I'll compile a list of which electrolytes NOT to try, because they are harmful to yourself and other people.
1. SALT (Sodium Chloride) <creates small amounts of chlorine gas>
(msg me if you have a solution to add to this list)
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I'll compile a list of which electrolytes NOT to try, because they are harmful to yourself and other people.
1. SALT (Sodium Chloride) <creates small amounts of chlorine gas>
(msg me if you have a solution to add to this list)
I would like to know what is the consequences using salt..
one is that it will make up Chlorine gas,
2 you are putting salt residue into your motor to burn? Don't know the long term effects that would have.
Using Salt as an electrolye is not only bad, but also ineffective.
So far the best "safe" mix I have found is 8 parts epsom salts, to 3 parts baking soda, per 2-2.5L of water.
it is the most conductive, thus draws the most amperes, thus works the best.
Every spoon added increased the amps drawn on the plates. Up until reached the max.
Thanks for the tip Mike.how are you measuring the parts?
I'll have to pick up on my chemistry skills, it's been a while since I studied it, but wouldn't using baking soda produce CO2?
Again, I'm not sure at this at all, I will really have to look it up but I'm gonna guess it goes something like this:
2NaHCO3 + H2O + Energy(electricity?) = 2H2 + O2 + 2CO2 + 2NaH
(or maybe = 2H2 + 2CO2 + 2NaOH?)
..and then in a second step the Sodium hydride (or like Na and H ions i guess) would produce some more H2, but I'm not sure what would happen to the Na in there :)
If no one beats me in explaining this I think I'll find the old books and try to figure it out.
Oh right, my point being, is it wise using an electrolyte that will make your car produce CO2 and if so, it's probably a good idea separating the H2 and O2 from the CO2 before it's combusted.
Caustic Soda is perhaps the most commonly available and most effective. Their is another xxx E500 i'll find the full chem name.
Their are lots of side effects of Caustic Soda so follow the warning labels!
Im using Ocean Water, it works very well, but I get hot after about 20 miles.
I have 12 SS outlet covers 6+ / 6- about 3/8 inch apart. Im using threaded rod as connectors and am experiencing excessive corrosion. the HHO production is rapid though. I went from 28 hwy to better than 30mph around town. I havent pinpointed the hwy mileage, but will post that later.
Im considering mounting the unit on the front of the car for air cooling.
when using baking soda you are only making about 66% hydrogen and almost 30% carbon dioxide and even a littel carbon monoxide...not sure the exact figures anymore.
my tests have shown potassium hydroxide is by far the best and other than it stains clothes it does not really have an effect ...it does tingle a little if you touch it but thats a given with anything caustic
Sodium Chloride (salt) releases Chlorine gas when used in an electrolyzer. Clorine gas is poinsonous, and is corrosive. Not that it would hurt you, but its not going to help either.
potassium hydroxide, isnt that potash?
Where do I buy it, and what do I ask for when calling around for prices?
I think i will just stay with baking soda, or maybe try this "Lye" thing everyone is screaming about.
I figure that introducing the water into the engine and exaust will have enough of a long term impact to deal with, let alon having to replace gaskets and other seals along the way...Salt is good for the bench, but I would like to know about something that is going to be much more stable and safe for the engine as well as the generator.
Lye is getting alot of talk around the boards, but it is really harsh stuff....I guess it is all about compromises and good chemistry....
Can anyone tell me where to find Potash, and any potential hazards?
what about the effects on an aluminium engine of some of the more popular electrolytes? this stuf lye wouldnt the gas produced have a nasty effect on the engine over a long term?
ok just had caustic soda in the mind and seeing as though its so aggressive a chemical i was worried that pumping the gas created by it may have a corrosive effect on the internals of an engine.
so am i to assume that the properties of the gas produced is the same for any electrolyte used?
No, some electrolytes release carbon monoxide, other release clorine. The point of the bubbler is to filter the gas as it flows through the water. From everything I can find, there are no negative releases formed from the use of NaOH in electrolysis. I may be wrong, but I cant find anything that says otherwise. So from that aspect, the only thing you have to worry about is getting the electolyte into your engine.
This is about the cheapest place I've seen to get KOH. It is my favorite catalyst.
http://www.cosmeticgrade.com/Potassi...ide-p-595.html
I built a Smacks Booster....I had tried 8-10 other designs before swallowing my pride and buildins Smack's design...His design outputs 1.2 LPM at 18 Amps...by far the best I have achieved.
I have KOH and SOH and compared them. SOH (Roebic Drain Cleaner) actually gives us the best gas production at the same current draw as KOH. It took 1 3/4 tsp of SOH per gallon of distilled water to get the 1.2 LPM vs KOH took nearly 3 tsp/gallon of distilled and gave me .9 LPM at the same current draw (18 Amps)
By the way,
if you are looking for KOH, it's used by taxidermists and tanners. I ordered mine from here:
http://www.braintan.com/mm5/merchant...Code=Materials
I'm very new to this so I can't speak to efficiently of potash or SH in HHO systems. But I do work with potash and SH daily, and my first thought if either got into the engine would be I'll just have a cleaner engine. Now if I was to setup a dip tank and soak the block .... then we're talking something else entirely.
And are you guys buying the potash and SH premixed? I only use the bead/flake not much diff between the two.
