I put this in another thread - then realized it should be here
Borax as a catalyst
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I put this in another thread - then realized it should be here
Borax as a catalyst
Alternatives to Baking Soda as a Catalyst
1. Sodium Citrate which is basically citric acid - a SAFE food ingredient used in ice cream, cheese and wine. Find it on eBay Store "The Chemical Connection" ($3.99) or locally - try the local winery or ice cream factory. Might be called Citrosodine, Tri-Sodium Citrate, Citric Acid (PURE citric acid, no sugar please!), or Tri-Sodium Salt.
2. Washing Soda is a laundry detergent that might be found under the names Soda Ash, Laundry Soda, Sal Soda, or Sodium Carbonate. Used as a non-toxic all-purpose cleaner - look in the laundry section of your grocery store.
3. Borax is also used for laundry and might be known as Sodium Borate, Sodium Tetraborate, or Disodium Tetraborate.
Although non-dangerous in general, Washing Soda and Borax might be toxic if swallowed. Keep away from children!
So I am reading this but I don't think the citric acid would work because I may be 100% wrong but don't we need a high alkaline solution? Citric acid would make it acidic correct? :confused:
Dancer, electrolyte can be either alkaline or acidic. I still think that you can not beat NaOH (lye). There is more to electrolyte than just its ions.
That's why I thought I would be wrong. Just trying to learn cause the main systems I have seen use alkaline electrolyte.
Also MyoldYourgold whats your name? Also thanks for chasing me around this forum to correct my misinterpreted statements. I really am trying to learn this and have been trying to do more research before typing. LOL.
I prefer to use Borax since it doesn't exhibit too much heat because of its very high resistance to electron flow between plates. There is no more need for a pwm to counter overheating in the system. It is quite slow in bubble production but it sound quite different from the bubbles produced in KOH electrolyte solution. Bubble a size of a pea explodes like a fulminate. It sounds like a .22 magnum fired and I have to stop testing because it does not only harm my ear but the tranquility of my neighbors. Sodium Borohydride has a valence of 10H2 making the compound much like a hydrocarbon. If liberated to form HHO with Oxygen it can give much better explosive power to the combustion engine than the HHO produced by KOH.
Some dude would think Borax as a catalyst. No. It is fuel in powder form with chemical formula of Na2B4O7*10H2O. It is Sodium Borohydride in natural occurring compound. If you look closely at the formula it has a valence of 10 atoms H multiplied by 2 = 20. Mixed with distilled water it displays maximum resistance of electron flow in between plates of dry or wet cells. In short it is simply of fuel of vast amount of Hydrogen atoms stored in a single compound. You cannot liberate this 20 atoms of H easily in electrolysis to produce a super Hydrogen gas. It has got to have a catalyst or an initiator in the electrolyte in order for it to be liberated into your car engine's intake. In my experience, the only chemical that can do it without altering the compound is Potassium Hydroxide. Control the amount of KOH to produce a maximum of 5 amps only and you will have a good production of HHO unlike those that you see being popped in you-tube. Oh by the way, please use an ear cover when you are about to test fire the bubbles that you produce in following this experiment. May God bless you and you can now run your car by 60%.:D
Hmm... it seems like you have done a bit of testing there Forest. Thanks for the valuable info!
Please give some more insight into the set-up required to get the most out of this.
How much Borax do you use, in proportion to the KOH?
You said that only KOH works, so that rules out my NaOH does it not -or can it still work with the Borax?
How do you feed it to your car -and with what results?
What is your best MPG reading?
Please let us know, since this can go a long way if things really are how you say they are.
Sorry man. I'm no chemist. In fact I failed all my Chemistry subjects in High School and College. I don't want you to follow me on this thread if you want to live longer. I've been through ups and downs trying to foolishly experiment my way toward discovering something that would uplift my life and take me out from the misery of living in this big cashbox planet in the universe. I would understand you if you feel pis about me joining this forum. Thank you for your blunt words of eviction. But here it is. It won't cost you your life if you try this: I used 2 table spoon of Borax in one liter of clean water. i don't give a damn how you interpret clean in your culture dude. You add 1/2 teaspoon of Ammonium Phosphate if you have some or if the CCTV camera in a chemical supply store in your area doesn't report you to your nearest EPA office for possibility of converting it to nitrate state. Shake that 1 liter of potion and add 1/2 tablespoon of KOH and shake again. You can make a small proportion of this potion if you are suspicious i am trying to kill you along with your beloved family and the rest of the members here. Cool that bottle in a fridge or bunch of ice in a bucket for a few minutes. Put it into your adorable dry or wet cell. I will have to stop here i think you already know what's next. Remember the potassium hydroxide is your ampere and speed God. He is your variable for the speed of which you want to make bubbles. If you want to make bubbles of H2 like the speed of which bullets emptied in Syria and Libya today well go ahead dude and pour everything you've got from a 1000 liter drum to a ton in that 1 liter of water if it will satisfy you. If you're in for a result start with the amount I just tell you and improve a little bit as soon as you get the right ampere (not exceeding 5 amps) and the right temperature per liter in a minute of production. You can subtract that ammonium phosphate if you do not have a friend who happens to have a left over of fertilizer in his farm if you like. This chemical can be substituted by 2-3 drops of phosphoric acid. This one is hazardous in nature you can put it in your skin if you like to find out if i am telling you the truth.
