A new approach ?

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10-11-2011, 01:48 PM
Quebecker

A new approach ?

Hi mentors,

Frequently, you hear people say that it is much easier to adapt HHO to a car without gas oxygen sensor (O2 / AF) that modern cars are equipped with the types of sensors.

And if the oxygens sensors were eliminated from the equation in modern cars?

A bit of theory ...

When in open loop, the ECM Does not use the oxygen sensor A / F sensor adjusted to the injection duration.

The ECM Will Be in open loop mode when:
- Starting the engine
- The engine is cold
- Hard acceleration
- DURING fuel cut-off
- Wide open throttle
- No response from O2 sensor or A/F sensor (CEL)

Short Fuel Trim si not Used When The ECM Is in OPEN LOOP mode. However, since Long Fuel Trim IS Stored in the ECM's memory and it's not erased. The Long Fuel Trim affect injection duration in closed and open loop mode.

In your opinion, would it be possible to disconnect (or failed to) one of the oxygen sensor to force the ECM to switch to OPEN LOOP MODE. It would be important to ensure that the Long Fuel Trim has a negative value at the time to force OPEN LOOP (CEL). In this way, the ECM no longer be using the information from oxygen sensors to adjust the injection time. To compensate for the fact that most would use the Short Fuel Trim, we could decrease the value of the MAP sensor (less load = less fuel consumption) and increase the values of IAT and ECT sensors (higher = less temperature 'fuel injection timing and late)

Have you ever tried it, what do you think about that ?

Regards
Remi
10-13-2011, 01:39 PM
myoldyourgold

Quote:

Hi mentors,

Frequently, you hear people say that it is much easier to adapt HHO to a car without gas oxygen sensor (O2 / AF) that modern cars are equipped with the types of sensors.

And if the oxygens sensors were eliminated from the equation in modern cars?

A bit of theory ...

When in open loop, the ECM Does not use the oxygen sensor A / F sensor adjusted to the injection duration.

The ECM Will Be in open loop mode when:
- Starting the engine
- The engine is cold
- Hard acceleration
- DURING fuel cut-off
- Wide open throttle
- No response from O2 sensor or A/F sensor (CEL)

Short Fuel Trim si not Used When The ECM Is in OPEN LOOP mode. However, since Long Fuel Trim IS Stored in the ECM's memory and it's not erased. The Long Fuel Trim affect injection duration in closed and open loop mode.

In your opinion, would it be possible to disconnect (or failed to) one of the oxygen sensor to force the ECM to switch to OPEN LOOP MODE. It would be important to ensure that the Long Fuel Trim has a negative value at the time to force OPEN LOOP (CEL). In this way, the ECM no longer be using the information from oxygen sensors to adjust the injection time. To compensate for the fact that most would use the Short Fuel Trim, we could decrease the value of the MAP sensor (less load = less fuel consumption) and increase the values of IAT and ECT sensors (higher = less temperature 'fuel injection timing and late)

Have you ever tried it, what do you think about that ?

Remi, I have not tried it and am not sure that it would work the same with all ECM's. By keeping one 02 sensor connected you could monitor A/F ratio to make sure it was not to lean. It might be possible. I am not that familiar with how open loop operation is controlled in all ECM's and or if they are the same. It will require some research but time is short at the moment. I was not aware that the ECM used any of the sensors in open loop. I always thought it went to some safe rich setting map and ignored all sensors. I will do some research and see if I can help out here. Interesting concept though.

I suggest you give it a try and get back to us but be careful.
10-13-2011, 02:17 PM
Quebecker

From Toyota Motors USA

http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/8...enloopmode.jpg

http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/9...seloopmode.jpg
10-29-2011, 12:30 AM
Stevo

This could either work out fine or be very dangerous for the engine in terms of lack of cooling so the ECU will respond by retarding ignition timing and adding MORE fuel in open loop on the low end. You will lose MPG and power. You could try tuning the ECU, but even if you could you put the engine in jeopardy of detonation at moderate to high loads if the tune is off.
10-29-2011, 12:53 AM
myoldyourgold

Quote:

This could either work out fine or be very dangerous for the engine in terms of lack of cooling so the ECU will respond by retarding ignition timing and adding MORE fuel in open loop on the low end. You will lose MPG and power. You could try tuning the ECU, but even if you could you put the engine in
jeopardy of detonation at moderate to high loads if the tune is off.

Steve, with the addition of the right amount of HHO to counter both loss of power and gain in heat would that give you a wider range to play with before it becomes critical?