Water4gas amperage?

[scubasteve1043]

I built the water4gas generator design with 4 pieces of 316 wire wrapping the acrylic plates for the positive, and 2 pieces of 302 wire wrapping for the negative. I was wondering how many amps it should be drawing without overheating. I tried the electrolyte sold on ebay and put in enough to get about 8 amps from the grenerator and the next day I pulled the generator apart and it had melted the acylic and the wires just broke and fell apart. I put new water in with about 1 tsp of baking soda today and have it running at about 4.5 amps now and the water is a whole lot clearer now that it was with the other electrolyte.

[Farmercal]

I built the same device, and then modified it with more precise measurements but the results were the same. In a matter of minutes it melted right through the frame. My suggestion to you is to abandon the Water4Trash idea and build another cell that works.

I am about to build my second type of cell and then I will start on a third design. People have built many designs right here on this forum and basically told everyone how to duplicate their efforts. Pick one that looks good to you and start building. Good Luck.

[redneckgearhead34]

My first design was water4gas. I built one for me and one for my buddy Chris. We put KOH in his and it is falling apart and we put baking soda in mine and it seems to be holding up fairly well.

Though it seems we have one major problem. We dont think we are producing enough hydrogen to make a difference. We dont know exactly how much we are putting out(i am about to go chack it once I get off the computer) but I dont think it is anywhere near the 1lpm the other guys on the forum are getting.

I am about to build my second and third and possible even fourth design here in the next week or so. I would recommend looking at a "smack" cell alond with the one that Smith03Jetta built for his Touareg and Jetta. They both look like very decent designs. The "smack" would be the easiest to build but smiths seems to be the most efficient. Which I believe that is what we are looking for.

[Walt]

It is true you can raise your amperage and production with more elecrolyte. BUT with an increace in amps you also get an increace in BTUs. BTUs kill small plastic generators like the W4G. 1 BTU will raise 1 lb of water 1 degree. 1 Watt=3.4BTU watt=VXA After you do the math you will soon see the W4G will operate at a stable production rate of .1LPM without melting. That is about the equivilent of a cat fart. If you are commited to the W4G design then don't get too greedy on production because you will melt down, leak, short and blow fuses. Keep your electrolyte levels low and your amps should not go above 2.5 hot. Even at 2.5a (12 v) you will gain around 70 degrees per hour (not considering heat loss which is minimal in an engine compartment).

[scubasteve1043]

Well I guess from what you all say is I need to get rid of the wired electrode design and prob use plates instead. I would like to still use the mason jar for the housing since I have already got it all put together. Where can I find good instructions to make a generator with the plates instead, and where can I find the plates? I have tools to cut my own plates with so I just need a place to find a sheet of stainless steel.

[FuzzyTomCat]

Well I guess from what you all say is I need to get rid of the wired electrode design and prob use plates instead. I would like to still use the mason jar for the housing since I have already got it all put together. Where can I find good instructions to make a generator with the plates instead, and where can I find the plates? I have tools to cut my own plates with so I just need a place to find a sheet of stainless steel.

Hi scubasteve1043,

It's a really good idea to go to something other than Stainless Steel wire, a good place to go for S.S. plates is Lowes or Home Depot for some "Blank" single gang cover plates (304 S.S.) for $1.79 ea. These plates are 4 1/2" x 2 3/4" with a total of 24.75 sq.in surface area (+) positive and (-) plate will give you 49.5 sq.in. total. To get the same sq.in. of .035 dia. stainless steel wire is about 454" of wire ( over 37'-0" ).

Good Luck,
Fuzzy

[JonDoh]

In a matter of minutes it melted right through the frame. My suggestion to you is to abandon the Water4Trash idea and build another cell that works.

Water4Trash... LOL!!!

Yep! just wanted let to others know same thing happened to mine! MELTDOWN!!

[scubasteve1043]

I got some plates from home depot today, all they had were 302 stainless steel and lowes didn't have any ss so I got the 302. I made a new generator but could only use 5 plates b/c thats all that would fit in the mason jar, I put them in this order + nnn - . I'm put it in the jar that already had about 1 tsp of baking soda in it and was getting like 2.5 amps draw and then added about another 1/2 tsp of baking soda to get up to about 4.5 amps draw.

