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Thread: How Do I Separate Hydrogen from Oxygen?

  1. #1
    volomike Guest

    How Do I Separate Hydrogen from Oxygen?

    Now that many of us are producing ignitable HHO, I thought it might be worth our while to figure out how to separate the Hydrogen from the Oxygen, and then feed in just a dim amount of Oxygen back into the mix. This produces HHO again, but a far more powerful HHO. Comprende?

    Anyone got an idea on how to do this efficiently, cheaply, and as safe as possible? Sure, nothing is ever safe, but as safe as we can be here.

    For instance, and I'm going out on a limb here with probably the wrong assumption, but if you use a reverse osmosis filter membrane in the top of a box, and you shoot HHO into it at the bottom, I'm guessing here that perhaps the hydrogen will force its way through the filter into the top of the box, while the oxygen would be held back somewhat. And why? Well, hydrogen wants to shoot upwards, but oxygen is heavier. Sure, some oxygen might bleed through the membrane, but hydrogen will force its way through much harder. So, this might, and again I'm going out on a limb here, produce a richer HHO above the Dupont reverse osmosis membrane, often called an RO membrane. If this is true, then perhaps this is viable because these membranes are not that expensive.

    [EDIT: After doing some research, I found I'm not too far off my rocker here with RO membranes. RO membranes fall under the category of "polymeric membranes" and this European Union paper, published by researchers in the Netherlands, reflects on how effective they are. In the end, they said that polymeric membranes will work, but they suffer from swelling (and bursting) under extreme pressure, and that the hydrogen separation worked but was somewhat weak. The paper said that ceramic membranes were the best filters of hydrogen out of HHO gas.]

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Back in the first half of the 20th century, they were using an asbestos membrane. Not sure you will be able to find one today though. Whatever you use would have to be transparent to electricity yet not allow the hydrogen to pass through.
    --
    Some days I get the sinking feeling that Orwell was an optimist!

  3. #3
    Smith03Jetta Guest
    I think that Oxygen/Hydrogen separation is so difficult that no one on this forum is willing to try it. I'm working on some ideas right now but I have not made any breakthroughs. I would like to build a hydrogen/oxygen separator cell that would double as a recombination fuel cell for creating electricity.

    Here's my idea.

    Build a system that would use solar power to separate water into Hydrogen and Oxygen (In different tanks). Put the separate gas cylinders in a motor vehicle. Recombine the Hydrogen/Oxygen in a fuel cell to produce electricity to power the vehicle.

    I've been thinking about converting an old motorcycle to electric. The main problem is the amount of time the battery array will run on a charge. Using lead acid batteries I can build a powerful motorcycle that will run for 25 minutes at highway speeds. Top Speed of around 100 mph. Using Lithium batteries I can power one for 50 minutes to an hour. I want to get around the battery "Glass Ceiling". One solution would be Hydrogen Fuel Cell.

  4. #4
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    I dont see a point in seperatng the gases when being used in engines.

    It not hard to do but efficeincy is not very good.

  5. #5
    volomike Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Roland Jacques View Post
    I dont see a point in seperatng the gases when being used in engines.

    It not hard to do but efficeincy is not very good.
    Yeah, that's another factor. I mean, if hydrogen is held back because it has to bleed through a filter, then that's a huge explosion risk if not managed properly.

    Maybe this isn't even worth trying. I mean, after all, I'm getting good results so far.

  6. #6
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    Just think, No oxygen, No map, No maf, No efie. I'm just guessing.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by hydrotinkerer View Post
    Just think, No oxygen, No map, No maf, No efie. I'm just guessing.

    Yeah, I can see were this sounds plausible, but all evidence ive seen shows this NOT to be the case.

    I’m not sure of the details why the O2 sensor senses extra O2, but it seems safe to say that it is not the less than 000.2% of O2 (compared to total air volume) that we are putting in the intake.

    Their is a Video with a guy pumping around 4 LPM of straight O2 into the exhaust it did not change the O2 sensor reading. It took more O2 than that to get it the O2 sensor to react. (I wish he would have put the O2 into the intake, and tested the sensor that way)

  8. #8
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    If the o2 was not as hot as the surrounding exhaust I would think the o2 sensor won't read it. Most o2 sensors don't even start reading/working until they reach a certain temp. That being said if the injected o2 was cool(out of a container) it won't recognize it was even there. Some manufacturer put aux. air pumps on the exhaust for emissions. Watching a monitor/scanner when that pump is on it makes definite changes to AFR. That pump is just pumping more air into the system.

  9. #9
    Smith03Jetta Guest
    INCREASE in O2 results in lower O2 Sensor Voltage
    INCREASE in O2 does not result in lower O2 Sensor Voltage when the O2 Sensor is not hot enough.

    An O2 sensor doesn't even work until it heats up. The voltmeter on that Youtube video was stuck at the max value, 9.x volts. That means that the O2 Sensor was not hot enough to be working.

    If he had revved up his engine to 3000 rpm in the test I would believe him. Adding Oxygen to the O2 sensor when the sensor is not hot enough to work can't possibly make a difference. It needs to be at running volts. Somewhere around 3 volts.

    Increase the exhaust temp until the Volts come down to around 3 volts. then introduce O2 and see what happens.

  10. #10
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    Seems like the small amount of O2 that is being added is on the same scale as a cold air intake bolt on (or maybe even less). In this case, separating the Hydrogen from the O2 would be in vein.

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