Aluminum!!!!!

Just for all of those that were interested about the question, not too long ago about ALUMINUM!? I said I had something in the works for a model and would get back to you. As most people know, it has a "very" good conductive value, low corrosive properties, high availabillity (any hardware store), and easy to work with. I now have a 12 plate generator that is working on a 5 watt solar panel (that I test "any" design on, not to waste battery power). However, it has been producing gas for the last hour and and half at a rate at least double of ANY other material I have used in the pst. The best part is, it has NO CORROSION, NO POND SCUM, AND HAS NOW FROTHED OVER THE BRIM ONCE I ADDED ONE TABLE SPOON OF BAKING SODA!!! SOMEONE TELL ME QUICK WHY I DO NOT NEED TO CONNECT THE BUBBLER AND TRY THIS ON MY SVT???????

Anyone????

I am definetley going to try that now. Oh yea where would you get some plates of aluminum?

What's up RANGER? Just so you know, the sun is now going down and I do not have the amp's I had when I first hooked this up. However, there is NO DOUBT that "IT WORKS", thus far much better than "ANYTHING" I have tried yet. LOT'S OF BUBBLES, NO CORROTION, LOT'S OF GAS, INEXPENSIVE, NOT SO SURE ABOUT THE FUMES THOUGH!? Unless someone has a "GOOD" explanation as to why I "should not" use this, IT WILL BE FUNCTIONAL, and a working design, on my favorite riding mower TOMORROW!

No one said aluminum wouldnt produce HHO, they said aluminum will not last long and it cant be used with the good electrolytes like NaOH.

THANK YOU, FINALLY A RESPONSE! Why will this not last as long? It certainly works "MUCH" better initially!

Oh, and just for the sake of all us "newbies", please explaine exactly wht is NaOH!

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Originally Posted by wingnut

Oh, and just for the sake of all us "newbies", please explaine exactly wht is NaOH!

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Soduim Hydroxide. It is used as a catalist to raise the conductivity of water.

Also known as sodium hydroxide, it is a key ingredient in Draino,and can melt through your skin in a matter of seconds.

K, well, seeing how the sun is going down here in the mid west, and I am obviously loosing amps to it. WHY IS IT that you are not suppose to use ALUMINUM again? Precisely?

I Am Not Using Drano!only H2o! And Then One Table Spoon Of Baking Soda! It Works Better Than Anything Else I Have Tried!!! What Is The Problem????

NaOH is Sodium hydroxide but I don't know if it is table salt or anything like that

I just read that soduim hydroxide is Lye

You are quite right there Ranger! It is SALT! Also the most common element on the planet, ( happens to take up around 2/3 of it ) I HAVE HEARD OF DANGERS OF USING "SALT"! DOES ANYONE HAVE A CONFLICT IN USING BAKING SODA AND ALUMINUM WITH A SENSIBLE ARGUMENT AS TO WHY NOT?

My Bad, I Am Thinking Of Sodium Chloride!?

Any one? ANYONE? ANYONE, ANYONE, ANYONE????????????????

I don't think baking soda/sodium bicarbonate should be harmful because I use it along with toothpaste to brush my teeth and toothpaste is made up of alot of chemicals!

Thank's man! I just do not understand how all of these people that have done this can not just give me a straight answer as to "why" they will not use aluminum!? It just makes sense to me! Most mass produced combustion engines now have at least an aluminum head along with "many" other parts. So far as I know it is the least expensive, least corrosive, less carbon, most pliable, most conductive (for the price), and most commonly used flat metal in the free world. I just do not "GET IT"? TELL ME THIS IS NOT A NEW IDEA?! Signing out for now, fed up, tired, talk more later. Oh, it's "still cooking" just fine with a head on an open mason jar that Bud would be proud of.

I guess that everyone is waiting to see how your experiment progresses. Aluminum would be a lot easier to cut and drill than stainless steel. I've thought about it, but corrosion is my main concern.

I have seen boat hulls made out of aluminum that are used in salt water. I went to a boat website that says their boats are just fine in salt water; they use 5052-H36 aluminum alloy. Sounds exotic and is probably expensive.

Keep us updated, ok?

Sodium hydroxide and aluminum will chemically react with each other pretty violently. Aluminum is a soft metal and yes it is semi resisant corrosion, but the corrosion inside an electolosis unit is much stronger. The chemicals and electricity will eat away at the aluminum much faster than it would stainless steel. Stainless is overall more resistant to corrosion vs aluminum. If you really want to understand aluminum and stainless read this page. http://www.answers.com/topic/stainle...cat=technology

No one is saying not to use aluminum, we are saying dont use it with Sodium Hydroxide, Salt or Potassium hydroxide. Salt will cause pitting on aluminum, NaOH and KOH will chemically react with aluminum in which the aluminum will be rapidly destroyed.

Under room temperature sodium bicarbonate will cause negligble damage to aluminum, but when you add heat it becomes more destructive. No idea how long the plates will last though. It could be a year could be a month.

Well Wingnut, I think you need to experiment with aluminum and report back because I am interested in it as well. I am in a similiar situation as you because I can't find any SS anywhere, but Tractor supply (which is where I work so I get a 15% discount) offers a couple of sizes of sheets of aluminum at a pretty good price.

I also would like to know if copper has been tried before.

