next screw, do the same. (MAKE SURE YOUR HHO IS WORKING! OR THIS WON'T HELP AT ALL).

When you get it set, burn a tank and see what you have. Although you can rejet one size, the decrease in gas, even though you are adding hho, will cause burnt valves if you go any more. Things get super expensive then.

no offense dog, but shouldn't you make sure that if he has two mixture screws that one of them isn't for high speed... on carbs, usually you have one mixture screw for idle and one for high speed... at least in my experience that is...

to just start telling people to move screws is bad form... unless you are familiar with his exact model... and I didn't hear you say you were or that the screw he pointed out was for mixture... it could be for something else...

this is not to insult... just caution that the person on the other end doesn't know the difference to the right or wrong answer...

no sense in flying blind and taking others along...
10-04-2008, 01:36 AM
HiTechRedNeck73

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtec

What do you think about my idea below? Correct or wrong? Thanks.

When we using HHO in our car, the carb get extra air get into it. So, we need to restrict the air a little bit by adjusting the air/fuel mixture screw (for non-injection).

Thats mean, we cannot use the car's factory adjustment. Let say, the factory manual said: "to readjust the air/fuel mixture, close the screw completely, then open it by turning 2 and a half turn."

So we cannot use this adjustment because that is the adjustment when we are NOT using HHO. So, when we use HHO, we need to closed it completely and open it by turning maybe 1 and a half? (this is where i get stucked:confused:...SOMEONE PLS HELP! THANKS!:))

Attachment 853
This is my carb. If someone know this carb, pls teach me how much should i turn the air/fuel mixture after close it completely. thx.

p.s - thats only my assumption. can't find any forum that detailed how to adjust carb (non-injection). not even water4gas.

p.s.s - i wonder if there is anyone who installed HHO in their non-injection car and can feel the difference even without doing some tuning...pls tell me.. TQ.

p.s.s.s - anyway, why need to restrict air a little bit when using HHO? whts the theory/concept? could someone explain? Thanks again!~

vtec, when you adjust the mixture screw, all you are doing is reducing fuel... you are not reducing air... so essentially you are setting your carb to a higher than normal A/F ratio... you may need to reduce air as well... I've not been able to ID that screw yet... I would advise against messing with it until someone has verified the purpose of that adjustment... once that has been confirmed, the process that dog mentions is similar to the one I have always used, but with a slight adjustment... that last 1/4 turn, I usually use less... the 1/4 turn is to smooth out the idle as you are adjusting mixture... you may not need so much with hydrogen, and you should, once you get to that point, play with it to see what the best setting is... every engine is different...

I will be out of town tomorrow... it's my birthday and I'm going to be out of town... I will hopefully have the ID on that screw on sunday... sorry its taking so long...
10-04-2008, 08:07 AM
Scooterdog

Quote:

Originally Posted by HiTechRedNeck73

no offense dog, but shouldn't you make sure that if he has two mixture screws that one of them isn't for high speed... on carbs, usually you have one mixture screw for idle and one for high speed... at least in my experience that is...

to just start telling people to move screws is bad form... unless you are familiar with his exact model... and I didn't hear you say you were or that the screw he pointed out was for mixture... it could be for something else...

this is not to insult... just caution that the person on the other end doesn't know the difference to the right or wrong answer...

no sense in flying blind and taking others along...

You have a left bank, and a right bank, unless it's a 4cyl. Some carbs do adjust the air rather than the gas.

The screws on the bottom are for idle mixuture. If you have a tac, you will see which screws to turn at idle.

Quote:

one of them isn't for high speed... on carbs, usually you have one mixture screw for idle and one for high speed...

Your idle mixture scews will affect idle, it's that simple, the other screw is for idle adjustment, it will be higher up on the carb.

You adjust high speed mixture by re-jetting the carb.
10-05-2008, 02:38 AM
HiTechRedNeck73

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scooterdog

You have a left bank, and a right bank, unless it's a 4cyl. Some carbs do adjust the air rather than the gas.

The screws on the bottom are for idle mixuture. If you have a tac, you will see which screws to turn at idle....

well that is what I was warning about... :eek: you must have missed the post where he said the engine was a 1.5liter engine... I hope that it is a 4cyl considering the pistons would be real small if it was a v6 or v8...

I do believe that left and right banks are only on Holley carbs? correct?

well, I'm tired... going to bed... I'll finish this in the morning...
10-05-2008, 04:54 AM
vtec

Thanks for all the reply guys. Now lets back to basic. Let say, a car (non-injection) is in a good condition. After installed HHO, can we immediately feel the difference in both mileage and pickup? (before tuning the carb). Because i never see HHO manual that require us to do some tuning with carburetor other than tuning the HHO electrolyzer.

p.s - I've installed HHO in 2 car (carburetor) yet they still feel no difference..:(

p.s.s - pls don't ask about my HHO unit, its perfect. Guaranteed.:)
10-05-2008, 04:37 PM
HiTechRedNeck73

vtec,

I'm removing myself from this conversation... I haven't been able to find any info on your carb and I can't insure that my advice would be correct for your setup. most carbs are similar in design and function, but in this case we are in different countries with different products. here those 1.5s are all fuel injected, and I don't have access to the right information on that carb...

sorry I couldn't help and good luck with your setup...
10-05-2008, 06:08 PM
vtec

HiTechRedNeck73,

Its okay and thanks for your effort:). But last question, for carburetor cars. Assume that the HHO unit is perfect and working, can we feel IMMEDIATE significant difference after installing it? (before tuning). Thanks.

