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Thread: How Do I Separate Hydrogen from Oxygen?

  1. #21
    Smith03Jetta Guest

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    I've been playing around with some different materials that will allow current to pass through but not gas bubbles. I have not yet identified a cheap and readily available material. Another challenge is trying to find a suitable separator material that will not turn into a gas producing surface.

    I'm currently focusing on Cellophane, Polymers, Mesh Screens and others.

    Simple Saran Wrap allowed electrical current to pass through for a short time but eventually stopped transmitting current. I'm pretty sure it was because of a buildup of gasses on the surface of the cellophane.

    I'm trying to design a dry cell with two plates. The Dry Cell will have two chambers separated by a conductive membrane. The membrane will separate the negative and positive plates but allow the large plate surfaces to be very close together.

  2. Default

    I wonder how a plain sheet of printer paper might work? Yes, it gets week when its wet, but you wont be moving it very much inside the electrolizer. You couldn't use NaOH with it as it would eat the paper, but maybe lemon juice or something as an electrolyte?
    --
    Some days I get the sinking feeling that Orwell was an optimist!

  3. #23
    sp1r0 Guest

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    If you go the way of tubes, mcmaster-carr has graphite tubes from .0625 down to .02" thicknesses. Graphite plates 1/8" thick. Too thick?

  4. #24
    JojoJaro Guest

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    Refresh my memory, Why do we want to separate H2 from o2 again? Is it because we want to store H2?

    If so, what is the best way to do it? Pump, tanks and circuitry recommendations. And how do you meter it back out so that you can feed it to your engine?


    I am thinking of a design that can do this, using easily available PVC pipe fittings and stainless steel rods. The cost is not much more than other designs, but I don't understand the rationale for doing so.

  5. #25
    Haywire Haywood Guest

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    I think I read at HHO-info that if you add pure H to your car instead of the H and O that you might not have to cheat your O sensors and can just run it without any computer mods.

    Easy test for this theory. Acquire a small cylinder of Hydrogen, adjust the valve so that it puts out 2/3 LPM (the amount of H you would get from a 1LPM generator), hook it up and go for a drive with one of those car computers attached. See if you get a CEL and watch the computer to see if your fuel system goes into default mode where it starts dumping more gas in.

    Ian
    Last edited by Haywire Haywood; 09-10-2008 at 08:49 AM.

  6. #26
    countryboy18 Guest

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    sounds like a good idea.

  7. #27
    bigapple Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haywire Haywood View Post
    I think I read at HHO-info that if you add pure H to your car instead of the H and O that you might not have to cheat your O sensors and can just run it without any computer mods.

    Easy test for this theory. Acquire a small cylinder of Hydrogen, adjust the valve so that it puts out 2/3 LPM (the amount of H you would get from a 1LPM generator), hook it up and go for a drive with one of those car computers attached. See if you get a CED and watch the computer to see if your fuel system goes into default mode where it starts dumping more gas in.

    Ian
    so who wants to be the guinea pig? thats the real question

  8. #28
    Haywire Haywood Guest

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    The real question is where does one acquire a cylinder of hydrogen and how much does it cost.

    Ian

  9. #29
    Smith03Jetta Guest

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    I'm going beyond the idea of adding HHO to an engine to boost fuel economy. I'm attempting to create Hydrogen gas and Oxygen gas separately for storage. I finally discovered a bi-polar Ion Exchange Membrane that I'm trying to get my hands on. This membrane will allow the transfer of Ions (Electrically charged particles) between electrodes in a water bath but it blocks gas bubbles. The membrane does not make any bubbles on it's own.

    The idea is to physically separate the pos and neg plates so you can isolate the hydrogen from the oxygen. Some people are doing this by moving the electrodes far apart from each other and putting them in separate {UP} tubes. That works but seriously diminishes the gas output because of the "Plate Gap". We know that a close plate gap is better.

    Some people have suggested putting a Stainless steel water separator between the plates but all that would do is create oxygen bubbles in the hydrogen side and hydrogen bubbles on the oxygen side of the cell. The material used for separating the two halves of the cell will need to conduct electricity but not produce bubbles of any kind. The only thing that i've found so far is an Ion Exchange membrane.

    There are three kinds. Cation Exchange Membrane, Anion Exchange Membrane and Bi-Polar Exchange Membrane.

    I'm wanting to build a "Dry Cell" with a gas outlet on both sides of the membrane. Two plates very close together with a single membrane between the two. This cell will need to be a flooded design using a bubbler as a fluid reservoir.

    This type of Dry Cell can be built in series to lower the overall voltage while increasing output.

    My first reason for wanting to create this type of cell is not to augment my car's gasoline consumption. I am working on a design for an electric motorcycle that is powered not by batteries but by the electricity created by recombining hydrogen and oxygen in a fuel cell. The only thing I'm not sure about is how much volume of gas/liquid hydrogen/oxygen I'll need to save on-board to ride any serious distance.

    If I store the hydrogen/oxygen in gas form I will have storage space issues. If I can store in liquid form I can definitely ride longer distances.

    Second reason for experimenting is to possibly take my home off the grid. Solar energy can be used to separate the hydrogen/oxygen for storage. It can be recombined at night for electricity production.

    I'm not knocking the benefits of HHO but I think I've reached the limits of how much benefit I can get from HHO in my modern fuel injected ECU controlled engines.
    Last edited by Smith03Jetta; 09-10-2008 at 12:57 PM.

  10. #30
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    This sounds like the perfect world. No co2 emmisions. No more acid rain and so on.... If I'm not mistaken, it takes o2 to make and create combustion. So we should know how amazingly explosive hho is. But my thought is...In a tank or container tightly sealed were there is no o2 confined, it won't explode when a spark is introduced it, will not explode internally only when re-leasted into an o2 atmoshere.

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