If you insist on using aluminium for some reason then why dont you put it together and run with it for a while then come back and shout your results to everyone? I only have one small tip. Remember to sand it before use because a lot of it is anodised to improve the oxide layer or coated for protection in some way or other. It has a lower density than other metals and is fairly porous, expect quick wear! Dont you want a cell which you can install and forget? I will be eagerly waiting for your results, as I am sure we all will... Best of luck wingnut....stay cool! :confused::D

There are several advantages that alumunium has over SS

1. Cheaper
2. Higher availability
3. Eaiser to work with, cut, shape, etc..

Pleeeeez Dean...the disadvantages far outweigh the advantages not least the wear factor and maintenance needed.......how hard is it to order some cut SS plates and sleep better! :):confused:

How fast do they wear actually?

I am thinking of experimenting at first with aluminum because I plan to build and rebuild quite a few cells to try to figure out works best for me and I don't have the money for SS, and if the aluminum will last a few weeks then it will last long enought for me.

What kind ofSS are ya'll using, cuz my Dad brought me some 1/8'' SS scrap from his plant and it is so hard that I can't drill through it without heating it to almost white hot.

Slow down your drill speed and use a cutting fluid/lubricant to help save your drill bits.

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Originally Posted by spob

Slow down your drill speed and use a cutting fluid/lubricant to help save your drill bits.

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I am using a drill press and I have the belts routed to its slowest speed of 360 rpms and it has an automatic oiler so the bit always stays lubed. This is just some wierd SS. Luckily it is still weak to a plasma cutter.

Aluminum only produces hydrogen gas, not hydrogen and oxygen.

The aluminum actually becomes part of the chemical reaction, forming Aluminum oxide and degrading in the process.

The plus side, pure hydrogen output. The minus, the plates will be eaten up and leave behind a gunky residue.

If you would like to perform an experiment without the use of electricity, then get some liquid metal (containing gallium) and wet a stip of aluminum with it. Just place the aluminum into a jar of water and watch as the reaction takes place. The galluim keeps the aluminum from forming the protective oxide layer and allows the aluminum to react with the water until all the aluminum is gone.

http://hydrogen.ecn.purdue.edu/2007.05.01-Woodall.pdf

The only down side that I can see with it is

1. You have to be careful choosing the electrolite(mix),
2. It does not have the tinsile strength of SS, its softer.

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Originally Posted by wingnut

Just for all of those that were interested about the question, not too long ago about ALUMINUM!? I said I had something in the works for a model and would get back to you. As most people know, it has a "very" good conductive value, low corrosive properties, high availabillity (any hardware store), and easy to work with. I now have a 12 plate generator that is working on a 5 watt solar panel (that I test "any" design on, not to waste battery power). However, it has been producing gas for the last hour and and half at a rate at least double of ANY other material I have used in the pst. The best part is, it has NO CORROSION, NO POND SCUM, AND HAS NOW FROTHED OVER THE BRIM ONCE I ADDED ONE TABLE SPOON OF BAKING SODA!!! SOMEONE TELL ME QUICK WHY I DO NOT NEED TO CONNECT THE BUBBLER AND TRY THIS ON MY SVT???????

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I am very interested in your results. They sound great. I would like to know four(4) things about your system. 1) What temperature does it settle to? 2) The change(decline) in flow rate over time? 3) the inital thickness of the Aluminum plates? 4) How long the Aluminum plates last?

Hi guys, my name is Martin and I am reading all over the place to build a dry cell. My apologies to stir up this post again, but I find very little (to none) tests with Aluminum plates. Did one ever test this?

I also read it only produces hydrogen gas and not HHO. Does this has different effect on your enginer then HHO? Does the Volo can handle this as well?

We have several cars and I like to try a dry cell for on our carboratored car to see what the results are, before buying the needed stuff for electronic fuel injection.

Anyway... I was curious if one tried this set up with aluminum already. My main reason is that I would not like to have the side product Chromium and do not mind to have once in 6 or 12 months maintenance on my dry cell. (No offence, but one could also not drive forever without changing oil :) )

Hope to get a reply

Rg
Martin

I guess you have not been searching in the right places. NaOH and KOH dissolve aluminium quickly. Hence, they do not use them for long-term production.
There is a carbon catalyst product which is being introduced to industries which uses aluminium and water to hake copious amounts of Hydrogen though.
I believe it's called CC HOD. Check that out and see.

Try different methods of producing with AL instead of the usual. There has to be a different way to do so wo\ithout wearing your plates.

There is a method to use AL as the plates without damaging the plates. To the best of my knowledge it has no advantage economically or in fuel savings. The only advantage is it removes any chance of the known cancer producing hexavalent chromium (Cr6) which is not an issue when a stainless steel reactor is built and used properly. So why waste your time.

well you can get cancer from just about anything these days lolz.

MONSANTOOOOOO

Anyways good luck with your cell

Lye will eat aluminium, create heat, and produce hydrogen. Lye and aluminium are the main ingredients of Draino, and the reason Draino does so well at removing grease clogs in drains. But, if you want plain hydrogen, chopped up aluminium cans will do great. I'd start with a weak solution of lye so the mixture doesn't get so hot it starts boiling. From what I have read, lye causes aluminium to oxidize rapidly, and the oxygen for oxidizing aluminium comes from H20, leaving just the H. Putting strips of aluminium foil in an old glass coke bottle with some water and lye is a quick way make a balloon that floats better than helium, although the hydrogen creeps through the wall of the balloon faster than helium. They likely won't last overnight, but they're great while they do last.