I didn't sand any of the plates or insulate the posts yet b/c I just wanted to do a quick setup to make sure it worked and I will take it apart and do it right tomorrow.

I'm thinking maybe I should trim down the outside of the plates so that I can fit a few more plates in the jar. I am still wondering if the check valve on top of the lid that water4gas uses takes place of a bubbler or if I need to add a bubbler to mine? I want to make sure that it is safe b/c I sure can't afford any other problems right now like my motor blowing up, lol.

One more thing, is there some kind of housing that I could use that would be about the same size as the mason jar but a lot deeper so that I could stack another set of plates to get higher hho output? I don't wanna do pvc b/c I wanna be able to see whats going on unless pvc is just the best way to go in this situation.

[Walt]

Check valves leak quickly in a corosive environment. Rip it off and install a bubbler. I have a hunch unless you add a few more cells in series and reduce your voltage you will still have a heat problem. 700 ML is not enough for the BTUS you will be adding.

[GOplayer]

For the past two months I did my fair share of experimentation with Water4Gas type of HOD Gen. as my first project, like so many of us out there. Yes, it is relatively cheap way to get started and yes there are much better solutions are out there. My contribution at this time is the enhanced version of the water4gas HOD Gen design that comes down to this:
Housing: I use General Electric’s Water Filtration system (Home Depot $18.75 in NH USA).
Lowes carries Whirlpool’s equivalent for $3 more but they have a metal inlet for fitting your plumbing and if I’d known it before, I’d use that but either ways I get good seal by using not only Teflon tapes but also cold well and my seal as good as it gets. Unlike my mason jars where 5 out of 6 HOD Gen’s I built had HHO leaks.
Coil: I have a fellow in NY who produces me this new custom sized Plexiglas and increased length of wires as a kit, so if you choose to build your own then contact him here: http://www.ignitingwater.com/
Also I no longer use bolts as it resulted in one of my HOD Gen exploded! There is no need to use bolts with this new design. I’ll have a video made up soon to show you since my lack some words in English to describe it simply. Just remember this: SS bolts in the Water4gas HOD Gen design is DANGEROUS!!!! You are risking explosion!
Heat: Since my experimentation now progressed to integrate my HOD Gen into one of my vehicles, a Chevy Van, I have plenty of space to work with, so I deal with the heat by installing a 4 feet baseboard and see what happens. Yes, it is a crude solution and yes the best way to deal with heat is not to create it in the first place. Some of you already progressed to that point, I did not. My goal is to find out if this “cheap water4gas design can be made work and if so, how? (Then I progress to plate designs). If the info I am reading on pulsating the electricity to the HOD Gen will lower my heat production, then I might able to apply that to this water4gas type HOD generators and see what happens. If not, then simply by cooling the water is one way of dealing with the problem. Until I manage to get a PWM that makes a difference, I also plan to experiment with using multiple HOD Gens and manipulate the power on / off of them to manage heat production.
I learned a great deal of wisdom about HHO production from this web site:
Waterfuel.t35.com

Conclusion: Mason jar is poor and dangerous way to go! Yes it can work but I wasted more money on it than it cost to do it better using 120 PSI pressure rated water filtration systems. Plumbing and electrode hookup is much better, the system is significantly more durable. Heat is an issue but possible to deal with it in theory. Ask me for my findings in about 2 weeks on forward from Sept. 10th 2008 and I am happy to share what I got with my new 6 HOD Gen. (Today the van is in the shop to have a 2nd vacuum line installed, this time directly right into the intake manifold.) The Generators are due to be assembled today when the coils arrive from NY. The first units worked well as far as seal / HHO leaks is concerned. I experienced good increase in engine performance but 15 miles down the road, the coils melted. Now I have a solution for the heating problem, eager to find out how it works.
An outstanding question I posted:
Basic electrical question:
The anode or the cathode should be bigger when SS wires are used in spiral configuration to make an electrolyzer (AKA: HOD GEN)?
My “user manual” for the HOD Gen kit I purchased called for the positive to be the thicker wire while the negative the thinner. Then an “expert” told me that I got it backwards. Since I am not an expert, perhaps someone out there could point me to a resource that could conclusively show me which wire should be the positive hock up and then I can figure out where to hock up the thinner wire to ;-)
Thanks Z