Regards,

Vtec
10-05-2008, 09:01 PM
HiTechRedNeck73

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtec

HiTechRedNeck73,

Its okay and thanks for your effort:). But last question, for carburetor cars. Assume that the HHO unit is perfect and working, can we feel IMMEDIATE significant difference after installing it? (before tuning). Thanks.

Regards,

Vtec

I have no idea... I'm working on one for myself but I am at least a month away from answering that question...
11-14-2008, 02:07 AM
vtec

Finally!~

Before HHO exist, all we can do to save on fuel is by put less gas in the carb. This mean, we should lean it. The cons is we can only lean it slightly because too lean will rise the engine temp.

After HHO exist, we can lean the carb MORE than just 'slightly' because of the cooling effect of HHO.

Is my theory above correct?

When i first learning about HHO few months ago, i only know that we should reduce the RPM to 600 - 700. But never did they mention that when installing HHO, we should put less gas in carb and thats mean, WE SHOULD LEAN THE CARB SLIGHTLY.

When i lean the carb (i want to play safe so i just turn 1/4 from original setting), there is great increase in acceleration. But I can feel that the temperature from the exhaust smoke is little hot than before. I know i'm going lean, but i think 1/4 turn (clockwise) is not going to make it too lean i guess. Correct me if i'm wrong.

Too lean will make the exhaust temperature too hot. But going lean is never make your engine cooler, so, how hot is too hot? and how hot is perfect?

Any answers/ comment are welcome. Thanks.

p.s - My car is 1.5 auto transmission and carb-based.

p.s.s - the key point here is, we need to LEAN THE CARB slightly after installing HHO and ITS REALLY IMPORTANT. Unfortunately, either its me who did not realized that or less people didn't emphasize this on their guideline.

p.s.s.s - before leaning the carb, i gain only 23% save after doing 100km test. Now i expect more.

-vtec-
12-31-2009, 08:34 PM
ProfessorRico

Genesis HHO and Suburban 350

I have a 1975 GMC Suburban with a 350 V-8 and a carburetor. No emissions equipment whatsoever, not even an O2 sensor. I added HHO two days ago and I can already tell a massive improvement.

I changed the metering rods on my Edlebrock carb, which leans out the top on the highway, and turned the idle mix screws in a lot. I used a bubbler and ran it through a flash arrestor.

I inserted the HHO bubbler output hose to the constant vacuum port (for service on the carb)...usually this port is capped and not used. It directly puts HHO into the venturi through the nozzle (with this brand of carb)! I made everything vibration-proof and ran it on a long haul.

What normally would take a half tank took an 1/8th of a tank. You tell me. no loss in power...I would even report an increase, considering how much I leaned it out. I think if you lean it out, but add the HHO to "fill the gap"...then it works best.

We will see. It's only been two days. :)

My opinion is to get something OLD in good shape and then add the accessories you want. Suburbans are cheap, plentiful, and you can haul anything. I might be getting better than 20 mpg for all I know. I let it idle so long (using gas) while testing that it wouldn't be accurate until the next fill up.

The only issue most people have with HHO is trying to accommodate emissions equipment...even though it would blow lower stats with HHO installed...ironic. Go old, if you like old vehicles. Fix it up with the money saved from buying something for 20k.

HHO...perfect.
01-01-2010, 09:02 AM
astrocady

In aircraft, we lean the engines all the time for cruise. If the engine has an exhaust gas temp gauge, you lean for maximum temperature, then enrichen slightly. If the engine doesn't have EGT, then you lean until you get a slight drop in RPM and then enrichen until the RPM returns to normal then a little more. Same is true with carburetor or mechanical fuel injection.

Note that I said "for cruise". We leave the mixture rich for take off and climb, because the engine needs extra cooling when working hard.

In a car, I would think one could use the same basic technique, only you would need to enrichen a little more to provide the extra cooling for those times when the engine is working extra hard. Not a lot, just a little. An aircraft may take 30 minutes to reach altitude, so they run a lot longer under full power then a car/truck does. Furthermore, even at cruise an aircraft engine is under a lot more load than a car/truck engine is.

Just some thoughts for consideration....

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtec

Before HHO exist, all we can do to save on fuel is by put less gas in the carb. This mean, we should lean it. The cons is we can only lean it slightly because too lean will rise the engine temp.

After HHO exist, we can lean the carb MORE than just 'slightly' because of the cooling effect of HHO.

Is my theory above correct?

When i first learning about HHO few months ago, i only know that we should reduce the RPM to 600 - 700. But never did they mention that when installing HHO, we should put less gas in carb and thats mean, WE SHOULD LEAN THE CARB SLIGHTLY.

