Printable View
I have thought of something that I am wondering why I have not heard of anyone using this?
Why not use a sepperate battery to mount in your vehicle to power your hho cell? Then you would not be using your engine to power your hho cell and therefore you can use more hho without using more fuel to produce it. Then you just charge the battery up when you get home.
This has already been done but I cannot remember the details. If the drain on the battery is not too much this maybe worth a try.Quote:
Originally Posted by HydroJ
You can get 100AH marine battery for like $100 or somewhere around that. That would run a 20A hho cell for 5 hours!
That sounds good. Few questions here:Quote:
Originally Posted by HydroJ
-How much does such a battery weigh?
-How long does it take to charge a fully depleted battery?
Here is a pretty darn good reference table:
http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/marinedeepcycle.php
For 20A@12V => 5 hours you would need the GPL-30HT which weighs a whopping 96 lbs!
http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/marineflyer.php?id=4
If you don't mind recharging every night, a less expensive alternative could be the GP-24T
http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/marineflyer.php?id=1
Granted you are using your car only for traveling to work and back (where a round trip is 2 hrs max) and max draw is 20A X 12V = 240 W
It would be smarter to go with ~15A max draw using a very efficient reactor.
Excellent info you got there Stevo. Thanks!:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevo
Good info Stevo thank you. If you want to spend more money you could build a lithium Ion battery bank to power your cell which would only weigh a fraction of a lead acid, but would cost much more. or you can buy a 100ah lithium car battery that has a life of 10 years, unfortunately it costs $1700.
IF you subscribe to the 'less is more' HHO club, then some of your worries will be alleviated. Just start at 250mLPM per 1000cc (1/4LPM of HHO to 1L) of engine displacement to see the benefits of HHO. Your battery problems would then be solved, right?
Btw.. I subscribe to this club because I have seen where the more is less theory works -I used it on my car.
I also prescribe to less is more but I love when someone tries something different. More knowledge to add to my internal database. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by hhofox
but the more hho you add to your engine the less gasoline you need to inject in the cylinders, right? Maybe I am wrong here but I thought the reason you only used 1/4lpm per liter of engine displacement was because of the strain on the alternator above this limit and the extra engine hp used to create the power to run your hho cell would not be replenished from the hho produced.
What is the less is more, is that a website?
Everyone must remember it is a ratio of fuel/air/HHO to demand of the engine that gives the good results. This ratio must stay the same as the demand of the engine changes. With just a constant flow of HHO you only get gains in one small range of demand. If this is not where you drive the most your results will be poor.
right, so you need to have a pwm or something of that sort linked with your throttle. I have been thinking though, is there a delay in gas production, like say I am driving along at 20mph then I punch the gas to accelerate quickly, would the hho be able to produce the quick burst fast enough to benefit my accellerating?
Not in any of the systems that are available in the market today to my knowledge. There is only a small amount of HHO in the reservoir, bubbler/filters and lines so it takes a little bit of time to do the job perfectly under quick accleration. The lag time is not as big a problem as you think, and many are working on making it better. When done right it is not noticeable. The vehicle still accelerates as good as it ever did and in most cases a little better.Quote:
would the hho be able to produce the quick burst fast enough to benefit my accellerating?
I was thinking of using an empty container of some kind so that you would have a reserve of hho gas for such situations. but first of all it would take up a lot of space and 2. Its like a bomb if it explodes!
i keep wondering how to store a small amount of hho safely for quick acceleration boosts. i know acetylene is pretty unstable at high pressure so they use a special foam filled tank with acetone to stabilize it. i wonder if hho would also be stable at higher psi with a small acetylene tank? some people claim hho can be pressurised alot http://forum.beawindhog.com/cgi-bin/...?m-1218081580/
You do not need a reservoir of HHO. Just forget trying that. You all know why!! You are making something out of something you have not tried. Try it and you will find the lag is in most cases not noticeable. When done right with no reservoir of HHO there is no lag that anyone can feel. Please do not do something stupid and possibly hurt yourself or someone else. Use all the safety equipment that has been discussed on this and other HHO forums.
