JACKPOT! - Plumabob/Smith Model Works!

[Painless]

as a side note on these dodges.. I noticed in the service manual of my caravan (granted its an older one, and I really don't envy you guys) that dodge developed a sense of humor... they have sensors to monitor the sensors... and the computer is the last thing to know about it LOL ... I haven't looked at a service manual for either of you guys' vehicles but I'm willing to bet there's something else (besides the O2 sensors, and/or map/maf) that needs adjusting to make the computer lean out the mix... If either of you were to forward the schematic to me (via email) i'd be happy to look at it and offer what little advice I can.. what leads me to believe this, is the very nature of the 'OBDII trouble codes'.. listed with my van are the usual ones, lean mix, rich mix, too much/little egr flow, etc.. BUT there's other codes that tell you 'hey, i didn't even get a reading on this one' so there's monitors, watching the sensors, that monitor the actual sensors (i think)... you guys may have to forget everything you know about O2's, efie, map/maf, etc.. and look for the tree in the forest and start from scratch...

again, just my .02..

I think, from what I've seen, that HHOHoper and I are definitely dealing with a very stubborn ECU setup. I wish I could afford to at least get a scanguage and hook it up to my laptop so I can see what is going on.

If you're interested, I have a copy of the service manual for my Ram in PDF form, uploaded to my webserver.

http://www.hhoknowhow.info/~russ/images/503137-2006_Dodge_Ram_Truck_Workshop_Service_Repair_Manua l.pdf

[daddymikey1975]

I'll take a peek at it tonight when i have a bit more time and see what insight i can offer.

[HHOhoper]

HHOhoper

I found the thread where I read about flow control.
link:

http://www.fuel-saver.org/Forum/showthread.php?tid=2051

cjpeaceful (member there) has some good info halfway down the page.

I hope this helps everyone.

I did a search over there for "vacuum" and some GREAT topics came up just FYI.

mike

Hey Mike,

I only really saw where he mentioned about the ball valve, but I didn't see anything about controlling the amount of vacuum. Jaxom made a good point in Painless' thread that putting a ball valve in the line merely slows the vacuum rate, but doesn't control it (the vacuum will slowly get bigger and bigger on the generator) which is what I can't have. Is it in there and I just missed it or where you just referring to the ball valve?

[daddymikey1975]

no, i apologize, i was only referring to the ball valve... what you need is a 'vacuum regulator'.. so you can keep a constant 1 or 2 inHg regardless of engine vacuum... (or no MORE than the limit you set)

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/5Z763

will this work?

just poked around..

[HHOhoper]

Can it really be that simple?? How does this differ from a partially opened ball valve? Do you know? If this turns out to be the missing link, my children's children will praise the name of daddymikey1975.

[daddymikey1975]

Can it really be that simple?? How does this differ from a partially opened ball valve? Do you know? If this turns out to be the missing link, my children's children will praise the name of daddymikey1975.

a partially opened ball valve will still allow continued suction until it either blows the money shot (LMAO) or until your gen implodes lol..
a vacuum regulator should "vent" any excess vacuum or only allow a limit that you preset.. so it would reach a certain level of suction and maintain as opposed to continuously sucking..

although, as an afterthought, if your engine vacuum was exceeding the amount the regulator sets, wouldn't it cause a vacuum leak... hmm... painless or jaxom what are your thoughts on this as a possible solution ??

again, just poking around and offering my .02

[daddymikey1975]

If you're interested, I have a copy of the service manual for my Ram in PDF form, uploaded to my webserver.

http://www.hhoknowhow.info/~russ/images/503137-2006_Dodge_Ram_Truck_Workshop_Service_Repair_Manua l.pdf

Russ, I checked out the service manual as long as my wife would let me ignore everyone LOL...

your truck has some interesting things going on. I'm a remote start/accessory installer by trade and the dodges are the most challenging electrical systems to interface with for many reasons.

