Flame Arrestors vs. Bubblers

While operating a vehicle with an HHO system on it, I would rather use a Flame Arrestor instead of a Bubbler.

Here is why.

1. Without special mods being done to a larger electrolyzer, bubbler water tends to be sucked into the electrolyzer as the electrolyzer cools off.
2. Flame arrestors/flashback arrestors do not require water or the storage of it.
3. Flame arrestors/flashback arrestors are usually smaller than bubblers.

On the bench is a different story. I can understand using bubblers while bench testing the electrolyzer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dennis13030

While operating a vehicle with an HHO system on it, I would rather use a Flame Arrestor instead of a Bubbler.

Here is why.

1. Without special mods being done to a larger electrolyzer, bubbler water tends to be sucked into the electrolyzer as the electrolyzer cools off.
2. Flame arrestors/flashback arrestors do not require water or the storage of it.
3. Flame arrestors/flashback arrestors are usually smaller than bubblers.

On the bench is a different story. I can understand using bubblers while bench testing the electrolyzer.

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I like bubblers in addition to flame arrestors.
1. A bubbler gives you visual confirmation that the unit is working. It also "cleans" the gas of any of the electrolyte.
2. A bubbler adds water vapor to the gas mix.
3. I can build a bubbler for very few dollars.
4. You can add a check valve from your electrolyzer to your bubbler to prevent backwash.
Just my thoughts.

I was using a check valve after my bubbler and all my bubbler liquid was being pulled back into my electrolyzer every time. As the temperature drops inside an electrolyzer, the air pressure decreases. It has to equalize from somewhere. Either the walls of the case will begin to deform from the low air pressure or water will get sucked backwards from the bubbler. One way of getting around this would be to put a checkvalve between the electrolyzer and the bubbler and another (Reversed) checkvalve between the ambient air and the electrolyzer. As the electrolyzer pressure decreases, the ambient air would be sucked into the electrolyzer instead of the bubbler.

That's the best way to do it if you want to keep a bubbler on a car. Period.

I have a couple photos attached that show how the walls will deform if the pressure decreases on the inside of the container while the PVC is still malleable because of the heat...

This container warp was caused partially because of a strap I had around the container but you can see that a pressure difference between the inside of the warm container and the cooler ambient air outside will cause a slow implosion of the container.

Also, in a crash a bubbler will break easily.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Smith03Jetta

I was using a check valve after my bubbler and all my bubbler liquid was being pulled back into my electrolyzer every time. As the temperature drops inside an electrolyzer, the air pressure decreases. It has to equalize from somewhere. Either the walls of the case will begin to deform from the low air pressure or water will get sucked backwards from the bubbler. One way of getting around this would be to put a checkvalve between the electrolyzer and the bubbler and another (Reversed) checkvalve between the ambient air and the electrolyzer. As the electrolyzer pressure decreases, the ambient air would be sucked into the electrolyzer instead of the bubbler.

That's the best way to do it if you want to keep a bubbler on a car. Period.

I have a couple photos attached that show how the walls will deform if the pressure decreases on the inside of the container while the PVC is still malleable because of the heat...

This container warp was caused partially because of a strap I had around the container but you can see that a pressure difference between the inside of the warm container and the cooler ambient air outside will cause a slow implosion of the container.

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This is correct actually, my previous post was wrong, sorry.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Smith03Jetta

I was using a check valve after my bubbler and all my bubbler liquid was being pulled back into my electrolyzer every time. As the temperature drops inside an electrolyzer, the air pressure decreases. It has to equalize from somewhere. Either the walls of the case will begin to deform from the low air pressure or water will get sucked backwards from the bubbler. One way of getting around this would be to put a checkvalve between the electrolyzer and the bubbler and another (Reversed) checkvalve between the ambient air and the electrolyzer. As the electrolyzer pressure decreases, the ambient air would be sucked into the electrolyzer instead of the bubbler.

That's the best way to do it if you want to keep a bubbler on a car. Period.

I have a couple photos attached that show how the walls will deform if the pressure decreases on the inside of the container while the PVC is still malleable because of the heat...

This container warp was caused partially because of a strap I had around the container but you can see that a pressure difference between the inside of the warm container and the cooler ambient air outside will cause a slow implosion of the container.

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I don't think that the reversed check valve will work that way; if it would prevent a vacuum from developing due to air contraction when the generator cools off, it would be a full time leak to the vacuum present when the car is running and HHO going to the engine.

I've noticed this phenomenon and don't quite know what to do about it. The only thing I can come up with is an electrically operated valve that opens a port to the generator when the motor is off and closed when the car is on. That would eliminate the whole cool down vacuum problem.

In general, I think that the bubbler is the only sure way to eliminate the electrolyte from being gradually consumed by the engine. Sodium or potassium hydroxide in a motor is kinda scary.

Comments?

The whole flame arrestor and bubbler issue is one that scares the bejeesus out of me.
You can't afford to screw up on these items it seems.

In New Zealand, it's damn nigh impossible to get the bronze wool to make a flame arrestor. Any Ideas on alternatives?

I'm thinking that a whole bunch of very tightly packed very fine copper wire would work quite well, being a good thermal conductor like bronze. But would it be as good, or last as long, bearing in mind, there may be a little tiny bit of KOH going through it.

Then there's really effective bubblers... Any GOOD ideas here?
I'm picking a few air stones (plastic ones) and a soft plastic exterior, like some large bore pvc tubing, would work pretty good. I'd like to make this "bombproof" so it will last "forever" - or untill I can think of a better idea at least.

Cheers,
Drafty-01.

Okay, it's early so let me try to express my 2 cents on this topics. the bubbler, sigle or dual is to scrub the gas clean before it enters the intake. Using it as a flash arrestor you are asking for trouble, unless you are running a dual tube set up.

The flash arrestor itsellf will not scrub the gas clean before it enters the intake, having both on your system installed will prevent the gas from having a solid flow. I've had the system on my F150 with dual bubbler and no flash arrestor for several years now without any problem.

The only application a bubbler and flash arrestor are used is for a torch, mainly the flash arrestor. In fact I don't use a bubbler for my torch just the flash arrestor. I'v going to say it again. Bruce energetics flash arrestor is top notch and cheap. It cost more to get the material than get his flash arrestors.

One things to note here, if you have any backfire from your engine after you installed a HOD I recommend you investigate the sources first. any good running ICE will not back fire that help iginiting the HHO. One of the discovery on my 72 vette was backfiring after I increase the producing to 2.5lpm. The car will back fire until it warm up, come find out the valve lash was adjusted to narrow when the iginition takes plalces it was happening fast before the valve even close to it's schedule time. Re-adjusted the valves, the backfire went away. The timing is another issue I found out, but that's another subject.