Thank you myoldyourgold, you are right. First of all I have not even tried an hho setup in a vehicle and so I don't know if there is any lag, it just seems like there would be. And yes I know why I should not attempt a reservoir of hho.Quote:
Originally Posted by myoldyourgold
You are welcome HydroJ, you are also right in thinking there is a lag but the lag does not affect the vehicles performance enough that one can feel it when done right. Nothing like a hesitation due to some other problem. The very short lag results in a very small loss of fuel economy that you could have had with out any lag. It is so small that it would be hard to even measure but still there.Quote:
Thank you myoldyourgold, you are right. First of all I have not even tried an hho setup in a vehicle and so I don't know if there is any lag, it just seems like there would be. And yes I know why I should not attempt a reservoir of hho.
I was thinking about this too, and then using a solar panel to recharge the second battery.
FYI - You can control just about any PWM motor speed controller safely using Arduino with optoisolated safety - I have achieved this. The Arduino can read from an auxiliary 1 bar MAP sensor and respond accordingly with its own PWM signal to the mosfet on the motor speed controller using a pretty simple algorithm. This way it is easy to turn the system off at idle and the ramp up on acceleration to some pre-defined ceiling.
Doubtful you will ever be able to efficiently make enough HHO to keep up at full throttle even with batteries filling the trunk. At a certain point, weight will become a huge issue. There is a cutoff point in the load range of every automotive ICE where energy demand is far to high to be feasible which is why many people believe they have been cheated and the whole thing is a scam and everyone associated with this tech is a liar. You simply cannot floor it all day and expect a system like we build (which requires more energy in than you get out) to ever do more than waste gas.
Driving style affects the amount of air and fuel necessary to get from A to B. Drive conservatively and get good MPG. Drive conservatively with an efficient, properly conditioned and installed system that has been debugged for your specific vehicle and potentially get better MPG. Drive like racecar driver and get worse MPG. This isn't NO2!
Stevo, you are right about full throttle. Fortunately most of us do not drive at full throttle for very long. Most people have been cheated because of a number of reasons. This is much more complicated than most think. The fact is still you need to keep the ratio of HHO to fuel/air at the optimum through all demand for your driving. If you are a racier you are not looking to get good mileage. LOL With the right quality of HHO the volume is lower than one thinks. I have found for the heavy footed drivers water injection is mandatory and advancing the timing instead of retarding it is possible with the water injection. Still the right amount of HHO at the right time is necessary. There are many methods to achieve this balance. I have found using the MAP of MAF signal can be a problem on some vehicles because either the driver or the signal is bouncing all over the place. This is only in some cases. This upsets the ratio/volume of HHO, resulting in poor results.Quote:
FYI - You can control just about any PWM motor speed controller safely using Arduino with optoisolated safety - I have achieved this. The Arduino can read from an auxiliary 1 bar MAP sensor and respond accordingly with its own PWM signal to the mosfet on the motor speed controller using a pretty simple algorithm. This way it is easy to turn the system off at idle and the ramp up on acceleration to some pre-defined ceiling.
Doubtful you will ever be able to efficiently make enough HHO to keep up at full throttle even with batteries filling the trunk. At a certain point, weight will become a huge issue. There is a cutoff point in the load range of every automotive ICE where energy demand is far to high to be feasible which is why many people believe they have been cheated and the whole thing is a scam and everyone associated with this tech is a liar. You simply cannot floor it all day and expect a system like we build (which requires more energy in than you get out) to ever do more than waste gas.
Driving style affects the amount of air and fuel necessary to get from A to B. Drive conservatively and get good MPG. Drive conservatively with an efficient, properly conditioned and installed system that has been debugged for your specific vehicle and potentially get better MPG. Drive like racecar driver and get worse MPG. This isn't NO2!
I think I am understanding this now. I was trying to use hho as a fuel saver and hp booster, which is not really the purpose of hho. So you use the hho to supplement the gasoline and get better fuel economy, which does boost hp a little bit, but I was trying to give more hho to the engine to get more hp.
Just remember it takes HP to make HHO. IT is a fine line that makes this all work.
Right, but if you take hp out of the equation for making hho, and you use a sepperate battery to make the hho, is there still a limit of how much hho you put in your engine? I guess if you puenough then you will have to mess with the ignition timing.Quote:
Originally Posted by myoldyourgold
it will be better producing the gas in home. store the gas in tank, use it in car. Note : do not store HHO mixed gas, store hydrogen & oxygen separatelyQuote:
Originally Posted by HydroJ