When i lean the carb (i want to play safe so i just turn 1/4 from original setting), there is great increase in acceleration. But I can feel that the temperature from the exhaust smoke is little hot than before. I know i'm going lean, but i think 1/4 turn (clockwise) is not going to make it too lean i guess. Correct me if i'm wrong.

Too lean will make the exhaust temperature too hot. But going lean is never make your engine cooler, so, how hot is too hot? and how hot is perfect?

Any answers/ comment are welcome. Thanks.

p.s - My car is 1.5 auto transmission and carb-based.

p.s.s - the key point here is, we need to LEAN THE CARB slightly after installing HHO and ITS REALLY IMPORTANT. Unfortunately, either its me who did not realized that or less people didn't emphasize this on their guideline.

p.s.s.s - before leaning the carb, i gain only 23% save after doing 100km test. Now i expect more.

-vtec-
01-01-2010, 09:18 AM
astrocady

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProfessorRico

<snip>
I inserted the HHO bubbler output hose to the constant vacuum port (for service on the carb)...usually this port is capped and not used. It directly puts HHO into the venturi through the nozzle (with this brand of carb)!

I would suggest you rethink this.

Engine vacuum runs opposite of what you want with HHO. The vacuum is at its greatest when the engine is at idle and drops to zero at full throttle. This is contrary to the engine's need for HHO. Anyone that is old enough to remember driving cars with vacuum-powered windshield wipers will know what I mean -- going uphill they almost stop but when going downhill they go like a bat our of hell.

If, on the other hand, you introduce the HHO between the air cleaner and the throttle plate, the venturi action there will increase as the airflow into the engine increases, which is exactly what you want.

This I have verified. I have a scrubber/bubbler mounted about 6 inches from my air intake hose, and I can unhook my HHO line and as I increase the engine rpm it will bubble just from the venturi action sucking in air though the open fitting.

I have given some thought to how to increase this venture action, but everything I've come up with involved installing something inside the air intake hose -- something that could possible come loose and end up being ingested by the engine. Still thinking though, but I'm not really sure it's needed.
05-28-2010, 07:57 PM
ProfessorRico

Venturi HHO Injection

Yes, that is what I did. The service port on the Edelbrock carbs is made differently than other carbs (so I was told, then I googled it for a few minutes), and the service port vacuum is high at cruise. The truck I put it in had an option for a Vac gauge in the cluster, so...that could actually measure it. The pictures on my page show you exactly where I installed the output line.

I have a lot of pictures here: Alternative Fuel Suburban

I should note that it is all done for less than 80 bucks or so. Some people are ribbing me for not adding more generators, or not going 'dry cell'...and eventually I will. Right now, it is just an experiment.
05-28-2010, 08:31 PM
ProfessorRico

Thanks! I have done a ton of work to it. I could have found better examples of Suburban to work on...but the rack, and not having to deal with a Check Engine light helped the decision.

Eventually, I would like to build a generator about the size of a car battery, and use the -NNNN+NNNN- setup. Or the positive on the outside. The one I have now is really putting out a lot of gas (with fresh electrolyte) with that setup.

Right now, I am getting the A/C fixed. Phoenix, AZ in June. Hopefully the front and rear units still work. Just needs a compressor.

I am trying to get my hands on one of those Propane kits. I saw one on the bay for $600, and it bolts right on top of the Edelbrock 4-barrel I have now. Mount a tank, run lines, done.
05-29-2010, 09:15 AM
lhazleton

Professor,
Glad to see things are working for you. If and when you do build a drycell reactor, don't go with 4 bi-polar plates. Like Koya said, use at least 5 per stack.
05-08-2012, 12:54 AM
Gatech

Hi to all.

I leaned a LOOOOOT my Carburettor, external jets, and main jet (that was inside). My car lost power, and became slow, but I got 50%....

How to test if I'm leaning it too much and can be dangerous?.

Regards.
03-02-2013, 05:49 AM
rayboy7

Don't you folks ever actually Answer any Questions on this site???
I looked at sever topics I needed to know about, and found just more Questions.

At least share what knowledge you have instead of Frustrating people.

Thanks
03-02-2013, 01:23 PM
myoldyourgold

Sorry but most of us have to make a living and are limited in time we can spend. Not only that there are lots of different types of carbs. What you can do with one you cannot do with the other. To find someone that is an expert on all of them will be a real problem.

Now here is a little help. To lean out most carburetors requires either a jet and or a needle change. It is my experience that this works but will only give you gains in one range of engine demand unless you are very skilled. It also makes the car run like doggy doo without HHO or not at all. You can achieve a similar result without changing anything but just the right volume of HHO for the engine demand that you drive in most of the time and turn off the reactor in lower engine demands where you do not need it using a switch on the throttle linkage. A slight adjustment to timing might be needed. This way you will still have a vehicle that runs properly if the HHO is off without having to take your carburetor apart. Gains are between 15 and 30 percent and more in rare cases depending on the engine and a lot of other things.

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