DC voltage pluse controller

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01-25-2009, 02:38 PM
yellowcat

DC voltage pluse controller

Can anyone tell me how to build or were to buy a controller that will let me pluse 12 to 48 volts DC output,30 amps, from 0 to 500 times a second.Input would be 12 to 48 volts DC.The amps are not that important,they could be as low as 1.5 amps only output.I got a book on Brown's gas that says you need to pluse (on and OFF) the DC voltage at 240 or higher per second to get maxium production.If I can only input from 115Ac to get this kind of controll,that would work also.(Use a converter)Been 40 years scince I have done much in the way of electronic circuts.12 volts DC 1.5 amp output would be something to work with ,but I would like to be able to try higher voltages and amps.Any help would be appreciated.
Thank you
01-25-2009, 05:09 PM
Q-Hack!

Quote:

Originally Posted by yellowcat

Can anyone tell me how to build or were to buy a controller that will let me pluse 12 to 48 volts DC output,30 amps, from 0 to 500 times a second.Input would be 12 to 48 volts DC.The amps are not that important,they could be as low as 1.5 amps only output.I got a book on Brown's gas that says you need to pluse (on and OFF) the DC voltage at 240 or higher per second to get maxium production.If I can only input from 115Ac to get this kind of controll,that would work also.(Use a converter)Been 40 years scince I have done much in the way of electronic circuts.12 volts DC 1.5 amp output would be something to work with ,but I would like to be able to try higher voltages and amps.Any help would be appreciated.
Thank you

You may want to do a little more research on this subject before you make your purchase. PWM's are best used to limit current. You are not going to find that magical resonating frequency, no matter what any publication says. No one has yet to recreate these claims. If they have, then I challenge them to submit physical proof for peer review.
01-25-2009, 07:49 PM
yellowcat

Now you are confusing me ,unless frequency means to turn the voltage on and off.I bought a book from a man who makes water torches Every PWM I have seen will only go to 100 not near high enough.Everything I have read and seen requires higher then that.I want to expeirmentI have seen no one on this fourm or for that matter any other fourm I visit try this.The book I bought and other things I have read has convinced me to try this.It also states a distance of 3/8 between the plates as optimin.I am trying to produce HHO,the best,easist way.Everything I have seen and heard suggests this is the way to do it.I have found a circut that will do what I want.Question-Why does it seem like your are trying to discourage me instead of help?
01-25-2009, 08:00 PM
alpha-dog

Quote:

Originally Posted by yellowcat

Can anyone tell me how to build or were to buy a controller that will let me pluse 12 to 48 volts DC output,30 amps, from 0 to 500 times a second.Input would be 12 to 48 volts DC.The amps are not that important,they could be as low as 1.5 amps only output.I got a book on Brown's gas that says you need to pluse (on and OFF) the DC voltage at 240 or higher per second to get maxium production.If I can only input from 115Ac to get this kind of controll,that would work also.(Use a converter)Been 40 years scince I have done much in the way of electronic circuts.12 volts DC 1.5 amp output would be something to work with ,but I would like to be able to try higher voltages and amps.Any help would be appreciated.
Thank you

In theory an MX067 can be modified to do that. I'm in the process of modifying a ZFF pwm driver board to do that now.
On the MX067, if you will change the N-channel mosfets to P-channel mosfets, break the ground run near the ground spade terminal and isolate ( break the runs )the L+ terminal, remove the flyback diode and attach a wire from the ground run ( not grnd terminal ) to the L+ terminal. Then in theory it will pulse the DC ( battery ) at what ever PRF you have it set to.
+ will be ( ignition )voltage to run the driver portion, L+ becomes ground, L- is the drain and goes to the load ( electrolyser ), The grnd terminal ( Source )becomes Battery + ( high current ).
Russ
01-26-2009, 12:15 AM
Q-Hack!

Quote:

Originally Posted by yellowcat

Now you are confusing me ,unless frequency means to turn the voltage on and off.I bought a book from a man who makes water torches Every PWM I have seen will only go to 100 not near high enough.Everything I have read and seen requires higher then that.I want to expeirmentI have seen no one on this fourm or for that matter any other fourm I visit try this.The book I bought and other things I have read has convinced me to try this.It also states a distance of 3/8 between the plates as optimin.I am trying to produce HHO,the best,easist way.Everything I have seen and heard suggests this is the way to do it.I have found a circut that will do what I want.Question-Why does it seem like your are trying to discourage me instead of help?

I don't mean to discourage you from testing new things. I just think that there is a lot of bad information out there. I searched the web looking for proof of the magic frequency. There are many people who post different frequencies that they claim is the magic number. Then you see someone else trying it and can't get it to work. It's a scenario that is repeated over and over.