You want to test if I am telling you will be producing super Hydrogen gas in bubbles that you make? Here's what you need to have:
1. get yourself a deep plastic ( 8 inches deep ) bucket or pitcher
2. Mix a little of washing soap in it to make sure your test bubbles will hug each other like they were soulmates from the other life
3. Make sure your hose has a flashback arrestor.
4. The tip of your hose should touch the bottom of the bucket.
5. AN EAR MUFF OR EAR PROTECTOR specially the ones used in firing ranges.
With the things i mentioned above you can start puffing bubbles and report in this thread so I can start cutting the bull' and continue my life with my mad chemistry and just put a blind eye to every bull' that all of you will say after.
HHOFOX
I have not tested mixing Sodium Hydroxide or ordinary salt with Borax but i think the two will go for as long as the salt you use is not common salt that is subverted by WHO and doesn't have any Iodine on it. Iodine is bad. I'm sure you're HHO cell does not suffer from Iodine deficiency like the nomads of Sahara. So take it out from NaOH and maybe the two can work. Some R&D and big Hydrogen crocodile frms today are making a big leap from Sodium Borohydride and you can check it on the internet and maybe ask the U.S. Air Force Department if i am lying or not. It has just been recently announced as a definitive food for all PEM fuel cells that usually need stored Hydrogen in tanks for operation. Hell, it took them more a decade to realize that. Where are all the modern Faradays gone? Much of them has been killed on several decades of useless war of domination, security, and profit around the world. We could have had a leap into a definitive Hydrogen several decades ago. What comes out in the mainstream media today is the use of Borax as food for Hydrogen fuel cells and the use of it as food for our miserable HHO project is not even mentioned. Only private and individual reports, briefs, and summaries in PDF comes out in google. They want us not to be able to come out from our shell because it is dangerous for any nation to allow its citizens to make their own fuel from their kitchen and run their cars. This is the secret potion that you see in Mighty Mite HHO. I have not send it yet in laboratory test but I'm sure there is Sodium Borohydride in it.
Another source of super Hydrogen potion is the ordinary photographic fixer solution. You can buy from a supplier a pound of this white powdered compound that is mixed with 1 gallon of water for darkroom use. It has Ammonium Thiosulfate, Sodium Thiosulfate, and Boric Acid in it. Mix 2 table spoon of this potion in a liter of distilled water and you just imprisoned a vast number of Hydrogen atoms ready to be popped out. The smell is not nice it will jerk off your girlfriend and leave forever. The color is a complete copy of your **** early morning. In fact it will even continue to become stronger in color as it stays in your cell. But don't worry. Above all this Merlin formula I am giving you is a PH Meter that you need to have in order to limit the acidity of your electrolyte. I am dumb about PH level but it is not bad to consult someone good at this. It is even badder if you don't and you have an acidic potion that ready to be electrolyzed at 5 amps with its acidic fumes and vapors all active 24 hours to eat the aluminum alloy parts beginning from your carb mouth down to your engine's piston. Control the PH and you control the destiny of your HHO career.
Just like any HHO electrolyte there is nothing special about Sodium Borohydride potion. Your wirings and hose set ups remain the same. A new guest from hell called Super Hydrogen Camp just came in. Give me some readings on volts, amperes, cell temperatures, mileage, and your body health as soon as you get down working on this mad potion.
Ordinary Borax sold in the market used in welding shops contains Ammonium chloride.
The cell temperature produced a low temperature because of this element that
is contained in this type of Borax used as flux in the welding machine shops.
HIghly soluble in water...oh by the way, molecular value is
NH4Cl
Test it again Forest...
You can say anything you want. The burden of proof is still on you. I know you are full of lies because you miss apply chemistry so badly there can be no discussion. And yet you admit you are a flunky chemist as a preamble to your post to dismiss the criticism you will get.Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest
Basically, your post is you saying: "I am stupid - here's the proof. And, all of you are going to hate me for it, but I don't care".
Because I am traveling between projects that have kept me very busy, and I have not been able to follow a lot of what is going on. I have one comment here though and that is electrolyte doping is of no real advantage. It does not change the amount of energy needed to make a usable, safe and economical gas. Play all you want but in the end you will come back to the hard facts of already proven science. There is no pot of gold at the end of this rainbow!! I will be one happy camper if some one will prove me wrong!!