Looking at your service manual, what's going on here, is that the computer isn't merely making adjustments from some sensor inputs like most cars do. yours also monitors the PERFORMANCE of each of the sensor inputs as well as communications with each and every 'module' all in sweet (or bitter) harmony.

for example, there's a way the truck can monitor barometric pressure (who knows why) and it probably compares it to the readings from the MAP and can calculate how well the MAP is working and adjust accordingly. As another example the ECU monitors not only the Oxygen level in the exhaust, the heater circuit of the sensors, but the PERFORMANCE of the sensors by comparing their signal to other signals that the computer is reading as it's adjusting the fuel mixture....

when you put the O2 extenders on, the truck knew that the sensors were performing poorly, and opted to 'look the other way' and use the MAP and TPS and barometric pressure to guess at the proper A/F mixture (i'm speculating) and that's why you weren't able to realize any gains.

in order to get your ECU to work with you you may need dual EFIE's as well as some other mods all in conjunction to make it work (i think)

any one else have input on this ?? jaxom ??

mike

[Painless]

Russ, I checked out the service manual as long as my wife would let me ignore everyone LOL...

your truck has some interesting things going on. I'm a remote start/accessory installer by trade and the dodges are the most challenging electrical systems to interface with for many reasons.

Looking at your service manual, what's going on here, is that the computer isn't merely making adjustments from some sensor inputs like most cars do. yours also monitors the PERFORMANCE of each of the sensor inputs as well as communications with each and every 'module' all in sweet (or bitter) harmony.

for example, there's a way the truck can monitor barometric pressure (who knows why) and it probably compares it to the readings from the MAP and can calculate how well the MAP is working and adjust accordingly. As another example the ECU monitors not only the Oxygen level in the exhaust, the heater circuit of the sensors, but the PERFORMANCE of the sensors by comparing their signal to other signals that the computer is reading as it's adjusting the fuel mixture....

when you put the O2 extenders on, the truck knew that the sensors were performing poorly, and opted to 'look the other way' and use the MAP and TPS and barometric pressure to guess at the proper A/F mixture (i'm speculating) and that's why you weren't able to realize any gains.

in order to get your ECU to work with you you may need dual EFIE's as well as some other mods all in conjunction to make it work (i think)

any one else have input on this ?? jaxom ??

mike

Oh my gawd! Can't I just hit it with a hammer?

Its a good job I'm a big fan of the blues.

[HHOhoper]

You have got to be kidding me. Making the car GO wasn't good enough and they had to go and give the stupid thing a brain.
Painless, when you open the door and get in your truck, do you hear a smooth woman's voice over the speakers say, "good morning, Russ?"
Auto manufacturers should be ashamed of themselves. All of that ridiculous technology and cars aren't more than 25%-27% efficient?? Please!!!!

Russ and Jason, did you see Mike's suggestion on the vacuum regulator? After talking to Jason, (I'm just taking a stab here) I think this would be definition cause a vacuum leak if the regulator vents and let's air in to compensate for the vacuum. I just have to try and put as much vacuum on my system as I can possibly get away with and hope that the vent isn't so much that it negates the HHO benefit. What do you guys think?

[Painless]

HHOhoper,

I've been out making more mods and fine tuning before I take my truck anywhere today. I've installed a filter before the vacuum packed with screen door mesh to stop huge globs of water going through and I've tuned my ball valve to the point where flow is occuring but not drinking from my main bubbler or reservoir. Hopefully, this will be enough to prevent a sizable leak.

I'm currently responding on my blackberry from my 'office' *cough*, I'm going to grab some brekky next then take a ten minute run to the garbage dump (does the glamour ever stop?). If all is ok, I will have three 80 mile runs to work and back over today, thursday and friday to monitor results.

My CEL is still on with the cylinder 7 misfire code from my earlier efforts to strangle my engine and I'm wondering if I should leave it be or reset my ECU today first or not.