The BEST electrolyte mixture.

It has been demonstrated that a 27% KOH/Water electrolyte is the most efficient formula for making Hydroxy.

Wouldn't it be great if this became the standard by which all experimenters could compare results?

Here's how to make it:

Take a CLEAN vessel and add 730 ml of pure distilled water. (24.68 oz.)

(Don't treat your cell worse than your car battery.)


SLOWLY add 270 grams of KOH. (9.5 oz)

Stir with a CLEAN stirrer.

Be careful.

At that point you have the best mix for a cell.

Anything after that is because of your design and technique.

BoyntonStu

FWIW

Can you get us the details of how you determined 27% KOH is best?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BoyntonStu

It has been demonstrated that a 27% KOH/Water electrolyte is the most efficient formula for making Hydroxy.

Wouldn't it be great if this became the standard by which all experimenters could compare results?

Here's how to make it:

Take a CLEAN vessel and add 730 ml of pure distilled water. (24.68 oz.)

(Don't treat your cell worse than your car battery.)


SLOWLY add 270 grams of KOH. (9.5 oz)

Stir with a CLEAN stirrer.

Be careful.

At that point you have the best mix for a cell.

Anything after that is because of your design and technique.

BoyntonStu

FWIW

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Your line

SLOWLY add 270 grams of KOH. (9.5 oz)

maybe should have been

SLOWLY add 270 ml of KOH. (9.5 oz)

Someone should make that mixture and stick it in their freezer to see if it freezes! I would, but I have no KOH.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dennis13030

Your line

SLOWLY add 270 grams of KOH. (9.5 oz)

maybe should have been

SLOWLY add 270 ml of KOH. (9.5 oz)

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No, what I wrote is correct.

Remember, 730 ml of water is also 730 gm of water.

Since KOH comes as a crystal and its density is not 1 gm/cm^3, weighing it is the correct way to use it.

If you add 270 gm of KOH to 1,000 gm of water you will have 1,270 gm of a mixture.

The concentration of KOH will then be 270/1,270 or 21% and not 27%.

BoyntonStu

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BoyntonStu

No, what I wrote is correct.

Remember, 730 ml of water is also 730 gm of water.

Since KOH comes as a crystal and its density is not 1 gm/cm^3, weighing it is the correct way to use it.

If you add 270 gm of KOH to 1,000 gm of water you will have 1,270 gm of a mixture.

The concentration of KOH will then be 270/1,270 or 21% and not 27%.

BoyntonStu

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You're right about that, I changed my earlier post accordingly.

27% KOH sounds like a lot!

Where did the # of 27% come from? I ask as I have a chemical mixing plant down the road that specializes in high end industrial cleaning. I am able to have them precisely mix what ever % of KOH I want. Might be worth talking this over with their chemist to see what he thinks would be best.

I'd be willing to experiment, but would like more input from you guys here as to what you think a good start point would be and how high I should push it up. As I would have it professionally mixed, I would also have analysis information to go with this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dennis13030

27% KOH sounds like a lot!

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Tell that to NASA, Bob Boyce, and the other giants in Hydroxy.

Your grandmother may have used it with grease to make soap.

Biofuel guys use it with used veggie oil.

Look up biofuel.

BTW 2nd choice electrolyte is NaOH.



The mixture is not 27%.

I believe that it may be 30%. Not sure. Google, etc.

3rd and worst (like in do not use) choice is Sodium Bicarbonate (Baking Soda). You will have to figure that one out for ourself before you pollute the environment.

Watch Smack@ 4:39 / 8:16

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpRqoMGc-Do


BoyntonStu

i use NaOH. haven't found a KOH supplier yet.

my container takes 1L of water and i usually put 2 small coffe spoons of NaOH ( i guess maybe 10g ). more than that and i can not control temperature.
i also don't have the means to control V or Amps. the cell "takes what it whants".

so my question is, if i go for that NaOH concentration, and since the negative pole is the container itself, to control the temp, i should use a smaller positive plate ?

thanks

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mario brito

i use NaOH. haven't found a KOH supplier yet.

my container takes 1L of water and i usually put 2 small coffe spoons of NaOH ( i guess maybe 10g ). more than that and i can not control temperature.
i also don't have the means to control V or Amps. the cell "takes what it whants".

so my question is, if i go for that NaOH concentration, and since the negative pole is the container itself, to control the temp, i should use a smaller positive plate ?

thanks

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27% KOH is the best electrolyte to obtain the most Hydroxy by electrolysis.

If you are seeking the best, you know what to reach for.

Yes, you are correct, the smallest plate in the cell is the control plate.

For example, using tubes within tubes.

The smallest diameter tube controls the current.

The other tubes (beyond the area of the smallest tube), are not productive other than by contributing shape and ease of fabrication.


NASA uses 27% KOH.

To me, NASA is the standard.

Whatever concentration you use, measure it and you will then know where you are in relation to NASA.

BoyntonStu

BoyntonStu, what about current draw and heat? From what I have read in these forums more KOH will cause more current draw and also more heat.

I believe what BoyntonStu is saying is that the older experiments determined that 27% was the most efficient amount. Or in another words 27% may be the amount at which water conductivity is no longer increased. It maybe like trying to mix too much sugar in water. At some point the water can no longer dissolve the sugar.