I personally bought a Dave Lawton PWM to play with. I even own an oscilloscope so that I can look at the wave forms created. I spent months trying different wave forms at different frequencies. The Dave Lawton PWM will even create high frequencies floating on top of low ones. In the end I gave up on the idea.

I have a theory on it, but it is just that, a theory. In order to find the frequency that easily separates H20, requires that the HHO generator act much like a capacitor. To some extent it does, however it's a moving target. As the HHO generator heats up the value of capacitance drops while the current draw increases. This means that you would have to build your PWM to fluctuate the frequency with this change. Is this possible to do? Maybe... there are EE's still trying to get it to work.

Personally, I think your better off going with the tried a true. Use the brute force method and control your current with either the electrolyte or a PWM. For this you would want either the zerofosilfuel http://www.hhoforums.com/showthread.php?t=2048 design or the one ridelong designed here on this forum. http://www.hhoforums.com/showthread.php?t=917&page=16
02-08-2009, 05:03 PM
wcorless

Hydrogen Fuel Systems PCU-2

Don't forget to add the PWM made by Hydrogen Fuel Systems to the list of PWM's to consider.
The PCU-2 has all of the features of the ZFF PWM plus it has a voltage adjustment. This is handy in that it senses the voltage of the vehicle and turns on the unit when the engine is running thereby turning on your Cell. If the cell draws too much power and the voltage drops, it will safely shut down your cell. Without this feature you could burn out your alternator.
http://water2gashawaii.com/order.php
02-08-2009, 05:25 PM
wcorless

Pulsing

We've done a lot of experiments with pulsing vs direct current aka. brute force. It is our opinion that nothing beats direct current for maximum production. This however comes with a downside. The more current you put through water the more production you get, however you also get heat. As the cell heats up the more current is allowed to produce more HHO. All brute force cells develop heat, which unchecked will cause the electrolyte to boil and the cell will go into thermal runaway mode. Eventually you will blow fuses, or melt your container. Also you will have steam, hho and some electrolyte in the output. The bubbler should remove the steam and electrolyte if it is designed properly but the real reason for using a PWM in our opinion is to prevent the cell from boiling the water. Pulsing is in fact turning on and off the DC current in such a manner as to reduce or limit the overheating of the cell. When you say you want to turn on and off at 100 times a second that is 100Hz This frequency is very low. We suggest the frequency be around 10-100 kHz or a thousand times faster. Any pulsing will produce less HHO than non pulsed. The so called magic frequency as far as we know is still just the subject of movies.
02-08-2009, 08:01 PM
Gary Diamond

Quote:

Originally Posted by Q-Hack!

I don't mean to discourage you from testing new things. I just think that there is a lot of bad information out there. I searched the web looking for proof of the magic frequency. There are many people who post different frequencies that they claim is the magic number. Then you see someone else trying it and can't get it to work. It's a scenario that is repeated over and over.

I personally bought a Dave Lawton PWM to play with. I even own an oscilloscope so that I can look at the wave forms created. I spent months trying different wave forms at different frequencies. The Dave Lawton PWM will even create high frequencies floating on top of low ones. In the end I gave up on the idea.

I have a theory on it, but it is just that, a theory. In order to find the frequency that easily separates H20, requires that the HHO generator act much like a capacitor. To some extent it does, however it's a moving target. As the HHO generator heats up the value of capacitance drops while the current draw increases. This means that you would have to build your PWM to fluctuate the frequency with this change. Is this possible to do? Maybe... there are EE's still trying to get it to work.

Personally, I think your better off going with the tried a true. Use the brute force method and control your current with either the electrolyte or a PWM. For this you would want either the zerofosilfuel http://www.hhoforums.com/showthread.php?t=2048 design or the one ridelong designed here on this forum. http://www.hhoforums.com/showthread.php?t=917&page=16

I agree with you a 100%, it a waste of money, and you may be stealing some power from your battery, but who knows.
06-02-2009, 04:22 PM
Philldpapill

Yellowcat and others,
I'm developing a PWM unit that can do a number of things - not just simple PWM to control the current. This gadget can log all sorts of data and perform many tests, defined by the user. It interfaces directly with your computer, so you can save data such as current consumption, HHO Cell temperature, Battery Voltage, and hopefully later on: Engine RPM and other engine related data.

This is meant to be an all purpose HHO controller that should be able to interface with many vehicle systems. Also, if you are doing benchtop work, it acts as a charge regulator for your batteries, and cuts the power to your HHO cell in case the battery becomes too discharged - saving your battery.

I'm looking for people to help test this out, and submit ideas to make it better. If you have anything you'd like to add, or if you'd like to help test it, let me know. If you want to help test, I'll send you a unit for a ~$50 deposit. I'd need a deposit just so I know you aren't going to run off with it and not help me out a bit. Once you've helped me with some testing, I'll refund your deposit and let you keep the unit.