All the types of gasses, and of course the bits of water that make it into the engine have to take SOME kind of LONG TERM effect...I was just wondering what components will take the first hit, and how long of a period of time to check on things in there...Places I would think of right away would be the valve seals, gaskets, and the catalytic converter....But then again I am just bench testing with salt water till I get some KOH this week...can anyone point out other places I may need to monitor, and what time intervals I should check? I know Diesel may actually benifit from a bit of the water getting in there, but what about all the other flavors of gasses?
I would think regular PM is your best defense. I use potash & SH and mixed with a surfactant pressurized I make a de-greasing foam. I do this most every night. I can spray it on a wall and it will sit 30-45 minutes 6inches thick and eat/dissolve grease (I provide a service for restaurants). What I'm getting at is I've taken much the same mix and applied to my engine and undercarriage and let it sit for 30 minutes then rinse. No damage just clean engine.
Don't use glycol. Works well at first then foams up so gasses can't get out.
And may make you ill. It did me for a short time.
Don't use DMSO. It's not really a good catalyst without salt but I tried it for it's very high boiling point. It turned green and smelled like rotten eggs. It does this naturaly when organisms turn it to DMS. It has very low toxicity.
I'm thinking I'll need to wear my MSA mask when figuring this out :D
The best I have found is potassium hydroxide. I have been running it for a couple months, and it dosen't cause rust and gunk in my jar. Tried baking soda, in 2 days so much rust you can't see the electrodes. Sodium hydroxide is better, but still causes rust. It is SOOO much nicer to just add 1/2 oz distilled once or twice a week.
Another thing with baking soda I just found out, it degrades at higher than 140 degrees F. Sodium hydroxide (Lye) supposedly will take a temp of 300+.
I tried baking soda, but Lye works better in that:
1. cleaner plates, so less maintenance, and plates last longer
2. cleaner electrolyte, much much less of a problem here : (with baking soda, very murky after 4 days back and forth to work)
3. much better HHO production, IMPRESSIVE
4. less heat : Just got a pwm, but getting impressive production at only 5-6 amps!
I'm so pleased with the change, I think you will be too. You can get it at Lowes, and on tub will last a very long time.
As was mentioned elsewhere, always wear safety goggles with servicing. I keep a big bucket of water and a hose ready and close by when doing any work her for additional safety. Just be careful. Have a plan to deal with splashes and spills, and things will be good.
For the bucket of water, I'm going to start using water collected from my heat pump. Cheaper and less hassle than buying at the store.
GGTY!
:) Question about the lye electrolite??? How much do you put in to the gallon? I recently got a new generator and I certainly don't want to ruin it by using baking soda.
My first road test using an improved version of the Water4gas type of HOD Generator (two of them hocked up on parallel) and Sodium hydroxide (Lye) 5 ml in aprox. 1 quart distilled water:
1: First 15 miles noticeable increase of power in the engine. Amp reader was on 5 amp Temperature was below 140F.
2: Amp reader was on 10 for the next 15 miles the HOD Generators heated up to 200F before I could pull over and shut it down.
3: No visible damage to the HOD Generator so next day I power it up again but got not a single bubble! Tested the current right in the generator itself and got the power there. Changed the water and tried 1 ml Sodium hydroxide then went up from there to over 5 ml again but no bubble.
Conclusion / question: If the electricity is present, water with Sodium hydroxide is there but no electrolysis taking place then what is going on? The surface of the electrodes got coated? Did the chemical composition of the electrolyte change under the increased temperature? Are the agents of misinformation using Sodium Hydroxide knowing that it can render an HOD useless once it heats up? Anyone experienced similar results? Any suggestions?
Hi roller24
Do you have a current limiter on your H-generator? Sounds like your having thermal run-a-way problems. Go to youtube and put "zerofossilfuels" in the search engine. He has a pimer on PWM /current limiting. As winter gets here, we'll all probably have to add more elecrolyte to get the "cold H-generator" to put much HHO so a current limiter will be more and more required.
iv been useing bakeing soda, its been working for me but i dont have a fixed amount to use per liter or gallon. how much bakeing soda would create the most efficient mix ?
Don't use backing soda it creates either carbon monoxdie or carbon dioxide and brown sludge. Use KOH or NaOh
Many newer cars are using a recirculation setup that recirculates a good portion of the carbon-monoxide and carbon-dioxide exhaust into the intake (mixed with incoming air to dilute it). The CO/CO2 mixing with the incoming air may produce long term carbon build up but these are internal combustion engines, its going to happen anyways.
As for salt originally mentioned, I live by the ocean and there is a known reaction between dissimilar metals. Usually if lower grade Stainless steel (usually used for switch plates and cheaper screws/nails) is used in close proximity to salt water and/or aluminum, it will corrode faster and weaken considerably.
I use Sodium Acetate, i.e. baking soda + vinegar.
See
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=v6Teil...e=channel_page
Cheers,
h2gen
What is the best electrolyte to use? I'm building a torch not putting it in my car. So I just need the the best production of hho gas. I'v only used baking soda. not getting enough production. My torch is 38 plates 5" x 10" and i"ve put up to 100 amps to it. ishould be getting a huge flame and i'm not.:rolleyes:
Baking soda and vinegar just cancel each other out until you get a neutral solution. KOH and DISTILLED water works the best for me.
No gunk build up very little rust and good production. I am still working on a way to get better volume of gas. I am in the process of expanding my plate size and concentration, then will start on refining the e-lite to my needs.
I am not going to get into huge amperage systems.
i know lye can do some damage if it get on your skin is koh dangerous also
also i never seen koh in plumbing section do they have it at lowes or home depo
________
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