I know that in some systems a 27% mixture may be too much, causing high amp draw and high heat. We need to build an adjustable dc current limiter to control the amperage to allow us to use the most efficient electrolyte mixture. One could attempt to make a cell that has plated that are adjustable. Move them further or closer together to control amp draw. It would be a main to make a production unit to do that , but a test unit should work well.

http://smacksboosters.110mb.com/Smack.pdf

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BoyntonStu

It has been demonstrated that a 27% KOH/Water electrolyte is the most efficient formula for making Hydroxy.

Wouldn't it be great if this became the standard by which all experimenters could compare results?


BoyntonStu

FWIW

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I'll agree with the 27% solution. Of course there is a 'however'.

Not to be critical, but you usually miss an important point on this forum. So far, all the information you've posted on this board is correct according to my own research. I believe you know this hho subject quite well. Here is the 'however' part. Most of the experiments performed by members here are an attempt to design and build a BOOSTER that fits the application they need, as in the vehicle they own. It is not practical for a 27% solution to be applied to all designs. Catalist in this application must be customized to regulate desired amp draw. A 'standard' cannot be used in most cases.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BoyntonStu

http://smacksboosters.110mb.com/Smack.pdf

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Which part of that page? The adjusting electrolyte section paragraph? My previous post in this thread were meant to keep the electrolyte saturation at 27% and adjusting the current into the cell with a limiter or by increasing or decreasing the plate spacing to control amp draw. I know I can control it by adding or taking away electrolyte or water. Like I said though, the intent was to keep the 27% mixture ratio.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stratous

I know that in some systems a 27% mixture may be too much, causing high amp draw and high heat. We need to build an adjustable dc current limiter to control the amperage to allow us to use the most efficient electrolyte mixture. One could attempt to make a cell that has plated that are adjustable. Move them further or closer together to control amp draw. It would be a main to make a production unit to do that , but a test unit should work well.

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But if we continue to add circutry, add variables, add complexity, add cost, to get a modest raise in mpg's, then hho is less of a useable option.

It's simple and easy to regulate current draw with the mixture. Call it 'user friendly'.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BoyntonStu

http://smacksboosters.110mb.com/Smack.pdf

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BoyntonStu,

I apologize if you've answered this in another thread already, but have you ever built or attempted to build and HHO electrolyzer? It's obvious that you're quite the book worm, but I'm very interested to know what lab experience you have and if you have any info or experience to share that way? I convinced your book smarts would be quite valuable in actual physical experimenting.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by timetowinarace

I'll agree with the 27% solution. Of course there is a 'however'.

Not to be critical, but you usually miss an important point on this forum. So far, all the information you've posted on this board is correct according to my own research. I believe you know this hho subject quite well. Here is the 'however' part. Most of the experiments performed by members here are an attempt to design and build a BOOSTER that fits the application they need, as in the vehicle they own. It is not practical for a 27% solution to be applied to all designs. Catalist in this application must be customized to regulate desired amp draw. A 'standard' cannot be used in most cases.

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I agree with you.

My point was the focus on the ability to repeat an experiment if one chooses to do so.

So let's agree on some rules that are PRACTICAL.

Use whatever you like but please report according to rules that we can agree on.

#1 Although KOH is the best. It is not readily available.
NaOH is available at Lowes.
Since NaOH is fairly close to KOH we can shift to KOH later.

>>>We agree to always use NaOH.<<<<

#2 We agree NEVER to use tap water.
We cannot know the differences.
Distilled water is cheap enough and readily available.

>>>We agree to always use distilled water<<

#3 We take a 2 liters of distilled water.
We buy and use a gm scale and we record the gm weight of NaOH added to the water.

When we report our experiments we state what the electrolyte mix is.

Can we all agree on these 3 rules?

BoyntonStu

Catalyst concentration will also depend on number of cells you connect in Series. From my experience, you can add more NaOH or KOH in series than running in Parallel. E.g. if I want to run 4 cells; two in Parallel and two in Series, I would not like to maintain two type of electrolyte; that will be maintenance headache.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tbhavsar

Catalyst concentration will also depend on number of cells you connect in Series. From my experience, you can add more NaOH or KOH in series than running in Parallel. E.g. if I want to run 4 cells; two in Parallel and two in Series, I would not like to maintain two type of electrolyte; that will be maintenance headache.

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Good point.

Just report that you used concentration x in your series cells and concentration y in the parallel.

If your cells leak, how would you know what they were to refill?

BoyntonStu

For reporting experiment results, I agree that the practical rules outlined above should be applied.

As for series cells needing a higher concentration, it's a matter of simple electronics. Each seperate cell that is added effectively adds resistance to the circut. Take two 100Ohm resisters and put them in series and measure the resistance and you get 200Ohms or two times the resistance as one. The same applies to electrolyser cells. Two cells will double the resistance and cut the current by half. At least in theory anyway. There are variables but doubling the consentration of the solution should half the resistance in two cells in series and keep the current draw the same as using one cell with the origanal solution. I doubt it would work accuratley but it should be ballpark.